Kathy Sierra(deprogrammaticaipsum.com)
deprogrammaticaipsum.com
Kathy Sierra
https://deprogrammaticaipsum.com/kathy-sierra/
41 comments
In her own words: https://www.wired.com/2014/10/trolls-will-always-win/
Well worth a read to understand what modern "trolling" is actually like, and why "don't feed the trolls" is impotent and downright hurtful advice.
Well worth a read to understand what modern "trolling" is actually like, and why "don't feed the trolls" is impotent and downright hurtful advice.
For the life of me, I cannot figure out why someone would attack Kathy Sierra, a mere book author. Incredible.
Wait until you find out about wars and genocides!
I was lucky enough to hear Kathy Sierra speak in what I believe is one of her last public appearances. I had never heard of her before. It remains one of the best talks I’ve ever heard, not only because of the content, which was excellent, but her delivery was incredible. She had something like 150 slides that she bulldozed through flawlessly and she was really funny. After that I learned about the harassment and I find it so disappointing That people can be so cruel and that we have missed out on more contributions from her. I really hope one day she’ll return but I completely understand if she doesn’t.
BoS 2012? I was there and that presentation changed my way on how to (re)think about users interactions with products. I don’t exaggerate if I say that the ROI of attending that event (if only for her session) has been well over 1000x
She also did BoS Europe in 2014 but not sure she's been back since unfortunately: https://businessofsoftware.org/2017/08/kathy-sierra-motivati...
I saw the above talk first hand: well worth investing the time to watch.
I saw the above talk first hand: well worth investing the time to watch.
Yes! I feel the same way re: ROI of that talk. I consistently say it was worth the entire price of admission. There were some other really good speakers that year, but she was incredible.
I spoke with her after her talk at the Future of Web Apps in London in 2008. She even agreed to give a talk at a conference I was planning for the next year, but soon afterwards the world started falling apart and it never happened. :(
Surprised this hasn’t been posted here yet: https://www.wired.com/2014/10/trolls-will-always-win/
Kathy Sierra on online harassment, betrayal by her own community, and why “don’t feed the troll” is not only ineffective, but a slap in the face to those who face this kind of abuse.
Kathy Sierra on online harassment, betrayal by her own community, and why “don’t feed the troll” is not only ineffective, but a slap in the face to those who face this kind of abuse.
That spurred a memory! I remember reading the pictured Head First HTML book cover to cover when I was younger. A big part of it was the jokes. I remember laughing out loud while reading the book, and I think it definitely positively affected my idea of how difficult content could be presented. Humor is an effective backdoor to get people to engage with otherwise difficult content.
« The third era actually started [...] in 2005. In this era, books are no longer dry sequences of pages, with code snippets to run on a nearby computer; their pages are full of examples, pictures, and fun. »
I haven't seen the "Head first" books this article is about, but the above could be a description of any number of books from the 70s and 80s, like the Leo Brodie Forth books.
I haven't seen the "Head first" books this article is about, but the above could be a description of any number of books from the 70s and 80s, like the Leo Brodie Forth books.
I've read a couple and her books are amazingly good.
I especially liked Head First Design Patterns -- I've read 4-5 books on the subject, but the Head First examples are the ones that have stuck with me after all these years.
Her SCJP books were also exceptionally good/the gold standard as far as I remember.
Her SCJP books were also exceptionally good/the gold standard as far as I remember.
I'm honestly surprised it was a woman behind Head First books because the aesthetic of the series (in particular, the covers featuring a cute white or asian girl looking up toward the reader supplicating pose) seemed (and seem) like a kind of sexist fan service for the same online-troll demographic that drove her out of the industry.
I still think the design accommodates the industry's demographics at the time. Terrible what happened to her, but those books are embarrassing. To be fair the specific decisions around what to put on the cover may not have been hers.
I still think the design accommodates the industry's demographics at the time. Terrible what happened to her, but those books are embarrassing. To be fair the specific decisions around what to put on the cover may not have been hers.
I first started learning C as a teen with "C for Dummies" in the 90s and that series definitely included a conversational tone and humour, and were very popular at the time but perhaps not taken seriously by real professionals.
You can see a significant portion of the book on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/Head-First-Design-Patterns-Brain-Frie...
https://www.amazon.com/Head-First-Design-Patterns-Brain-Frie...
The Brodie Forth books were the first thing that popped into my head too, but the Head First books really are another step away from K&R C etc.
> On the other hand, they also triggered a horrid revelation, the darkest nature of online harassment, with abject levels of abuse and misogyny. Maybe they played a minor role as catalysts opening the door to the decade of the Me Too movement.
That's a strange way to end the article.
