GitHub is facing employee backlash(businessinsider.com)
businessinsider.com
GitHub is facing employee backlash
https://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-github-backlash-jewish-employee-termination-2021-1
14 comments
Man, it seems like the minimums for "fireable offenses" are getting lower and lower there. I lost my job there for referencing the song "WAP" during a small internal presentation three times (Naming it Wicked Automated Premium to get the name to be WAP and saying "I hope you brought a bucket and a mop because we're cleaning up the competition" and "And now Megan Thee Stallion should rap something dirty") and I thought that was at least deserving of a warning first.
No offense, but it sounds like you didn’t know your audience.
I have a theory that for a lot of companies Slack is a negative ROI. I find myself having to turn Slack off to avoid being constantly interrupted by notifications. But on the flipside I also find myself having to go back and read through tons of messages incase there are a few important messages that I need to know about.
Slack is just faster, less effective email.
“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”
Slack is just faster, less effective email.
“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”
Slack was fun at first, then it became a distraction, now it's blocked on our networks.
I think its entirely dependent on how the slack is structured. Its great for quick communication amongst a small team on the same project and near essential if the team is remote. On the other hand if every PM in the company can ping engineers on a whim then obviously there can be problems.
Out little company has a "no drama" policy - highly recommend it. It gives people guidance on what is acceptable behavior at work, and at the same time gives a reason if you accept that drama distracts from the work
I feel like I'm in the minority here, but I'd like to start a discussion about this! Could you elaborate some? Judging just from your one liner, this sounds like it is ripe for misuse.
Dumb examples off the top of my head:
- Lets pretend my spouse died in an accident. Everyone is understanding and I'm afforded whatever time-off I need. While I'm out, someone quits and my boss asks (they don't assume I will say yes) me if I can be in the office a couple hours on Friday to help with an important deployment. I say yes, but an hour in I spontaneously start crying at my desk. This makes it difficult for my neighbor to get their work done. Would I be breaking the no drama policy?
- What if instead of spouse's death, war erupts in my country-of-origin and I may never be able to return there. A coworker asks what's up and instead of saying "nada," I tell them and it makes them uncomfortable.
- What if I was at a rally for $opposite_political_thing and a coworker sees me on the news and asks me about it. I tell them, and contrary to what I think I know about them, they don't react well to my response and feel really uncomfortable?
Clearly we've got more and less borderline cases, but from the right purview all of the examples could be considered drama. "No drama" feels like the HR equivalent to "your taillight is out."
How does your office decide what is drama? What if you don't think it is drama? Is there some type of arbitration? What happens if you win your arbitration case, but that spoils the office?
Sorry for all the questions, I'm genuinely interested.
Dumb examples off the top of my head:
- Lets pretend my spouse died in an accident. Everyone is understanding and I'm afforded whatever time-off I need. While I'm out, someone quits and my boss asks (they don't assume I will say yes) me if I can be in the office a couple hours on Friday to help with an important deployment. I say yes, but an hour in I spontaneously start crying at my desk. This makes it difficult for my neighbor to get their work done. Would I be breaking the no drama policy?
- What if instead of spouse's death, war erupts in my country-of-origin and I may never be able to return there. A coworker asks what's up and instead of saying "nada," I tell them and it makes them uncomfortable.
- What if I was at a rally for $opposite_political_thing and a coworker sees me on the news and asks me about it. I tell them, and contrary to what I think I know about them, they don't react well to my response and feel really uncomfortable?
Clearly we've got more and less borderline cases, but from the right purview all of the examples could be considered drama. "No drama" feels like the HR equivalent to "your taillight is out."
How does your office decide what is drama? What if you don't think it is drama? Is there some type of arbitration? What happens if you win your arbitration case, but that spoils the office?
Sorry for all the questions, I'm genuinely interested.
Perhaps better phrasing would be "No unnecessary drama"
If civil war breaks out - just say "my family is in danger and I need help"
Counter intuitively it can really help in sticky situations: I'm white and one of my employees is black. He didn't get a raise.
Instead of getting mad at me because he didn't get a raise, he put in our issue tracker - "Employees don't know how to calculate their pay range"
We now have an open skill system and and open salary system. We all know why each of us is paid our various rares and all of us know how to get to the next level.
We're also allowed to make mistakes - because there's not much drama, when some real drama comes up, we can deal with it.
One of my employees has nervous breakdowns now and then - not a problem because she's not having a breakdown while someone is kicking the copier and some else is playing CNN doom-news on their computer.
