Uvalde Police Went in for Their Own Kids During Shooting(mediaite.com)
mediaite.com
Uvalde Police Went in for Their Own Kids During Shooting
https://www.mediaite.com/news/watch-texas-police-spox-on-live-tv-confirmed-cops-went-in-for-their-own-kids-during-uvalde-shooting/
2 comments
How do you reform this?
You don't. It's human nature.
Instead you enact one of the many reforms that successfully prevent frequent school shootings in every other country.
Instead you enact one of the many reforms that successfully prevent frequent school shootings in every other country.
This is not human nature, this is criminal behavior:
https://twitter.com/RealSpikeCohen/status/152967872671538790...
Heavily armed police set up a barrier and let the shooter run wild for nearly an hour. Parents screamed and begged for them to intervene and they refused. When parents tried to push their way past, the police stopped them. You can see them pinning one father to the ground in that video, which is frankly the most upsetting thing I have ever seen. But everyone should watch it. It's important to understand just how indifferent police are to the citizens of this country. They have no legal obligation to protect anyone, but this goes even further than that. There are reports the police called on the children to yell if they needed help. When at least one child yelled "help", they did nothing, and the shooter was able to locate that kid and murder them.
These cops should be tried for aiding and abetting the mass slaughter of children, but I would be surprised if they got so much as a temporary paid suspension.
https://twitter.com/RealSpikeCohen/status/152967872671538790...
Heavily armed police set up a barrier and let the shooter run wild for nearly an hour. Parents screamed and begged for them to intervene and they refused. When parents tried to push their way past, the police stopped them. You can see them pinning one father to the ground in that video, which is frankly the most upsetting thing I have ever seen. But everyone should watch it. It's important to understand just how indifferent police are to the citizens of this country. They have no legal obligation to protect anyone, but this goes even further than that. There are reports the police called on the children to yell if they needed help. When at least one child yelled "help", they did nothing, and the shooter was able to locate that kid and murder them.
These cops should be tried for aiding and abetting the mass slaughter of children, but I would be surprised if they got so much as a temporary paid suspension.
Every single police officer involved should be charged and tried for felony homicide as accessories of the shooter. And if the courts don't punish them, the people should.
Still all unverifiable, but what seems likely if you put aside your breakdown as monstrous and look for a rational explanation and relate to police procedure
The shooter makes it into the school under pursuit and enters a classroom with two adjoining classes.
Officers are reported as shot in the process.
At that point, there is an armed gunmen in a classroom barricaded in.
It's now a hostage situation.
The rest of the school is occupied by police and evacuation/threat plans are being followed.
Storming a classroom filled with hostages is not procedure.
Parents and others running into the school when they already know where the shooter is and what the situation does not help anyone.
Although the timeline is 90 minutes or so from entry until he was neutralized that doesn't mean he didn't just shoot everyone in the first minutes.
The idea that they just gave up or were all cowards is a bit irrational.
The shooter makes it into the school under pursuit and enters a classroom with two adjoining classes.
Officers are reported as shot in the process.
At that point, there is an armed gunmen in a classroom barricaded in.
It's now a hostage situation.
The rest of the school is occupied by police and evacuation/threat plans are being followed.
Storming a classroom filled with hostages is not procedure.
Parents and others running into the school when they already know where the shooter is and what the situation does not help anyone.
Although the timeline is 90 minutes or so from entry until he was neutralized that doesn't mean he didn't just shoot everyone in the first minutes.
The idea that they just gave up or were all cowards is a bit irrational.
> what seems likely if you put aside your breakdown as monstrous and look for a rational explanation and relate to police procedure
What does "police procedure" have to do with individual officers going in to save their own children? Do you actually believe this to be the procedure anywhere?
> Although the timeline is 90 minutes or so from entry until he was neutralized that doesn't mean he didn't just shoot everyone in the first minutes.
How could the police possibly have known that all the children in the barricaded classroom were already killed? What if some could have been saved if they hadn't been left shot and bleeding for 90 minutes?
> Storming a classroom filled with hostages is not procedure.
You can't have it both ways. If the kids were killed immediately then there were no hostages to worry about.
> The idea that they just gave up or were all cowards is a bit irrational.
By this point we've all seen pictures of multiple police officers with bulletproof vests and AR-15 style weapons waiting around outside doing nothing -- other than holding back parents who wanted nothing more than to do for their children what the cops did for their own. If this isn't cowardice, what is?
> Officers are reported as shot in the process.
This is the entire story. A couple cops got shot and the rest were understandably frightened. So rather than risk their lives going after the shooter, they rescued their own kids and literally left the rest of them to die.
