Gen Yers lack confidence, behave like idiots(thegig.blogs.fortune.cnn.com)
thegig.blogs.fortune.cnn.com
Gen Yers lack confidence, behave like idiots
http://thegig.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/04/16/gen-yers-lack-confidence-behave-like-idiots/
40 comments
Maybe it's this perpetual chastising by the older generations that gradually "teaches" the younger generations. What if the older generations never said this sort of stuff? Would the younger generation never grow out of it? Just wondering. I'm a 23yr old myself.
That quote is often trotted out but all it actually means that is at some point in history, people thought that the kids of today are soft. It doesn't imply any continuity between that thought then and the same thought now.
Maybe there is something to it. All of the great civilizations eventually collapsed.
I agree -- the logic is inescapable: Complaining about kids brings about the collapse of civilization. :)
Get off my lawn!
Whatever. Living with your parents in your 20s is disgusting, sir.
Living with your parents if you're lazy or a freeloader is lame. There are countless good reasons beyond those to live with your parents if they're cool with it. What's disgusting about that? I lived with my parents until I was finished my degree when I was 24. I've had friends who hit tough times move back home to get back on their feet (who were accepted with open arms). I've had other friends stay home longer than I did because their goals did not bring them the financial benefits of others and it took longer to become self-sufficient. Their parents were more than happy to support them when they did not have the means to achieve their goals on their own. I don't personally find any of this disgusting.
Listen to yourself. You could be speaking Chinese right now with a similar effect. If my dog could understand (and speak) your language, he could have explained why licking his own balls isn't disgusting. He's cool with it.
You know, I'm not sure if that was meant to be harsh of if you're just joking around, but I don't even care... that's damn funny stuff either way. I know most people don't like the biting responses, but that was gold.
Man, this ain't real life, it's only Internet and my name isn't "tx" :) Besides, I lived with my pops in my 20s myself and speaking from experience. (I hated it).
It is a rare day when a HN comment makes me laugh out loud. Here is your plus one karma. Don't spend it all in one place.
Hah, at least 10 HN'yers are sucking on mama's milk in their twenties while dreaming of becoming .com-millionaires. Hey, how about starting to pay your own rent as a first step towards world domination? :)
Another "everyone in the same age group is the same" post.
All boomers are...
All Gen Xers are...
All Gen Yers are...
Yeah, right.
This is just an excuse for lazy journalism (is there any other kind any more?)
Would have been nice if the author dug a little deeper to try to understand why none of the 7 people answered the phone. To his credit, he brought up several good points:
"They’re trained to work in teams — in school, in extracurriculars"
My theory (even though I'm no more qualified than anyone else):
For many young people, playing on a sports team has replaced the part time job. There was a time when you had to work if you wanted a car, insurance, or money for college. Not so necessary now.
Responsibility to one's teammates has replaced "getting the work done". I have always thought that real responsibility is learned "on the job". Delay work, delay responsibility.
Even in this community, there's a tendency to try to solve problems in our own little vacuum. Here's what I think... I read somewhere... Things oughta work like... As a hacker, I'm just as guilty as anyone else; it's so easy to try to "think" things through.
Then I stop and say, "Find a customer." (Or find a job.) Once you have to really serve others in need, the "issues" cited by the OP melt away.
All boomers are...
All Gen Xers are...
All Gen Yers are...
Yeah, right.
This is just an excuse for lazy journalism (is there any other kind any more?)
Would have been nice if the author dug a little deeper to try to understand why none of the 7 people answered the phone. To his credit, he brought up several good points:
"They’re trained to work in teams — in school, in extracurriculars"
My theory (even though I'm no more qualified than anyone else):
For many young people, playing on a sports team has replaced the part time job. There was a time when you had to work if you wanted a car, insurance, or money for college. Not so necessary now.
Responsibility to one's teammates has replaced "getting the work done". I have always thought that real responsibility is learned "on the job". Delay work, delay responsibility.
Even in this community, there's a tendency to try to solve problems in our own little vacuum. Here's what I think... I read somewhere... Things oughta work like... As a hacker, I'm just as guilty as anyone else; it's so easy to try to "think" things through.
Then I stop and say, "Find a customer." (Or find a job.) Once you have to really serve others in need, the "issues" cited by the OP melt away.
"I have always thought that real responsibility is learned "on the job". Delay work, delay responsibility."