I can help her because I'm not already tapped out.
If civil war breaks out - just say "my family is in danger and I need help"
Counter intuitively it can really help in sticky situations: I'm white and one of my employees is black. He didn't get a raise.
Instead of getting mad at me because he didn't get a raise, he put in our issue tracker - "Employees don't know how to calculate their pay range"
We now have an open skill system and and open salary system. We all know why each of us is paid our various rares and all of us know how to get to the next level.
We're also allowed to make mistakes - because there's not much drama, when some real drama comes up, we can deal with it.
One of my employees has nervous breakdowns now and then - not a problem because she's not having a breakdown while someone is kicking the copier and some else is playing CNN doom-news on their computer.
I can help her because I'm not already tapped out.
Wow. I really like that ticketing system resolution. I'm going to keep that in my back pocket. Seems like it would really help having a formal and public (to the office) way of handling sticky situations.
I can tell you see the policy as a net positive. Have you noticed other employees didn't like policy as much? What were their grievances with it?
I can tell you see the policy as a net positive. Have you noticed other employees didn't like policy as much? What were their grievances with it?
You have very thoughtful questions: Nobody has complained - though if they used the issue tracker, we all would find it meta-amusing.
In my opinion, the issue system needs to be used all the time for everything - so that nobody feels that thyr're the only squeaky wheel.
It does require trust however. We have been known to punt an issue to let us all collect our thoughts.
I know the system keeps me from micro-managing, keeps one of my guys from just complaining (we ask for a potential solution), and keeps another employee from feeling un-empowered.
The only bad second-order effect I've seen is sometimes people wait to fix simple problems - they tend to it in the system instead of just fixing it.
But... Usually I'm wrong, the issue usually is deeper upon reflection.
In my opinion, the issue system needs to be used all the time for everything - so that nobody feels that thyr're the only squeaky wheel.
It does require trust however. We have been known to punt an issue to let us all collect our thoughts.
I know the system keeps me from micro-managing, keeps one of my guys from just complaining (we ask for a potential solution), and keeps another employee from feeling un-empowered.
The only bad second-order effect I've seen is sometimes people wait to fix simple problems - they tend to it in the system instead of just fixing it.
But... Usually I'm wrong, the issue usually is deeper upon reflection.
They should indeed be facing this backlash.
Assuming that all the facts stated are true, this is some bottom tier management. What a way to take a story that had nothing to do with GitHub and make themselves the villain of this story.
What were they thinking? I'm having a really hard time imagining how they thought this would go well.
What were they thinking? I'm having a really hard time imagining how they thought this would go well.
Maybe what is covered in the article isn't the full story. Now that this story is public, I wonder if Github will go public with their explanation about it or they try to explain it internally.
At least form outside it seems like they pay some attention to "inclusion" and "diversity". So it shouldn't be that simple. https://github.com/about/diversity
I would give them the benefit of the doubt until they get the chance to explain it.
At least form outside it seems like they pay some attention to "inclusion" and "diversity". So it shouldn't be that simple. https://github.com/about/diversity
I would give them the benefit of the doubt until they get the chance to explain it.
People's minds are the new real estate. The power that the traditional media and social media have over people's mind seems to be quite alarming. While something is being pushed by the media it is hotly debated, and as soon as the media stops covering it POOF the heated debates stop. Data is being collected about people, passed through some sort of psychological processing and the results used to persuade people. How do we protect ourselves, our communities, and our countries from this?
It's not new at all. This is what religion and other ideological systems have literally fought wars over for millennia: people's minds
I think it's important to note exactly why it's facing backlash: firing a Jewish employee for accurately saying that some of the people involved in the protest and terrorist attack at the Capitol were Nazis.
We know it's accurate because they brag about it [1]. This isn't hard.
[1] https://www.vice.com/en/article/93wnja/neo-nazis-boast-about...
We know it's accurate because they brag about it [1]. This isn't hard.
[1] https://www.vice.com/en/article/93wnja/neo-nazis-boast-about...
Hypothetically speaking, by that logic a black rapper who talks about being a gangster would be reason enough to assume that other black people around him are also gangsters. So if an employee said of a group of black rappers "the gangsters are out today" under your logic it would be wrong to fire that person, even though they couldn't possibly know what that person was, is, or wants to be.
