Chrome will bring about the ICT revolution in schools(blogs.computerworlduk.com)
blogs.computerworlduk.com
Chrome will bring about the ICT revolution in schools
http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/spannermans-edublog/2011/05/chrome-will-bring-about-the-ict-revolution-in-schools/index.htm
2 comments
Google is a lot better at maintenance than any school sysadmin will ever be. And they've got the infrastructure for it, too.
As for working offline, the offline-capable version of Mail, Calendar and Docs is coming soon. http://techcrunch.com/2011/05/11/offline-gmail/
As for working offline, the offline-capable version of Mail, Calendar and Docs is coming soon. http://techcrunch.com/2011/05/11/offline-gmail/
Google is a lot better at maintenance than any school sysadmin will ever be.
Not necessarily. Even Premium (i.e. PAID) Google Apps users have had issues with feedback/error resolution with things like missing/corrupted docs, and there is nothing more they can do. When I worked in the IT Dept. of a Tertiary education institute, it was not unheard of for students/staff to contact the department manager if they were not satisfied, or even write to the Minister for the Education Department.
If they did the same thing under a Google/Netbook setup, there is nothing to say the IT department (which will _STILL_ be required, they will just have their hands tied behind their back in terms of what they can do) could do _ANYTHING_ about the problem.
Not necessarily. Even Premium (i.e. PAID) Google Apps users have had issues with feedback/error resolution with things like missing/corrupted docs, and there is nothing more they can do. When I worked in the IT Dept. of a Tertiary education institute, it was not unheard of for students/staff to contact the department manager if they were not satisfied, or even write to the Minister for the Education Department.
If they did the same thing under a Google/Netbook setup, there is nothing to say the IT department (which will _STILL_ be required, they will just have their hands tied behind their back in terms of what they can do) could do _ANYTHING_ about the problem.
And when things went missing or corrupted at the IT Dept, did you have a better success rate than Google at recovering the items?
Did you have a lower corruption/loss rate?
Google is huge, and a few problems are going to happen... And they'll be blown out of proportion. Without actual numbers to show the reliability, your guess is as good as mine about how reliable it is.
The fact that you can't get in touch with a Google engineer and hold them personally responsible doesn't mean anything. The document is just as lost either way.
Did you have a lower corruption/loss rate?
Google is huge, and a few problems are going to happen... And they'll be blown out of proportion. Without actual numbers to show the reliability, your guess is as good as mine about how reliable it is.
The fact that you can't get in touch with a Google engineer and hold them personally responsible doesn't mean anything. The document is just as lost either way.
And when things went missing or corrupted at the IT Dept, did you have a better success rate than Google at recovering the items?
Well we could tell the person, right then and there that we are working on it, so they know their problem is being looked at, and we knew the details of our backup schedule, because we controlled it.
Hell, for a simple "i deleted this by accident" problem, we could often retrieve it with a rightclick before the disk was purged, and if it was already purged or the document corrupted, we just went to the tape backups.
Can you tell me what Google's backup plan is? Do they even have backups for the stuff in Google Docs/Gmail? Are those backups available to free users? How long are old backups kept? What is the response time for a file retrieval request?
* The fact that you can't get in touch with a Google engineer and hold them personally responsible doesn't mean anything*
it's not about holding an engineer personally responsible, it's about transparency of the service. if you ask a (decent) IT department about their backup schedule, they will probably tell you, happily, when files are backed up and how long for, and how long it takes to retrieve them and how often they're checked for consistency.
Well we could tell the person, right then and there that we are working on it, so they know their problem is being looked at, and we knew the details of our backup schedule, because we controlled it.
Hell, for a simple "i deleted this by accident" problem, we could often retrieve it with a rightclick before the disk was purged, and if it was already purged or the document corrupted, we just went to the tape backups.
Can you tell me what Google's backup plan is? Do they even have backups for the stuff in Google Docs/Gmail? Are those backups available to free users? How long are old backups kept? What is the response time for a file retrieval request?
* The fact that you can't get in touch with a Google engineer and hold them personally responsible doesn't mean anything*
it's not about holding an engineer personally responsible, it's about transparency of the service. if you ask a (decent) IT department about their backup schedule, they will probably tell you, happily, when files are backed up and how long for, and how long it takes to retrieve them and how often they're checked for consistency.
