Ask HN: What would you like to see in a better job board?
8 comments
One problem with finding a job is the paradox of choice. The more choices you have, the harder it is to make a final decision. That's especially true of startups, where there are literally thousands of potential options and no practical way to evaluate them all.
What if you curated a weekly mail that features amazing jobs the way that Groupon features amazing deals? You'd have to select only the best, hacker-friendly companies. I think simply filtering through all the cruft would put you at a huge advantage to all the conventional job boards. In fact, even people who aren't actively looking for jobs might sign up, since they don't have to do any work, and there's always a possibility that their "dream job" may come along.
The other advantage of having a small number of featured jobs is that you avoid half of the two-sided market problem. You still have to get engineers to subscribe, and a small number of jobs to seed the list, but if you're a good hacker, you could probably start with your personal network for both.
What if you curated a weekly mail that features amazing jobs the way that Groupon features amazing deals? You'd have to select only the best, hacker-friendly companies. I think simply filtering through all the cruft would put you at a huge advantage to all the conventional job boards. In fact, even people who aren't actively looking for jobs might sign up, since they don't have to do any work, and there's always a possibility that their "dream job" may come along.
The other advantage of having a small number of featured jobs is that you avoid half of the two-sided market problem. You still have to get engineers to subscribe, and a small number of jobs to seed the list, but if you're a good hacker, you could probably start with your personal network for both.
Make me a good offer and I'll sell you CoderStack ;)
I didn't really appreciate it before building a job board but adding features for developers has practically zero upside, developers who are actively looking for jobs will use you anyway (assuming you have a base level of interesting jobs) and those not looking won't.
Basically for any feature you have to ask (1) will it result in more applications/candidate (2) will it attract more candidates to your site who would otherwise use another site.
But in the developer market the fundamental market problem is neither of these two, but rather that most good developers aren't in the job market. So to make a big difference you essentially have to attract developers who would otherwise not be looking for a job.
StackOverflow does this through it's stack exchange sites where they have a captive audience, CoderStack does this through a huge amount of advertising and marketing (we've bought roughly 30 million ad impressions this year - that's about 90 impressions for every developer in the UK).
You need to ask yourself what is it that you're going to do differently that will allow you to attract these developers.
If I was building something in this space from scratch I'd be much more inclined to go the route someone else suggested in this thread of the daily deal email route, because that is a feasible way of tackling the attracting passive developer problem.
I didn't really appreciate it before building a job board but adding features for developers has practically zero upside, developers who are actively looking for jobs will use you anyway (assuming you have a base level of interesting jobs) and those not looking won't.
Basically for any feature you have to ask (1) will it result in more applications/candidate (2) will it attract more candidates to your site who would otherwise use another site.
But in the developer market the fundamental market problem is neither of these two, but rather that most good developers aren't in the job market. So to make a big difference you essentially have to attract developers who would otherwise not be looking for a job.
StackOverflow does this through it's stack exchange sites where they have a captive audience, CoderStack does this through a huge amount of advertising and marketing (we've bought roughly 30 million ad impressions this year - that's about 90 impressions for every developer in the UK).
You need to ask yourself what is it that you're going to do differently that will allow you to attract these developers.
If I was building something in this space from scratch I'd be much more inclined to go the route someone else suggested in this thread of the daily deal email route, because that is a feasible way of tackling the attracting passive developer problem.
Passive developers are our target market and we have a few tricks up our sleeve in that regard!
Email me about CoderStack. I'm genuinely intrigued.
Email me about CoderStack. I'm genuinely intrigued.
Ratings and reviews by applicants (both successful and unsuccessful) on the quality and characteristics of the interview process.
Links to the Github, Stack Overflow, or HN accounts of the people we'd be working with. Targeting HN / Github / Stack Overflow types works both ways.
Links to the Github, Stack Overflow, or HN accounts of the people we'd be working with. Targeting HN / Github / Stack Overflow types works both ways.
Glad you mentioned this. Linkedin, Github, Stack & HN links are already incorporated :)
I like the review idea. Thanks!
I like the review idea. Thanks!
I'm not sure if this is specific to just a job board targeted at developers but even on a job aggregator like Indeed.com, I can't filter by some elements that I can see people interested in like:
- Benefits (401k matching, health, vision, dental, free lunch, daycare, etc.) - Equipment (what is provided? Ergonomic chairs, etc.)
I know some of this may seem like the wrong things to focus on when choosing a job but I personally know many folks who spend a significant % of their income on healthcare and child care and it should be considered as important as salary.
