Work events, Zoom Lunches and other forced social activities are driving me nuts
14 comments
If I provide lunch via door dash and we just do it once a quarter does it really irk you?
I believe it's a good way to celebrate wins and everyone gets to take some time from work and just chill with each other. I offer the door dash regardless if you show up as there is no pressure either way for me, I'd just like to celebrate team wins.
Genuinely curious if this is bad because it feels forced? My team seems to enjoy it but maybe it's just bullshit.
I believe it's a good way to celebrate wins and everyone gets to take some time from work and just chill with each other. I offer the door dash regardless if you show up as there is no pressure either way for me, I'd just like to celebrate team wins.
Genuinely curious if this is bad because it feels forced? My team seems to enjoy it but maybe it's just bullshit.
My company does this, Doordash included. I still hate it.
First of all, the effort of orchestrating the food delivery through you is just annoying. Buying food on my own app is trivial and you pay me enough that it barely registers as having any value.
Ignoring that part, I dislike it because praise from people who don’t have the same expertise as you is typically bullshit. The business team has no idea which engineering stuff is trivial and which is hard, and they frequently mix up the two. Even within an engineering team, backend and front end (for example) may have no clue about certain things the other is doing.
I’d much rather take congratulations from my (hopefully engineer) boss in private and have it reflected in my future evaluations, references, etc. That’s way more authentic and valuable to me than win theater.
First of all, the effort of orchestrating the food delivery through you is just annoying. Buying food on my own app is trivial and you pay me enough that it barely registers as having any value.
Ignoring that part, I dislike it because praise from people who don’t have the same expertise as you is typically bullshit. The business team has no idea which engineering stuff is trivial and which is hard, and they frequently mix up the two. Even within an engineering team, backend and front end (for example) may have no clue about certain things the other is doing.
I’d much rather take congratulations from my (hopefully engineer) boss in private and have it reflected in my future evaluations, references, etc. That’s way more authentic and valuable to me than win theater.
My company has done a bunch of those activities, but luckily for me they were webinars so I just muted the tab and keept doing my job without paying them any attention. I even managed to do it at in person events. Most of the people attending those events are trying to do the same, so they won't snitch on you.
started a new job. had one of these 'zoom happy hours' the other day. as soon as I found out we were playing a game my internet started crapping out on me...and I unfortunately couldn't partake. ;)
We need an AI that can pretend to be a zombified version of you at these Zoom events. It's a long way away tech wise but one can hope.
This exact idea has been bouncing around in my imagination. Would work for some employees better than others.
Max Headroom Here!
cowardly, but effective
Someone posted a link on HN to a site that adds random noises to your Zoom call. Next step would be a webcam driver that randomly freezes the video (as well as a virtual audio device that does the same).
I wonder if that's achievable with iptables rules that drop packets randomly. Or, if putting the WiFi router inside an unpowered microwave (it's a Faraday cage) would do it.
I wonder if that's achievable with iptables rules that drop packets randomly. Or, if putting the WiFi router inside an unpowered microwave (it's a Faraday cage) would do it.
[deleted]
Yes, this is achievable with bit-buckets in iptables or QoS on a capable router. The WiFi in a microwave or faraday bag won't work because you just wouldn't be able to connect period.
You know your co-workers surf this site. I expect to see you at the next game night.
I have been there before.
1) talk with your manager/higher up. Believe it or not, sometimes they understand your point of view. I had a manager admit they were being quite unsensitive to some of my personal hangs during these things
2) if 1 doesn't pan out, depending on how you feel about the company, either quit, or sabotage as much as possible to show how stupid the mandatory activities are. Want to play music? just play some hardcore, cursing music, jesus hating, muslim degrating metal (or whatever) and say it is your jam. Cooking? Just keep saying everything needs more garlic and say any other recipe needs more garlic. GARLIC!!!!! didn't use a full clove? MORE GARLIC!!!!! Fuck... put 3 buds of garlic in everything, including herbal tea. GAAAAARLIC!!
