HTC Unlocks Bootloader For All of Its Devices(htcdev.com)
htcdev.com
HTC Unlocks Bootloader For All of Its Devices
http://htcdev.com/bootloader/
11 comments
There is this line as well:
"We continue to work on models launched prior to September 2011, please check back often for the status of older devices."
My guess is the newest devices have an updated bootloader that they CAN unlock easily. I am betting they may even be stymied by the security they put in place on older devices. This series of events makes sense to me:
Spring 2011 - announce we're going to allow unlocking
Summer 2011 - update bootloader to be easily unlockable
Sept 2011 - start releasing updated loader on devices
Dec 2011 - final certification that this is all going to work OK and release to the public
2012 - figure out how to get around our own security on older devices
"We continue to work on models launched prior to September 2011, please check back often for the status of older devices."
My guess is the newest devices have an updated bootloader that they CAN unlock easily. I am betting they may even be stymied by the security they put in place on older devices. This series of events makes sense to me:
Spring 2011 - announce we're going to allow unlocking
Summer 2011 - update bootloader to be easily unlockable
Sept 2011 - start releasing updated loader on devices
Dec 2011 - final certification that this is all going to work OK and release to the public
2012 - figure out how to get around our own security on older devices
> 2012 - figure out how to get around our own security via OTA update on older devices.
??? - Convince carriers to actually take that update
??? - Convince carriers to actually take that update
Quite possibly.
considering that the custom rom crowd has figured out how to get around the security already, i find it hard to believe that HTC can't do it.
I suspect the key difference might be that HTC doesn't want to release the following type of instructions: "Tap settings, Tap Applications, Tap Development, Enable USB Debugging, now install this software on your PC, connect your phone via USB, be sure to un-mount your SD card first... etc. etc." I think they would prefer to release a one shot install fix and that to my knowledge hasn't been figured out yet. In the end it may just not be worth the effort for them to do on older devices as well.
All devices launched September 2011 and forward. I agree that they are missing a lot of previous devices, but there are already tools out there to unlock the bootloader on those devices.
If I were to make a guess, I would say the September 2011 mark is all devices that are using the current bootloader locking method, and so they are just supporting that instead of going through and making other programs for all previous versions.
If I were to make a guess, I would say the September 2011 mark is all devices that are using the current bootloader locking method, and so they are just supporting that instead of going through and making other programs for all previous versions.
There are no simple unlock tools for some of the S-ON phones launched before September 2011 (with HBOOT 2.0). HBOOT can be downgraded[1], but it's quite complicated.
[1] http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1318919
[1] http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1318919
This is a canny business decision by HTC. The main problem with Android device manufacturers has been lack of continuing software support. Making an unlockable bootloader allows HTC to free itself from an long-term support commitment while simultaneously silencing the very critics that were pushing for that commitment in the first place.
I don't see the problem. The only people who really care about software updates (in the absence of show-stopping bugs) are those that are willing to install custom ROMs. We have a healthy compromise here that keeps both the carriers and the nerds happy.
I think we need to temper our expectations with respect to the mobile device industry. We might see smartphones as mini-computers, but the companies that make them do not, and neither does the vast majority of their target audience.
I think we need to temper our expectations with respect to the mobile device industry. We might see smartphones as mini-computers, but the companies that make them do not, and neither does the vast majority of their target audience.
> The only people who really care about software updates (in the absence of show-stopping bugs) are those that are willing to install custom ROMs.
I'm pretty sure developers care about users upgrading to the latest version. No one wants to be targeting ancient APIs.
I'm pretty sure developers care about users upgrading to the latest version. No one wants to be targeting ancient APIs.
Anyone installing apps on their phone will probably expect software updates. If their phone they bought a year ago won't work with the latest versions of their favorite Android Market games, due to requiring a newer version of Android, they'll notice.
I don't know that end users would end up noticing.
I certainly haven't (with the exception of trying to use a G1 after a Froyo device). When I got the Froyo to Gingerbread upgrade on my G2 there were many improvements, but nothing I noticed that affected third-party apps. Even many of my favorite apps that use Honeycomb features (e.g. Plume, Kindle, Google Music, Firefox, etc.) seamlessly support older devices.
