Building a Web Application that makes $500 a Month – Part II(tbbuck.com)
tbbuck.com
Building a Web Application that makes $500 a Month – Part II
http://tbbuck.com/building-a-web-application-that-makes-500-a-month-%E2%80%93-part-ii/
49 comments
Awesome buddy thnx...
Hi everyone,
Author of the blog post here, if you have any questions or feel that I've missed something out, please feel free to ask me :)
Previous discussion of part I is here: http://news.ycombinator.net/item?id=2471130
Cheers, Tom.
Author of the blog post here, if you have any questions or feel that I've missed something out, please feel free to ask me :)
Previous discussion of part I is here: http://news.ycombinator.net/item?id=2471130
Cheers, Tom.
Tom, great series. Quick question -- how do you manage the subscription/billing? You currently have 3 different rates going (the current, and two legacy rates), correct?
Quick question -- how do you manage the subscription/billing
A combination of PayPal and luck :) I originally coded the system to support pricing tiers, so the legacy code supports people being billed at different rates. The only nasty bit is a hack that checks whether the user is on an annual or monthly subscription, and updates their expiry date accordingly.
A combination of PayPal and luck :) I originally coded the system to support pricing tiers, so the legacy code supports people being billed at different rates. The only nasty bit is a hack that checks whether the user is on an annual or monthly subscription, and updates their expiry date accordingly.
I've seen it implemented where a price change is actually a new, separate subscription plan.
So, each plan has an id, and you disallow any new signups for certain plan IDs but still allow them to be active for billing purposes( for older clients).
Only show and allow signups for the new plan IDs.
So, each plan has an id, and you disallow any new signups for certain plan IDs but still allow them to be active for billing purposes( for older clients).
Only show and allow signups for the new plan IDs.
Tom, did you design the site?
How much time do you spend supporting/interacting with your users? Have you had to sell any of them on your product directly?
How much time do you spend supporting/interacting with your users
Typically half an hour a week.
Have you had to sell any of them on your product directly?
Since running, I've had a handful of users contact me before purchasing. I discovered that some of them will try and get you to extend the free trial for a day, a week and then a month at a time, all in promise of an ever-elusive sale. I've also had some arguments with people trying to abuse the offer to bloggers of a free subscription in return for a review. Funnily enough, some of these arguments led to sales :)
Typically half an hour a week.
Have you had to sell any of them on your product directly?
Since running, I've had a handful of users contact me before purchasing. I discovered that some of them will try and get you to extend the free trial for a day, a week and then a month at a time, all in promise of an ever-elusive sale. I've also had some arguments with people trying to abuse the offer to bloggers of a free subscription in return for a review. Funnily enough, some of these arguments led to sales :)
Congratulations. That's a nice milestone to hit, and I'm sure bigger and better things are in your future. Mind if I give some advice (take with a grain of salt)?
1) Welcome to TweetingMachine Discover the Twitter & Facebook tool that's packed with features and free for 10 days! <-- Nothing here provides value to customers. What is the benefit to them of using TweetMachine? "<h1>Get More Customers With Less Work</h1> Manage your Twitter/Facebook campaigns faster. Try free for 10 days!
2) http://tweetingmachine.com/features/schedule_tweets needs more text on it to rank for [schedule tweets]. Ditto for all of your feature pages. Very important: put buttons on these pages leading directly into the free trial, because they will be large entrances into your site. Build links directly to them.
3) Customer personas: explain what this means for small business owners, marketing managers, and social media consultants. Bonus points for cutesy cartoon characters representing them. (It works!)
4) Quicky question: how many of your customers are ladies? Lots, right? If so: watch my presentation about selling to women, with particular regards to pushing emotional buttons and not using screenshots of software because software is boring.
5) "Try for free" should probably be orange (test test test) and you probably want the hero screenshot to link to that, too. If you installed CrazyEgg you would quickly see that it gets clicked more than anything on the page.
1) Welcome to TweetingMachine Discover the Twitter & Facebook tool that's packed with features and free for 10 days! <-- Nothing here provides value to customers. What is the benefit to them of using TweetMachine? "<h1>Get More Customers With Less Work</h1> Manage your Twitter/Facebook campaigns faster. Try free for 10 days!
