Fire shuts down cell towers in CA(mobile.twitter.com)
mobile.twitter.com
Fire shuts down cell towers in CA
https://mobile.twitter.com/lisamkrieger/status/1189042580685611009
4 comments
While PG&E is responsible for a lot of things; their past decisions to not adequately inspect/maintain transmission lines makes them responsible for a lot of the expenses and damages caused by the resulting blackouts.
However, cell towers (and telephones in general) are important infrastructure. They should have been designed and maintained with the expectation that power failures will happen and failed safely over to battery/generator backup power.
The traditional POTS infrastructure was[1] designed to work without power for weeks. That involved no only battery backup, but also longer-lasting backup power (e.g. big tanks of diesel) for when the batteries ran out. Cell towers going down when the power was out for a few days is evidence that those towers were not designed to be critical infrastructure and shouldn't be used as a replacement for POTS or other actually-reliable communication methods.
[1] I have no idea if that reliability still exists, or if AT&T ruined that reliability in the name of "efficiency" and profit.
However, cell towers (and telephones in general) are important infrastructure. They should have been designed and maintained with the expectation that power failures will happen and failed safely over to battery/generator backup power.
The traditional POTS infrastructure was[1] designed to work without power for weeks. That involved no only battery backup, but also longer-lasting backup power (e.g. big tanks of diesel) for when the batteries ran out. Cell towers going down when the power was out for a few days is evidence that those towers were not designed to be critical infrastructure and shouldn't be used as a replacement for POTS or other actually-reliable communication methods.
[1] I have no idea if that reliability still exists, or if AT&T ruined that reliability in the name of "efficiency" and profit.
> The traditional POTS infrastructure was[1] designed to work without power for weeks. That involved no only battery backup, but also longer-lasting backup power (e.g. big tanks of diesel) for when the batteries ran out.
> [1] I have no idea if that reliability still exists, or if AT&T ruined that reliability in the name of "efficiency" and profit.
This is addressed in the article. It's unclear to me whether AT&T lines go down due to external power failure, but other providers don't use powered lines:
> Residents said even their once-reliable landlines and Internet, such as those operated by Frontier Communications, weren’t working. Comcast/Xfinity also was down.
> In the era of traditional phone service, Ma Bell’s lines were themselves energized and very reliable.
> But companies’ transition to Voice over Internet Protocol (VOIP) – with phone calls over the Internet – is dependent on outside electricity. VOIP calls fail when either the company’s facility or the resident’s home lacks backup power.
> Comcast customers lose service where the power is out at their home, because the services need energy to operate, according to Comcast’s Joan Hammel. Comcast service also stops if power is disrupted elsewhere in the network, she said. Comcast’s service, like all other companies who have transitioned to Voice over Internet Protocol (VOIP) telephony, fails when either the company’s facility or the resident’s home lacks backup power.
> “Like all PG&E customers, we are also affected by this power shutdown, said Vince Bitong of AT&T. “We are aware that service for some customers may be affected and we continue to move quickly to keep our customers, FirstNet subscribers and public safety agencies connected.”
> [1] I have no idea if that reliability still exists, or if AT&T ruined that reliability in the name of "efficiency" and profit.
This is addressed in the article. It's unclear to me whether AT&T lines go down due to external power failure, but other providers don't use powered lines:
> Residents said even their once-reliable landlines and Internet, such as those operated by Frontier Communications, weren’t working. Comcast/Xfinity also was down.
> In the era of traditional phone service, Ma Bell’s lines were themselves energized and very reliable.
> But companies’ transition to Voice over Internet Protocol (VOIP) – with phone calls over the Internet – is dependent on outside electricity. VOIP calls fail when either the company’s facility or the resident’s home lacks backup power.
> Comcast customers lose service where the power is out at their home, because the services need energy to operate, according to Comcast’s Joan Hammel. Comcast service also stops if power is disrupted elsewhere in the network, she said. Comcast’s service, like all other companies who have transitioned to Voice over Internet Protocol (VOIP) telephony, fails when either the company’s facility or the resident’s home lacks backup power.