You're assuming guilt by association, and probably falling to Godwin's law. There's a difference between what someone may be, and what you may say in the workplace. The fact that the person who said is is Jewish means nothing, it's only a distraction from that an employee referred to a group of people as Nazi's and the employer took a offense and..the employee is looking for a new job.
You can't fire someone for behavior and excuse it in the other simply because you agree with their politics.
You're assuming guilt by association, and probably falling to Godwin's law. There's a difference between what someone may be, and what you may say in the workplace. The fact that the person who said is is Jewish means nothing, it's only a distraction from that an employee referred to a group of people as Nazi's and the employer took a offense and..the employee is looking for a new job.
You can't fire someone for behavior and excuse it in the other simply because you agree with their politics.
Lots of people — especially Jews! — have spent enough time on this to figure out indications that someone might be a Nazi. These guys looked like Nazis, and guess what: they turned out to be Nazis.
It’s not “assuming guilt by association”, it’s pattern recognition.
It’s not “assuming guilt by association”, it’s pattern recognition.
I am going to make a suggestion that it most like not the generalization language which was used but the events which followed:
> "A coworker was quick to criticize the employee for using divisive rhetoric, igniting a firestorm of internal debate, with many jumping in to take sides. That same day, HR reprimanded the employee, who is Jewish, for using the word "Nazi" in the workplace."
The disruption in the workplace is probably enough to get HRs attention.
Now to answer your hypothetical question, I think the word Nazi has deeper connotations than the use of "gangster", but in either case I don't think the words should lead to termination. To quote a man I do not like at all, 'We have a snowflake generation', Dan Pena.
> "A coworker was quick to criticize the employee for using divisive rhetoric, igniting a firestorm of internal debate, with many jumping in to take sides. That same day, HR reprimanded the employee, who is Jewish, for using the word "Nazi" in the workplace."
The disruption in the workplace is probably enough to get HRs attention.
Now to answer your hypothetical question, I think the word Nazi has deeper connotations than the use of "gangster", but in either case I don't think the words should lead to termination. To quote a man I do not like at all, 'We have a snowflake generation', Dan Pena.
I don't get why a company would fire someone over this.
Some of the people storming the Capitol were definitely neo nazis. Not the majority, but still.
Can you not call a spade a spade anymore?
I think what happened here is a Trump fan got butthurt over his comment and fired him. That's a cause for wrongful dismissal, right?
Firing anybody over their political beliefs is pretty dumb.
Some of the people storming the Capitol were definitely neo nazis. Not the majority, but still.
Can you not call a spade a spade anymore?
I think what happened here is a Trump fan got butthurt over his comment and fired him. That's a cause for wrongful dismissal, right?
Firing anybody over their political beliefs is pretty dumb.
>Can you not call a spade a spade anymore?
No. We have to make sure Neo-Confederates / Neo-Nazis / white supremacists are welcome at our company too. No one can get their feelings hurt even if those ideas are antithetical to our morals.
As long as the white supremacist doesn't audibly say he is purposefully passing over non-whites for promotions and raises, it's completely ok by the company.
No. We have to make sure Neo-Confederates / Neo-Nazis / white supremacists are welcome at our company too. No one can get their feelings hurt even if those ideas are antithetical to our morals.
As long as the white supremacist doesn't audibly say he is purposefully passing over non-whites for promotions and raises, it's completely ok by the company.
i used to come to HN precisely to avoid this sort of stuff, that anyone can read in a newspaper. jews vs nazis at github? really? is this gratifying your intellectual curiosity???
Github is a very important tech organization, and this is a tech board.
How lucky for you to be able to avoid these topics, since it is apparently not your life being threatened.
Should we pretend it's not happening? Can we?
"GitHub is facing employee backlash after the firing of a Jewish employee who suggested 'Nazis are about' on the day of the US Capitol siege"
These employee "backlashes" are increasingly toothless. It was only a couple of weeks ago that a Google employee published a diatribe in Wired demanding that Timnit Gebru be rehired, promoted, and an indoctrination program be forced on employees. Google's response? Nothing. Zilch. What was the fallout? Nothing, Zilch. Has anyone responded to, or even really cared about what Google's "union" is saying? I haven't even seen as much as a "we acknowledge your statement" from Google's execs.
Typing things doesn't matter anymore! You have to be willing to act. Both Pichai and Nadella know that no one is really going to walk away from their plum, very-well-paid positions over a political issue...and they're basically right.
These employee "backlashes" are shaping up to be nothing more than Scream Therapy and are being tuned out.