2) http://tweetingmachine.com/features/schedule_tweets needs more text on it to rank for [schedule tweets]. Ditto for all of your feature pages. Very important: put buttons on these pages leading directly into the free trial, because they will be large entrances into your site. Build links directly to them.
3) Customer personas: explain what this means for small business owners, marketing managers, and social media consultants. Bonus points for cutesy cartoon characters representing them. (It works!)
4) Quicky question: how many of your customers are ladies? Lots, right? If so: watch my presentation about selling to women, with particular regards to pushing emotional buttons and not using screenshots of software because software is boring.
5) "Try for free" should probably be orange (test test test) and you probably want the hero screenshot to link to that, too. If you installed CrazyEgg you would quickly see that it gets clicked more than anything on the page.
Awesome, awesome, awesome advice, thank you! I'm going to get cracking on these ASAP :-D
Oh, and you're quite right about number 4, I'll check out your presentation. One again, thank you for your advice, it's things like these that really make a difference :)
Oh, and you're quite right about number 4, I'll check out your presentation. One again, thank you for your advice, it's things like these that really make a difference :)
it's things like these that really make a difference :)
Hopefully! Depressingly frequently you can do everything right and not see the needle move. If it ends up working out for you, I'd love an email -- that always puts a smile on my face.
Hopefully! Depressingly frequently you can do everything right and not see the needle move. If it ends up working out for you, I'd love an email -- that always puts a smile on my face.
If it ends up working out for you, I'd love an email -- that always puts a smile on my face.
Honestly, if it ends up working out, that's the very least I can do, so absolutely :) Thanks once again!
Honestly, if it ends up working out, that's the very least I can do, so absolutely :) Thanks once again!
Be sure to test the "Try for free" button in magenta, too. It'll really pop with complimentary colors, which could be a good or bad thing.
Congrats, and nice writeup. Thank you very much.
What's your most important sources of traffic?
Do you spend any money on getting users?
What's your most important sources of traffic?
Do you spend any money on getting users?
What's your most important sources of traffic?
Google and various Twitter application directories.
Do you spend any money on getting users?
None so far, but am looking to change that in the summer. I'm getting married in a couple of weeks, and then honeymoonining, so things are getting a bit hectic, but once those have calmed down I'm thinking of experimenting with Adwords :)
Google and various Twitter application directories.
Do you spend any money on getting users?
None so far, but am looking to change that in the summer. I'm getting married in a couple of weeks, and then honeymoonining, so things are getting a bit hectic, but once those have calmed down I'm thinking of experimenting with Adwords :)
Congratulations, and thanks for the inspiring article. I have had an idea on the go on and off for a while now and this is inspiring me to get off my butt and finish it.
Awesome! I'm properly happy that my post has inspired you :-D Please do one thing in return - let me know how you get on :-)
Sure thing.
OK, here is my experience with the main page. I'm not a marketing expert, but maybe my comments might still be useful.
* Oh, nice professional looking website * First look to left middle "Tweeting machine" * Read the catch line about it being a FB/Twitter tool * Hmm, yeah, but what does it actually do? * Look to right pane. Bleh, looks like an FTP login shell. Oh wait, "Time to send", oh yeah, I think I remember this website popping up on an aggregator somewhere before. It's that one that lets you send out your tweets at a specified time. Not sure how I'd know that just looking at the screenshot though, unless I'd read about it before. * Look to top of page. "Twitter machine ". Wait, what's the star. Is there some fine print somewhere I'm missing. Look to bottom of page. * Schedule tweets. Yep it's that one I read about. That's the killer feature. * Auto follow. Hmm, suppose that could be useful. Would be nice if there were lots of interesting features like that. * Auto unfollow. Hmm, not useful. The Queen and Wikileaks are never gonna follow me. But I sure want to follow them. * Eventually spot the $19.99/month. Wait, didn't the blog say $19.99/year. Yeah it did. Oh wait. Looks like he changed that to $19.99/month. No WAY I'm gonna pay $19.99 per month. Do I pay for Twitter and Facebook? No, I don't think I do (checks credit card bill). * Hmm, what happens if FB and Twitter implement these features. This guy will be sunk. * Finally, after some minutes of puzzlement, thinks. Who is actually the market for this? Oh, I know, maybe people who want to send out tweets to thousands of people and who have thousands of friends on FB. Maybe people making money from being on social media. Advertisers. Spammers. People putting on concerts. Famous celebrities. * Hmm, so after all that, maybe this app is not aimed at me.
