The Real Pirates Of Silicon Valley?(techcrunch.com)
techcrunch.com
The Real Pirates Of Silicon Valley?
http://techcrunch.com/2011/11/10/the-real-pirates-of-silicon-valley/
11 comments
at least not in the slave kind as is offered here
This would be my fear, one only needs to look to the middle east in which Asian labor is imported and then is basically indentured once they get there, even the US bases take advantage of the captive "contractors". The fact that ages are probably a big factor with these endeavor the propensity for these to truly become slave ships beyond the reach of most laws is concerning to say the least.
This would be my fear, one only needs to look to the middle east in which Asian labor is imported and then is basically indentured once they get there, even the US bases take advantage of the captive "contractors". The fact that ages are probably a big factor with these endeavor the propensity for these to truly become slave ships beyond the reach of most laws is concerning to say the least.
He mentioned business visit (B-1) visa, which is much easier to get. Also, if you live in one of 35 countries that participate in Visa Waiver Program, you don't even need a visa for a short term visit. http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/types/types_1262.html#2
Sure, but I'm on a freaking boat! This hardly facilitates a quick coffee meet for an hour after lunch.
You we will sleep on the boat and commute into work.
Being from the UK you get 90 days in the US, then you need to do a visa run out of the country and can then come back. I think as long as you are being paid by an non US business immigration don't mind.
Perhaps instead of a trip to Mexico or Canada a night on the boat would suffice?
Being from the UK you get 90 days in the US, then you need to do a visa run out of the country and can then come back. I think as long as you are being paid by an non US business immigration don't mind.
Perhaps instead of a trip to Mexico or Canada a night on the boat would suffice?
Your residence and HQ is on a boat, but you can spend your days on mainland. If you're really into quick coffee meetings you can use one of those co-working spaces silicon valley has plenty of.
I think you have this completely backwards.
Imagine you're stuck in close quarters, day-in and day-out on a ship with 1,000 other entrepreneurial types. Why would you want to go to the mainland to network in coffee shops?
I understand you might want to get off the ship to hang out with non-tech folks, but you can do that right now in any country. Blueseed looks to me like a perpetual tech conference. The sheer physical density of creative talent is far beyond anything you could ever get on land.
Imagine you're stuck in close quarters, day-in and day-out on a ship with 1,000 other entrepreneurial types. Why would you want to go to the mainland to network in coffee shops?
I understand you might want to get off the ship to hang out with non-tech folks, but you can do that right now in any country. Blueseed looks to me like a perpetual tech conference. The sheer physical density of creative talent is far beyond anything you could ever get on land.
Given that each time you come in to the country I assume you'll have to go through immigration, you're probably right.
If it really were 1/2 hour trip it would be one thing, but there's no guarantees on that at all.
If it really were 1/2 hour trip it would be one thing, but there's no guarantees on that at all.
What about receiving visits from people on the mainland? Would it be easier?
Much. There are no visa requirements to enter the ship.
See http://blueseed.co/faq.html#visa for more details.
See http://blueseed.co/faq.html#visa for more details.
The sea platform was its own country called Sealand, with its own passports, currency, etc
That's a bit of a stretch. Sealand never really was any sort of internationally recognised country that seriously printed its own money or anything that serious.
That's a bit of a stretch. Sealand never really was any sort of internationally recognised country that seriously printed its own money or anything that serious.
As a foreigner outside of the US, I like this idea. There are many of us who are already strong earners but don't have anywhere near the million dollars required for an entrepreneur visa. In other words we probably can afford to sustain a nice ship. Getting a visa to visit the US is pretty easy, and staying on the US mainland and attending meetings, conferences, etc. are practical. We're just not allowed to work there.
Will this work ? As mentioned, its in international waters outside the jurisdiction of the United States. Any gangster or real pirates can just board their ship and wreak havoc ?
They'll need security staff to protect the ship then ?
They'll need security staff to protect the ship then ?
That's a commonly raised issue, largely addressed by looking at actual pirate activity. Piracy is a high-risk endeavor which is only undertaken when you have: a lot of potential victims, with very high value cargo who don't have the incentive to defend it heavily, and easy home bases.
That's why basically all piracy in the world happens around Somalia and around the Philippines. Cargo ships pass with lots of valuable cargo which is insured, and crews that that aren't going to lay down their lives to protect containers. Only very recently has piracy gotten bad enough that shipping companies have begun placing any sort of defense or deterrents on their ships. In Somalia the pirates returned to a mostly lawless state, and in south-east asia the hundreds of islands serve as good hiding places.
There aren't any pirates off the western coast of the United States, and none of the factors describe above are in place. Even if seasteads starting containing stuff that's actually very valuable, as you mention, resident would be more motivated to protect it, nor will pirates have anywhere convenient to run to.
