Sony offers hacker a job. Hacker turns them down because of geoHot(inquisitr.com)
inquisitr.com
Sony offers hacker a job. Hacker turns them down because of geoHot
http://www.inquisitr.com/101239/sony-offers-hacker-a-job-hacker-turns-them-down-because-of-geohot/
18 comments
It’s not very often that when someone is offered a plum job with a company like Sony that they turn it down
Yeah, I get job offers like that a couple times a week. Guess what, I turn them down too. And it's not hard at all, because they are not offers of a plum job, they are an invitation to apply for a position.
Yeah, I get job offers like that a couple times a week. Guess what, I turn them down too. And it's not hard at all, because they are not offers of a plum job, they are an invitation to apply for a position.
... and we usually do not take a screenshot of the email after replying "Thanks, but no thanks" by email either.
It is just a cheap-shot to ride on the geoHot wave to get 15 mins of fame.
It is just a cheap-shot to ride on the geoHot wave to get 15 mins of fame.
I laughed at the 0 minutes in the screenshot. He wrote the email and was immediately so proud of his reply that he just had to take a screen shot right away and send it to some bloggers. Great, thanks for contributing.
Spoken by someone who is not familiar with koush or his works. That's too bad.
I got such an email from Google. I even responded. I didn't hear back. Fortunately, my response cost me little time, and the invitation itself is still good for my ego.
Exactly. This whole thing got blown WAY out of proportion.
if the person being courted would likely get the position if they applied, your conclusion doesn't follow
There is nothing in the letter to indicate that. I get such "would you like to explore" letters twice a week too; and I turn them down also.
It is the recruiters' job to cast a wide net and reel in as many candidates as they can.
It is the recruiters' job to cast a wide net and reel in as many candidates as they can.
> I get such "would you like to explore" letters twice a week too; and I turn them down also.
Yep. If you don't currently get them and want them, post on some FOSS-related mailing lists. Like magic, you'll get dozens!
A third-party Google recruiter courted me because of my, quote, "reputation in the Python community" after a single message to python-list.
Yep. If you don't currently get them and want them, post on some FOSS-related mailing lists. Like magic, you'll get dozens!
A third-party Google recruiter courted me because of my, quote, "reputation in the Python community" after a single message to python-list.
Thanks; my self-esteem was getting crushed for a bit there, as a non-recipient of unwanted messages from recruiters.
This doesn't appear to be a third party recruiter, unless Sony lets recruiters register @playstation.sony.com emails.
It's not as if they offered him a concrete offer to create the next hot DRM component, just a generic offer for a generic software engineer role. If he would have gone down that path they would have had multiple interviews, mutual checking for possible team fits, etc... This is as generic as it gets, maybe one level above the generic LinkedIn message. Sure, it can result in a concrete offer down the road, but it's not as if a head hunter tried to get the hacker "by whatever fiscal means necessary".
This is like people "sticking it to the man" by yelling at the cable company representative - helps no one.
This is like people "sticking it to the man" by yelling at the cable company representative - helps no one.
It's still unusual for a company the size of Sony to reach out to someone like that.
What's more is that it's now on Hacker News - so it's bigger news than Sony probably ever intended it to be.
What's more is that it's now on Hacker News - so it's bigger news than Sony probably ever intended it to be.
No, it's not unusual at all. They employ people full time to do it! And it's not new either, before blogs recruiters contacted people who had a big presence on Usenet or mailing lists.
It is only unusual for someone to confuse it for an actual "job offer".
It is only unusual for someone to confuse it for an actual "job offer".
maybe it's a location thing... I have some online presence and as you say, get tons of such offers here in Israel on LinkedIn/email.
Not really. I've got emails like that from Microsoft and a ton of other large companies. A guy from Symantec even rang me, said he found me on linkedin, despite my linkedin profile stating not to call me by phone (I don't have my number in my profile, but you can easily find it from linked material). Neither the emails, nor the phone calls mean anything. He still owuld have had to send a CV/resume and maybe get asked for an interview or two before he ever got a job. This isn't unusual at all, its very common.
>It's still unusual for a company the size of Sony to reach out to someone like that.
Uhh, almost all big companies reach out like that. In fact, bigger companies are more likely to need such talent reach out like that because of their brand than random small companies.
Uhh, almost all big companies reach out like that. In fact, bigger companies are more likely to need such talent reach out like that because of their brand than random small companies.
She probably read the email and thought: "Hacker? He's a hacker? We can't hire hackers! Good thing he told me straight away, he just saved us all a lot of time!"