Anyhow, wishing you the best of luck with it. And again, I'm not an expert in any sense of the word. The above is just my honest reaction as I checked it out.
* Oh, nice professional looking website * First look to left middle "Tweeting machine" * Read the catch line about it being a FB/Twitter tool * Hmm, yeah, but what does it actually do? * Look to right pane. Bleh, looks like an FTP login shell. Oh wait, "Time to send", oh yeah, I think I remember this website popping up on an aggregator somewhere before. It's that one that lets you send out your tweets at a specified time. Not sure how I'd know that just looking at the screenshot though, unless I'd read about it before. * Look to top of page. "Twitter machine ". Wait, what's the star. Is there some fine print somewhere I'm missing. Look to bottom of page. * Schedule tweets. Yep it's that one I read about. That's the killer feature. * Auto follow. Hmm, suppose that could be useful. Would be nice if there were lots of interesting features like that. * Auto unfollow. Hmm, not useful. The Queen and Wikileaks are never gonna follow me. But I sure want to follow them. * Eventually spot the $19.99/month. Wait, didn't the blog say $19.99/year. Yeah it did. Oh wait. Looks like he changed that to $19.99/month. No WAY I'm gonna pay $19.99 per month. Do I pay for Twitter and Facebook? No, I don't think I do (checks credit card bill). * Hmm, what happens if FB and Twitter implement these features. This guy will be sunk. * Finally, after some minutes of puzzlement, thinks. Who is actually the market for this? Oh, I know, maybe people who want to send out tweets to thousands of people and who have thousands of friends on FB. Maybe people making money from being on social media. Advertisers. Spammers. People putting on concerts. Famous celebrities. * Hmm, so after all that, maybe this app is not aimed at me.
Anyhow, wishing you the best of luck with it. And again, I'm not an expert in any sense of the word. The above is just my honest reaction as I checked it out.
Anyhow, wishing you the best of luck with it. And again, I'm not an expert in any sense of the word. The above is just my honest reaction as I checked it out.
Hehe, it's fair and honest opinion so fair enough really :)
Regarding spammers, honestly you'd be surprised about the spread of customers that use TweetingMachine legitimately. This year though - I guess a sign of success - I've had quite a few problems with proper spammers on the system (and I have motivation to not support spammers - e.g. Twitter could turn off access otherwise), and have recently written quite a few automated systems to try and detect the buggers before they ruin it for everyone.
Hehe, it's fair and honest opinion so fair enough really :)
Regarding spammers, honestly you'd be surprised about the spread of customers that use TweetingMachine legitimately. This year though - I guess a sign of success - I've had quite a few problems with proper spammers on the system (and I have motivation to not support spammers - e.g. Twitter could turn off access otherwise), and have recently written quite a few automated systems to try and detect the buggers before they ruin it for everyone.
Then you might want to read the following links:
http://www.paulgraham.com/spam.html
http://www.paulgraham.com/better.html
They describe how bayesian filtering works and how to use it to detect spam automatically.
They describe how bayesian filtering works and how to use it to detect spam automatically.
Check out CRM114 Discriminator (http://crm114.sourceforge.net/ ), it's an amazing machine learning package tuned to filtering email. It can do good filtering right out of the box (with a little config and training).
mootothemax - thanks so much for this series. I loved the first post and was anxiously awaiting this one. It met and exceeded my expectations, packed with great advice and insight. That being said - the language seemed a bit rushed at times. Please run through it and fix grammatical errors - just a nit-picky thing :)
Oh, and I have a few quick questions on gaining initial users. Other than mass-mailing bloggers and submitting to twitter directories, what have you done to bring traffic to your site? Also, I'm interested to know unique visitors vs. free users vs. paid users, as I'm sure many others here are wondering as well. Do all free trials end up converting to paid users? Also, how have you handled existing customers when experimenting with price changes? Do you keep them on the plan that they signed up with, or do you apply the price changes to ALL customers? Please share with us!
Oh, and I have a few quick questions on gaining initial users. Other than mass-mailing bloggers and submitting to twitter directories, what have you done to bring traffic to your site? Also, I'm interested to know unique visitors vs. free users vs. paid users, as I'm sure many others here are wondering as well. Do all free trials end up converting to paid users? Also, how have you handled existing customers when experimenting with price changes? Do you keep them on the plan that they signed up with, or do you apply the price changes to ALL customers? Please share with us!