What happened? It is kind of weird to talk about the different eras as a description for people who didn't live through them and then drop that reference expecting the reader to know the context - just my two cents.
That's a strange way to end the article.
What happened? It is kind of weird to talk about the different eras as a description for people who didn't live through them and then drop that reference expecting the reader to know the context - just my two cents.
Wow.. I was expecting random sexist comments, not lynching threats ( not that the former are good, but that's a whole different league).
I've thought hard about saying anything here, but what the hey, let me make an observation.
HN is a pretty good community. It's got a lot of smart, knowledgeable people who share freely. They are generally curious, inquisitive, and interested in a wide range of things.
And yet, I've been watching this item. It did well to start with, and even now the number of upvotes it's had should have it on the front page. Why is it not there?
My guess (as someone who's been around for a while and watched the dynamics, but with no insider knowledge) is that people are flagging it.
I've seen similar submissions about people thrive and stay on the front page for hours, but this one is being flagged. The primary differentiators are that (a) this is a woman in tech, and (b) she was harassed by the tech community. This is all hypothetical, hand-waving, "You Have No Proof!" territory, but I've seen this played out before.
What happened to Kathy is vile, horrendous, and all-too-believable.
HN is a pretty good community. It's got a lot of smart, knowledgeable people who share freely. They are generally curious, inquisitive, and interested in a wide range of things.
And yet, I've been watching this item. It did well to start with, and even now the number of upvotes it's had should have it on the front page. Why is it not there?
My guess (as someone who's been around for a while and watched the dynamics, but with no insider knowledge) is that people are flagging it.
I've seen similar submissions about people thrive and stay on the front page for hours, but this one is being flagged. The primary differentiators are that (a) this is a woman in tech, and (b) she was harassed by the tech community. This is all hypothetical, hand-waving, "You Have No Proof!" territory, but I've seen this played out before.
What happened to Kathy is vile, horrendous, and all-too-believable.
Another explanation: certain people - or an algorithm - will do anything to get hot topics off the front page.
The moment any discussion starts to get "interesting", regardless of who it is about, that moment it drops like a stone.
I guess it happens to any post where a number of people get lots of both upvotes and downvotes or where a number of answers are flagged.
In that regard this site is like a young child of mine who has grown up in such a happy home that when I sometimes say no to some idea my wife has that child is wondering if we are going to divorce :-/
In the same way, on this site people are so polite that either the flamewar detector or a number of users has become way too sensitive.
(That said: IMO it is a good thing that my children never see their parents argue in anger and it is a good thing that people are used to everyone being polite here, I just wish we could be a tiny bit less sensitive. Some hot topics actually should be discussed some times, like this one.)
There's a link to contact the mods at the bottom of the page. They (most often dang) usually reply, and it seems they use the feedback to tune the system.
(Yes BTW, this account is young, but I have been here a long time)
The moment any discussion starts to get "interesting", regardless of who it is about, that moment it drops like a stone.
I guess it happens to any post where a number of people get lots of both upvotes and downvotes or where a number of answers are flagged.
In that regard this site is like a young child of mine who has grown up in such a happy home that when I sometimes say no to some idea my wife has that child is wondering if we are going to divorce :-/
In the same way, on this site people are so polite that either the flamewar detector or a number of users has become way too sensitive.
(That said: IMO it is a good thing that my children never see their parents argue in anger and it is a good thing that people are used to everyone being polite here, I just wish we could be a tiny bit less sensitive. Some hot topics actually should be discussed some times, like this one.)
There's a link to contact the mods at the bottom of the page. They (most often dang) usually reply, and it seems they use the feedback to tune the system.
(Yes BTW, this account is young, but I have been here a long time)
> ... either the flamewar detector or a number of users has become way too sensitive.
This hasn't triggered the flame-war filter, because the number of up-votes is still higher than the number of comments.
> ... certain people - or an algorithm - will do anything to get hot topics off the front page.
Or not necessarily hot topics, just specifically topics that highlight, even if only tangentially, that women are often driven out of tech by harassment, including threats of rape and death, including to their families.
> The moment any discussion starts to get "interesting", regardless of who it is about, that moment it drops like a stone.
There are many, many discussions that get "interesting" without that happening.
> ... any post ... lots of both upvotes and downvotes ...
You can't downvote a submission.
> Some hot topics actually should be discussed some times, like this one.
Yes, although the evidence suggests that rational discussion about this topic isn't possible, especially in a forum like this one. I genuinely long for the day the topic can be discussed constructively, and even more for the day it's a complete non-issue. I doubt I'll see either.
> There's a link to contact the mods at the bottom of the page.