Google has been pretty good about putting out compatibility libraries for major new APIs (e.g. Fragments) and there's a lot of support for checking the presence or absence of various features / APIs / etc. These days, there's even support in the Android Market for having different versions of the same app for different OS versions.
Supporting a range of OS versions is certainly work, but I'm not sure how much more work it is beyond supporting a wide variety of form factors, different hardware features, etc. In any case, the good developers seem to be able to handle it.
I certainly haven't (with the exception of trying to use a G1 after a Froyo device). When I got the Froyo to Gingerbread upgrade on my G2 there were many improvements, but nothing I noticed that affected third-party apps. Even many of my favorite apps that use Honeycomb features (e.g. Plume, Kindle, Google Music, Firefox, etc.) seamlessly support older devices.
Google has been pretty good about putting out compatibility libraries for major new APIs (e.g. Fragments) and there's a lot of support for checking the presence or absence of various features / APIs / etc. These days, there's even support in the Android Market for having different versions of the same app for different OS versions.
Supporting a range of OS versions is certainly work, but I'm not sure how much more work it is beyond supporting a wide variety of form factors, different hardware features, etc. In any case, the good developers seem to be able to handle it.
I'm not saying it's a problem. In fact, I think this is the best course of action that HTC could have taken. All I'm pointing out is that the motivation isn't as selfless as it might first appear. This move has a direct benefit for HTC, as well as for HTC's consumers.
[deleted]
Or it's just a fishy tactic to increase the number of deniable warranty claims by making "unlocking" officially available to non-technical users.
[deleted]
> HTC is committed to listening to users and delivering customer satisfaction [but] the behavior of your device might be altered including specific absorption rate (SAR) values.
Translation:
Look, you guys asked for this, so we're giving it to you, but it's probably going to fry your brain. Enjoy.
Translation:
Look, you guys asked for this, so we're giving it to you, but it's probably going to fry your brain. Enjoy.
They have to say that, in the event some idiot screws with their radio and actually does fry their brain out.
What do they have to say concerning sharpening the phone to a fine point and stabbing yourself with it? Or coating it in honey and choking while trying to swallow it? Or lighting it on fire for warmth but having it set your clothes on fire when you put it in your pocket?
The FCC doesn't really care if you can stab yourself with your phone. They do require that phones stay below a certain level of radiation output (which given root access, it's possible to muck with), thus a disclaimer is necessary to make it clear the user's the one screwing up the radio, not HTC's unlocker.
In a Common Law system such as the one used in the US, law is interpreted to the letter and if something is not mentioned in a contract then it's considered undefined, no matter whether it's reasonable. So even though we can argue that sharpening the phone and stabbing yourself is a foolish thing to do, the law system pretty much requires them to explicitly mention these things or they may be held liable in court. This is also the reason why American contracts are so fscking long compared to most European contracts which follow Civil Law.
I was giving up on Android, if HTC keeps this policy in the future, I'll be giving up only on other brands. What is the point of having a smartphone (pocket computer?), if you can't make it work like you want.
Try a Galaxy Nexus. You can easily unlock the bootloader on it and root it. And it doesn't come with all the junk that the other manufacturers install. Ice Cream Sandwich is amazing, too. The phone is really designed and built for geeks like us while still being easy to use.
> What is the point of having a smartphone (pocket computer?), if you can't make it work like you want?
Ask yourself the same thing about a car. Or a toaster.
The point for most people is to have it work as designed and not have to think about it.
Ask yourself the same thing about a car. Or a toaster.
The point for most people is to have it work as designed and not have to think about it.
Yet, like with cars, there exists a sizable community of people who want to put on bigger wheels/tires, a new turbo, a new stereo system, taller suspension, etc. A locked bootloader is the same as having a hood that can only be opened with the dealer's key.
I don't know a single person that wants to look under their hood any more (though living in greater NYC area, I realize this is not representative of most communities). When I was in high school (mid 80s), everyone did. But even the grease monkeys aren't interested any more.
It's kind of like late 80's ricers versus today's German cars. I myself auto-crossed a Honda CRXsi. Today I'm just as into performance, but have other things to do with my time. I can honestly say I have not ever seen the engine of my car which Car & Driver recently named the Best Handling Car in America. It's a Boxster, and ... there is no hood to open. I'm okay with that.