We know what he means, but other people take the word hacker to mean something else.
If Sony came to this site and saw this article, they'd probably think the same thing too. If the email was sent to try and get them to change their ways, it probably won't have worked at all, since they might not even understand the meaning of the message.
We know what he means, but other people take the word hacker to mean something else.
If Sony came to this site and saw this article, they'd probably think the same thing too. If the email was sent to try and get them to change their ways, it probably won't have worked at all, since they might not even understand the meaning of the message.
No, but it makes a pretty good story for the media, which will probably result in lots of more negative PR for Sony, which in turn will be something that Sony would worry about.
Unfortunately, the rest of the world has the same issues understanding the term "hacker." I think this will just fall into obscurity.
Sony: "Oh, no! Not a hacker! They're the ones that know when we sneak DRM into our products and rat us out to our customers!"
The hacker solidarity here is awesome, but I agree let's not overestimate Sony's recruitment team.
The hacker solidarity here is awesome, but I agree let's not overestimate Sony's recruitment team.
I worked with Koush last year at Kiha Software (an Android software startup in Seattle). Currently, he is working on his own one-person startup http://www.deployfu.com/ which could be described as "Heroku for .NET (and other platforms)."
I had similar experience long long time ago -- told the recruiter that I would not interview with Philip Morris and got back a blank stare. Nothing dramatic really came out of it, but it sure made me feel good.
PS. Oh, and Sony was not offering this gent a job, it was a simple "feeler". Google sends out these in droves, it does not mean they are sure job offers.
PS. Oh, and Sony was not offering this gent a job, it was a simple "feeler". Google sends out these in droves, it does not mean they are sure job offers.
Good on him, but surely there's a better source than this? Lack of any real information aside, this article was painful to read. A twitter link to the picture would have conveyed just as much information without the stumbling, awkward prose.
This article "Sony's way on Hackers, Innovaters and Makers" from Make magazine blog (which is down now, but I'll link to the cache) is a good run down of the various ways, before and up to the geohot lawsuit, sony has been attacking hackers and experimenters: http://bit.ly/dVmhC8
ah yeah -- it just was down this morning, so linked to the cache. thanks.
I work at SCEA, occasionally with Sarah on recruiting issues. Just want to put it out there that she's a genuinely nice person, and an ethical recruiter. Our internal recruiters reach out to folks like this every day. I guess she just got a bit unlucky on this one by running into someone looking for his 15 minutes.
Also, "reaching out" is a far cry from a "job offer"! You still need to be phone screened and extensively interviewed in-person before you have any sort of shot at an offer. Gotta make sure the candidate actually knows his or her stuff, and that they're not going to act like a complete asshole.
Also, "reaching out" is a far cry from a "job offer"! You still need to be phone screened and extensively interviewed in-person before you have any sort of shot at an offer. Gotta make sure the candidate actually knows his or her stuff, and that they're not going to act like a complete asshole.
Well, how did Sony in your opinion acted when stopped me to play new games while keeping the possibility of running Linux in my property? I can not find the word, but your "complete asshole" expression could work as an approximation also for that case.
With some work, I think I figured out what you are trying to ask. I have no comment on the OtherOS issue.
I don't understand how this gets 200+ points. Has a vast majority of people not received these blanket recruiter emails before?
For those who say that this will never reach the ears of anyone that matter in Sony, it isn't their ears that matter. This has brought to light something that provides negative publicity to sony in the hacker community, and will make recruiting more difficult for them.
Basically, whether they know it or not, they are effectively being punished for their actions. The failure to recruit a few talented candidates that will read about this will harm their long term business success.
Basically, whether they know it or not, they are effectively being punished for their actions. The failure to recruit a few talented candidates that will read about this will harm their long term business success.
Who does say there isn't solidarity among hackers? Is that a thing? I've always thought of my fellow hackers as a supportive group.
A job was not offered. Title and OA are incorrect. An opening dialogue attempt was made by a recruiter.
georgecmu's comment is good too. Those sorts of emails from recruiters are closer to the random snail mail you get from credit card companies saying "Contratulations! You're pre-approved!" -- just fill out this form with all your PII and we might really approve you. Maybe. It's a little better filtered than that, but not too much.
georgecmu's comment is good too. Those sorts of emails from recruiters are closer to the random snail mail you get from credit card companies saying "Contratulations! You're pre-approved!" -- just fill out this form with all your PII and we might really approve you. Maybe. It's a little better filtered than that, but not too much.
