Decision: To continue working on the start-up or go to grad school?
4 comments
IMHO, if your partner can't look at his page on your site and see how completely obvious it is that he should stay in SF... he might as well move to Indiana, because your product is useless. ;)
I can't figure out whether or not I can draw all over that decisionero page without ruining it, so let me riff on it here:
San Francisco is a city that fits me, where the possibility of wonderful new connection is everywhere.
Then perhaps you should... live there? :)
San Francisco might be a poor place for me to study for a degree: all that possibility for connection is also possibility for distraction.
Yes! Thank god! You know why I'm here on news.yc in the first place? Because Philip Greenspun distracted me from grad school.
The entire point of grad school is the distractions. I learned this far too late, but at least I learned it.
Indiana's comp sci department has said that they cannot fund me for 2008-9...
Warning sign.
The professor at Indiana who I like is right now getting into the line of research that I want to pursue. Virtually everyone else to whom I've told this research idea to has said it's a terrible idea and can't work. This fellow "gets it". This year is probably the best time to get started on it, just as he is ramping up
Big warning sign.
If you want to be a professor you need two things as you come out of grad school: A stellar recommendation letter from someone well established in the field [1], and the ability to get your grants funded. Working for a relatively new guy is dangerous, as is settling for a guy at a less-than-top-tier school -- his recommendations aren't worth as much. Going to work on a problem that most other profs think is a waste of time is incredibly foolish, because those other profs are the ones who will be reviewing your grant proposals and interviewing you for your next academic job. If everyone tells you up front that your idea won't work, and it doesn't (which is the most likely possibility), you won't exactly look like a genius. Even if your idea does work, many of those people won't get it. Or they might just refuse to listen to you out of spite. (If you think that can't happen because it would just be too petty and unfair, you know nothing about academia. ;)
I think professorship is really what I'm made for, and Indiana looks like the best path for that. That's the one place where I've met a professor who seems on my wavelength...
Wait -- you think being a prof is a good idea despite the fact that only one prof in the world seems to be on your wavelength?
Being a prof is entirely about making other profs happy so that they'll vote to give you funding. If you don't enjoy playing political games with other professors, you won't enjoy being a professor.
A master's degree from SFSU would likely lead straight to a Ph.D. from Berkeley or Stanford. And a Ph.D. from Berkeley or Stanford are better tickets to professorship at a research university than a Ph.D. from Indiana.
Amen. This is not only 100% correct, it's the most important factor by an order of magnitude.
If you seriously want to be a prof, never settle for a second-tier school so long as there are top-tier schools in the running. Berkeley or Stanford profs have better reputations, better connections, and better locations. Remember: academic hiring is more subjective than objective. It's as much about marketing, connections, and politics as it is about research talent and results, even if you're Knuth.
[1] Actually, you need three recommendation letters. Yet another argument for attending a university with at least three well-respected, well-known faculty members that you can interact with... and for studying a topic that these three people will understand and respect.
I can't figure out whether or not I can draw all over that decisionero page without ruining it, so let me riff on it here:
San Francisco is a city that fits me, where the possibility of wonderful new connection is everywhere.
Then perhaps you should... live there? :)
San Francisco might be a poor place for me to study for a degree: all that possibility for connection is also possibility for distraction.
Yes! Thank god! You know why I'm here on news.yc in the first place? Because Philip Greenspun distracted me from grad school.
The entire point of grad school is the distractions. I learned this far too late, but at least I learned it.
Indiana's comp sci department has said that they cannot fund me for 2008-9...
Warning sign.
The professor at Indiana who I like is right now getting into the line of research that I want to pursue. Virtually everyone else to whom I've told this research idea to has said it's a terrible idea and can't work. This fellow "gets it". This year is probably the best time to get started on it, just as he is ramping up
Big warning sign.
If you want to be a professor you need two things as you come out of grad school: A stellar recommendation letter from someone well established in the field [1], and the ability to get your grants funded. Working for a relatively new guy is dangerous, as is settling for a guy at a less-than-top-tier school -- his recommendations aren't worth as much. Going to work on a problem that most other profs think is a waste of time is incredibly foolish, because those other profs are the ones who will be reviewing your grant proposals and interviewing you for your next academic job. If everyone tells you up front that your idea won't work, and it doesn't (which is the most likely possibility), you won't exactly look like a genius. Even if your idea does work, many of those people won't get it. Or they might just refuse to listen to you out of spite. (If you think that can't happen because it would just be too petty and unfair, you know nothing about academia. ;)
I think professorship is really what I'm made for, and Indiana looks like the best path for that. That's the one place where I've met a professor who seems on my wavelength...