3) Just mute everyone, turn video off and do your thing. That is what I do for most of my 'social meetings' anyway. I go, cook my dinner, walk my dog, and when everyone is saying goodbye, I just throw a 'wave' emoji or something
1) talk with your manager/higher up. Believe it or not, sometimes they understand your point of view. I had a manager admit they were being quite unsensitive to some of my personal hangs during these things
2) if 1 doesn't pan out, depending on how you feel about the company, either quit, or sabotage as much as possible to show how stupid the mandatory activities are. Want to play music? just play some hardcore, cursing music, jesus hating, muslim degrating metal (or whatever) and say it is your jam. Cooking? Just keep saying everything needs more garlic and say any other recipe needs more garlic. GARLIC!!!!! didn't use a full clove? MORE GARLIC!!!!! Fuck... put 3 buds of garlic in everything, including herbal tea. GAAAAARLIC!!
3) Just mute everyone, turn video off and do your thing. That is what I do for most of my 'social meetings' anyway. I go, cook my dinner, walk my dog, and when everyone is saying goodbye, I just throw a 'wave' emoji or something
#2 is a retarded idea, don't do that.
sabotage is the best you got? how about just saying i dont mix business and pleasure. im here to do my job. if you dont like it you can find someone else.
who wants to work for some big corp pushing woke agenda and treating you like children anyway? sounds like kindergarten "okay kids now its recess" or "now is your naptime". im good. id sooner starve in the streets. i think too many people are cowards and wont stand up to this kinda thing. so they deserve what they get.
who wants to work for some big corp pushing woke agenda and treating you like children anyway? sounds like kindergarten "okay kids now its recess" or "now is your naptime". im good. id sooner starve in the streets. i think too many people are cowards and wont stand up to this kinda thing. so they deserve what they get.
I would gather that there should be a middle ground. But the larger the company, the less you will be likely to find it.
As in, our company has started doing some of these Zoom Fun meetings too. I guess as a manager I should go? Well I don't. They're after work. Bull! When we were at the office, we'd have things like monthly birthday boy/girl cake in the afternoons. During work hours, like it should be.
Also good luck getting me to go back to the office 5 days a week. Not gonna happen. This commute and quality of life is just too good to give up again. Of course there are many people in the company that miss the office and can't wait to get back. Some are just extroverts, so I get it. At least from their point of view. But then again, I really like to see them suffer. They've suffered enough you say? It's only been a year! They've made me suffer all my working life!
Others I think just like the procrastinating while showing you're "working" by having "body in office" time high.
As in, our company has started doing some of these Zoom Fun meetings too. I guess as a manager I should go? Well I don't. They're after work. Bull! When we were at the office, we'd have things like monthly birthday boy/girl cake in the afternoons. During work hours, like it should be.
Also good luck getting me to go back to the office 5 days a week. Not gonna happen. This commute and quality of life is just too good to give up again. Of course there are many people in the company that miss the office and can't wait to get back. Some are just extroverts, so I get it. At least from their point of view. But then again, I really like to see them suffer. They've suffered enough you say? It's only been a year! They've made me suffer all my working life!
Others I think just like the procrastinating while showing you're "working" by having "body in office" time high.
Wishing suffering on others is only going to hurt you. People seem to have no problem creating suffering for themselves, no need to wish it on them. As far as suffering your entire working life, sounds like you need to make some changes in your life. no one is making you suffer except you. regarding working from home: i cant see much reason to make developers go to the office especially after the [total]itarian lock downs, so i salute you on your newfound ethic.
I'm not sure how that's supposed to hurt me to be honest. It's not like I'm trying to make voodoo dolls of them and might poke myself in the finger by accident. But fair enough on being overly dramatic on the wording. It's not like I'm actively trying to make them suffer.
I do feel for the other introverts that are more socially inclined and suffering as well. There's many an introvert that is finding out that they are introverts but that it doesn't mean that all personal human contact was bad. Even myself, I miss some of it. In fact, since I'm less drained from being around people all day in the office and during the commute, I feel more need to get out myself and I socialize more on my own time (though it takes different forms thanks to the pandemic than before). Before there was nothing left and I just wanted to be by myself.
However, I will maintain that I shed zero tears for the extroverted (especially HR types) people that force stuff on you without any consideration whatsoever. The worst are the ones that try to make you feel bad for being who you are and trying to make you more like them as if that is the only way to be.
