Ask HN: how to spend your (early) 20s?
16 comments
I'm about to turn 30 years very shortly here, so this is from my perspective. Years ago, after college, I spent most of my traveling around various places in the world across all of the continents, trying my hand at a few businesses, some which worked and some which some failed miserably, and chasing women. I think if you travel, chase money, and chase women, all in equal balance with none at the expenses of the other, you will most likely not have any regrets ten years from now unless you get a girl pregnant, then all bets are off. As you progress in age, you may learn to make the mix more efficient by realizations such as "if you are successful chasing money, you spend much less time chasing women, as they then chase you". Money and women have been sought after by men for thousands of years, and while today's modern intellectual man may find it simplistic and barbaric, there is nothing wrong with satiating your appetite for what you were naturally programmed to do, be an animal. You can learn a lot from rappers, they have the basic idea figured out. Knock the top few layers off Maslow's hierarchy of needs and you have a higher likelihood of being happy. Just my humble opinion.
Explore.
Explore jobs. Explore places. Explore hobbies.
I personally think that unless you've had this totally overwhelming idea about a company for several years you shouldn't try to start a company at this stage. If anything, work a couple of years at a larger or established company. Get a feel for how things are done, so that when you do go off on your own, you have some better idea of what the "finished product" is supposed (or not supposed) to operate like.
Travel. Buy a ticket someplace and just go be there for a while. Work, write, hang out, whatever, just do it.
Have relationships, probably none too serious, but enough to see how your personality fits with other types. Try your hand as a pick up artist (really, you can learn a lot from this).
Basically, spend your early 20's really looking at the world and figuring out what/who you want to be when you grow up.
Explore jobs. Explore places. Explore hobbies.
I personally think that unless you've had this totally overwhelming idea about a company for several years you shouldn't try to start a company at this stage. If anything, work a couple of years at a larger or established company. Get a feel for how things are done, so that when you do go off on your own, you have some better idea of what the "finished product" is supposed (or not supposed) to operate like.
Travel. Buy a ticket someplace and just go be there for a while. Work, write, hang out, whatever, just do it.
Have relationships, probably none too serious, but enough to see how your personality fits with other types. Try your hand as a pick up artist (really, you can learn a lot from this).
Basically, spend your early 20's really looking at the world and figuring out what/who you want to be when you grow up.
I'm on the earlier side of the spectrum turning 20 last January. Currently, I'm sitting on my couch writing this while doing research on a "big" startup idea I have, but during the school year, I attend Georgetown. Over the summer, I'll be at Oxford taking a few classes and traveling around Europe a little.
After school, I'm really undecided on what I will do. I would much rather prefer to start my own venture, but the $$$ and relative safety of big corporations are big incentives to defect. I'm really glad I have another 2 years to figure it out.
What are you currently/hoping to do?
What are you currently/hoping to do?
(I am also 20).
Hah, well, I'm not quite sure, hence this post.
But after spending the past few months researching and meticulously laying out a conquer-the-world startup idea, I've come to the realization that I'm not quite prepared for it. It's going to require too much money and I don't have all of the necessary skills to get it off the ground.
So, until I'm ready, I'm working on a couple smaller projects, both of which, coincidentally (or not), apply directly to the "big" idea. The goal is to make enough income from these projects in order to finance some travel (and the future startup.) Ideally, the skills from these smaller biz projects will prepare me for the big game down the line.
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As far as the big corporation vs. your own venture, my advice would be to try and develop your own things before you graduate. That way, it will be an easier decision in 2 years; either you need a job, or you don't.
That said, I personally would go for my own venture, simply for the personal freedom. Running an online business that makes ~30k a year would be worth significantly more to me than a ~60k stationary full-time job.
Hah, well, I'm not quite sure, hence this post.
But after spending the past few months researching and meticulously laying out a conquer-the-world startup idea, I've come to the realization that I'm not quite prepared for it. It's going to require too much money and I don't have all of the necessary skills to get it off the ground.
So, until I'm ready, I'm working on a couple smaller projects, both of which, coincidentally (or not), apply directly to the "big" idea. The goal is to make enough income from these projects in order to finance some travel (and the future startup.) Ideally, the skills from these smaller biz projects will prepare me for the big game down the line.
