Ask HN: 99designs or crowdspring for large-format illustration work?
11 comments
I co-founded crowdSPRING. Illustration projects are perfectly appropriate crowdsourcing projects (we've done many for startups, big Brands and some of the world's best agencies). Let me offer a few suggestions that should help you get a good result regardless of where you post your project:
1. Be sensitive to your budget if the illustration is complex. Many people forget that illustrations can be rather complex - and you're talking about a large illustration (which might have many components and may need to interface with other on-page elements). You'll attract better illustrators if you can stretch your budget a bit (depending on complexity, of course).
2. Limit initial scope. If you ultimately need a full page illustration, you might initially ask for an illustration of a portion and then narrow your selections and ask a few people to show you more complete illustrations. Asking everyone to do full page illustrations - especially if your budget is modest - might limit the number of participants.
3. Identify styles you like. Even more important than sketching your idea is a reference for the types of illustrations you like. Many illustrators have a particular style and if you can be clear at the beginning, you'll help them focus on showing examples of work that you're more likely to like - rather than just take stabs in the dark submitting random illustration styles.
I hope these are helpful and wish you luck with the illustration (and your MVP!)
Ross
1. Be sensitive to your budget if the illustration is complex. Many people forget that illustrations can be rather complex - and you're talking about a large illustration (which might have many components and may need to interface with other on-page elements). You'll attract better illustrators if you can stretch your budget a bit (depending on complexity, of course).
2. Limit initial scope. If you ultimately need a full page illustration, you might initially ask for an illustration of a portion and then narrow your selections and ask a few people to show you more complete illustrations. Asking everyone to do full page illustrations - especially if your budget is modest - might limit the number of participants.
3. Identify styles you like. Even more important than sketching your idea is a reference for the types of illustrations you like. Many illustrators have a particular style and if you can be clear at the beginning, you'll help them focus on showing examples of work that you're more likely to like - rather than just take stabs in the dark submitting random illustration styles.
I hope these are helpful and wish you luck with the illustration (and your MVP!)
Ross
Check out http://upstack.com for illustrations, we have some stellar illustrators looking for work. Everything is done without spec work and the designers have to be approved to work so the quality is great.
I once paid Inkd.com for logos, and they did a great job, so I hired them for a 3rd. The person responsible for making my logo good in the past, had left to go solo, and I ended up with shitty logos that I had to send back.
Lesson learned: use them, and sometimes you'll have success and the name of a designer that you can count on. In most other cases, you'll be wasting your cash.
There's a lot of talent to be found on freelance sites like Elance or oDesk if you know how to look.
Lesson learned: use them, and sometimes you'll have success and the name of a designer that you can count on. In most other cases, you'll be wasting your cash.
There's a lot of talent to be found on freelance sites like Elance or oDesk if you know how to look.
I've heard some bad things about 99designs too. While I've not done this, it may be worth looking through dribbble.com to find a few designers that have done something you like, and get in touch with them. They're generally excellent designers - I have no idea how much they'd charge, but could be worth asking.
Hi,
Matt Mickiewicz here, co-founder of 99designs.
I would highly encourage you to give us a try... the key to success with our model is engagement & feedback with the designers. We're never the absolute cheapest option (we charge minimimum $295 for a logo and there's sites like 20dollarlogos and 50dollarlogos.com out there) but what you get is the viewpoints, interpretations, and skills from a wide variety of designers.
We've done over 55,000 projects, including some awesome work for Mashable (http://mashable.99designs.com), SxSW (http://99designs.com/sxsw), the logo for StackOverflow.com, official t-shirts for the San Francisco & LA Marathons and tons of other cool projects. Even took home a Webby Award for Best Web Service in 2010.
Heck - we even did the original CrowdSPRING logo: http://99designs.com/contests/321 .
Feel free to drop us an email or call our office if you have any questions.
Matt Mickiewicz here, co-founder of 99designs.
I would highly encourage you to give us a try... the key to success with our model is engagement & feedback with the designers. We're never the absolute cheapest option (we charge minimimum $295 for a logo and there's sites like 20dollarlogos and 50dollarlogos.com out there) but what you get is the viewpoints, interpretations, and skills from a wide variety of designers.
We've done over 55,000 projects, including some awesome work for Mashable (http://mashable.99designs.com), SxSW (http://99designs.com/sxsw), the logo for StackOverflow.com, official t-shirts for the San Francisco & LA Marathons and tons of other cool projects. Even took home a Webby Award for Best Web Service in 2010.
Heck - we even did the original CrowdSPRING logo: http://99designs.com/contests/321 .
