Ask HN: Is it okay to do part-time consulting while working a full-time job?
15 comments
<answer based on generic startup model>
>The consulting wouldn't affect my main job
The higher your level of responsibility, the less likely it is to be the case.
However, the problem I see is that even if you get the blessing to consult from the startup founders, it is likely to fall outside of the company culture - there is a high probability that the consulting will necessitate a more 9-5 mentality than is appropriate for a person with substantial stock options (assuming the stock options are substantial enough that it doesn't take a billion dollar valuation to allow you the option to take up full time investing).
In the end, the side work is just too likely to be seen as a lack of commitment in an environment where others have forgone salary for the sake of the enterprise.
In other words, even if consulting doesn't affect your work, there will always be a reasonable suspicion that it does.
>The consulting wouldn't affect my main job
The higher your level of responsibility, the less likely it is to be the case.
However, the problem I see is that even if you get the blessing to consult from the startup founders, it is likely to fall outside of the company culture - there is a high probability that the consulting will necessitate a more 9-5 mentality than is appropriate for a person with substantial stock options (assuming the stock options are substantial enough that it doesn't take a billion dollar valuation to allow you the option to take up full time investing).
In the end, the side work is just too likely to be seen as a lack of commitment in an environment where others have forgone salary for the sake of the enterprise.
In other words, even if consulting doesn't affect your work, there will always be a reasonable suspicion that it does.
Is this essentially "unofficially okay"
I would make it officially OK and inform my potential employer of the intent to do work outside of your agreement with them. Above board is always better. A word of advice though once you have an official OK in writing, don't talk about your other work at your job. You can read the famous story of Woz, the Apple 1 and HP for the reasoning why you should not. In short they said they where not interested, he built it and then they wanted a slice of the pie. It's better to get it in writing before any side projects and then never mention it again.
I would make it officially OK and inform my potential employer of the intent to do work outside of your agreement with them. Above board is always better. A word of advice though once you have an official OK in writing, don't talk about your other work at your job. You can read the famous story of Woz, the Apple 1 and HP for the reasoning why you should not. In short they said they where not interested, he built it and then they wanted a slice of the pie. It's better to get it in writing before any side projects and then never mention it again.
Thanks! If I understand correctly, I should get a one-time official OK in writing before I join, and then I use my own judgment when deciding to do some consulting (to make sure there's no conflicts of interest)? Or do I get an official OK in writing before every gig?
This is what my non-compete clause roughly says:
Duty not to compete: My work at the company requires my undivided attention. I will not, without the company's written consent, engage in any other business that directly competes with the company, uses any of the company's materials, or otherwise conflicts with the company's business interests.
This is what my non-compete clause roughly says:
Duty not to compete: My work at the company requires my undivided attention. I will not, without the company's written consent, engage in any other business that directly competes with the company, uses any of the company's materials, or otherwise conflicts with the company's business interests.
One time, and honor the non-compete I would use the written consent as the reason to get it in writing, just say you want to cover your bases up front and you would like it in writing that so long as the project does not engage in the "core" business that their is no conflict of interest. With IT type jobs almost everything can be construed as a conflict of interest because everyone has IT as a part of business that is why you want to explicitly call out the core business what ever it is. If it is travel you want to say travel if it is real estate you want to call out real estate and you want to try to constrain it down to the most focused segment that you can for example if they do commercial real estate rental you want to state long term, commercial real estate rental. Avoid vagaries.
Fundamentally, I don't see an issue with you doing outside consulting work, as long as it isn't in direct competition with your main employer. I would definitely never mix assets - e.g. don't use your main work computer for moonlighting work. Moonlighting has been around forever, in all trades, and won't go away.
Realistically, this is a very difficult task to pull off in our discipline. This was true for me anyway - I've tried it and it was short lived. It could be that I'm an "all or nothing" kind of guy and it is just difficult for me. Maybe other people don't suffer from this quirk. For me, I find it incredibly difficult to shift between simultaneous projects. It takes a certain amount of mental time just to get into productive mode. By the end of the day, I'm pretty exhausted from my main duties. What happens, then, is I ended up doing okay at one task, and terrible at the other, but didn't produce the kind of quality output I would want for either. Ultimately, I wasn't pleased with myself.
The startup is going to expect you to be 150% focused on their objectives. I don't think it will be an 8 to 5 gig. That's not the way these things work. It's a heck of a commitment, and if it were my startup, I would want you "fully engaged."
Just my 2cents.
Realistically, this is a very difficult task to pull off in our discipline. This was true for me anyway - I've tried it and it was short lived. It could be that I'm an "all or nothing" kind of guy and it is just difficult for me. Maybe other people don't suffer from this quirk. For me, I find it incredibly difficult to shift between simultaneous projects. It takes a certain amount of mental time just to get into productive mode. By the end of the day, I'm pretty exhausted from my main duties. What happens, then, is I ended up doing okay at one task, and terrible at the other, but didn't produce the kind of quality output I would want for either. Ultimately, I wasn't pleased with myself.
