Ask HN: Was I right in my decision to turn down offer from Goldman Sachs?
10 comments
I think only you can answer that question. Aside from the ethical reasons, at the end of the day, you should take the steps necessary to achieve your 3, 5, 10 year goals. Any company you work for will have pros and cons for you personally, whether other people believe they are childish or not.
What is it you want to do? What do you want to learn while getting paid? What do you need to get you to where you ultimately want to go? It is like when some asks me if one programming language is better than the other - the most honest answer I have seen anyone give to that question is: It depends on what you are trying to do.
If you want to start your own company one day, and don't like things as formal as they are in large companies, I would encourage you to work for a start up or small company. Things will likely be less formal, and you will likely get the opportunity to do a lot more things since in smaller companies everyone usually has to where more than one hat. Plus, its easier to have a big impact.
Just my two cents.
What is it you want to do? What do you want to learn while getting paid? What do you need to get you to where you ultimately want to go? It is like when some asks me if one programming language is better than the other - the most honest answer I have seen anyone give to that question is: It depends on what you are trying to do.
If you want to start your own company one day, and don't like things as formal as they are in large companies, I would encourage you to work for a start up or small company. Things will likely be less formal, and you will likely get the opportunity to do a lot more things since in smaller companies everyone usually has to where more than one hat. Plus, its easier to have a big impact.
Just my two cents.
[deleted]
You should do what makes you happy, but you should realize that the film "Inside Job" wasn't designed to be an objective overview but rather an attack piece against the financial industry. It's as reliable as a Goldman Sachs press release.
However if you're not comfortable with restriction and tracking, you're right the financial sector probably isn't right for you. The financial sector like the medical and defence sectors are hugely regulated (with good reasons), so computers, etc. tend to be locked down far more than in other sectors.
However if you're not comfortable with restriction and tracking, you're right the financial sector probably isn't right for you. The financial sector like the medical and defence sectors are hugely regulated (with good reasons), so computers, etc. tend to be locked down far more than in other sectors.
Yes, you were right, and I wonder what influences have led you to question whether declining to work for a company for ethical reasons is "childish".
From what I understand about Goldman Sachs, what they do at its most basic level is figure out how to separate people from their money while producing as little actual value as possible, with no regard to the consequences, by pumping smart and productive people full of more money than you could ever spend in a lifetime, then encouraging a culture where all of your coworkers try to do it anyway and you are compelled to join them.
To me, part of maturity (the opposite of 'childishness') is learning to value things other than the immediate fulfillment of your most base desires.
This can be illustrated in simple ways, like when you realize that there are actually good reasons not to eat sugary cereal for every meal, or in your case, when you realize that money alone, even great piles of it, doesn't automatically make a job worthwhile.
In my opinion, the most childish people are the ones at Goldman Sachs, sniffing each other's asses and comparing watches and ties as a measurement of self-worth while they spend the prime of their lives trying to create paper out of thin air so more people can buy more watches and ties.
Good on you for not being one of them. If I were you, I would also contact the highest-up person you can reach and explain why you didn't want to work for them.
From what I understand about Goldman Sachs, what they do at its most basic level is figure out how to separate people from their money while producing as little actual value as possible, with no regard to the consequences, by pumping smart and productive people full of more money than you could ever spend in a lifetime, then encouraging a culture where all of your coworkers try to do it anyway and you are compelled to join them.
To me, part of maturity (the opposite of 'childishness') is learning to value things other than the immediate fulfillment of your most base desires.
This can be illustrated in simple ways, like when you realize that there are actually good reasons not to eat sugary cereal for every meal, or in your case, when you realize that money alone, even great piles of it, doesn't automatically make a job worthwhile.
In my opinion, the most childish people are the ones at Goldman Sachs, sniffing each other's asses and comparing watches and ties as a measurement of self-worth while they spend the prime of their lives trying to create paper out of thin air so more people can buy more watches and ties.
Good on you for not being one of them. If I were you, I would also contact the highest-up person you can reach and explain why you didn't want to work for them.
Based on your reasons, it sounds like while you found the job exciting and cool, you didn't like the culture.
So you went with your gut and made the call to reject the offer. For most people, that is a very acceptable reason to justify to your missing zeros on your paycheck. Right now you're perhaps wondering if you made the right decision -- afterall, Goldmans is creme de la creme no?