Feel free to drop us an email or call our office if you have any questions.
As a designer I hate 99designs and similar sites. They completely rip off designers. Instead, find a designer you like, or post a job offer, here even, and pay them. If you can, stay away from 99designs.
How would you, as a designer, recommend people get low-budget work done?
Is it that most of the designers don't get paid at all or the lowish price that the winner gets that offends?
There is a huge appeal in having a designer "try out" - I've been burned by designers who couldn't get the work done to my satisfaction. It was a waste of my time and money. It would have been very easy to weed them out with a simple "audition". This seems entirely legitimate to me. I've ben asked to write code prior to getting a job, for example.
As for price, I've been quoted $3k-5k for a logo and $15k for 4 pages of html. That is never going to happen. I might pay $2-300 for a very good logo, and maybe $1500-2000 for a very good set of HTML pages. That is simply the value I place on the services.
I hate to be the guy who doesn't respect creative talent, but I can't ignore what the marketplace is telling me. Designers really seem to hate the crowdsourcing model, and I want to work on terms that they like, but how? Saying "pay me more and take the risk that I won't work out" is not good enough - as evidenced by the success of 99 designs, et al. If designers want people to abandon crowdsourcing, they need to come up with a better low-budget alternative.
Is it that most of the designers don't get paid at all or the lowish price that the winner gets that offends?
There is a huge appeal in having a designer "try out" - I've been burned by designers who couldn't get the work done to my satisfaction. It was a waste of my time and money. It would have been very easy to weed them out with a simple "audition". This seems entirely legitimate to me. I've ben asked to write code prior to getting a job, for example.
As for price, I've been quoted $3k-5k for a logo and $15k for 4 pages of html. That is never going to happen. I might pay $2-300 for a very good logo, and maybe $1500-2000 for a very good set of HTML pages. That is simply the value I place on the services.
I hate to be the guy who doesn't respect creative talent, but I can't ignore what the marketplace is telling me. Designers really seem to hate the crowdsourcing model, and I want to work on terms that they like, but how? Saying "pay me more and take the risk that I won't work out" is not good enough - as evidenced by the success of 99 designs, et al. If designers want people to abandon crowdsourcing, they need to come up with a better low-budget alternative.
I think there's a lot of range within design work so a smaller step up gets you exponentially better work. For example, $250 logo may be 10 times better than a $25 logo but a $2,500 logo might only be 1.5 or 2 times as good as the $250 one.
$15,000 for 4 pages of HTML is ridiculous, as is $150 for 4 pages. $1,500 should get you amazing work. I do a lot of work coding design to HTML/CSS and without being over-confident, I'd classify my skill in HTML and CSS as expert level. I charge around $200-$250 a page if coding directly from a PSD or image to HTML/CSS. Charging 15 to 20 times as much? I struggle to understand it.
If you want a designer on a mid-low budget, you can try Elance or oDesk, but set the hourly price you're looking for at $30-$50. There are good designers using those services but you need to get their attention.
$15,000 for 4 pages of HTML is ridiculous, as is $150 for 4 pages. $1,500 should get you amazing work. I do a lot of work coding design to HTML/CSS and without being over-confident, I'd classify my skill in HTML and CSS as expert level. I charge around $200-$250 a page if coding directly from a PSD or image to HTML/CSS. Charging 15 to 20 times as much? I struggle to understand it.
If you want a designer on a mid-low budget, you can try Elance or oDesk, but set the hourly price you're looking for at $30-$50. There are good designers using those services but you need to get their attention.
I'm well aware of the issues that some designers have with 99designs and such. I have sent briefs to recommended local designers, but they're either unwilling to work within my budget, or ask for unworkable terms (e.g. no revisions).
Given that, I don't see how I have any other recourse. So far, the traditional designer/client relationship certainly hasn't served me well.
Given that, I don't see how I have any other recourse. So far, the traditional designer/client relationship certainly hasn't served me well.
I guess that depends on where the designer lives. There are some incredibly talented and experienced designers in developing countries and they obviously don't request the same pay as, say, a designer in the USA.
This seems like the perfect place for 99designs or crowdspring. From browsing the contests on each site now, it seems like 99designs has more high-quality stuff in their "other" category vs. crowdspring's "illustration" category, but that might be a transient situation.
I'd love to hear any words of advice as to which site I should use for a project like this, which seems like it's not quite in the mainstream of "crowdsourcing" projects. Alternatively, maybe there's another similar site that I'm not aware of that is more appropriate for illustration work, rather than e.g. logos, web design, etc. FWIW, my budget is probably going to land in the $500 area.