That's not really a job offer, but props to Koushik for standing up for his principles.
Exactly, this is a mistake made by almost everyone who has reported it! Large companies have their recruiters send emails like this out all the time.
I get emails like this occasionally. Not from Sony, but other large firms in the industry that I've been in for many years. It's all quite routine.
Good. After the geohot disaster, I sold my PS3 and all the games I had, my vaio laptop, and my flatscreen TV. I refuse to patronize a company that abuses it's customers like that. Apple may have a reputation for disliking people who hack their products but they realized if they pursue legal action against them, they'd alienate the core base of developers they rely on for the Apps they make such a big deal about.
As someone that has been involved it in hacking apple products and making some pocket change from it in a past life, I hardly think apple has a reputation for disliking these people.
If anything, apple looks at what people come up with 'off the ranch' and pulls it into their own stuff if they like it. Apple may have this 'reputation,' but it's purely because the press wants to have it painted this way. I'm no fanboy or anything, I've had a business crushed at their hands; as an engineer and a business guy, I find their decisions to be relatively rational and I was well aware of what was coming well before it was delivered.
People like to point to the guy on top as big and evil. Rightnow it's Apple, 12-15 years ago it was Microsoft. Tomorrow it could be Google.
People like to point to the guy on top as big and evil. Rightnow it's Apple, 12-15 years ago it was Microsoft. Tomorrow it could be Google.
But it certainly sounds like as if you are an Apple fanboy. Apple do hate hacking on their products, restrictions of using itunes for anything Apple is something I just can't bear with, along with restrictions like using OS/X for developing iphone/ipod apps.
To add to bonzoesc, who likes their product getting hacked? It's a business and they're trying to make money. The business plans on these high profile products with years of dev time are made years in advance. In technology, that's a lifetime, and in hardware doing pivots isn't trivial.
There's also very real concerns regarding hacking - i.e. you want to avoid getting the rep for being that company responsible (think Sidekick) for the Paris Hilton situation, where all of hollywood's A-list celebrities phone numbers get leaked onto the internet. You're trying to build a secure device.
The business motivations are obvious. Apple builds a good closed system. Google builds a janky open system. Both models work, neither is right or wrong, and both companys go to the bank.
And just to put things into perspective, there was no App Store when Apple launched the iphone. I'm pretty sure they never intended for there to be, but once they saw what people were coming up with 'off the ranch' it became fairly obvious to them to let developers develop on their platform. The reason I'm fairly certain Apple had no initial plans for this is simply because, on the version of the first public firmware (and only the first one), everything ran as root user... that's just idiotic.
There's also very real concerns regarding hacking - i.e. you want to avoid getting the rep for being that company responsible (think Sidekick) for the Paris Hilton situation, where all of hollywood's A-list celebrities phone numbers get leaked onto the internet. You're trying to build a secure device.
The business motivations are obvious. Apple builds a good closed system. Google builds a janky open system. Both models work, neither is right or wrong, and both companys go to the bank.
And just to put things into perspective, there was no App Store when Apple launched the iphone. I'm pretty sure they never intended for there to be, but once they saw what people were coming up with 'off the ranch' it became fairly obvious to them to let developers develop on their platform. The reason I'm fairly certain Apple had no initial plans for this is simply because, on the version of the first public firmware (and only the first one), everything ran as root user... that's just idiotic.
Ignoring the impossibility of a publicly-held company "hating" things, if Apple "hated" iOS jailbreaking/hacking, there'd be members of the teams that develop the techniques and capabilities in court just like geohot.
The iTunes cracking restrictions are probably related to their contracts with providers selling stuff on the iTunes store. The requirement to use iTunes for managing iOS devices is simply because no other software has been written to do it.
There's no documented requirement to only use Mac OS X for iOS development. Infinity Blade (seen here on the left: http://www.apple.com/ipad/from-the-app-store/games.html ) was mostly developed in Windows ( see http://udn.epicgames.com/Three/GettingStartediOSDevelopment.... ).
The iTunes cracking restrictions are probably related to their contracts with providers selling stuff on the iTunes store. The requirement to use iTunes for managing iOS devices is simply because no other software has been written to do it.
There's no documented requirement to only use Mac OS X for iOS development. Infinity Blade (seen here on the left: http://www.apple.com/ipad/from-the-app-store/games.html ) was mostly developed in Windows ( see http://udn.epicgames.com/Three/GettingStartediOSDevelopment.... ).