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As far as the big corporation vs. your own venture, my advice would be to try and develop your own things before you graduate. That way, it will be an easier decision in 2 years; either you need a job, or you don't.
That said, I personally would go for my own venture, simply for the personal freedom. Running an online business that makes ~30k a year would be worth significantly more to me than a ~60k stationary full-time job.
I completely agree with your advice to build a ton of things while still in college. I graduated college one year ago and have been working for a large consulting firm since graduation. The firm I work for has extremely strict Intellectual Property portions of my contract and it discourages me from building things on the side. My one regret in college was not spending more time building cool things (websites, mobile apps, games, etc) and playing with the latest "greatest" tech.
I also agree with your goal of working for yourself and making less money than working for a large firm. I am hoping to work for a start-up/start my own business eventually, but I have student loans to pay off so I went with a high salaried job right out of college to pay them off quickly.
I also agree with your goal of working for yourself and making less money than working for a large firm. I am hoping to work for a start-up/start my own business eventually, but I have student loans to pay off so I went with a high salaried job right out of college to pay them off quickly.
Not a bad strategy. I have already started a company which has been my number learning experience. I definitely know what I would do differently. Just to clarify the venture was not a failure, but also far away from being a "big" startup (read: slightly cash positive).
My number 1 piece of advice (although I don't know how much it is worth) is to network. It is crazy how mindless some investors truly are. It seems if you can get 1 person with a pretty big name in the tech industry behind your project, you can get the whole gang. Obviously you need a great product, but it seems the true value in startups today is the name.
Are you the business or engineer side (or both)?
Are you the business or engineer side (or both)?
Yeah, you're probably right on the networking, although investors right now might be affected by the bubble situation. Networking in general is a good practice, though.
I'm striving to be both the business and the engineer, although I have much more experience with business (family and small money-making projects I've done through the years.) Ideally, I'd like to build the site entirely myself and then bring on a technical wizard (for salary or a small chunk of equity) to be the CTO. Call me selfish, but I want to have control over my business - no huge dilution to co-founders and investors for me, thanks.
I'm striving to be both the business and the engineer, although I have much more experience with business (family and small money-making projects I've done through the years.) Ideally, I'd like to build the site entirely myself and then bring on a technical wizard (for salary or a small chunk of equity) to be the CTO. Call me selfish, but I want to have control over my business - no huge dilution to co-founders and investors for me, thanks.
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Whatever else you do, keep a journal. Cheap notebooks with a decent pen work well, but OhLife (YC S10) is pretty great. Keeping a public blog is not the same thing. Consistency is unimportant, but the habit is vital. "Keeping a journal" is something you can still be doing even if you haven't actually written much in it in weeks. A sentence here, a sentence there. It adds up.
I’m currently 24, finally about to graduate after 7 years at university.
Did freelancing and contract work when I was 19, then I joined a large company at 20 where I worked full-time for nearly three years (I really just wanted an escape from university where I was questioning why I was there when I cared little about my major and seemed to bell well-off without a degree). After that I did PR work for a gaming startup for a few months.
Looking back, I wouldn’t have changed a lot of what I did other than hustling more towards my degree and other side projects when I took on the full-time gig. I was so burned-out from that one job that I just spent the rest of my time playing video games and taking one course per term. I became too complacent and didn’t explore all my possibilities when I had great freedom to do so.
So, whatever you do, just don’t do only that. Go for a breadth of experience; travel while doing freelancing, join a large company while doing a startup on the side, etc.
Did freelancing and contract work when I was 19, then I joined a large company at 20 where I worked full-time for nearly three years (I really just wanted an escape from university where I was questioning why I was there when I cared little about my major and seemed to bell well-off without a degree). After that I did PR work for a gaming startup for a few months.
Looking back, I wouldn’t have changed a lot of what I did other than hustling more towards my degree and other side projects when I took on the full-time gig. I was so burned-out from that one job that I just spent the rest of my time playing video games and taking one course per term. I became too complacent and didn’t explore all my possibilities when I had great freedom to do so.
So, whatever you do, just don’t do only that. Go for a breadth of experience; travel while doing freelancing, join a large company while doing a startup on the side, etc.