With Google, I don't have to care how often they are backed up, or when. If a file is missing or corrupt, they deal with it automatically. I don't have to notify them.
And if a file is unrecoverable, there's no point in contacting them.
It appears the only thing gained by having a local IT Dept is being able to un-delete things you accidentally deleted. In this day and age, I solve that by just not deleting things. Google solves it by having a 'trash can' concept where you can undelete it yourself.
And if a file is unrecoverable, there's no point in contacting them.
It appears the only thing gained by having a local IT Dept is being able to un-delete things you accidentally deleted. In this day and age, I solve that by just not deleting things. Google solves it by having a 'trash can' concept where you can undelete it yourself.
>>Oh of course, a student waiting a few seconds to logon to a server is clearly wasting too much of their time,
No, but setting up several hundred new freshman every year is a pain in the ass. One that took my school atleast a week to finish up when they did it by a (poorly written, im sure) batch script. Besides, one of the most important points of computers is automation. If adding a new system removes even 15 seconds from every new user, that can add up rather quickly in a large school.
>>and IT departments are just going to _love_ the loss of control over the devices they currently have.
What? What control do they loose are you referring to?
>Because the web apps that a netbook uses, are mythical beasts that have no licensing or maintenance requirements, and store data down gumdrop lane, because they're powered by the good thoughts of Google users, not physical servers?
have you been to a high school in the last ~5 years? Mine probably had ~90% uptime. Meaning it was down/unavailable for use 10% of the time. Multiple hours, almost every night. Godawful. Google is unarguably one of the most reliable web services there is, so, while the author was being a bit hyperbolic, it is almost certainly a stepup from any non-private middle/high school I've ever seen.
Seriously. its a good deal.
No, but setting up several hundred new freshman every year is a pain in the ass. One that took my school atleast a week to finish up when they did it by a (poorly written, im sure) batch script. Besides, one of the most important points of computers is automation. If adding a new system removes even 15 seconds from every new user, that can add up rather quickly in a large school.
>>and IT departments are just going to _love_ the loss of control over the devices they currently have.
What? What control do they loose are you referring to?
>Because the web apps that a netbook uses, are mythical beasts that have no licensing or maintenance requirements, and store data down gumdrop lane, because they're powered by the good thoughts of Google users, not physical servers?
have you been to a high school in the last ~5 years? Mine probably had ~90% uptime. Meaning it was down/unavailable for use 10% of the time. Multiple hours, almost every night. Godawful. Google is unarguably one of the most reliable web services there is, so, while the author was being a bit hyperbolic, it is almost certainly a stepup from any non-private middle/high school I've ever seen.
Seriously. its a good deal.
No, but setting up several hundred new freshman every year is a pain in the ass. One that took my school atleast a week to finish up when they did it by a (poorly written, im sure) batch script. Besides, one of the most important points of computers is automation.
I worked in a department that had a statewide eDirectory (45+ campuses spread across across hundreds of KMs), with students created every night. At the beginning of semesters, it would be creating thousands of new accounts every night. It had a few hiccups, sure, but it was automated. How do you think the Google Apps accounts are going to be setup? Google isn't some magical beast that telepathically knows all the students in a school.
Just because the IT at the school you were at was run by idiots doesn't mean they all are.
* What? What control do they loose are you referring to? *
When you manage services locally - i.e. desktop/laptops with directory services, file&print, email handled internally, YOU (that is, IT) decides what users can do. They can stop users from installing random Apps, or visitng porn/non-educational sites, and do things like prevent students from printing war and peace fifty times just for giggles.
* have you been to a high school in the last ~5 years? Mine probably had ~90% uptime. * again, one bad school doesn't mean the rest are the same. Multiple hours of downtime per night is not the norm - we didn't even have that kind of downtime when we migrated every single networked device in the state into a new Directory Services tree. Sounds like your school needs new IT staff, not an external provider. Incompetent staff will f*ck up anything they're given.
I worked in a department that had a statewide eDirectory (45+ campuses spread across across hundreds of KMs), with students created every night. At the beginning of semesters, it would be creating thousands of new accounts every night. It had a few hiccups, sure, but it was automated. How do you think the Google Apps accounts are going to be setup? Google isn't some magical beast that telepathically knows all the students in a school.
Just because the IT at the school you were at was run by idiots doesn't mean they all are.