Amen to that one. My grandfather invested some money on my behalf when I was born, so when I graduated from college, I burned through $10K of it without a second thought. Then I finally swallowed my pride, got a job working minimum wage, and suddenly gained new appreciation for the value of money. Discovering that buying lunch is essentially equivalent to eating an hour's worth of work will do that.
It's also easy to post on Slashdot "what a whiner!" whenever a story comes up about $OSS_SOFTWARE not fulfilling $BUSINESS_NEED. That's another perspective that disappears quickly when working for a real business. You really do need to be making money to have a viable business (long-term), and no amount of idealism changes that.
If I could go back and give myself one piece of advice, it would be "get a crappy job before you're 22."
Amen to that one. My grandfather invested some money on my behalf when I was born, so when I graduated from college, I burned through $10K of it without a second thought. Then I finally swallowed my pride, got a job working minimum wage, and suddenly gained new appreciation for the value of money. Discovering that buying lunch is essentially equivalent to eating an hour's worth of work will do that.
It's also easy to post on Slashdot "what a whiner!" whenever a story comes up about $OSS_SOFTWARE not fulfilling $BUSINESS_NEED. That's another perspective that disappears quickly when working for a real business. You really do need to be making money to have a viable business (long-term), and no amount of idealism changes that.
If I could go back and give myself one piece of advice, it would be "get a crappy job before you're 22."
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I don't see "All Gen Yers" in the article.
"Gen Yers lack confidence" without further qualification means "All Gen Yers lack confidence".
Gramatically perhaps, but in context these sorts of statements about the personal characteristics of groups of people are generally understood to be generalizations.
"Ravens are black" ==> "All ravens are black"
"Germans like beer" ==> "Germans have a significantly greater tendency to like beer than people in general, though of course there are some non-beer-liking Germans"
It could be an interesting question in linguistics to figure out the difference between the two types of "Xes are Y" sentence.
"Ravens are black" ==> "All ravens are black"
"Germans like beer" ==> "Germans have a significantly greater tendency to like beer than people in general, though of course there are some non-beer-liking Germans"
It could be an interesting question in linguistics to figure out the difference between the two types of "Xes are Y" sentence.
Didn't I read the same article back in 1993?
One thing that the article does get right is that people are treated and act like adolescents until their 30's or even 40's and it's now considered socially acceptable (to a point).
But that's a longterm demographic and cultural trend that's been going on since World War II.
One thing that the article does get right is that people are treated and act like adolescents until their 30's or even 40's and it's now considered socially acceptable (to a point).
But that's a longterm demographic and cultural trend that's been going on since World War II.
There is an important demographic shift happening, and anyone starting a business that rides a large social wave would be wise to pay attention to it.
In the 1980s and 1990s, the younger generation was put down as cynical, slackers, no good, apathetic, criminal, etc. They were seen as too individualistic, not group-oriented enough. The Gen Y generational put-downs are new: too group-oriented, lacking individual initiative, too nice, "coddled", etc. There's underlying truth in both kinds of put-down, even if (of course) they don't apply to every person in each generation. As Gen Y gets older, the optimism, group orientation, and lack of individual initiative will become even more clear. For one thing, they'll seek strong leadership from government. And of course, the changing demographic will both create and destroy business opportunities.
Strauss 7 Howe's books _Generations_ and _The Fourth Turning_ make a lot of interesting observations (and predictions) about this.
In the 1980s and 1990s, the younger generation was put down as cynical, slackers, no good, apathetic, criminal, etc. They were seen as too individualistic, not group-oriented enough. The Gen Y generational put-downs are new: too group-oriented, lacking individual initiative, too nice, "coddled", etc. There's underlying truth in both kinds of put-down, even if (of course) they don't apply to every person in each generation. As Gen Y gets older, the optimism, group orientation, and lack of individual initiative will become even more clear. For one thing, they'll seek strong leadership from government. And of course, the changing demographic will both create and destroy business opportunities.
Strauss 7 Howe's books _Generations_ and _The Fourth Turning_ make a lot of interesting observations (and predictions) about this.
The professor might also be an overbearing tool bag or the class might not be particularly worth the effort (I've had a few of these). Anecdotal evidence like this is junk.
My dad showed me his report card from Kindergarten once. He barely passed because "Eddie has trouble whistling and skipping in a straight line." When he got in to Dylan, it was all over for his potential as a productive and intelligent human.