So, are physical attacks a threat that should be considered and protected against? Yes. Is a seastead in that location with that purpose at risk of an attack by anyone but someone with some sort of ideological point? Not for a while.
That's why basically all piracy in the world happens around Somalia and around the Philippines. Cargo ships pass with lots of valuable cargo which is insured, and crews that that aren't going to lay down their lives to protect containers. Only very recently has piracy gotten bad enough that shipping companies have begun placing any sort of defense or deterrents on their ships. In Somalia the pirates returned to a mostly lawless state, and in south-east asia the hundreds of islands serve as good hiding places.
There aren't any pirates off the western coast of the United States, and none of the factors describe above are in place. Even if seasteads starting containing stuff that's actually very valuable, as you mention, resident would be more motivated to protect it, nor will pirates have anywhere convenient to run to.
So, are physical attacks a threat that should be considered and protected against? Yes. Is a seastead in that location with that purpose at risk of an attack by anyone but someone with some sort of ideological point? Not for a while.
I would have a more pressing concern. If this ship is outside US waters and jurisdiction, under whose law and authority would they operate?
What's stopping them from just stealing all your startup secrets? Forming rape squads? Ransoming you for your all of your family's worth?
How are disputes settled? Do they just throw people overboard?
Sure there are workable systems which would lead to some predictability in a culture/situation like this, but that doesn't and probably can't guarantee equitability and/or fairness. Sure the US government doesn't provide either equitability or fairness, but they do try their hardest to provide stability. You can count on the stupid shit that is going to go wrong to go wrong, and there is often recourse when someone does you wrong.
I don't see how you could guarantee things won't go tits up in these bizarre libertarian "paradises" a la bioshock (well, okay, minus the splicers).
What's stopping them from just stealing all your startup secrets? Forming rape squads? Ransoming you for your all of your family's worth?
How are disputes settled? Do they just throw people overboard?
Sure there are workable systems which would lead to some predictability in a culture/situation like this, but that doesn't and probably can't guarantee equitability and/or fairness. Sure the US government doesn't provide either equitability or fairness, but they do try their hardest to provide stability. You can count on the stupid shit that is going to go wrong to go wrong, and there is often recourse when someone does you wrong.
I don't see how you could guarantee things won't go tits up in these bizarre libertarian "paradises" a la bioshock (well, okay, minus the splicers).
tldr: They have to fly a flag, and follow the laws of whatever country's flag they are flying.
Under The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, they would be in a US Exclusive Economic Zone - between 12 and 200 nautical miles of the coast, so no fishing or mining without US permission. As it's not Territorial waters (up to 12 nautical miles), US law will not apply, but there are international laws against Piracy in the High Seas which do. Of course, that only protects you from people who come from another boat.
As for what happens on the boat, it's governed by the laws of the country that they choose to be registered under. Let's say Panama. But they still have to follow some legal system. Panama law is based on Spanish traditions, and is probably acceptable.
Under The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, they would be in a US Exclusive Economic Zone - between 12 and 200 nautical miles of the coast, so no fishing or mining without US permission. As it's not Territorial waters (up to 12 nautical miles), US law will not apply, but there are international laws against Piracy in the High Seas which do. Of course, that only protects you from people who come from another boat.
As for what happens on the boat, it's governed by the laws of the country that they choose to be registered under. Let's say Panama. But they still have to follow some legal system. Panama law is based on Spanish traditions, and is probably acceptable.
Although the US Coast Guard could probably handle pirate ships of the size which could plausibly operate in the waters off the California coast, the US Navy almost certainly has more than adequate assets to address even the most well equipped pirates from a standoff range (e.g. By only using in port assets from San Diego).
If a person has trouble getting a US work visa, wouldn't that person also have trouble freely travelling in and out of the USA?
In which case, how do they get to the seastead? It seems that they would need a ferry, but does that ferry port have passport facilities and act as an international port? And if you're on the seastead for a long period of time and US access required a visa, how do you now renew that visa seeing that you couldn't land in the US without it and there is no US Embassy on the seastead?
Or more plainly... what problem is this solving for whom? It doesn't seem to solve the problem for anyone who is unable to get into the USA without a visa.
In which case, how do they get to the seastead? It seems that they would need a ferry, but does that ferry port have passport facilities and act as an international port? And if you're on the seastead for a long period of time and US access required a visa, how do you now renew that visa seeing that you couldn't land in the US without it and there is no US Embassy on the seastead?
Or more plainly... what problem is this solving for whom? It doesn't seem to solve the problem for anyone who is unable to get into the USA without a visa.