18-23
Did the traditional college route. (Stanford)
This was great for me because I needed the resources to pursue a gymnastics career. It also exposed me to lots of interesting people and ideas. I had the opportunity to initiate projects and start things. Stuck around for a masters after my undergrad (both in biology) and to use my last year of athletic eligibility.
23
Ran the business operations of my college newspaper.
It was a paid full-time job where I got to manage adult and student staff and report to a board of directors. Great experience running a small business with real revenues and expenses (had to cut expenses massively while reorienting the sales side to stop the revenue decline). Let me know I wanted to be an entrepreneur.
24
Worked in sales and marketing at an ad tech startup. (isocket)
Also great experience - gave me handson skills, saw how a b2b startup launches and starts to get traction. Built my network. Started blogging. Worked my butt off.
25 Started my own startup. Got together with some good friends who were in startups working as developers. We decided to take the leap and start something. We're targeting a big market and the odds of success are slim but we're hopeful and hungry. =)
Hard to say what I'd do differently. Wish I had done more personal projects and less student groups in college. Wish I had learned how to code. Wish I had started blogging earlier. Wish I had traveled outside the country more (the startup will keep me busy). But since I'm pretty happy with how things have turned out so far, can't really call those strong regrets by any means...
You're asking the right questions - keep thinking about this stuff ... and if you have an inkling of a good idea, DO something abou it, even if it's just to send an email or write a post about it. You never know where it will lead...
Did the traditional college route. (Stanford)
This was great for me because I needed the resources to pursue a gymnastics career. It also exposed me to lots of interesting people and ideas. I had the opportunity to initiate projects and start things. Stuck around for a masters after my undergrad (both in biology) and to use my last year of athletic eligibility.
23
Ran the business operations of my college newspaper.
It was a paid full-time job where I got to manage adult and student staff and report to a board of directors. Great experience running a small business with real revenues and expenses (had to cut expenses massively while reorienting the sales side to stop the revenue decline). Let me know I wanted to be an entrepreneur.
24
Worked in sales and marketing at an ad tech startup. (isocket)
Also great experience - gave me handson skills, saw how a b2b startup launches and starts to get traction. Built my network. Started blogging. Worked my butt off.
25 Started my own startup. Got together with some good friends who were in startups working as developers. We decided to take the leap and start something. We're targeting a big market and the odds of success are slim but we're hopeful and hungry. =)
Hard to say what I'd do differently. Wish I had done more personal projects and less student groups in college. Wish I had learned how to code. Wish I had started blogging earlier. Wish I had traveled outside the country more (the startup will keep me busy). But since I'm pretty happy with how things have turned out so far, can't really call those strong regrets by any means...
You're asking the right questions - keep thinking about this stuff ... and if you have an inkling of a good idea, DO something abou it, even if it's just to send an email or write a post about it. You never know where it will lead...
I'm in my early 40's now, so here's my take: Follow your passion (I quit College to develop software), do the things that interest you without overspecializing (I did low level device drivers, database systems, consulting, games), and don't stay too long at any given job. (Never more than two years)
Do something crazy occasionally. (I emigrated to the US, from Germany - and I spent all my vacation time working on cruise ships)
By your early thirties, you'll have had a lot of fun, and a decent idea what you like. (Although that changes occasionally - did games for 15 years, working on the Internet side of things now. No more games, got over it)
Above all, have fun. If things go wrong in your 20's, a reboot is not a big deal. As you start accumulating the things that go with age (a family, a higher salary, a mortgage, etc.) a restart is more terrifying and probably harder.
Do something crazy occasionally. (I emigrated to the US, from Germany - and I spent all my vacation time working on cruise ships)
By your early thirties, you'll have had a lot of fun, and a decent idea what you like. (Although that changes occasionally - did games for 15 years, working on the Internet side of things now. No more games, got over it)
Above all, have fun. If things go wrong in your 20's, a reboot is not a big deal. As you start accumulating the things that go with age (a family, a higher salary, a mortgage, etc.) a restart is more terrifying and probably harder.
Recently turned 26. I spent a bit too long in university switching degrees and all, starting in economics but eventually graduated in electrical engineering. I got a job right out of school working for a large engineering construction company. Quickly realized that wasn't for me, but stayed on for 2 years for the paycheck. Married the girl of my dreams, quit my job, and moved to Guatemala to study spanish for a few months. I'm writing this the night before I head back to the US. In a month I'm moving to the San Francisco, and we'll see what happens from there.