I suspect the mods are happy to see this sink, because the alternative is that it will erupt into an unpleasant cesspit of people thinking/claiming that they are being logical and rational, when really they aren't.
> ... [the mods] ... usually reply, and it seems they use the feedback to tune the system.
They are the reason the site remains even remotely interesting and useful.
This hasn't triggered the flame-war filter, because the number of up-votes is still higher than the number of comments.
> ... certain people - or an algorithm - will do anything to get hot topics off the front page.
Or not necessarily hot topics, just specifically topics that highlight, even if only tangentially, that women are often driven out of tech by harassment, including threats of rape and death, including to their families.
> The moment any discussion starts to get "interesting", regardless of who it is about, that moment it drops like a stone.
There are many, many discussions that get "interesting" without that happening.
> ... any post ... lots of both upvotes and downvotes ...
You can't downvote a submission.
> Some hot topics actually should be discussed some times, like this one.
Yes, although the evidence suggests that rational discussion about this topic isn't possible, especially in a forum like this one. I genuinely long for the day the topic can be discussed constructively, and even more for the day it's a complete non-issue. I doubt I'll see either.
> There's a link to contact the mods at the bottom of the page.
I suspect the mods are happy to see this sink, because the alternative is that it will erupt into an unpleasant cesspit of people thinking/claiming that they are being logical and rational, when really they aren't.
> ... [the mods] ... usually reply, and it seems they use the feedback to tune the system.
They are the reason the site remains even remotely interesting and useful.
I hoped she has a blog again - but this is only about her books.
It also barely touches on the harassment she encountered that caused her to withdraw from technology and her online presence. The reason that's relevant is I remember her blog fondly, and it's sad we lost someone who was so clearly invested in teaching others.
I hope we can learn from that lesson, though given the negative response I've seen to Codes of Conduct and the calling out of sexism within our industry, I can see growth being a very slow process.
I hope we can learn from that lesson, though given the negative response I've seen to Codes of Conduct and the calling out of sexism within our industry, I can see growth being a very slow process.
I knew that I recognized the name "Kathy Sierra" from somewhere. A bit of searching confirmed that she not only started the amazing "Head First" series, but also the great book "Badass."
I had NO idea that she had been subject to harassment, or that it was so bad (not that it can be good) that she left the industry and removed her online presence.
How incredibly sad for our industry that brilliant, helpful people are pushed out because of such behavior. And how sad that we don't stand up to such bullies more, and stop them from behaving in such terrible ways.
Thanks for mentioning this very important aspect of Sierra's work and life. Her withdrawal from the industry is a loss, and a lesson, for the rest of us.
I had NO idea that she had been subject to harassment, or that it was so bad (not that it can be good) that she left the industry and removed her online presence.
How incredibly sad for our industry that brilliant, helpful people are pushed out because of such behavior. And how sad that we don't stand up to such bullies more, and stop them from behaving in such terrible ways.
Thanks for mentioning this very important aspect of Sierra's work and life. Her withdrawal from the industry is a loss, and a lesson, for the rest of us.
I was oblivious to these happenings. A cursory Google search led me to this, for anyone who's interested:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/daniellecitron/2014/04/27/the-c...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/daniellecitron/2014/04/27/the-c...
Codes of conduct have gone far beyond just not harassing people, trying to cover things like master/slave connectors, blacklists and whitelists and the transgender pronouns. That’s bound to be controversial.
I don’t think there would be many complaints (apart from trolls) about a code of conduct that prohibits the things done to Kathy Sierra; about the only justifiable objection is that this behavior should be covered by the unwritten rules of basic civility instead.
I don’t think there would be many complaints (apart from trolls) about a code of conduct that prohibits the things done to Kathy Sierra; about the only justifiable objection is that this behavior should be covered by the unwritten rules of basic civility instead.
Codes of Conducts shouldn't be necessary to tell people not to break the laws which seems to be what happened here.
Codes of Conduct also has a number of downsides, first and foremost the creation of more meta games.
Also, for the record:
This very site, one of the nicest forums there is, together with lobste.rs and others: none of the have stupid CoCs and they are still among the nicest sites there is.
Codes of Conduct also has a number of downsides, first and foremost the creation of more meta games.
Also, for the record:
This very site, one of the nicest forums there is, together with lobste.rs and others: none of the have stupid CoCs and they are still among the nicest sites there is.
HN has a form of a Code of Conduct (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html), and strong moderation to remove truly bad-faith comments. These two aspects are really important to the level of discourse here.
And while I would say HN is often times civil, I've definitely seen misogynistic or otherwise demeaning comments here.
And while I would say HN is often times civil, I've definitely seen misogynistic or otherwise demeaning comments here.