Thanks for your thanks! :-)
Other than mass-mailing bloggers and submitting to twitter directories, what have you done to bring traffic to your site?
That's been about the limit of it - attempting to get relevant users visiting the site, as there's no point in getting millions of visitors who have no interest in Twitter tools :-)
Also, I'm interested to know unique visitors vs. free users vs. paid users, as I'm sure many others here are wondering as well.
Hrm, I'll have a think about that and maybe write a small post about it :)
Also, how have you handled existing customers when experimenting with price changes?
Probably the wrong way. Customers stay on the plan they're on, so the lucky subscribers who are on $20/year stay on $20/year until they cancel their subscription.
I had two customers complain when they were paying $9.99/month and they say the new $19.99/year price. I explained that I was experimenting with pricing, that it was likely to change in future, but if it didn't then I'd be happy to offer them the new rate. It turns out that they've also done well now, so I think in the end everyone's happy :)
Other than mass-mailing bloggers and submitting to twitter directories, what have you done to bring traffic to your site?
That's been about the limit of it - attempting to get relevant users visiting the site, as there's no point in getting millions of visitors who have no interest in Twitter tools :-)
Also, I'm interested to know unique visitors vs. free users vs. paid users, as I'm sure many others here are wondering as well.
Hrm, I'll have a think about that and maybe write a small post about it :)
Also, how have you handled existing customers when experimenting with price changes?
Probably the wrong way. Customers stay on the plan they're on, so the lucky subscribers who are on $20/year stay on $20/year until they cancel their subscription.
I had two customers complain when they were paying $9.99/month and they say the new $19.99/year price. I explained that I was experimenting with pricing, that it was likely to change in future, but if it didn't then I'd be happy to offer them the new rate. It turns out that they've also done well now, so I think in the end everyone's happy :)
Have you considered reaching out specifically to small businesses who are doing Twitter marketing? Maybe even within your city or state could be a good start.
I have a comment about your site:
(full disclosure: I don't have any expertise about marketing, or entrepreneurship or anything at all really)
This may be my stupid showing through but on the front page, it looks like a piece of software that simply schedules tweets. That is a useful tool, but not something i'd pay $20 a month for considering I would probably just do it myself.
It would be good if there were a little user story or something about how this service will make my tweeting easier and save me a ton of time during my daily life on the world-wide-inter-tweets... Also, it would be good to have a price on the front page. I'm hesitant to click the 'try for free' button, because if I like it, it might be too expensive and then I would be sad.
(full disclosure: I don't have any expertise about marketing, or entrepreneurship or anything at all really)
This may be my stupid showing through but on the front page, it looks like a piece of software that simply schedules tweets. That is a useful tool, but not something i'd pay $20 a month for considering I would probably just do it myself.
It would be good if there were a little user story or something about how this service will make my tweeting easier and save me a ton of time during my daily life on the world-wide-inter-tweets... Also, it would be good to have a price on the front page. I'm hesitant to click the 'try for free' button, because if I like it, it might be too expensive and then I would be sad.
> but not something i'd pay $20 a month for considering I would probably just do it myself.
Keep in mind that if you're reading HN you're quite likely not to be in the target market for the site.
Coders are probably notorious for doing everything themselves to not spend money & get the chance to write something themselves.
There's a whole bunch of people who use Twitter for marketing and promotion who wouldn't think twice about $20 a month given the time saving and flexibility it provides--especially considering their alternative isn't a 5 line shell script but a minimum wage underling (or intern).
Keep in mind that if you're reading HN you're quite likely not to be in the target market for the site.
Coders are probably notorious for doing everything themselves to not spend money & get the chance to write something themselves.
There's a whole bunch of people who use Twitter for marketing and promotion who wouldn't think twice about $20 a month given the time saving and flexibility it provides--especially considering their alternative isn't a 5 line shell script but a minimum wage underling (or intern).
This may be my stupid showing through but on the front page, it looks like a piece of software that simply schedules tweets.
Fair enough, that shows that I seriously need to work on the wording of the site, as it has several features more than that.