Seems like there is no right or wrong way to go. I'd say just make sure you're happy and always challenging yourself.
Seems like there is no right or wrong way to go. I'd say just make sure you're happy and always challenging yourself.
I just graduated from College and have been connected to the matrix (aka corporate america) for the past year. I can say that working and having a stable job will definitely tell you if you want to do your own thing. I discovered quickly that I am way to motivated to stay in a 8 to 5 job and that I want to do my own thing or join a supportive corporation.
I would recommend doing some corporate gig if you are unsure about starting your own company, but realize that it is very hard to cut the pay check. It is difficult to leave a stable well paying job.
I am pretty firmly in the camp of entrepreneurship and it is still difficult for me to remove myself from the matrix.
I would recommend doing some corporate gig if you are unsure about starting your own company, but realize that it is very hard to cut the pay check. It is difficult to leave a stable well paying job.
I am pretty firmly in the camp of entrepreneurship and it is still difficult for me to remove myself from the matrix.
Agreed. Getting paid $65k and higher right out of college (where one is likely making zero) from a stable job is hard to give up. It can be helpful in the short term to pay off college loans and the like, but some people fall into the "one more year of my giant paycheck and then I'll do something I enjoy" trap. Before they realize it, many years have gone by...
I have worked my arse off in my 20's. 10 hour workdays on average, and when I left my first employer, after 9.5 years, I got paid out 260 unused leave days (we had time-off-in-lieu for weekends).
On the plus side: this set me up financially for the rest of my life; I developed high skills and a good reputation; and the work was interesting in itself.
On the minus side: I lost touch with most of my school/university friends; had trouble maintaining relationships with girls.
Funny thing is: I am not sure whether I'd do it all again, or not... so I don't know what to recommend... sorry.
On the plus side: this set me up financially for the rest of my life; I developed high skills and a good reputation; and the work was interesting in itself.
On the minus side: I lost touch with most of my school/university friends; had trouble maintaining relationships with girls.
Funny thing is: I am not sure whether I'd do it all again, or not... so I don't know what to recommend... sorry.
Travel. You'll be able to get away with doing it more cheaply than at any other time in your life.
I am a self taught programmer with a BA in Political Science who works as a pseudo-project/product manager.
When I graduated on 2007, I worked at a major medical software company. In 2010 I joined a more traditional software startup (not the Silicon Valley startups like you see here). I think this was a good path for me. I've certainly learned a lot at both companies, although the startup is much more rewarding.
Regarding graduate school, I'm not interested in paying to learn what I've already learned through experience. When I get to graduate school I'd rather study new stuff (not just learn object-oriented design...ugh).
When I graduated on 2007, I worked at a major medical software company. In 2010 I joined a more traditional software startup (not the Silicon Valley startups like you see here). I think this was a good path for me. I've certainly learned a lot at both companies, although the startup is much more rewarding.
Regarding graduate school, I'm not interested in paying to learn what I've already learned through experience. When I get to graduate school I'd rather study new stuff (not just learn object-oriented design...ugh).
I just started a job at a large company where the job security is excellent. But I don't want job security right now, I want to do something exciting and real. I just wish I was brave enough to dive in.
About 15 years ago I worked with a 24 YO man who had married his high school sweetheart and they had 3 kids. Some guys would tease him that he missed out on so many things.
One day he said that these guys had it wrong, because when he is in his mid 40's, his house will be paid for and his kids will be in college.
Not a bad plan if you can pull it off.
I hope he did/will.
One day he said that these guys had it wrong, because when he is in his mid 40's, his house will be paid for and his kids will be in college.
Not a bad plan if you can pull it off.
I hope he did/will.
I would say any of those sound fine. The one thing I wish I had done was not spend more than 3 or so years in any one location or job in my early-mid 20s.
A pg essay on the subject is fitting:
http://paulgraham.com/hs.html
I'd love to hear opinions from those currently in their early 20s - what you're doing - as well as older folks - what you did, and what you wish you did (if they aren't the same! :) )
(by early, I mean age ~20 to 25)