HNs guidelines are totally OK and the moderators have proven ywar by year how reasonable they are even to us who don't always agree.
If CoC were like HN guidelines and enforced the same way I guess almost nobody worth listening to would care at all if every project had one.
If CoC were like HN guidelines and enforced the same way I guess almost nobody worth listening to would care at all if every project had one.
You should read The Honor Code: How Moral Revolutions Happen by Kwame Anthony Appiah, it talks exactly about why Codes of Conducts are necessary, even for things which are not "breaking the law."
Moral stances have a place.
Moral stances have a place.
So, if they are truly necessary: how comes HN and a number of other places works extremely well without one?
HN has an honor code - it may not be as strong as the "SJW!" trope you have in your mind, but it certainly exists.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
ALl of their guidelines have the same shape as all honor codes: they ask you not to do something that you are, in a strict legalist / absolutist sense, allowed to do.
And then they shame those who violate the rules, and the group codifies that shame in the name of "common" "decency", and those activities no longer happen here in great numbers, despite being "allowed" in the larger sense (they even preface most of the guidelines with "Please" to emphasize the voluntary nature of your choice to submit to the guidelines.)
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
ALl of their guidelines have the same shape as all honor codes: they ask you not to do something that you are, in a strict legalist / absolutist sense, allowed to do.
And then they shame those who violate the rules, and the group codifies that shame in the name of "common" "decency", and those activities no longer happen here in great numbers, despite being "allowed" in the larger sense (they even preface most of the guidelines with "Please" to emphasize the voluntary nature of your choice to submit to the guidelines.)
I don't think this discussion will be productive if different people have a different set of first principles they start with. In this case, I disagree that HN works extremely well. It works well, but there's still a fair amount of misogyny in my experience.
I loved the Head First books, looking back I kind of owe my career to them because these books helped me level up my programming skills from hobby to job. I used to recommend these books all the time to both junior and experienced colleagues.
Summary of article (I estimate some dates):
3 eras of programming books.
1: (1970's) - Booked produced by megacorps (e.g. IBM), and possibly dry content format.
2: (1980's - 1990's) - Rise of Hello World era, books with hello world introductory examples.
3: (2000's) - Effective books - (e.g. effective c++, effective java)
3 eras of programming books.
1: (1970's) - Booked produced by megacorps (e.g. IBM), and possibly dry content format.
2: (1980's - 1990's) - Rise of Hello World era, books with hello world introductory examples.
3: (2000's) - Effective books - (e.g. effective c++, effective java)
> 3: (2000's) - Effective books - (e.g. effective c++, effective java)
The author refers to that as the "2.5 era".
The author refers to that as the "2.5 era".
Thank you for pointing that out, you are right. I had intended to complement with dates with 3 bullet points and missed that fine point.
2.5 era: " ... some might argue that the third era was the “Effective” era, with books such as Meyers’ Effective C++, Bloch’s Effective Java or Wagner’s Effective C# as flagship examples. But I consider these books, as useful as they are, just an offspring of the second era; a much needed upgrade. Let’s say, then, it was the 2.5 era of programming books".
3.0 era: "... at a time where the dot-com boom opened the door for new ideas, right in the middle of the Web 2.0 craze, and right before the rise of the smartphone and social media. Through the use of comic images, unusual text layout, and a fantastic sense of humor, Kathy Sierra argues, readers can learn the concepts easier; tricking the brain into the proper levels of dopamine".
At barnes & nobles / borders I always grabbed one of these books which made content enjoyable to read. She sparked a new era of genres produced by other authors, for example, an anime version of learning python.
2.5 era: " ... some might argue that the third era was the “Effective” era, with books such as Meyers’ Effective C++, Bloch’s Effective Java or Wagner’s Effective C# as flagship examples. But I consider these books, as useful as they are, just an offspring of the second era; a much needed upgrade. Let’s say, then, it was the 2.5 era of programming books".
3.0 era: "... at a time where the dot-com boom opened the door for new ideas, right in the middle of the Web 2.0 craze, and right before the rise of the smartphone and social media. Through the use of comic images, unusual text layout, and a fantastic sense of humor, Kathy Sierra argues, readers can learn the concepts easier; tricking the brain into the proper levels of dopamine".
At barnes & nobles / borders I always grabbed one of these books which made content enjoyable to read. She sparked a new era of genres produced by other authors, for example, an anime version of learning python.
The article closes with this surprising allegation without explaining anything about it. What did these books have to do with harassment, abuse, misogyny and MeToo? I'd be curios to know.
EDIT: Never mind, I've found what I wanted to know: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathy_Sierra#Harassment_and_wi...