That "sizable community" is dwindling fast, as computing becomes an appliance technology. Your opinion is disproportionately represented here because HN is much more like the late night parking lot full of ricers in San Bernardino than it's like an arbitrary quarter mile of LA's I-10 rush hour traffic.
// Note: iphone-dev's redsn0w[1] has an untethered jailbreak for iOS 5.0.1 on everything but the iPhone 4s and iPad 2. And saurik's Cydia[2] is doing just fine, with plenty of souped up suspensions or new stereo systems if you want to get your hands dirty.
1. http://blog.iphone-dev.org/?0b08b320
2. http://cydia.saurik.com/
It's kind of like late 80's ricers versus today's German cars. I myself auto-crossed a Honda CRXsi. Today I'm just as into performance, but have other things to do with my time. I can honestly say I have not ever seen the engine of my car which Car & Driver recently named the Best Handling Car in America. It's a Boxster, and ... there is no hood to open. I'm okay with that.
That "sizable community" is dwindling fast, as computing becomes an appliance technology. Your opinion is disproportionately represented here because HN is much more like the late night parking lot full of ricers in San Bernardino than it's like an arbitrary quarter mile of LA's I-10 rush hour traffic.
// Note: iphone-dev's redsn0w[1] has an untethered jailbreak for iOS 5.0.1 on everything but the iPhone 4s and iPad 2. And saurik's Cydia[2] is doing just fine, with plenty of souped up suspensions or new stereo systems if you want to get your hands dirty.
1. http://blog.iphone-dev.org/?0b08b320
2. http://cydia.saurik.com/
Yes, in downstate New York, you might not find people with modified cars. You might find people with no cars. Upstate NY is a much different environment though. Outside of the largest city in the nation, you'll find modified cars everywhere, from new rims on a city-cruiser to jacked up mud bogging trucks.
Or lets put it this way: you buy a car that can only be worked on by the dealer and only runs on their proprietary fuel, even though your local mechanic/Speedway could do it much cheaper and much faster if it weren't for the locked hood. Brand new cars are getting notoriously harder and more expensive to maintain because of proprietary electronics which require dealer intervention when they break.
Your "note" is like saying "Yeah but I got around it by using a crowbar. Now I have to buy gas from some guy in his basement because Toyota would sue me if went to the dealership."
Or lets put it this way: you buy a car that can only be worked on by the dealer and only runs on their proprietary fuel, even though your local mechanic/Speedway could do it much cheaper and much faster if it weren't for the locked hood. Brand new cars are getting notoriously harder and more expensive to maintain because of proprietary electronics which require dealer intervention when they break.
Your "note" is like saying "Yeah but I got around it by using a crowbar. Now I have to buy gas from some guy in his basement because Toyota would sue me if went to the dealership."
> got around it by using a crowbar
Which, until HTC's note today, was the same crowbar needed for HTC Android phones sold under carrier contracts. The dealership (BestBuy, Verizon store, whatever) isn't going to unlock your phone's boot loader whether it's iOS or Android.
But since you want to further torture this analogy:
Changing your tires and rims and paint job is like changing your case or wallpaper. Jack up suspension, get an Otter Defender. Changing your OEM stereo is like changing your OEM headphones. Change the exhaust, change the ringtone. On the other hand, rooting your phone to void the warranty is like installing an aftermarket ECU to void the warranty.
While everyone "customizes" their cars and their phones, it's almost always superficial. Very few, even in upstate New York, want to void the warranty with aftermarket parts in the engine control electronics or drive train.
Before Fairfield County, CT, I lived in the Smokey Mountains between North Carolina, Georgia and Tennessee. I myself had a car on blocks. :-) And before that, for a decade, I lived in central Africa where trucks you couldn't swap parts on like something from Mad Max didn't last long. Point being, I'm familiar with the tradeoffs of DIY customization vs "just works" in a broad spectrum of cultures.
So I'll assure you, the kids in Africa now enabled to communicate through their Nokias and Ericssons and Huaweis[1] don't give a damn about "rooting" their phones, and neither do most Sunday mechanics in the Smokies. Does it send/receive SMS? Can it make calls? For the next generation, can it do email? Great. From Wall St to Kinshasa, people want everyday appliances to just do their jobs and not waste their time.