What does "police procedure" have to do with individual officers going in to save their own children? Do you actually believe this to be the procedure anywhere?
> Although the timeline is 90 minutes or so from entry until he was neutralized that doesn't mean he didn't just shoot everyone in the first minutes.
How could the police possibly have known that all the children in the barricaded classroom were already killed? What if some could have been saved if they hadn't been left shot and bleeding for 90 minutes?
> Storming a classroom filled with hostages is not procedure.
You can't have it both ways. If the kids were killed immediately then there were no hostages to worry about.
> The idea that they just gave up or were all cowards is a bit irrational.
By this point we've all seen pictures of multiple police officers with bulletproof vests and AR-15 style weapons waiting around outside doing nothing -- other than holding back parents who wanted nothing more than to do for their children what the cops did for their own. If this isn't cowardice, what is?
> Officers are reported as shot in the process.
This is the entire story. A couple cops got shot and the rest were understandably frightened. So rather than risk their lives going after the shooter, they rescued their own kids and literally left the rest of them to die.
No one saved any children from the barricaded/defended classroom, no children not in the barricaded/defended classroom were shot after the gunman entered.
If they entered the school and found their own children, it was not from within that room.
"Have it both ways"
Merely pointing out an existing unknown, they may have cctv and know what was happening in the room. It's the part that concerns me the most, did they allow a crazed gunmen to slowly mow down children over 90 minutes?
My expectations is that did not occur but is a much larger concern than your whimpers about whether human beings acted parental within the course of their jobs. None had the opportunity to enter that room, the only one that mattered.
Parkland had a coward cop, I'd be very quick to call out more should they exist, we don't know yet, but from what we do know your suppositions do not hold water.
If they entered the school and found their own children, it was not from within that room.
"Have it both ways"
Merely pointing out an existing unknown, they may have cctv and know what was happening in the room. It's the part that concerns me the most, did they allow a crazed gunmen to slowly mow down children over 90 minutes?
My expectations is that did not occur but is a much larger concern than your whimpers about whether human beings acted parental within the course of their jobs. None had the opportunity to enter that room, the only one that mattered.
Parkland had a coward cop, I'd be very quick to call out more should they exist, we don't know yet, but from what we do know your suppositions do not hold water.
That all could be a complete cover up and the cowards sat outside, but we certainly don't know that.
It does seem like the absolute Rambo who busted in and ended it did it while off-duty and perhaps outside of the local PD's control.
It also seems like local PD got at least one child killed through inaction, which should be enough to tar and feather all of them.
But it will be quite awhile before trustworthy details come out.
It does seem like the absolute Rambo who busted in and ended it did it while off-duty and perhaps outside of the local PD's control.
It also seems like local PD got at least one child killed through inaction, which should be enough to tar and feather all of them.
But it will be quite awhile before trustworthy details come out.
If all of that is true, it's still human nature. Cowardice, bad decisions, and cruelty are not uncommon police behaviors, especially. We can't reform it away because you can't train people to reliably put themselves in danger and make selfless decisions. Even the military can't reliably do that.
This was an absolutely insane, extreme situation that should never happen so that we never find out whether police are heroes or not. And it doesn't need to keep happening because we know how to prevent it.
This was an absolutely insane, extreme situation that should never happen so that we never find out whether police are heroes or not. And it doesn't need to keep happening because we know how to prevent it.
That's crazy. I'm speechless. What a fucked up situation.
Grew up in Texas but happily raising my son in Germany for many reasons, only one of which is that after the Erfurt high school massacre in 2002, the German parliament changed the gun ownership laws to ban ownership for under-21s, and to require under-25s to undergo a psych eval. Additionally, you have to either have passed a non-trivial hunting license exam (involving face-to-face classes) or be a member of a shooting club to get a firearms ownership permit, so there's some forced contact with other people who have the chance to point out that you might not be someone who should be trusted with firearm ownership.
Further major tragedies have happened, both directly with guns (Winnenden, 2009; Munich, 2016) and indirect (Berlin Christmas market attack with lorry, the theft of which was enabled by a murder with a handgun), but are just so much rarer, along with far rarer smaller scale tragedies - I've never heard of a small child playing with a gun and shooting themselves or a sibling in the nearly two decades I've lived here.
Speaking of which, that's going to be an awkward conversation with my dad and brother before bringing my kid to visit his other home country; I know that my dad kept a loaded handgun in his nightstand as of a few years ago due to very overblown fears of a home invasion.
Further major tragedies have happened, both directly with guns (Winnenden, 2009; Munich, 2016) and indirect (Berlin Christmas market attack with lorry, the theft of which was enabled by a murder with a handgun), but are just so much rarer, along with far rarer smaller scale tragedies - I've never heard of a small child playing with a gun and shooting themselves or a sibling in the nearly two decades I've lived here.