BETTER DO WHAT WE SAY OR WE'LL GO BACK TO OUR DESKS AND WORK QUIETLY!
Typing things doesn't matter anymore! You have to be willing to act. Both Pichai and Nadella know that no one is really going to walk away from their plum, very-well-paid positions over a political issue...and they're basically right.
These employee "backlashes" are shaping up to be nothing more than Scream Therapy and are being tuned out.
BETTER DO WHAT WE SAY OR WE'LL GO BACK TO OUR DESKS AND WORK QUIETLY!
Prefacing this by saying I disagree with the protest:
> "I did not know that, as a Jew, it would be so polarizing to say this word,"
Saying this word when referring to a large protest of Americans for a cause you disagree with in your work Slack channel? Statistically, it's likely that several people in the channel either agreed with the protest, or at the least, have relatives who did. You essentially just called coworkers and their families Nazis.
> In his final Slack message to coworkers, the employee said that his experience shows that the tech industry, and GitHub in particular, needs to be held more accountable for improving diversity and inclusion at the leadership level.
I'm fairly sure that GitHub's own CEO is Jewish, and would see this employee's perspective perfectly well. I don't think this is an accountability issue so much as a social-cues-in-the-workplace issue.
> "I did not know that, as a Jew, it would be so polarizing to say this word,"
Saying this word when referring to a large protest of Americans for a cause you disagree with in your work Slack channel? Statistically, it's likely that several people in the channel either agreed with the protest, or at the least, have relatives who did. You essentially just called coworkers and their families Nazis.
> In his final Slack message to coworkers, the employee said that his experience shows that the tech industry, and GitHub in particular, needs to be held more accountable for improving diversity and inclusion at the leadership level.
I'm fairly sure that GitHub's own CEO is Jewish, and would see this employee's perspective perfectly well. I don't think this is an accountability issue so much as a social-cues-in-the-workplace issue.
I mean, there were literal Nazis there. Several people were wearing "6 million was not enough" and "Camp Auschwitz Staff" shirts.
At a certain point, you have to be utterly delusional to not admit that there are at least some Nazis out and about.
At a certain point, you have to be utterly delusional to not admit that there are at least some Nazis out and about.
I am honestly so tired of this hand wringing over calling things what they are.
It's going to be uncomfortable but this isn't as simple as pro-life and pro-choice. This is about the very nature of our country and a party wanting to throw it all out.
If you are uncomfortable with an employee saying the truth (Many seditionists wore Nazi / white supremacist apparel and were carrying Confederate flags!), you should examine your own beliefs and whether you are either a white supremacist or a sympathizer.
This isn't about being "alarmist" or a "snowflake liberal", this about saying what we _literally_ see. That's a Nazi flag, that's a Nazi; "those are Nazis". Pretending like we all need to hold hands and coddle _literal Nazis' feelings_ is absurdist and socially + morally wrong.
If you are uncomfortable with, again, LITERAL Neo-Nazis and white supremacists being called what they are, you should be the one getting fired.
It's going to be uncomfortable but this isn't as simple as pro-life and pro-choice. This is about the very nature of our country and a party wanting to throw it all out.
If you are uncomfortable with an employee saying the truth (Many seditionists wore Nazi / white supremacist apparel and were carrying Confederate flags!), you should examine your own beliefs and whether you are either a white supremacist or a sympathizer.
This isn't about being "alarmist" or a "snowflake liberal", this about saying what we _literally_ see. That's a Nazi flag, that's a Nazi; "those are Nazis". Pretending like we all need to hold hands and coddle _literal Nazis' feelings_ is absurdist and socially + morally wrong.
If you are uncomfortable with, again, LITERAL Neo-Nazis and white supremacists being called what they are, you should be the one getting fired.
> This about the very nature of our country and a party wanting to throw it all out.
I agree, and I'm firmly in the camp that the election must be respected, and that it would be the death of America as we know it to overturn an election like this.
> If you are uncomfortable with an employee saying the truth
Did you read the article and the phrasing of his comment? This appeared to be during the initial peaceful protest; they were not all Nazis, and I doubt that even 0.1% of them were. Read the room, it's a workplace!
I would have no problem with seeing his take on Twitter, but the workplace? I equally don't expect someone to be able to go around my work's Slack saying "watch out for the Black nationalists" and "watch out for the violent Bolshevik Commies" because they saw a raised fist and a hammer-and-sickle in the crowd at a Black Lives Matter protest.