I do feel for the other introverts that are more socially inclined and suffering as well. There's many an introvert that is finding out that they are introverts but that it doesn't mean that all personal human contact was bad. Even myself, I miss some of it. In fact, since I'm less drained from being around people all day in the office and during the commute, I feel more need to get out myself and I socialize more on my own time (though it takes different forms thanks to the pandemic than before). Before there was nothing left and I just wanted to be by myself.
However, I will maintain that I shed zero tears for the extroverted (especially HR types) people that force stuff on you without any consideration whatsoever. The worst are the ones that try to make you feel bad for being who you are and trying to make you more like them as if that is the only way to be.
> Just mute everyone, turn video off and do your thing. That is what I do for most of my 'social meetings' anyway. I go, cook my dinner, walk my dog, and when everyone is saying goodbye, I just throw a 'wave' emoji or something
I do this even when in office. Body present, mind absent. Perhaps this culture of 'team building' and 'social activities' etc ought to be rethought. People will make friends as per their comfort and disposition. In a workplace, its best to let everyone be and do their thing and focus on work.
Try too much to make and gel people together and it backfires.
I do this even when in office. Body present, mind absent. Perhaps this culture of 'team building' and 'social activities' etc ought to be rethought. People will make friends as per their comfort and disposition. In a workplace, its best to let everyone be and do their thing and focus on work.
Try too much to make and gel people together and it backfires.
Is it during work time? Great. No? Aight, imma head out.
Indeed. Often not a fan of my workplaces insistence on precise time tracking, but for things like this it avoids discussions.
indeed.
The problem is on a salaried job it can take place during work time but cause you to play catch up on actual work some other time.
This may be a gap between intent and how the execution hits you.
The theory (backed by research) is that creating connection can create psychological safety, and that improves team functioning. Given the physical isolation during the pandemic, many events have moved to Zoom, and often MORE events have been created to help with connection.
Which is where we come to execution. Finding activities and timing that generates connection is hard. For example, whatever your company is picking absolutely does not engender in you what they are hoping to engender.
The downside of being unhappy during 'irrelevant' activities or not joining them is that work is by and large a communal activity. The water cooler is still a good metaphor even when your work does not have any other them around.
Are there activities you and others enjoy that you could suggest? Even if just for your team and closest stakeholders.
Also: as someone else pointed out, mandatory should equate "during work time for which I am paid." The rest is optional.
Which is where we come to execution. Finding activities and timing that generates connection is hard. For example, whatever your company is picking absolutely does not engender in you what they are hoping to engender.
The downside of being unhappy during 'irrelevant' activities or not joining them is that work is by and large a communal activity. The water cooler is still a good metaphor even when your work does not have any other them around.
Are there activities you and others enjoy that you could suggest? Even if just for your team and closest stakeholders.
Also: as someone else pointed out, mandatory should equate "during work time for which I am paid." The rest is optional.
> The theory (backed by research) is that creating connection can create psychological safety.
Did that research use unidirectional broadcasting to create said connection? Because the events are mostly not a dialog, just a series of broadcasts.
Did that research use unidirectional broadcasting to create said connection? Because the events are mostly not a dialog, just a series of broadcasts.
It isn't just fun events either. At my place they are trying to establish lunch & learns now. With everyone WFH. Who comes up with these crazy ideas?
With a lunch and learn when everyone is at the office, you kill two birds with one stone. Learning is a good thing and it's sometimes hard to find the time otherwise. And by offering catered lunch you get bonus points/goodwill/whatever with the employees.
During WFH times this is absolutely the opposite. You're trying to make me work during my lunch now and you don't even buy me lunch! (and no, sending me a pizza voucher or something does not make it better. They don't deliver here anyway.
With a lunch and learn when everyone is at the office, you kill two birds with one stone. Learning is a good thing and it's sometimes hard to find the time otherwise. And by offering catered lunch you get bonus points/goodwill/whatever with the employees.
During WFH times this is absolutely the opposite. You're trying to make me work during my lunch now and you don't even buy me lunch! (and no, sending me a pizza voucher or something does not make it better. They don't deliver here anyway.
