Putin and Russia meet the textbook definition of fascism(theconversation.com)
theconversation.com
Putin and Russia meet the textbook definition of fascism
https://theconversation.com/yes-putin-and-russia-are-fascist-a-political-scientist-shows-how-they-meet-the-textbook-definition-179063
6 comments
Well, Russia definitely fits the definition of expansionist. You don't even have to qualify it with (internally). I don't know if they fit the definition of "ultranationalism", but they're pretty nationalist, at least at the moment.
> Russia definitely fits the definition of expansionist.
Well, it depends on your definition. It seems pretty well agreed among Kremlin/Putinologists that they aren't trying to relocate Russia's borders, but they are trying to "expand" Russia's political and economic influence.
Well, it depends on your definition. It seems pretty well agreed among Kremlin/Putinologists that they aren't trying to relocate Russia's borders, but they are trying to "expand" Russia's political and economic influence.
As a binational, I am always amazed by the nationalism in the USA. I'm not even talking about "ultras" like many far-right groups, just "normal decent people".
An US flag on almost every house, the pledge of allegiance at school, the belief into the American exceptional destiny, the belief to be the best country in the world...
I lived in Brazil for 5 years and they are very nationalist as well. Many young Chinese as well.
Patriotism is one thing, nationalism another. In Europe, we have learned that the hard way. Obviously, we are slowly forgetting the horrendous wars of the past, since nationalist political parties are getting more and more votes.
The distance from nationalism to ultranationalism becomes very short when a crisis appears. At the beginning of the Putin's unprovoked invasion, many Ukrainians wanted to fight for democracy. With the huge destructions and killings, I hear more and more their initial patriotism turning into essentialism: I'll die for Ukraine, Russians are barbarians by nature, etc. That's quite understandable, but still is a concern.
Note that I do think that a large majority of Russians are favorable to this war, in the sense of a necessity. Even if they were able to listen to independent media, I doubt that it would change their mind. The collective representation is that Ukraine is part of Russia - which is not true but still taken as a self-evident truth.
If the Russian people had access to independent information, they woukd be angry towards Putin for not succeeding, for the disorganization of the Russian army, for putting their sons at risk with a bad strategy and bad intelligence. Only a minority would oppose the war on historical grounds, or in the name of the sovereignty of the Ukrainian people.
When the French army was fighting against the independence of Algeria, or during the Vietnam war, few were opposing the war. The opposition went larger and larger in the US when the draft was imposed to the youth. Otherwise...
Unconditional support of "our" troups whatever the reasons for war is widely expected, if not considered as a civic duty. To me, that's the essence of nationalism: we are right because our country can't possibly be wrong. That's exactly what many Russians say when interviewed by western media. "Of course, Ukraine is a part of Russia. Of course, our army don't kill civilians."
When I cite the 2nd Iraq war, most of my American friends (educated & decent people) say: "Oh, that was a mistake". Yeah, a "mistake"... Tens of thousand civilians killed is a bit more than "a mistake". In France, most people don't know that hundreds of thousands of Algerians were killed during the Algeria War.
We, humans, are not social animals ; we are tribal animals.
An US flag on almost every house, the pledge of allegiance at school, the belief into the American exceptional destiny, the belief to be the best country in the world...
I lived in Brazil for 5 years and they are very nationalist as well. Many young Chinese as well.
Patriotism is one thing, nationalism another. In Europe, we have learned that the hard way. Obviously, we are slowly forgetting the horrendous wars of the past, since nationalist political parties are getting more and more votes.
The distance from nationalism to ultranationalism becomes very short when a crisis appears. At the beginning of the Putin's unprovoked invasion, many Ukrainians wanted to fight for democracy. With the huge destructions and killings, I hear more and more their initial patriotism turning into essentialism: I'll die for Ukraine, Russians are barbarians by nature, etc. That's quite understandable, but still is a concern.