* What? What control do they loose are you referring to? *
When you manage services locally - i.e. desktop/laptops with directory services, file&print, email handled internally, YOU (that is, IT) decides what users can do. They can stop users from installing random Apps, or visitng porn/non-educational sites, and do things like prevent students from printing war and peace fifty times just for giggles.
* have you been to a high school in the last ~5 years? Mine probably had ~90% uptime. * again, one bad school doesn't mean the rest are the same. Multiple hours of downtime per night is not the norm - we didn't even have that kind of downtime when we migrated every single networked device in the state into a new Directory Services tree. Sounds like your school needs new IT staff, not an external provider. Incompetent staff will f*ck up anything they're given.
>>How do you think the Google Apps accounts are going to be setup? Google isn't some magical beast that telepathically knows all the students in a school.
Haha, I know they are not. I am saying that often school IT departments are underfunded and understaffed and would be relieved to have people that are more capable handeling it for them. Our It head was also a gym teacher.
>>When you manage services locally - i.e. desktop/laptops with directory services, file&print, email handled internally, YOU (that is, IT) decides what users can do. They can stop users from installing random Apps, or visitng porn/non-educational sites, and do things like prevent students from printing war and peace fifty times just for giggles.
Well apps are a nonissue since it is chromeos, and only has one app. I thought I had heard of filtering options for enterprise/education customers but I can't find the article saying so. Acting on the assumption that it would be filterable, are there any other objections
>>Sounds like your school needs new IT staff, not an external provider. Incompetent staff will f*ck up anything they're given.
Completely agreed, as I said the head was also the gym teacher. I am sure everyone would love to have a better system in place, but it is not economically viable on he budget given. The relative low entry cost and high uptime of google services would certainly be an option though. But how is new it staff !== external provider?
Haha, I know they are not. I am saying that often school IT departments are underfunded and understaffed and would be relieved to have people that are more capable handeling it for them. Our It head was also a gym teacher.
>>When you manage services locally - i.e. desktop/laptops with directory services, file&print, email handled internally, YOU (that is, IT) decides what users can do. They can stop users from installing random Apps, or visitng porn/non-educational sites, and do things like prevent students from printing war and peace fifty times just for giggles.
Well apps are a nonissue since it is chromeos, and only has one app. I thought I had heard of filtering options for enterprise/education customers but I can't find the article saying so. Acting on the assumption that it would be filterable, are there any other objections
>>Sounds like your school needs new IT staff, not an external provider. Incompetent staff will f*ck up anything they're given.
Completely agreed, as I said the head was also the gym teacher. I am sure everyone would love to have a better system in place, but it is not economically viable on he budget given. The relative low entry cost and high uptime of google services would certainly be an option though. But how is new it staff !== external provider?
* would be relieved to have people that are more capable handeling it for them*
Google isn't going to send staff out to your school to create/manage the accounts etc. Someone will still need to do that.
* I thought I had heard of filtering options for enterprise/education customers but I can't find the article saying so. Acting on the assumption that it would be filterable, are there any other objections* For filtering to be of any use, you also need to be able to log who tried to access what - because a lot of the filtering process is checking access logs for undesired sites.
So lets say you can use an authenticated proxy to log that - you then need to have an authentication system for the proxy server. So now you have a list of students, staff, etc in your local LDAP (i.e. AD/eDirectory/etc) and a mirrored list in Google Apps so they can use that. But then you have to explain to the users that the passwords aren't in sync, and that if they want to change their proxy password you have to provide some kind of web interface for them, because they aren't authenticating the device via Directory Services, which provides a password-change/password expired/etc mechanism for desktop OS'.
* But how is new it staff !== external provider*
If you hire IT staff and then tell them they are there to "support" Google Apps/Gmail, if they are any good they will politely tell you to stick your job. If they want to stay, you don't really want them.
Google isn't going to send staff out to your school to create/manage the accounts etc. Someone will still need to do that.
* I thought I had heard of filtering options for enterprise/education customers but I can't find the article saying so. Acting on the assumption that it would be filterable, are there any other objections* For filtering to be of any use, you also need to be able to log who tried to access what - because a lot of the filtering process is checking access logs for undesired sites.