Of course, he's a published author and editor of poetry, novels and non-fiction, humor columnist, wilderness advocate, sometimes environmental lobbyist, motivational speaker and researcher/writer/editor for the beautifully designed black-bordered brochures you get at our national parks.
And still loves Dylan (Bob and Thomas). And he's my hero. And he figured out how to whistle and skip in line somewhere along the way.
My dad showed me his report card from Kindergarten once. He barely passed because "Eddie has trouble whistling and skipping in a straight line." When he got in to Dylan, it was all over for his potential as a productive and intelligent human.
Of course, he's a published author and editor of poetry, novels and non-fiction, humor columnist, wilderness advocate, sometimes environmental lobbyist, motivational speaker and researcher/writer/editor for the beautifully designed black-bordered brochures you get at our national parks.
And still loves Dylan (Bob and Thomas). And he's my hero. And he figured out how to whistle and skip in line somewhere along the way.
I wish people would talk about "people" instead of senseless "generational" gaps. Although of course you are going to be shaped by common experiences of your generation (let's say 9/11, Iraq War, etc. for my generation) and the social (gay rights, black/woman potential president, etc.) and technological changes (grew up with computers and the internet) that are occurring during your time period, you are shaped much more by your friends, parents, education, life experiences, location, and realistically the socio-economic status you were born into.
Some PEOPLE are confident. Some PEOPLE are not. Maybe it's just because I happen to attend a top university that is highly competitive, but I don't commonly see this lack of confidence. Although, at the same point as a generation gets older and matures in it's occupational field, of course it is going to become more confident.
People = People. We are much more alike than we are different. That's what makes classics, classics throughout centuries not just generations. It's because they relate to all PEOPLE.
Some PEOPLE are confident. Some PEOPLE are not. Maybe it's just because I happen to attend a top university that is highly competitive, but I don't commonly see this lack of confidence. Although, at the same point as a generation gets older and matures in it's occupational field, of course it is going to become more confident.
People = People. We are much more alike than we are different. That's what makes classics, classics throughout centuries not just generations. It's because they relate to all PEOPLE.
I forget what the cognitive bias is called, but the gist is ignoring similarities and magnifying differences. It's a prime motivator in negative race relations too.
Oh cool, another one of those 'them darn yunguns ain't made right' articles!
“Because this generation has been so coddled,” says Michael Wilder, pointing to Yers’ ever-present boomer parents, “when they do have to make a decision on their own, they’re looking for affirmation. They have no basic experience to allow them to be confident about the decisions they’re making.”
Heh, so you mean we're babies because our parents weren't drunks that beat us every night? Come and see my family, we are all emotionally isolated and not even remotely touchy-feely.
It's really nothing new. Just some dude writing an article about how he hates herd mentality.
Oh, and a handy counterpoint from the same magazine. Maybe those old fogeys can't believe in a world where the company is expected to screw you over and a steady job means a life of missed opportunities: http://thegig.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/05/30/job-hopping-g...
“Because this generation has been so coddled,” says Michael Wilder, pointing to Yers’ ever-present boomer parents, “when they do have to make a decision on their own, they’re looking for affirmation. They have no basic experience to allow them to be confident about the decisions they’re making.”
Heh, so you mean we're babies because our parents weren't drunks that beat us every night? Come and see my family, we are all emotionally isolated and not even remotely touchy-feely.
It's really nothing new. Just some dude writing an article about how he hates herd mentality.
Oh, and a handy counterpoint from the same magazine. Maybe those old fogeys can't believe in a world where the company is expected to screw you over and a steady job means a life of missed opportunities: http://thegig.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/05/30/job-hopping-g...
He got it right - they're idiots. A roomful of people sitting around a ringing phone - sheesh!
What surprises me is the lengths that people will go to in attempting to justify the groups' actions, especially on the blog.
What surprises me is the lengths that people will go to in attempting to justify the groups' actions, especially on the blog.
It's hard to compare generations, as you are inevitably comparing observations on the current generation with memories about previous generations.
Memories are always distorted by the passing of time.
Gen X-ers have too much confidence, write idiotic "news" articles
Interesting premise and anecdotes, but where's the evidence?
Get offa my lawn!
What is the average age/generation of a HN reader? I'd like to think Gen Y and I'd sure as anything bet they are the most confident of their close group of friends/colleagues. What do you think?