Note that I do think that a large majority of Russians are favorable to this war, in the sense of a necessity. Even if they were able to listen to independent media, I doubt that it would change their mind. The collective representation is that Ukraine is part of Russia - which is not true but still taken as a self-evident truth.
If the Russian people had access to independent information, they woukd be angry towards Putin for not succeeding, for the disorganization of the Russian army, for putting their sons at risk with a bad strategy and bad intelligence. Only a minority would oppose the war on historical grounds, or in the name of the sovereignty of the Ukrainian people.
When the French army was fighting against the independence of Algeria, or during the Vietnam war, few were opposing the war. The opposition went larger and larger in the US when the draft was imposed to the youth. Otherwise...
Unconditional support of "our" troups whatever the reasons for war is widely expected, if not considered as a civic duty. To me, that's the essence of nationalism: we are right because our country can't possibly be wrong. That's exactly what many Russians say when interviewed by western media. "Of course, Ukraine is a part of Russia. Of course, our army don't kill civilians."
When I cite the 2nd Iraq war, most of my American friends (educated & decent people) say: "Oh, that was a mistake". Yeah, a "mistake"... Tens of thousand civilians killed is a bit more than "a mistake". In France, most people don't know that hundreds of thousands of Algerians were killed during the Algeria War.
We, humans, are not social animals ; we are tribal animals.
That was quite thoughtful, and I agree with almost everything you said, but I want to cast doubt on one thing. You feel that Europeans are managing to evolve beyond their traditional tribalism. I think they aren't, but are just transferring their tribal identification to "Europe." As an illustration, consider what happened with Brexit. When the UK voted to secede from the EU, there was an enormous outpouring of violent emotion from continental Europeans who seemed to feel personally insulted.
> from Ethnic Conflict and Minority Refugee Flight from Post-Soviet Ukraine
btw this doesn't just apply to Ukraine but almost any post Soviet state
Russia is increasingly less and less multi-ethnic by the day, russification is not slowing down, it has only increased.
> also looks for ethnic exclusivism
There is plenty of that and other types of imperial chauvinism. Actually at this moment we are seeing Great Russian chauvinism 2.0
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Russian_chauvinism
>> Modern Russians were referred to as "Great Russians", while Ukrainians were named "Lesser Russians"
we are seeing the result of this, Ukrainians are seen as lesser human beings or simply as pest worth of eradication. I would argue that most Russian soldiers right now think that Ukrainians should be subjugated and conquered, no-one seriously believes that Ukrainian army and civilians (who are bombarded more than the military) are Nazis, the whole talk of denazification is aimed at elderly who still remember WW2.
btw this doesn't just apply to Ukraine but almost any post Soviet state
Russia is increasingly less and less multi-ethnic by the day, russification is not slowing down, it has only increased.
> also looks for ethnic exclusivism
There is plenty of that and other types of imperial chauvinism. Actually at this moment we are seeing Great Russian chauvinism 2.0
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Russian_chauvinism
>> Modern Russians were referred to as "Great Russians", while Ukrainians were named "Lesser Russians"
we are seeing the result of this, Ukrainians are seen as lesser human beings or simply as pest worth of eradication. I would argue that most Russian soldiers right now think that Ukrainians should be subjugated and conquered, no-one seriously believes that Ukrainian army and civilians (who are bombarded more than the military) are Nazis, the whole talk of denazification is aimed at elderly who still remember WW2.
> no-one seriously believes that Ukrainian army and civilians...are Nazis
This idea gets repeated a lot, that Putin and other Russians are just cynically waving the "fascist" red flag without really believing it. I'm not so sure. Richard Sakwa's Frontline Ukraine[1] examines how post-USSR developments in the Ukraine looked from the Russian perspective. While I think most Westerners would find much to take issue with in the Russian position, their calling Ukranian society "fascistic" is not a far stretch based on their perceptions.