Wait -- you think being a prof is a good idea despite the fact that only one prof in the world seems to be on your wavelength?
Being a prof is entirely about making other profs happy so that they'll vote to give you funding. If you don't enjoy playing political games with other professors, you won't enjoy being a professor.
A master's degree from SFSU would likely lead straight to a Ph.D. from Berkeley or Stanford. And a Ph.D. from Berkeley or Stanford are better tickets to professorship at a research university than a Ph.D. from Indiana.
Amen. This is not only 100% correct, it's the most important factor by an order of magnitude.
If you seriously want to be a prof, never settle for a second-tier school so long as there are top-tier schools in the running. Berkeley or Stanford profs have better reputations, better connections, and better locations. Remember: academic hiring is more subjective than objective. It's as much about marketing, connections, and politics as it is about research talent and results, even if you're Knuth.
[1] Actually, you need three recommendation letters. Yet another argument for attending a university with at least three well-respected, well-known faculty members that you can interact with... and for studying a topic that these three people will understand and respect.
Thank you for the thoughtful reply. Especially for the incite into the world of academia. Minor aside, being able to post comments like this on our website is on our TODO list. Placing your comments here in the meantime was the best option. The fact that you had to do so will bump that up in priority. ;)
Yeah. I noticed that it seemed to be a wiki, and was tempted to try it out... but I'm sure you can understand why I was reluctant to paste this giant glob of opinions all over your outline page. :)
Incidentally, no discussion of this topic is complete without an administration of the Greenspun test. Read the link I posted here, and the comments:
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117378
If your partner can read all that and still be sure that he wants to be a professor... he needs to at least try going to grad school, because he's truly in love. ;) But I still recommend SF over Indiana, despite the fact that I grew up in Ohio and should really be sticking up for the Midwest...
Incidentally, no discussion of this topic is complete without an administration of the Greenspun test. Read the link I posted here, and the comments:
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117378
If your partner can read all that and still be sure that he wants to be a professor... he needs to at least try going to grad school, because he's truly in love. ;) But I still recommend SF over Indiana, despite the fact that I grew up in Ohio and should really be sticking up for the Midwest...
Thanks for the passionate rant. I'm the guy who's about to make the big decision.
Something I found especially interesting was your point about unfashionable research not getting respect (and funding) in academia, even if it works out. I used to work at Caltech, and the biggest surprise for me was how much time the P.I. I was working for had to spend on grant proposals--and doing the political work to get people excited about his stuff. It struck me as pretty similar to entrepreneurship, actually, but with money coming from a very different source than happy customers.
I'm going to spend today and tomorrow acting as if I canceled my admission this year. Then I'll see how I feel on Friday.
Something I found especially interesting was your point about unfashionable research not getting respect (and funding) in academia, even if it works out. I used to work at Caltech, and the biggest surprise for me was how much time the P.I. I was working for had to spend on grant proposals--and doing the political work to get people excited about his stuff. It struck me as pretty similar to entrepreneurship, actually, but with money coming from a very different source than happy customers.
I'm going to spend today and tomorrow acting as if I canceled my admission this year. Then I'll see how I feel on Friday.
Oh, and I almost forgot! An important book to read is A Ph.D. is Not Enough! A Guide to Survival in Science:
http://www.amazon.com/PhD-Not-Enough-Survival-Science/dp/020...
It's a bit dated, but it's quite valuable.
http://www.amazon.com/PhD-Not-Enough-Survival-Science/dp/020...
It's a bit dated, but it's quite valuable.
Cool.. that's all very helpful. Especially the links and extra reference material. That's all we do these days is pass books back and forth. haha.
If there's no financial pressure to stop doing the startup right now I say go for it. Grad school will always be there later in the future.
Well, how about this: an investor just popped out of the woodwork, looking to put $15K into the site.
I don't have enough savings to last a year, so I was a little worried about my finances if I do decisionero. This bit of news definitely shifts the balance.
I don't have enough savings to last a year, so I was a little worried about my finances if I do decisionero. This bit of news definitely shifts the balance.
Yep. I agree. And, it's not like grad school pays very well. I think his grant is for 10-15K/yr.
Just my 2 cents:
a. no matter how much formal education you have, you already have enough
b. if doesn't matter where you live
c. go with your gut (you know you want to)
a. no matter how much formal education you have, you already have enough
b. if doesn't matter where you live
c. go with your gut (you know you want to)
Defer, Defer, Defer
http://decisionero.com/43t_friends/San_Francisco_or_Indiana%3F
Cheers!