Great point on the pricing call-out as well, I'm going to work soon to give that its own dedicated page to try and make it a bit more obvious :)
Fair enough, that shows that I seriously need to work on the wording of the site, as it has several features more than that.
Great point on the pricing call-out as well, I'm going to work soon to give that its own dedicated page to try and make it a bit more obvious :)
I think `follower` had it right in another reply to the GP, be careful about pricing your service and developing features against the crowd on HN. It doesn't seem like they are the target market for your application, so make sure to read opinions you get here in that light.
I love these articles. As much as I respect people who quit their jobs and start wonderful and vast new companies, I don't feel this path is for everyone. It's nice to hear about a success story from someone who has a side project; something that actually does generate small amounts of revenue but doesn't consume the author's life.
I would like to have a project like this. Keep the articles coming, I'd love to hear more.
I would like to have a project like this. Keep the articles coming, I'd love to hear more.
Thanks! I'll see what I can come up with over the upcoming weeks that'll be of interest as well :)
My other projects aren't as well developed or as old, but I guess it might be interesting to hear how they're progressing at a few months old each.
My other projects aren't as well developed or as old, but I guess it might be interesting to hear how they're progressing at a few months old each.
Absolutely, these are giving me inspiration to launch my side projects as products and start my small scale business. Income is small but the amount of diverse stuff you have to deal with is definitely hard to experience if you're not working for a very small startup.
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Your entire portfolio is very well executed, I might not agree about the usefulness of them all, but you've done it nicely and professional. An inspiration! Thanks for sharing!
It says it is a twitter and facebook tool, but none of the items on the "features" page (or anywhere else that I could find) describe what exactly it brings to the table with respect to facebook, other than the ability to authenticate with a facebook account.
Excellent series of articles, really enjoyed reading them.
I think the problem for a lot of people is coming up with that initial idea, that spark to get things moving. It's really difficult, I find, to come up with something that hasn't already been done before or is already better than what's in my head. I hope to reach your point some day, heh.
I think the problem for a lot of people is coming up with that initial idea, that spark to get things moving. It's really difficult, I find, to come up with something that hasn't already been done before or is already better than what's in my head. I hope to reach your point some day, heh.
It's really difficult, I find, to come up with something that hasn't already been done before
There were plenty of Twitter tools that'd let you schedule tweets before TweetingMachine was developed. If you have competition, it means there's money in that space :)
There were plenty of Twitter tools that'd let you schedule tweets before TweetingMachine was developed. If you have competition, it means there's money in that space :)
This is really good to know. I always seem to come up with ideas that have already been done. But it's possible my new approach would be better than the competition, like TweetingMachine.
Great story. How has the TweetingMachine affiliate program worked for you?
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This is pretty amazing and inspiring! Hey care to share the conversion rates - so how many visitors sign up for the trial and then how many of those end up paying?
Any noticeable subscriber increase since you posted the first article on HN?
I'm curious which paypal product you use, and how it's working out for you?
Good article, and I wish you continued and even greater success!
When you try Adwords, keep in mind your CPA (cost per acquisition) profitability should not be judged solely on a single month's price.
If you find out most of your users stick around for 3 months, and you are charging $20/month, the average signup is worth $60. But if you spend $30 in Adwords and get a single signup, and think it isn't profitable because you spend $10 more than the signup, it is a mistake. Over the next two months you will make a $30 profit.
Of course, this is over a three month period. But, if you have enough sign ups in the pipeline, you can see how well this works out.
When you try Adwords, keep in mind your CPA (cost per acquisition) profitability should not be judged solely on a single month's price.
If you find out most of your users stick around for 3 months, and you are charging $20/month, the average signup is worth $60. But if you spend $30 in Adwords and get a single signup, and think it isn't profitable because you spend $10 more than the signup, it is a mistake. Over the next two months you will make a $30 profit.
Of course, this is over a three month period. But, if you have enough sign ups in the pipeline, you can see how well this works out.
Good point.
If the person signs up to the site's mailing list after coming from Adwords, and eventually becomes a member, will Adwords record this conversion?
If the person signs up to the site's mailing list after coming from Adwords, and eventually becomes a member, will Adwords record this conversion?
FWIW, I would move the mailing list form out of the main call-to-action area as it visually interferes with the "Try for Free" button. Maybe move it to the black bar below that and center it. Could possibly reduce the size of its elements a bit too.