1. http://gizmodo.com/5634258/the-most-popular-phone-in-the-wor...
Which, until HTC's note today, was the same crowbar needed for HTC Android phones sold under carrier contracts. The dealership (BestBuy, Verizon store, whatever) isn't going to unlock your phone's boot loader whether it's iOS or Android.
But since you want to further torture this analogy:
Changing your tires and rims and paint job is like changing your case or wallpaper. Jack up suspension, get an Otter Defender. Changing your OEM stereo is like changing your OEM headphones. Change the exhaust, change the ringtone. On the other hand, rooting your phone to void the warranty is like installing an aftermarket ECU to void the warranty.
While everyone "customizes" their cars and their phones, it's almost always superficial. Very few, even in upstate New York, want to void the warranty with aftermarket parts in the engine control electronics or drive train.
Before Fairfield County, CT, I lived in the Smokey Mountains between North Carolina, Georgia and Tennessee. I myself had a car on blocks. :-) And before that, for a decade, I lived in central Africa where trucks you couldn't swap parts on like something from Mad Max didn't last long. Point being, I'm familiar with the tradeoffs of DIY customization vs "just works" in a broad spectrum of cultures.
So I'll assure you, the kids in Africa now enabled to communicate through their Nokias and Ericssons and Huaweis[1] don't give a damn about "rooting" their phones, and neither do most Sunday mechanics in the Smokies. Does it send/receive SMS? Can it make calls? For the next generation, can it do email? Great. From Wall St to Kinshasa, people want everyday appliances to just do their jobs and not waste their time.
1. http://gizmodo.com/5634258/the-most-popular-phone-in-the-wor...
From Wall St to Kinshasa, people want everyday appliances to just do their jobs and not waste their time.
Or I can buy an HTC HD2 which comes stock with Windows Mobile 6.5 (which does well enough on its own, all WM6 jokes aside it still works as a phone), but thanks to HTC's unlocked bootloader and a healthy aftermarket community, I could also install Android, MeeGo, Ubuntu, and Windows Phone 7. There's no reason why "moddable" and "functional" have to be exclusive categories. Actually a nice thing about WebOS devices is that they are almost completely unbrickable. If you mess up, HP gives you directions on how to boot from USB to reinstall everything. No reason why every other phone can't have that ability, too, to avoid warranty claims.
While I'm a big HTC fan, I do feel the need to point out that Sony Ericsson, in addition to their admirable position on ICS updates, also officially supports bootloader unlocking: http://unlockbootloader.sonyericsson.com/
Hopefully their customer and developer friendly policies will survive their absorption into Sony proper (though there are, sadly, too many reasons to be pessimistic on that front).
Hopefully their customer and developer friendly policies will survive their absorption into Sony proper (though there are, sadly, too many reasons to be pessimistic on that front).
Not "All" but the newest line-up devices.
All these devices should boot to a simple, standard, (extendable) FORTH bootloader.
By all means, bundle some pre-packaged code to do all manner of silly things, but also allow users to run whatever code they want on the devices. Why is this such a difficult concept to accept?
Nothing has changed since the 1980's in this regard. Consumers still are paying for the hardware, in this case the mobile device. They cannot manufacture the cheap electronics and encasings themselves.
However they can replace bootloaders and firmware with free alternatives. Some can can write this code themselves. And sometimes they want to share their efforts with other enthusiasts in the public domain. Nothing has changed since the 1980's - it's still their right to do so.
By all means, bundle some pre-packaged code to do all manner of silly things, but also allow users to run whatever code they want on the devices. Why is this such a difficult concept to accept?
Nothing has changed since the 1980's in this regard. Consumers still are paying for the hardware, in this case the mobile device. They cannot manufacture the cheap electronics and encasings themselves.
However they can replace bootloaders and firmware with free alternatives. Some can can write this code themselves. And sometimes they want to share their efforts with other enthusiasts in the public domain. Nothing has changed since the 1980's - it's still their right to do so.
Where's the news here? That page has existed for months now, is there something new I don't see?