> “Like all PG&E customers, we are also affected by this power shutdown, said Vince Bitong of AT&T. “We are aware that service for some customers may be affected and we continue to move quickly to keep our customers, FirstNet subscribers and public safety agencies connected.”
Aren't cell towers supposed to have battery backup for several days as part of the deal for having been granted spectrum?
We had similar issues when power went out in San Diego and took down most of the radio stations which are considered part of the emergency network. Until somebody actually lands in jail for not maintaining lawfully mandated emergency readiness, this kind of crap will continue.
We had similar issues when power went out in San Diego and took down most of the radio stations which are considered part of the emergency network. Until somebody actually lands in jail for not maintaining lawfully mandated emergency readiness, this kind of crap will continue.
There was calls for this after Hurricane Katrina but...
> Federal regulators have rejected proposed changes by the Federal Communications Commission that would require all U.S. cell phone towers to have at least eight hours of backup power.
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-cell-towers-fcc-12... (court challenge was CTIA Wireless Assn v. FCC, et al, No. 07-1475 (D.C. Cir. 2008))
The current regulations only cover fixed line or fixed-line-like wireless services https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/12.5
> Federal regulators have rejected proposed changes by the Federal Communications Commission that would require all U.S. cell phone towers to have at least eight hours of backup power.
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-cell-towers-fcc-12... (court challenge was CTIA Wireless Assn v. FCC, et al, No. 07-1475 (D.C. Cir. 2008))
The current regulations only cover fixed line or fixed-line-like wireless services https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/12.5
Batteries have to be maintained and that would be a very counter productive use of a lot of money.
A better solution is to require cell phone manufactures with over one million installed units in a given region to include an AM radio feature, even if it only enables when there is no cell service for a while. I know that some AM stations were taken out along with cell towers, but AM signals travel far and there is no doubt that many with an AM receiver in those areas could at least receive a broadcast from out of the area, especially if the local stations are not broadcasting interference. For extra credit, include auto Morse code detection (for even longer range broadcasts and also hearing impaired).
A better solution is to require cell phone manufactures with over one million installed units in a given region to include an AM radio feature, even if it only enables when there is no cell service for a while. I know that some AM stations were taken out along with cell towers, but AM signals travel far and there is no doubt that many with an AM receiver in those areas could at least receive a broadcast from out of the area, especially if the local stations are not broadcasting interference. For extra credit, include auto Morse code detection (for even longer range broadcasts and also hearing impaired).
I never saw a cell phone with an AM receiver, only FM receivers; there might be some technical reason why AM receivers on phones are harder. Perhaps it might be because AM uses AFAIK lower frequencies than FM (phones with FM receivers already have to use the headphone wire as the antenna, and lower frequencies need longer antennas).
Over forty years ago I had a transistor AM radio that fit in a shirt pocket. I would use it to listen to WXL in Chicago from my Indianapolis area home some 200 miles away. Despite holding an amateur radio license, I have no idea about the antenna design in that radio. I do know that it worked.
So I don’t know if it’s a matter of antennas, or a matter of “who listens to AM anymore?”
So I don’t know if it’s a matter of antennas, or a matter of “who listens to AM anymore?”
Hell, mandate FM too, it can't be hard. Many "Message to the Public" systems in the world use FM.
> they're down because PG&E decided they shouldn't be up
That doesn't clear things up.
That doesn't clear things up.
That's the point. There isn't a good reason for them to be down. Fire hasn't shut them down. No circumstance other than whimsy has shut them down.
The HN title isn't even taken from the page, and yet -- somehow -- it's still up in all its totally inaccurate glory.
The HN title isn't even taken from the page, and yet -- somehow -- it's still up in all its totally inaccurate glory.
Suggest a better title and will edit!