From the opposing political view, Ukrainian historian Taras Kuzio[2] makes no attempt to hide that he passionately hates Russia. His differing take on the same events gives an interesting counterpoint to Sakwa's book. In reading Kuzio's books, I personally felt that his heavy partisanship was doing his case more harm than good.
By the way, if you want a well-informed, non-partisan analysis of recent Ukrainian history, I think you can't do any better than Paul D'Anieri's Ukraine and Russia: From Civilized Divorce to Uncivil War[3]
[1] https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/24717077-frontline-uk...
[2] https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/908534.Taras_Kuzio
[3] https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/50041763-ukraine-and-...
This idea gets repeated a lot, that Putin and other Russians are just cynically waving the "fascist" red flag without really believing it. I'm not so sure. Richard Sakwa's Frontline Ukraine[1] examines how post-USSR developments in the Ukraine looked from the Russian perspective. While I think most Westerners would find much to take issue with in the Russian position, their calling Ukranian society "fascistic" is not a far stretch based on their perceptions.
From the opposing political view, Ukrainian historian Taras Kuzio[2] makes no attempt to hide that he passionately hates Russia. His differing take on the same events gives an interesting counterpoint to Sakwa's book. In reading Kuzio's books, I personally felt that his heavy partisanship was doing his case more harm than good.
By the way, if you want a well-informed, non-partisan analysis of recent Ukrainian history, I think you can't do any better than Paul D'Anieri's Ukraine and Russia: From Civilized Divorce to Uncivil War[3]
[1] https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/24717077-frontline-uk...
[2] https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/908534.Taras_Kuzio
[3] https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/50041763-ukraine-and-...
21st century definition of Fascism = Somebody I don't like.
Source: Mainstream media, Twitter, TikTok.
Looks like a lot has changed since the books of S.G Payne these days. Now everyone is suddenly thinking up ways of defining who is the top fascist villain of the month with their own loose definitions of what fascism is.
Oh dear.
Source: Mainstream media, Twitter, TikTok.
Looks like a lot has changed since the books of S.G Payne these days. Now everyone is suddenly thinking up ways of defining who is the top fascist villain of the month with their own loose definitions of what fascism is.
Oh dear.
No mention of the ultranationalists America has been funding in the east for the last decade. No mention of the Christchurch Shooter who trained with Azov. No mention of the women found raped and murdered with swastikas cut into their corpses in the Azov Battalion commands center filmed by the Russians this weekend.
I'm all for calling a Nazi a Nazi, but in this case, can we at least call the actual Nazis Nazis?
I'm all for calling a Nazi a Nazi, but in this case, can we at least call the actual Nazis Nazis?
The author is right. If one reads Umberto Ecos essay about Ur-fascism (https://www.pegc.us/archive/Articles/eco_ur-fascism.pdf), Putins Russia checks all 14 signs of fascism listed in the article.
Recent discussion (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30742179).
Textbooks are obsolete.
> Ukraine’s tiny number of right-wing extremists are about as influential as the Proud Boys in the United States
Apart from avenues in the capital and stadiums named after Bandera and Shukhevich. And Azov being a prime star in pro-Ukraine propaganda.
Apart from avenues in the capital and stadiums named after Bandera and Shukhevich. And Azov being a prime star in pro-Ukraine propaganda.
Russia is a consciously multiethnic state, while post-USSR Ukraine has been disturbingly exclusivist and (internally) expansionist toward the ethnic Russians in Ukraine.
From Ethnic Conflict and Minority Refugee Flight from Post-Soviet Ukraine, 1991–2001[2]
Over the course of the first decade of an independent Ukraine, the number of ethnic Russians fell 26.6 per cent, from 11.4 m to 8.3 m, and the number of Jews fell by a whopping 78.7 per cent, from 486,326 to 103,600.
Besides mounting evidence of refugee flight, there was also the emergence of a post-Soviet popular culture of hate literature, the ubiquity of radical right extremist broadsides that scapegoated Jews and Russians alike for post-Soviet Ukraine's many woes.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30583319
[2] https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1364298080239683...