Hey Motorola, get on board, damn it...
The reaction I heard to this is that it does not bring S-OFF to these devices. Is this true? I've never quite understood this aspect of HTC devices.
I think this is where they state that in the article.
"Please note that unlocking your bootloader does not mean that you will be able to unlock the SIM lock. Unlocking your SIM lock is at the discretion of your operator/carrier and is not part of the bootloader unlocking scope."
Is what they call SIM lock the same as S-OFF/S-ON? I always heard it called 'Security-ON/OFF'.
With S-ON you can still get temp root access (until you reboot) but can not run different ROMs as it prevents access to memory locations that need to be edited to do that.
To get S-OFF on my Evo Shift(Sprint), I had to downgrade it from Android 2.3 and use an old hack specifically because it was the only publicly known way to get S-OFF. There may be better way out now.
Unlocking the bootloader was easy. I could do that with temp root on 2.3. Getting S-OFF was the tricky part for me.
"Please note that unlocking your bootloader does not mean that you will be able to unlock the SIM lock. Unlocking your SIM lock is at the discretion of your operator/carrier and is not part of the bootloader unlocking scope."
Is what they call SIM lock the same as S-OFF/S-ON? I always heard it called 'Security-ON/OFF'.
With S-ON you can still get temp root access (until you reboot) but can not run different ROMs as it prevents access to memory locations that need to be edited to do that.
To get S-OFF on my Evo Shift(Sprint), I had to downgrade it from Android 2.3 and use an old hack specifically because it was the only publicly known way to get S-OFF. There may be better way out now.
Unlocking the bootloader was easy. I could do that with temp root on 2.3. Getting S-OFF was the tricky part for me.
Had a little time to dig around and found Sim Lock is different from s-off/on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIM_lock
It appears S-OFF/ON is also set by the operator/carrier and not the manufacturer.
I'd love to see a definitive source about S-OFF/ON and how it is implemented. Especially, for the Sprint/HTC combination.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIM_lock
It appears S-OFF/ON is also set by the operator/carrier and not the manufacturer.
I'd love to see a definitive source about S-OFF/ON and how it is implemented. Especially, for the Sprint/HTC combination.
S-Off gives you a permanent root with your rom. It also means you can change recoveries, hboot and all kinds of other system files and areas. It has nothing to do with Sim Lock or Unlock.
There is a FAQ question for this titled, "Why is my security still on (S-On) after I have unlocked my bootloader?":
http://htcdev.com/bootloader/faq
Basically, enough partitions are unlocked to allow custom ROMs, but not to modify the radio or modify requiring a certain carrier's SIM card (SIM lock).
Basically, enough partitions are unlocked to allow custom ROMs, but not to modify the radio or modify requiring a certain carrier's SIM card (SIM lock).
Yeah, the problem with this is that blocking /boot from being written to prevents custom kernels, which is kind of a big deal. :/
[deleted]
No offense, but the answers here were either wrong or incomplete so I decided to look it up. For those who want the gist of the situation:
An unlocked bootloader allows for the booting of kernels that are not signed by HTC (and probably jointly the carriers).
S-OFF disables write protection on the /system and /boot partitions. It is part of the NVRAM of the radio and is patched during HBOOT, which I believe is HTC specific.
sources: http://alpharev.nl/
An unlocked bootloader allows for the booting of kernels that are not signed by HTC (and probably jointly the carriers).
S-OFF disables write protection on the /system and /boot partitions. It is part of the NVRAM of the radio and is patched during HBOOT, which I believe is HTC specific.
sources: http://alpharev.nl/
No support for HTC Wildfire yet :(
Ordered a thunderbolt yesterday and it isn't one of the unlockable devices. Glad XDA exists.
Did you actually look at the supported devices list on htcdev.com? Or any of the other recent coverage like this:
http://lifehacker.com/5871759/htcs-official-bootloader-tool-...
Ironically, that article references an XDA report that the official unlock tool works on the Thunderbolt (shortly before HTC announced it).
http://lifehacker.com/5871759/htcs-official-bootloader-tool-...
Ironically, that article references an XDA report that the official unlock tool works on the Thunderbolt (shortly before HTC announced it).
This, so far, is BS.