I'm Norwegian, and live in the UK. I can travel to the US on the visa waiver program for up to 90 days at the time. At one point I worked for a US company for three years, and travelled into the US for meetings every 6-8 weeks. A couple of additional questions because of the huge number of stamps from SFO in short timeframe was all the hassle I ever got on entry.
Yet getting a work visa was still hard enough that we gave up trying.
Yet getting a work visa was still hard enough that we gave up trying.
That makes sense, thanks for sharing.
If a person has trouble getting a US work visa, wouldn't that person also have trouble freely travelling in and out of the USA?
No. Getting an immigrant visa for purposes of employment (E) is different than getting a temporary visa for purposes of a business visit (B-1), training (H-3), transit (C), or tourism (B-2). This is the same with most countries.
It's very easy to imagine a self-employed foreign entrepreneur who denied a visa to live in the US, but can easily make regular business trips to visit potential clients.
No. Getting an immigrant visa for purposes of employment (E) is different than getting a temporary visa for purposes of a business visit (B-1), training (H-3), transit (C), or tourism (B-2). This is the same with most countries.
It's very easy to imagine a self-employed foreign entrepreneur who denied a visa to live in the US, but can easily make regular business trips to visit potential clients.
Correct. This is also detailed at http://blueseed.co/faq.html#visa
By comparison, the US granted 3.8 million business visas in 2010, vs. only 117,000 H-1Bs. (Note that H-1B visas don't let you work for your own startup.)
By comparison, the US granted 3.8 million business visas in 2010, vs. only 117,000 H-1Bs. (Note that H-1B visas don't let you work for your own startup.)
For most countries transit visas are a lot easier to get than work visas. I imagine the US not too different.
Wow, awesome claim in the third graf:
"one can imagine how similar ships could provide low cost healthcare all around the world by operating out in the open waters free from the various laws that restrict the ability for inexpensive medical treatments through competitive pricing"
So, if I read correctly, this is asserting that medicine is so over-regulated an industry, in developed countries 'all around the world', and so anti-competitive, that the introduction of unregulated competitive for-profit hospital ships would lower prices (for market-rate users)? Despite the obviously higher costs of running a hospital on a ship, vs running it on land, from a strictly logistical standpoint?
I guess it's conceivable. I admit I do hear these rumours about U.S. medicine and malpractice insurance, and also that the U.S. spends more on healthcare than civilized nations while still getting lower quality of care (all rumours for which I have no citations). But the weird part there is that, according to those rumours, the countries that outperform the U.S. all have more regulation, not less, so that doesn't fit. Also, medical tourism is a real thing, so maybe the same market forces could be exploited on a hospital ship. But then again maybe not, because I'd guess that some of those market forces include doctors and lab techs who (relative to the U.S.) have really cheap living expenses.
Anyway. On the one hand, on the face of it, I find the idea that hospital ships could lower prices laughable. On the other hand, maybe I should keep an open mind.
"one can imagine how similar ships could provide low cost healthcare all around the world by operating out in the open waters free from the various laws that restrict the ability for inexpensive medical treatments through competitive pricing"
So, if I read correctly, this is asserting that medicine is so over-regulated an industry, in developed countries 'all around the world', and so anti-competitive, that the introduction of unregulated competitive for-profit hospital ships would lower prices (for market-rate users)? Despite the obviously higher costs of running a hospital on a ship, vs running it on land, from a strictly logistical standpoint?
I guess it's conceivable. I admit I do hear these rumours about U.S. medicine and malpractice insurance, and also that the U.S. spends more on healthcare than civilized nations while still getting lower quality of care (all rumours for which I have no citations). But the weird part there is that, according to those rumours, the countries that outperform the U.S. all have more regulation, not less, so that doesn't fit. Also, medical tourism is a real thing, so maybe the same market forces could be exploited on a hospital ship. But then again maybe not, because I'd guess that some of those market forces include doctors and lab techs who (relative to the U.S.) have really cheap living expenses.
Anyway. On the one hand, on the face of it, I find the idea that hospital ships could lower prices laughable. On the other hand, maybe I should keep an open mind.
I really wish the media included links to the FAQs for both Blueseed and Seasteading.
http://blueseed.co/faq.html
http://www.seasteading.org/about-seasteading/frequently-aske...
http://blueseed.co/faq.html
http://www.seasteading.org/about-seasteading/frequently-aske...
Charles Symoni (sp, I know) used to float the Intentional Programming team around on his yacht for weeks at a time. I think it was mainly to increase productivity though.
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Hopefully this can also act as a signal to the federal government about how costly the lack of immigration reform is. I certainly hope we see a real solution sooner rather than later.
There is no need for physical proximity, at least not in the slave kind as is offered here, the only reason I want to physically move to the US is the ability to get off my computer at any time and meet cool people for coffee or whatever.
Being stuck on a ship solves that problem no better than being on a different continent.