I agree, and I'm firmly in the camp that the election must be respected, and that it would be the death of America as we know it to overturn an election like this.
> If you are uncomfortable with an employee saying the truth
Did you read the article and the phrasing of his comment? This appeared to be during the initial peaceful protest; they were not all Nazis, and I doubt that even 0.1% of them were. Read the room, it's a workplace!
I would have no problem with seeing his take on Twitter, but the workplace? I equally don't expect someone to be able to go around my work's Slack saying "watch out for the Black nationalists" and "watch out for the violent Bolshevik Commies" because they saw a raised fist and a hammer-and-sickle in the crowd at a Black Lives Matter protest.
> Did you read the article and the phrasing of his comment? This appeared to be during the initial peaceful protest;
Article:
> he sent the original message because he wanted to warn people to be careful: *The mob rampaging* through the US Capitol
Article:
> he sent the original message because he wanted to warn people to be careful: *The mob rampaging* through the US Capitol
I work at GitHub: the comment was made after the Capitol had been breached.
>This appeared to be during the initial peaceful protest; they were not all Nazis, and I doubt that even 0.1% of them were. Read the room.
If I show up at a protest and someone is carrying a Confederate flag, I am leaving. Full stop. No more excuses, no more "but some are good people!".
If you are hanging with Neo-Confederates in political spaces, you are at best a sympathizer and at worst a silent Neo-Confederate.
If I see a neo-Confederate at a political rally toting a Confederate flag and I am in that group, I am going straight home and evaluating my opinions.
If I show up at a protest and someone is carrying a Confederate flag, I am leaving. Full stop. No more excuses, no more "but some are good people!".
If you are hanging with Neo-Confederates in political spaces, you are at best a sympathizer and at worst a silent Neo-Confederate.
If I see a neo-Confederate at a political rally toting a Confederate flag and I am in that group, I am going straight home and evaluating my opinions.
If you march alongside a nazi, you are one. If you support a nazi, you are one. If you support a president who separates children from their parents and puts them in prison camps you are one. If, for all that, you are willing to steal an election and terrorize your elected officials, build gallows outside the building and enter if with plastic handcuffs, you most definitely are one.
I won't go through all the effort of sourcing as this is easily searchable, but:
> If you support a president who separates children from their parents
Obama's Homeland Security secretary, Johnson, confirmed with NPR's Mary Louise Kelly that this predates the Trump administration.
> terrorize your elected officials
AOC has said that the whole point of protesting is to "make people uncomfortable." A professor at Wellesley wrote an article in Slate that "Violence can be an important tool in protests." The destruction of government buildings has certainly occurred in recent protests, there are dozens of instances of this.
> build gallows outside the building
Even the irony in this! Black Lives Matter protestors built a guillotine in front of Jeff Bezos' DC home.
I support Black Lives Matter to be clear, but obviously this whole "Nazi by association" schtick leads to the conclusion that we would all, in fact, be Nazis.
> If you support a president who separates children from their parents
Obama's Homeland Security secretary, Johnson, confirmed with NPR's Mary Louise Kelly that this predates the Trump administration.
> terrorize your elected officials
AOC has said that the whole point of protesting is to "make people uncomfortable." A professor at Wellesley wrote an article in Slate that "Violence can be an important tool in protests." The destruction of government buildings has certainly occurred in recent protests, there are dozens of instances of this.
> build gallows outside the building
Even the irony in this! Black Lives Matter protestors built a guillotine in front of Jeff Bezos' DC home.
I support Black Lives Matter to be clear, but obviously this whole "Nazi by association" schtick leads to the conclusion that we would all, in fact, be Nazis.
> Obama's Homeland Security secretary, Johnson, confirmed with NPR's Mary Louise Kelly that this predates the Trump administration.
Do you have numbers on how many children were separated from their parents? How many parents were repatriated without their children? How many kids died in custody and of how many they lost track of?
> Black Lives Matter protestors built a guillotine in front of Jeff Bezos' DC home.
Did they also invade Bezos' home with the intention to drag him out?
> obviously this whole "Nazi by association" schtick leads to the conclusion that we would all, in fact, be Nazis.
When you think about that, do you feel comfortable at endorsing the policies that caused kids to be permanently separated from their parents? Kids that died without the comfort of being with their families?
HRW did a report on that https://www.hrw.org/report/2018/02/28/freezer/abusive-condit...
Do you have numbers on how many children were separated from their parents? How many parents were repatriated without their children? How many kids died in custody and of how many they lost track of?