So lets say you can use an authenticated proxy to log that - you then need to have an authentication system for the proxy server. So now you have a list of students, staff, etc in your local LDAP (i.e. AD/eDirectory/etc) and a mirrored list in Google Apps so they can use that. But then you have to explain to the users that the passwords aren't in sync, and that if they want to change their proxy password you have to provide some kind of web interface for them, because they aren't authenticating the device via Directory Services, which provides a password-change/password expired/etc mechanism for desktop OS'.
* But how is new it staff !== external provider*
If you hire IT staff and then tell them they are there to "support" Google Apps/Gmail, if they are any good they will politely tell you to stick your job. If they want to stay, you don't really want them.
>>Google isn't going to send staff out to your school to create/manage the accounts etc. Someone will still need to do that.
They have api's and forms to easily create this. Its must cheaper than rewriting your own system.
>>So lets say you can use an authenticated proxy to log that - you then need to have an authentication system for the proxy server. So now you have a list of students, staff, etc in your local LDAP (i.e. AD/eDirectory/etc) and a mirrored list in Google Apps so they can use that. But then you have to explain to the users that the passwords aren't in sync, and that if they want to change their proxy password you have to provide some kind of web interface for them, because they aren't authenticating the device via Directory Services, which provides a password-change/password expired/etc mechanism for desktop OS'.
I know I asked you to extrapolate on an assumption, but I can't image a chromeos implementation requiring an LDAP server for this sort of work. Simply hardcoding a list of blocked sites and IPs into any non-admins account would be fairly trivial to implement. But yes I agree, if you did this by means of a complicated solution it would be complicated.
>>If you hire IT staff and then tell them they are there to "support" Google Apps/Gmail, if they are any good they will politely tell you to stick your job. If they want to stay, you don't really want them.
The point is the complete reduction/need for a full time IT person. Google also offers 24/7 phone support for all education and corporate subscribers. A "computer guy" and these services would work fine for a majority of people.
Ultimately, is this a silver bullet for all schools? No. But Silver bullets don't exist. This is something that takes a lot of load and setup/maintenance from the schools. And in the end I fail to see how this could be anything but a positive thing.
They have api's and forms to easily create this. Its must cheaper than rewriting your own system.
>>So lets say you can use an authenticated proxy to log that - you then need to have an authentication system for the proxy server. So now you have a list of students, staff, etc in your local LDAP (i.e. AD/eDirectory/etc) and a mirrored list in Google Apps so they can use that. But then you have to explain to the users that the passwords aren't in sync, and that if they want to change their proxy password you have to provide some kind of web interface for them, because they aren't authenticating the device via Directory Services, which provides a password-change/password expired/etc mechanism for desktop OS'.
I know I asked you to extrapolate on an assumption, but I can't image a chromeos implementation requiring an LDAP server for this sort of work. Simply hardcoding a list of blocked sites and IPs into any non-admins account would be fairly trivial to implement. But yes I agree, if you did this by means of a complicated solution it would be complicated.
>>If you hire IT staff and then tell them they are there to "support" Google Apps/Gmail, if they are any good they will politely tell you to stick your job. If they want to stay, you don't really want them.
The point is the complete reduction/need for a full time IT person. Google also offers 24/7 phone support for all education and corporate subscribers. A "computer guy" and these services would work fine for a majority of people.
Ultimately, is this a silver bullet for all schools? No. But Silver bullets don't exist. This is something that takes a lot of load and setup/maintenance from the schools. And in the end I fail to see how this could be anything but a positive thing.
To what degree does chromeOS and google docs contribute to the google intelligence/profiling that they do on every user for ad targeting? Does the educational program opt out of it? Over a few years time would google be developing a full profile of the student including what classes they took when, and perhaps even how well they're doing through reading level analysis etc? Is that kind of thing something we really want to push on our children?
With auto-saving, no more losing of USB sticks, no more 12 min network bootups, the ability to share files and fewer confusing features most of the hassle of ICT in schools is eliminated.
Oh of course, a student waiting a few seconds to logon to a server is clearly wasting too much of their time, and IT departments are just going to _love_ the loss of control over the devices they currently have.
"auto-saving" and "no more losing USB sticks" in the cotext of Google Docs, means a complete lack of control over the backup of said documents, and inability to work on said documents offline.
No software licences, no maintenance technicians (no viruses no, disk quotas, no application/file servers, no software images).
Because the web apps that a netbook uses, are mythical beasts that have no licensing or maintenance requirements, and store data down gumdrop lane, because they're powered by the good thoughts of Google users, not physical servers?