Speaking of which, that's going to be an awkward conversation with my dad and brother before bringing my kid to visit his other home country; I know that my dad kept a loaded handgun in his nightstand as of a few years ago due to very overblown fears of a home invasion.
> my dad kept a loaded handgun in his nightstand as of a few years ago due to very overblown fears of a home invasion.
As you might guess, the statistics do not support his decision:
"Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9715182/
As you might guess, the statistics do not support his decision:
"Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9715182/
> fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt
Well good thing I'm an individual adult and, after assessing my lifestyle and level of fire-arm responsibility, feel confident that I have control over these scenarios (not) playing out. I don't have any control over someone breaking into my house at night.
Well good thing I'm an individual adult and, after assessing my lifestyle and level of fire-arm responsibility, feel confident that I have control over these scenarios (not) playing out. I don't have any control over someone breaking into my house at night.
I see what you're saying (and the statistic has other problems, for example not measuring break-ins that were unsuccessful or not attempted because of the gun) but not everyone may be as responsible as you.
So, it can still be a net benefit to society to pass a law which reduces fatal accidents but increases break-ins. Also, I hope that you would sell your gun if you found yourself suffering from some symptoms of mental illness, or if you had children in the house. No one ever thinks that they will be the careless gun owner whose kid finds their gun, or the drunk gun owner who threatens their spouse.
So, it can still be a net benefit to society to pass a law which reduces fatal accidents but increases break-ins. Also, I hope that you would sell your gun if you found yourself suffering from some symptoms of mental illness, or if you had children in the house. No one ever thinks that they will be the careless gun owner whose kid finds their gun, or the drunk gun owner who threatens their spouse.
The Winnenden massacre was committed by a teenage boy whose father had a large collection of firearms that were carefully locked up... except for his automatic Beretta pistol.
This is one of those points on which I have realized that in many respects, my dad and I do not share a worldview, and live in such different worlds.
Yes, I knew this. I have not bothered bringing it up with my dad, but may end up doing so in the course of making it clear that he can either have unsecured firearms or his grandson in his house and truck, but not both.
Yes, I knew this. I have not bothered bringing it up with my dad, but may end up doing so in the course of making it clear that he can either have unsecured firearms or his grandson in his house and truck, but not both.
The changes Germany made heavily made me think of the "well armed and regulated militia" mentioned in the US' 2nd amendment.
One cannot say something is regulated without admitting fault and adjusting when needed until the issue appears less and less.
One cannot say something is regulated without admitting fault and adjusting when needed until the issue appears less and less.
But the right to keep and bear arms applies to the people rather than the "regulated" militia.
I happen to think that Germany has about the right balance of encouraging hunting that's beneficial to the environment and allowing traditional gunsmithing, while prioritizing the right of the vast majority of Germans who have no desire to be involved with firearms to live in peace.
>Instead you enact one of the many reforms that successfully prevent frequent school shootings in every other country.
Something tells me that if Texas governor Greg Abbott, Ted Cruz and other Republican luminaries of the Lone Star state attend the NRA meeting later this week, that won't be suggested. Apparently the problem isn't guns, because the problem is never guns (certainly not around gun lobbyists,) it's that buildings have too many exits.
Something tells me that if Texas governor Greg Abbott, Ted Cruz and other Republican luminaries of the Lone Star state attend the NRA meeting later this week, that won't be suggested. Apparently the problem isn't guns, because the problem is never guns (certainly not around gun lobbyists,) it's that buildings have too many exits.
Criminal sentences for the cops involved. But that's a pipe dream. Cops love nothing more than closing ranks to protect their own, no matter how dirty.
USSC ruled cops don't have to protect people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia
Yeah, I know about that ruling. It’s morally reprehensible and I think it should be struck down. That or we need to strip the vast majority of the powers that the police have.
Thoughts and prayers, apparently.
A quick moral rule of thumb I use:
"What would I expect to do if I found myself in this situation"
The police leadership won't give the order to storm the building. My own kids are trapped in the building. I think I would reasonably break ranks and try to rescue my kids. I'd like to think I'd try and rescue some other kids too, but I may be bullshitting myself there.
Anyway, I don't think the cops who went in for their own kids are evil. Seems very understandable.
"What would I expect to do if I found myself in this situation"
The police leadership won't give the order to storm the building. My own kids are trapped in the building. I think I would reasonably break ranks and try to rescue my kids. I'd like to think I'd try and rescue some other kids too, but I may be bullshitting myself there.
Anyway, I don't think the cops who went in for their own kids are evil. Seems very understandable.