They should def buy lunch
The problem is these events are organized by gregarious and highly extroverted HR/operations types and imposed on people who are the polar opposite to them in terms of personality.
There was literally universal dislike for these kind of forced activities in the workplaces I've been at, however these preferences weren't broadcast that wide for obvious reasons (not wanting to sound negative or whatever).
Whatever the academic research says, I don't buy it, I've lived through the dislike of these events and have heard enough feedback from people that share my view for me to conclude otherwise.
There was literally universal dislike for these kind of forced activities in the workplaces I've been at, however these preferences weren't broadcast that wide for obvious reasons (not wanting to sound negative or whatever).
Whatever the academic research says, I don't buy it, I've lived through the dislike of these events and have heard enough feedback from people that share my view for me to conclude otherwise.
i haven't lived the zoom lifestyle yet, as my only pandemic gig was phone-only.
but i def feel like zoom is over-relied-upon. why else would _so_ many people have zoom fatigue?
then again, this is prob more about team-building exercises than zoom.
i do wonder about the actual effectiveness of said exercises.
i know, 'studies say' -- but....i'm skeptical. i guess i have to read some of those studies.
i wonder if, for the time/effort/money put into teambuilding exercises, could we not just give everyone a 4-day work week?
but i def feel like zoom is over-relied-upon. why else would _so_ many people have zoom fatigue?
then again, this is prob more about team-building exercises than zoom.
i do wonder about the actual effectiveness of said exercises.
i know, 'studies say' -- but....i'm skeptical. i guess i have to read some of those studies.
i wonder if, for the time/effort/money put into teambuilding exercises, could we not just give everyone a 4-day work week?
Perhaps it’s that they are tired of zoom meetings and more that they feel a need to meet people in real life.
HR likes to setup lunch interviews. I'm supposed to eat lunch while interviewing someone, who I assume is eating lunch as well. This is supposed to create a relaxed interview situation for all parties. I've accepted that someone may see me drop food on myself and laptop.
This has got to be the most brain-dead idea I've come across in a very long time.
In an interview I want both of us to focus on the interview, and not pretend to be relaxed and casual with someone I've never met in my life. That sends very wrong signals on all sorts of levels.
In an interview I want both of us to focus on the interview, and not pretend to be relaxed and casual with someone I've never met in my life. That sends very wrong signals on all sorts of levels.
HR needs to justify their existence and bloated salary by doing something.
They're good and necessary for paperwork etc but are just so destructive when they're in a position of influence (or autonomy + executive authority). I wish more people would realize this.
They're good and necessary for paperwork etc but are just so destructive when they're in a position of influence (or autonomy + executive authority). I wish more people would realize this.
Few things as bad as "lunch-n-learn" meetings where you cant eat lunch where you want to, and you have to provide your own lunch.
Seems more like forced overtime to be honest, my lunch hour is unpaid, and is mine to do as i see fit.
Seems more like forced overtime to be honest, my lunch hour is unpaid, and is mine to do as i see fit.
I am an introvert, therefore biased about extroverts.
In my experience managers and the persons who plan those "fun zoom activities" are extroverts and think that everybody else wants to have fun the same way as they do.
My take is: you get paid to get your work done. If you wanted to do all those fun things you would have run away with a circus.
In my experience managers and the persons who plan those "fun zoom activities" are extroverts and think that everybody else wants to have fun the same way as they do.
My take is: you get paid to get your work done. If you wanted to do all those fun things you would have run away with a circus.
> My take is: you get paid to get your work done.
Well, that's what managers think as well. They are being paid to organize such activities ;)
Sure, those activities don't make much sense (my opinion), but they think they do (their opinion)... Just let it be. Let them do their job (organize activities) while you do yours (not attend such activities while being in office hours): everyone get their job done and everyone wins.
Well, that's what managers think as well. They are being paid to organize such activities ;)
Sure, those activities don't make much sense (my opinion), but they think they do (their opinion)... Just let it be. Let them do their job (organize activities) while you do yours (not attend such activities while being in office hours): everyone get their job done and everyone wins.
Thinking about it this way it's clear how unintentionally selfish these events are. It's literally a transfer of energy levels from the introvert who doesn't want to be there to the extrovert who organized it and forced everyone to go.