- Benefits (401k matching, health, vision, dental, free lunch, daycare, etc.) - Equipment (what is provided? Ergonomic chairs, etc.)
I know some of this may seem like the wrong things to focus on when choosing a job but I personally know many folks who spend a significant % of their income on healthcare and child care and it should be considered as important as salary.
Well, I built something like that: http://jobs.usethesource.com/
Simple entry procedure: you have to either be a high-karma or long-standing HN member, or beg me.
Simple entry procedure: you have to either be a high-karma or long-standing HN member, or beg me.
I was debating on pitching my own site, http://www.linkup.com/, but couldn't justify starting a top-level comment on it.
Thanks for starting the trend;-)
Thanks for starting the trend;-)
Clever. Any trouble associating the site with HN?
Good geographic search, by human language compability, visa compability, etc.
Could you elaborate? Most job boards have a generic 'enter City & search radius' option. What could be done to improve on that?
Some job boards have a geographic search, but they "stretch the radius" so as to return more listings.
So, I'd say that "good geographic search" == an honest one (that is, give me the results that are actually within the radius or area that I specified).
So, I'd say that "good geographic search" == an honest one (that is, give me the results that are actually within the radius or area that I specified).
Good geographic search is incredibly difficult. Systems could be 100% accurate if each job required an actual physical address (123 Modem Dr, Main St, 55555 for example.) With that, I can give you the lat/lon and do all the great circle geometry needed.
The problem is that cities have multiple names. For example in Minneapolis, Golden Valley is a suburb but people swap the names to suit their needs. So even though Golden Valley is a subset, the simple radius search can still be "honest" while appearing to stretch the radius. And don't even get my started on jobs that are 90% travel!
Would you say that requiring an actual physical address for each job on the site is feasible?
The problem is that cities have multiple names. For example in Minneapolis, Golden Valley is a suburb but people swap the names to suit their needs. So even though Golden Valley is a subset, the simple radius search can still be "honest" while appearing to stretch the radius. And don't even get my started on jobs that are 90% travel!
Would you say that requiring an actual physical address for each job on the site is feasible?
> Would you say that requiring an actual physical address for each job on the site is feasible?
If I'm searching for a job, I've usually got a max commuting time in mind. Some towns are closer, but take longer to drive to because there's no highway leading there, or no train. Some are very far, but the train goes there, and so I'd consider the commute.
So, when a job ad has an address, that's what I'm thinking about when I see it: commute time.
If I'm searching for a job, I've usually got a max commuting time in mind. Some towns are closer, but take longer to drive to because there's no highway leading there, or no train. Some are very far, but the train goes there, and so I'd consider the commute.
So, when a job ad has an address, that's what I'm thinking about when I see it: commute time.
I've made a polish job board for programmers. When it comes to the location we didn't just ask people where they live, but also - whether they're ready to relocate.
Another thing we asked - are they motivated by pay, or can they take a job in a startup with minimal pay. Also - whether they'd consider telecommuting.
By the way - check out Codility - they're Seedcamp winners, and they handle programmer testing. You might be interested in cooperation with them perhaps somewhere along the way.
Another thing we asked - are they motivated by pay, or can they take a job in a startup with minimal pay. Also - whether they'd consider telecommuting.
By the way - check out Codility - they're Seedcamp winners, and they handle programmer testing. You might be interested in cooperation with them perhaps somewhere along the way.
Example: I live in the EU. I speak N languages. I want a job in any country that speaks one of those languages, since job visas are easy in the EU.
Example: I live in X. It's near country Y, but only the southern parts of Y. I'd like a job in country Y, since salaries are higher there, but not in country X.
Example: I live in X. It's near country Y, but only the southern parts of Y. I'd like a job in country Y, since salaries are higher there, but not in country X.
A big problem is most jobs say "competitive salary" without specifying what that means, and only after a few phone calls and maybe a full interview you find out it's significantly less than average pay.
It would be nice if a job board could filter out these low paying jobs that nobody wants.
It would be nice if a job board could filter out these low paying jobs that nobody wants.
* Job boards are by and large rubbish and full of recruiters raping the database.
* This job board has zero recruiters and is aimed exclusively at Developers.
We are in the process of developing a board with the aim of targeting HN types, Github types, Stack Overflow types, you get the gist. On the other side of the fence we are targeting companies with legitimately challenging Developer roles in interesting organisations ranging from start-ups to large corporates. Our methods on the client side are relatively unique but what we would love to know is what you feel would make a job board better from a candidate perspective.
The product is in Alpha at the moment and not live yet but we are really keen to find out if there are blatantly obvious features that we simply haven't considered.
So, what would do you want to see in a job board?