The startup is going to expect you to be 150% focused on their objectives. I don't think it will be an 8 to 5 gig. That's not the way these things work. It's a heck of a commitment, and if it were my startup, I would want you "fully engaged."
Just my 2cents.
I'm lucky in that the startup is fairly mature and encourages a good work balance, but yeah, I don't want it to be an 8 to 5 gig either. One of the reasons I want to join is that I think the vision is something I can dedicate myself to, which I feel less likely to want to do at Google.
Again, thanks for the advice, I really, really appreciate this and your other comment.
Again, thanks for the advice, I really, really appreciate this and your other comment.
Hey, if I were in your situation here is what I would do. Due to the financial needs of your family you should take the sure job with Google. You seem to be making plenty so I would suggest scaling back a bit (if over 100K is not enough), but there could be medical issues etc. that I do not know about so I will not judge.
When you accept the position with Google tell them (without going into detail) that you have this financial situation and you will spend time consulting with this other startup. If it doesn't interfere or compete with Google then I think you should be okay and honesty is just the best thing in this situation. Best of luck!
When you accept the position with Google tell them (without going into detail) that you have this financial situation and you will spend time consulting with this other startup. If it doesn't interfere or compete with Google then I think you should be okay and honesty is just the best thing in this situation. Best of luck!
Yeah, I've never been a big spender, and I've scaled back even more, so pretty much all my income goes to my parents.
Thanks for the advice! The open and honest route definitely sounds like the way to go.
Thanks for the advice! The open and honest route definitely sounds like the way to go.
I know it doesn't answer your question but take the job at Google. The odds are you'll be "richer" are much more in the long run. Plus, it solves your problems right now.
I would agree with this, unless your resume includes Bell Labs in the 70-80's, I would take the job at Google, later on it will bring serious consideration by startups that are further along in their path to profitability and better funded candidates.
To give some more context, the "startup" I'm considering isn't really so much a 5-10 person bootstrapped startup as it is a company like Dropbox, Square, Airbnb, etc.
So it's a fairly successful startup with really cool people and problems, it's well-funded, it's on a path to profitability, and it does pay a competitive base salary -- it's just not profitable right now and so doesn't offer the massive bonuses that Google does.
So it's a fairly successful startup with really cool people and problems, it's well-funded, it's on a path to profitability, and it does pay a competitive base salary -- it's just not profitable right now and so doesn't offer the massive bonuses that Google does.
One thing I would like to add, in addition to my earlier comment, is this: There is a time to gamble, and a time to play it safe. The best time to gamble is when you've got the money to lose, not when your mortgage/rent payment is on the line.
Even if the startup has a great chance of success, my decision would personally be to go to Google. This is with very limited info. However, what we are going through right now very much resembles what we went through during the dot.com era. If history repeats itself, then in a couple years our job choices won't be so vast. In that case, I would rather be with the company that has billions in the bank and can continue to employ me. This is a very personal choice, and one that I'm sure is causing you tremendous anxiety. I hope this helps.
Even if the startup has a great chance of success, my decision would personally be to go to Google. This is with very limited info. However, what we are going through right now very much resembles what we went through during the dot.com era. If history repeats itself, then in a couple years our job choices won't be so vast. In that case, I would rather be with the company that has billions in the bank and can continue to employ me. This is a very personal choice, and one that I'm sure is causing you tremendous anxiety. I hope this helps.
Thanks! I'm pretty young and haven't dealt much with these kinds of financial issues before, so the advice helps a lot.
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Given your dire financial situation, you should probably treat Google as a backup while negotiating hard with the startup. The Google package is worth ~$100k more per year than the startup's? How steady is freelancing for you? Could you make ~$100k a year at it while holding a full-time job and being a family man?
So I'm wondering if I could take the offer at the smaller company, and simply do a small amount of consulting (5-8 hours a week) on the side to help make up the difference. Is this normal/okay? What are the rules around this?
The consulting wouldn't affect my main job, and they would be in distinct areas of work. Is this essentially "unofficially okay" (do people do this all time and no one cares as long as you don't talk a lot about it publicy)? Is it not recommended at all? Or is it even pretty officially okay (so that I could, for instance, state on my website that I'm looking for part-time consulting, without worrying about consequences)?
Update to add: in my offer letter from the startup, the non-compete clause essentially says (paraphrasing)... Duty not to compete: My work at the company requires my undivided attention. I will not, without the company's written consent, engage in any other business that directly competes with the company, uses any of the company's materials, or otherwise conflicts with the company's business interests.