I'm 23 and this continual stereotype of my generation as "clueless" or "timid" is just absurd.
I'm 23 and this continual stereotype of my generation as "clueless" or "timid" is just absurd.
I'm 21. I've got significant confidence. I'm also very assertive. Roll those character traits together with my perpetual boredom in class, and I wind up speaking out a lot. Every since high school, I was always the student to speak my opinion first and throw in my 2 cents every chance I got. As a result, I'm not well liked by instructors and some portion of students (typically those with differing views). I'm quite glad I just graduated.
I've made some very unpopular statements in philosophy, government, or similar classes wrought with highly debated topics. In about 8 years of this, not one person has spoken up in agreement with me during class. In fact, I've publicly asked the class "doesn't anyone agree with me?" several times. Not a single hand has ever gone up.
However, on numerous occasions, I have had peers come up to me after class and thank me for voicing an opinion they shared. I can think of 3 reasons for the refusal to do this publicly.
1) Students (or employees) are conditioned not to challenge the views of their instructor (or manager) -- it is in the best interest of their GPA (or career)
2) It seems that there is a expectation that unpopular ideas are held by unpopular people. It is socially safer to keep your opinions to yourself.
3) When someone is in trouble and only one person is there to see it, that person feels compelled to help. When someone is in trouble and there is a crowd watching, it is often far longer before someone steps up to help because no one feels that they are responsible.
I've made some very unpopular statements in philosophy, government, or similar classes wrought with highly debated topics. In about 8 years of this, not one person has spoken up in agreement with me during class. In fact, I've publicly asked the class "doesn't anyone agree with me?" several times. Not a single hand has ever gone up.
However, on numerous occasions, I have had peers come up to me after class and thank me for voicing an opinion they shared. I can think of 3 reasons for the refusal to do this publicly.
1) Students (or employees) are conditioned not to challenge the views of their instructor (or manager) -- it is in the best interest of their GPA (or career)
2) It seems that there is a expectation that unpopular ideas are held by unpopular people. It is socially safer to keep your opinions to yourself.
3) When someone is in trouble and only one person is there to see it, that person feels compelled to help. When someone is in trouble and there is a crowd watching, it is often far longer before someone steps up to help because no one feels that they are responsible.
I've had the same thing happen, no support in class, then afterwards people come up to me and ask me about further reading on the subject/unpopular opinion.
try this on for size in a government class sometime: the founding fathers were terrorist tax evaders and democracy is a stupid idea. People have no idea how to react, it hurts their brain to go that far outside "normal thinking".
try this on for size in a government class sometime: the founding fathers were terrorist tax evaders and democracy is a stupid idea. People have no idea how to react, it hurts their brain to go that far outside "normal thinking".
That's a shame. Academia exists to challenge traditional thinking.
Well made points.
Just keep this in mind: you can voice your opinion at anytime as well as be proactive. You just need to make sure you thought about what and how you're going to say it well in advance. Acting on pure emotions and not some form of strategy can get you in trouble.
Just keep this in mind: you can voice your opinion at anytime as well as be proactive. You just need to make sure you thought about what and how you're going to say it well in advance. Acting on pure emotions and not some form of strategy can get you in trouble.
> He — an Xer — was running late for a meeting, and
Let us all learn to be responsible adults, like Generation X!
Let us all learn to be responsible adults, like Generation X!
Answering others' phones, with unknown callers, is one of those responsibilities that low-ranking workers always prefer to pass on to someone else. Answering phones sucks. The downside is that one might inadvertently offend an important person. ("[Y] speaking." "Hi, this is [X]." "Who are you?" "Your new boss, as of Monday, actually." "Oh.") There's no upside to answering, since responsibility for non-answering is diffused. So the phone is not answered.
There's also conditioning at play. Remember the Grey Phone of Death, in high school? The one that usually carried calls to and from the principal's office, which you could get an in-school suspension for using without permission? Yeah, that phone.
There's also conditioning at play. Remember the Grey Phone of Death, in high school? The one that usually carried calls to and from the principal's office, which you could get an in-school suspension for using without permission? Yeah, that phone.
We think you Boomers are stupid too.
http://thinkexist.com/quotes/hesiod/
I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on the frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words. When I was a boy, we were taught to be discrete and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise and impatient of restraint.
~700 BC