> Black Lives Matter protestors built a guillotine in front of Jeff Bezos' DC home.
Did they also invade Bezos' home with the intention to drag him out?
> obviously this whole "Nazi by association" schtick leads to the conclusion that we would all, in fact, be Nazis.
When you think about that, do you feel comfortable at endorsing the policies that caused kids to be permanently separated from their parents? Kids that died without the comfort of being with their families?
HRW did a report on that https://www.hrw.org/report/2018/02/28/freezer/abusive-condit...
You seem to be implying almost all Americans are Nazis. Most Americans supported Obama or Trump. Both separated children from their parents and out then in prison camps.
It's troubling, but if someone supports a person like him, with all we know now, with parents that were deported without their kids (after doing everything according to international treaties and norms - first enter, then ask for asylum), kids they lost track of and can no longer reconnect with parents, people who died in their custody, the callous inaction in front of a pandemic... With all that, if someone still supports the president, I'll question their character, fiscal policies and tax breaks be damned.
I face a similar issue in my own home country of origin: 58 million people voted for a corrupt ex-military drop out, racist, homophobic, and incompetent beyond belief who's trying to bypass all democratic processes and take over local police forces which overwhelmingly support him. I can't have those 58 million fellow Brazilians in high regard. Even if you say the previous government was corrupt, corruption is much less serious than letting 200 thousand people die while sabotaging emergency healthcare measures so that your possible political opponents in the next presidential election don't get credit.
I face a similar issue in my own home country of origin: 58 million people voted for a corrupt ex-military drop out, racist, homophobic, and incompetent beyond belief who's trying to bypass all democratic processes and take over local police forces which overwhelmingly support him. I can't have those 58 million fellow Brazilians in high regard. Even if you say the previous government was corrupt, corruption is much less serious than letting 200 thousand people die while sabotaging emergency healthcare measures so that your possible political opponents in the next presidential election don't get credit.
The best guess on Wikipedia for attendance at the protest seems to be around 30,000. An upper bound of 0.1% is 30 people.
In addition to the literal neo-Nazis in attendance, there were also plenty of groups — such as Proud Boys — that may not be technically neo-Nazis themselves, but are definitely Nazi adjacent; I don't think it's a particular stretch to put them under the Nazi umbrella.
Given all that, 30 seems like a real lowball.
In addition to the literal neo-Nazis in attendance, there were also plenty of groups — such as Proud Boys — that may not be technically neo-Nazis themselves, but are definitely Nazi adjacent; I don't think it's a particular stretch to put them under the Nazi umbrella.
Given all that, 30 seems like a real lowball.
So, I absolutely do not believe we should go making a "Nazi umbrella" and throwing every anti-socialist, western chauvinist, Republican, etc. into it.
With that said, I agree 30 may seem like a lowball and it possibly is, but I've seen so many cases of people who went to the initial protest being doxed, and it's been some random kind woman from the Bay Area, some random woman who works at a hospital in Massachusetts, and so on. They very much just appear to be regular people brainwashed by Trump and his cronies.
With that said, I agree 30 may seem like a lowball and it possibly is, but I've seen so many cases of people who went to the initial protest being doxed, and it's been some random kind woman from the Bay Area, some random woman who works at a hospital in Massachusetts, and so on. They very much just appear to be regular people brainwashed by Trump and his cronies.
Yes, the word is overused, and I wouldn't apply it to every Republican, anti-socialist, etc. But on the other hand — if Proud Boys say they’re not Nazis, but keep showing up alongside Atomwaffen and Identity Evropa, and some of their members wear 6MWE shirts [1]… at some point, we just have to be like "okay, these people are Nazis."
Because it's a sliding scale, right? And just because there's no single objective line doesn't mean that we have to give up drawing a line entirely.
I'm not giving an opinion on doxxing random people at the protest who weren't involved in the terrorist attack. I'm just saying that it's fair to see the crowd that showed up and say "stay safe homies, Nazis are about." It turned out to be prescient.
[1] https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/proud-boy-6mwe/
Because it's a sliding scale, right? And just because there's no single objective line doesn't mean that we have to give up drawing a line entirely.
I'm not giving an opinion on doxxing random people at the protest who weren't involved in the terrorist attack. I'm just saying that it's fair to see the crowd that showed up and say "stay safe homies, Nazis are about." It turned out to be prescient.
[1] https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/proud-boy-6mwe/