Like others have said, only you can answer that. Personally, I have a different take on this. I think early in your career (you sound like you're early in your career), it's all about an information land grab even if it means forgoing short term rewards (like a nice salary). The experiences you gain in the first 3 years of your career will have the most impact on the rest of your career and life. So, my question to you is: are you learning more at this company or do you think you would be learning more at Goldmans?
So you went with your gut and made the call to reject the offer. For most people, that is a very acceptable reason to justify to your missing zeros on your paycheck. Right now you're perhaps wondering if you made the right decision -- afterall, Goldmans is creme de la creme no?
Like others have said, only you can answer that. Personally, I have a different take on this. I think early in your career (you sound like you're early in your career), it's all about an information land grab even if it means forgoing short term rewards (like a nice salary). The experiences you gain in the first 3 years of your career will have the most impact on the rest of your career and life. So, my question to you is: are you learning more at this company or do you think you would be learning more at Goldmans?
I am learning a lot at this company. Main focus for me right now is to learn a lot. I am at early stage of my career and working on something exciting and new everyday is more fun than a fat paycheck. (EDIT: Question - Am I getting too emotional with this stuff, and is money more Important?)
I am good at stuff, and feel that I will jump to a higher paying job whenever required in the future. For now I want to stick to what I love to do. :D
I am good at stuff, and feel that I will jump to a higher paying job whenever required in the future. For now I want to stick to what I love to do. :D
I'm gonna mindf*ck you a bit by saying: you didn't answer the question :)
I am learning a lot here, definitely !
I can't undermine the financial knowledge I got at GS.
I can't undermine the financial knowledge I got at GS.
Are you learning more at your present job or do you think you were learning more at GS?
Present job.
If you made the decision then it's the right choice. The only 'wrong' choices are those you don't learn from.
Let's look at the opportunity cost of you leaving. You get to do something more significant to you that's more valuable. And also, someone else (who may actually want it) new gets an offer from Goldman Sachs. So you're helping that new person and (probably) helping yourself too.
"I am happy with my current job." - can't go wrong there!
Disclaimer: the following opinion is only my opinion and does not reflect anyone else on HN or the internet in any way shape or form:
I respect that you found yourself unable to accept a job there given your ethical stance.
I cannot put the following sentiment in harsh enough terms: I think the company is full of utter scumbags who should all be in prison or worse.
Good on you.
I respect that you found yourself unable to accept a job there given your ethical stance.
I cannot put the following sentiment in harsh enough terms: I think the company is full of utter scumbags who should all be in prison or worse.
Good on you.
No offense and I don't know your background or association with Goldmans but this sounds like a kneejerk reaction to populist sentiment.
The existence of practices that goes on at Goldmans and every other IB is a symptom of a deeper underlying problem. You really have to question the foundations of a system that has enabled such institutions to come into play.
The existence of practices that goes on at Goldmans and every other IB is a symptom of a deeper underlying problem. You really have to question the foundations of a system that has enabled such institutions to come into play.
Totally agree with you - I have followed the frauds and underlying issues in our system for a very long time.
I am not some newly enraged random who just saw Inside Job and got upset -- I have been actively using my skills of observation and discernment on the presented reality that is 'the system' for a long time and summarily disgusted/disheartened.
I am not some newly enraged random who just saw Inside Job and got upset -- I have been actively using my skills of observation and discernment on the presented reality that is 'the system' for a long time and summarily disgusted/disheartened.
So why do you think, say the staff at GS who worked 100-hour weeks doing due diligence on Google prior to their IPO to ensure it's success are scumbags who should be in prison?
Working there was good, but throughout my work I had confusion regarding these: 1. People were way too professional. 2. I was tightly following what Goldman had done during recession. I felt it was ethically wrong (watch "Inside Job"). Result, I was not able to feel myself as a part of Company. 3. There were too much restrictions on employees. Surveillances were running on our accounts. Everything was tracked etc. etc.
On other side I must say that their technology was great. The size of data they process everyday is marvelous. But finally, after a lot of thought I rejected the final offer from their side. Right now I am working in a big company, with relatively less compensation. I am happy with my current job.
I still stand on my decision. Just want to know your opinion about the same. Was I too childish raising above questions in my mind?