The introvert leaves feeling drained and the extrovert leaves feeling energized. My guess is it's a negative sum transfer - introverts lose more than the extroverts gain.
The introvert leaves feeling drained and the extrovert leaves feeling energized. My guess is it's a negative sum transfer - introverts lose more than the extroverts gain.
We just did this a month ago. A couple dozen people introducing ourselves, having a "virtual lunch" followed by some games, a quiz, and some other team building activities.
Having to always be on camera got super stressful within a few minutes. I had to go through with it, as it was the first time many of us were meeting. Over the years I've learned to just go through the pain for a bit to get to where I want to be. This event really helped network me with some key people in power.
After a while I switched off the camera and microphone and just went along for the ride. People are more concerned about themselves and less about watching you. People have short attention spans on these types of calls. Nobody is going to miss you if you disappear for a few hours and appear just as the meeting ends.
These virtual social events are idiotic and stress inducing to me, but you can exploit it. You just need to find a way to play the system. I attend only when it will really benefit me.
Having to always be on camera got super stressful within a few minutes. I had to go through with it, as it was the first time many of us were meeting. Over the years I've learned to just go through the pain for a bit to get to where I want to be. This event really helped network me with some key people in power.
After a while I switched off the camera and microphone and just went along for the ride. People are more concerned about themselves and less about watching you. People have short attention spans on these types of calls. Nobody is going to miss you if you disappear for a few hours and appear just as the meeting ends.
These virtual social events are idiotic and stress inducing to me, but you can exploit it. You just need to find a way to play the system. I attend only when it will really benefit me.
Managers are going to have a hell of a time, trying to build a team in remote working scenarios.
Only can managers get so imaginative that they try to replicate in-person team building activities online.
Really? Virtual lunches? Years of experience and MBA education leads to this?
Why not engage them in an online gaming platform, with some relaxing games, or a second world type setting?
Only can managers get so imaginative that they try to replicate in-person team building activities online.
Really? Virtual lunches? Years of experience and MBA education leads to this?
Why not engage them in an online gaming platform, with some relaxing games, or a second world type setting?
Or... Just focus on being a good manager and not on saddling them with extraneous bullshit.
Wow! This new COVID/remote culture is crazy.
Makes you feel like you're that guy from ED TV[0].
But the most painful thing to me, is that company enforces those activities outside of working hours.
[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EDtv
[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EDtv
I have realised some years ago that if you quietly stop attending, nobody will notice or care. On monthly town halls at a previous job I routinely went to the toilet as people were gathering, then once the event started for good, I slipped back to my desk or left for a walk. Nobody ever noticed or cared.
The next place, one of those socialising, average loser kind of a colleague asked why I wasn't attending company events and after-hour team buildings, and I told her I had a medical appointment. She didn't press the topic, and stopped asking after 2-3 times.
My strategy for pushy people who ever would ask what kind of an appointment I had (happened once) is to tell them how rude I find them asking such a question. Nobody wants others to think of them as a rude person, since everybody wants to be liked. The person never asked me anything personal ever again, and I like it that way.
The next place, one of those socialising, average loser kind of a colleague asked why I wasn't attending company events and after-hour team buildings, and I told her I had a medical appointment. She didn't press the topic, and stopped asking after 2-3 times.
My strategy for pushy people who ever would ask what kind of an appointment I had (happened once) is to tell them how rude I find them asking such a question. Nobody wants others to think of them as a rude person, since everybody wants to be liked. The person never asked me anything personal ever again, and I like it that way.
Ours literally has a list of attendees and we go in a circle, each having to speak in turn. Usually about something personal. It’s dire.
you should come up with fictional childhood stories, or movie scenes without giving too much detail on characters or environment.
[deleted]
Just don't attend them. Be honest and say you have work to do.
This happened as well before COVID with quarterly events where we would do the most random stuff: play music, cook, scavenge hunt... Something completely irrelevant to what we do on a daily basis.
Do you see this at your company as well? How do you deal with it? I understand that we can be supportive of each other, but to me it almost comes across like people have given up on their personal lives and now need to somehow compensate for it at work.
I love the work that I get to do on a daily basis, but these work events drive me nuts.