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What about things like this?
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/11/26/apple-bans-android-ma...
Why should Apple agree to distribute (presumably positive) content about their primary competitor? I can't find anything wrong with this decision.
It's indicates insecurity on their part about their products and a lack of respect for their users. Why not let the market decide?
If there is anything I have learned about Steve Jobs, it is that he decides for the market.
The market will decide. The market is the final judge on all decisions. Sometimes it takes a little longer for the dust to settle, but if a decision ended up being a bad decision then either change or get owned for it.
Are you saying they should also sell Android phones in their retail stores?
businesses aren't democratic, plain and simple. If that had been the government saying you couldn't publish your book about Islam or Judaism or something, then that's something to get up in arms about.
What about the Hymn project?
http://hymn-project.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2496
What about Psystar?
What about Psystar?
With Hymn, I suspect Apple only had two options: (1) go after them, or (2) get out of the music distribution business. At the time, the people who owned the music Apple distributed required Apple to use DRM. I'd be shocked if the license they gave Apple did not include a requirement that Apple do everything it could reasonably do technically and legally to try to keep the DRM effective.
As for Psystar, what about them? Apple has not gone after the hackers who figure out how to run OS X on non-Mac hardware. They've not gone after the numerous web sites that tell you how to do it. They've not gone after the book you can readily buy at B&N or Amazon on building a hackintosh. They've mostly looked the other way (hell, they have even been known to include in OS X updates bug fixes for problems that only manifested themselves on non-Apple hardware). It sure doesn't look like Apple has much of a problem with people hacking.
As for Psystar, what about them? Apple has not gone after the hackers who figure out how to run OS X on non-Mac hardware. They've not gone after the numerous web sites that tell you how to do it. They've not gone after the book you can readily buy at B&N or Amazon on building a hackintosh. They've mostly looked the other way (hell, they have even been known to include in OS X updates bug fixes for problems that only manifested themselves on non-Apple hardware). It sure doesn't look like Apple has much of a problem with people hacking.
I had a similar response to Blizzard over bnetd[1].
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bnetd
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bnetd
And wasn't battle.net a Kali ripoff in the first place?
In the same way Facebook is a ripoff of Friendster, or iPhone is a ripoff of Windows Mobile.
Taking an existing idea and implementing it far better than the incumbent is not ripping off. It's progress.
Ripping off involves wholesale copying without adding anything original, substantial, or worthwhile to the effort.
Taking an existing idea and implementing it far better than the incumbent is not ripping off. It's progress.
Ripping off involves wholesale copying without adding anything original, substantial, or worthwhile to the effort.
I don't think that's really a good comparison of what happened with Kali, battle.net etc. (there was actually another one before Kali but I can't remember it's name).
It's more like a great indy iPhone app that increases the value of the phone and even becomes one of the reasons people are buying the phone. Then Apple decides to build the same functionality right into the phone making the app obsolete. That's a much better analogy.
Now I'm not against Apple doing that at all. In fact I think it's a no-brainer, and failing to do it would be disappointing. It's just a shame that the little indy guys who created that market for them get shut out. Toss them a couple million bucks or something you know?
It's more like a great indy iPhone app that increases the value of the phone and even becomes one of the reasons people are buying the phone. Then Apple decides to build the same functionality right into the phone making the app obsolete. That's a much better analogy.
Now I'm not against Apple doing that at all. In fact I think it's a no-brainer, and failing to do it would be disappointing. It's just a shame that the little indy guys who created that market for them get shut out. Toss them a couple million bucks or something you know?
One considerable difference between Apple and Sony Hackers is, Apple makes money from App Developers while Sony doesn't.
False. They may not make money in the same way, but they definitely make money off of app developers. The PS3 SDK costs something like $10,000. They also charge royalties against each game sold.
"To clear up any confusion, I was not offered a job, just an interview, which I declined out of principle. For those saying "I'm going to regret being principled", etc. Probably not. Android App sales have been more than good to me. Good, enterprising, devs should never find themselves short of opportunities."
I wasn't trying to "ride on the geohot wave to get 15 mins of fame". Without beating my drum too much, I've already achieved a moderate degree of it within the Android community. http://twitter.com/#!/koush
I had been tweeting about geohot's happenings for the past few months, and then I got that recruiter email. So I responded, and took a screenshot because the whole thing was a pretty ironic, and tweeted it. Then ~16000 followers made it go viral: http://twitter.com/#!/koush/status/46345951819993088