"874 cell towers down in CA"
While I'm grousing, the HN link is to a tweet that just links https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/10/28/why-you-cant-make-cel... ; unless we're really interested in the reply tweets, the Mercury News link might be a better target.
While I'm grousing, the HN link is to a tweet that just links https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/10/28/why-you-cant-make-cel... ; unless we're really interested in the reply tweets, the Mercury News link might be a better target.
Agreed, this is better, though I might add ", wildfires implicated". TIL one cannot edit posts and change links, unless I am missing something. Thought I could but maybe that is before it gets votes.
Firefighters (or others) could set up a "no-frills" base station on their truck.
These systems include a power generator, servers, and a 2G GSM base station for ranges of about 10km.
They don't even require any Internet connection, since their only purpose is to allow emergency calls and SMS. Any cell phone can set up an emergency call then - no need for a special SIM card.
Vodafone has a humanitarian mission that sets up these systems all over the world. (They're using Huawei, though)
https://www.gsma.com/mobilefordevelopment/resources/mobile-n...
These systems include a power generator, servers, and a 2G GSM base station for ranges of about 10km.
They don't even require any Internet connection, since their only purpose is to allow emergency calls and SMS. Any cell phone can set up an emergency call then - no need for a special SIM card.
Vodafone has a humanitarian mission that sets up these systems all over the world. (They're using Huawei, though)
https://www.gsma.com/mobilefordevelopment/resources/mobile-n...
PodRunner by Rescue 42 (no affiliation) in Chico, California is assembling devices designed for precisely this. Some fire departments and public safety agencies, including CAL FIRE and Cal OES, are using them already.
One interesting thing is they are also selling them to businesses to enable business continuity during power outages and their site discusses their use of their device in the current blackouts.
https://thepodrunner.com
https://thepodrunner.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Star-Run...
One interesting thing is they are also selling them to businesses to enable business continuity during power outages and their site discusses their use of their device in the current blackouts.
https://thepodrunner.com
https://thepodrunner.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Star-Run...
Their website is down.
That’s if you just ignore licensing requirements for these very crowded frequencies.
I'm pretty sure firefighters could get such a license in the event of emergency -- or just operate without such a license.
[Edit: or you ask some technician of your local operator to bring the system up :)]
[Edit: or you ask some technician of your local operator to bring the system up :)]
That same operator that brought down their own equipment for some apparently nefarious reason?
They could borrow stingrays from the cops. And they would be in operation when the regular towers are down.
Do modern phones even support 2g anymore?
And just months ago California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection decided:
"However, with constantly changing technological advances, there is no longer the same benefit to State as previously provided. Therefore, the Department no longer financially supports HAM operators [sic] radios or tenancy. If you desire to enter into a formal agreement to operate and maintain said equipment, you must complete and submit attached collocation application along with fee as outlined on page one of application. There is cost associated with getting an agreement in place.”
So basically pay up or move out.
How exactly is the word supposed to get out in dangerous dry windy conditions if the power is out, the cells are out, and the hams move out?
So basically pay up or move out.
How exactly is the word supposed to get out in dangerous dry windy conditions if the power is out, the cells are out, and the hams move out?
> How exactly is the word supposed to get out in dangerous dry windy conditions if the power is out, the cells are out, and the hams move out?
There have been attempts to create apps that allow a combination of store and forward messaging and ad hoc network creation so that messages could be literally carried from where there is no mobile network coverage to places where there is or to be relayed through other devices.
Now I put on my tinfoil hat: the problem is that in densely populated areas this would eat into the revenue that the network operator gets from SMS so no operators have promoted the idea and of course it would be easy to make it somewhat resistant to eavesdropping so no state will promote it either.
Actually I don't know if those things are true but it seems like a plausible reason for the lack of peer to peer capabilities in modern smartphones.
See https://www.computerworld.com/article/2510683/peer-to-peer--...
There have been attempts to create apps that allow a combination of store and forward messaging and ad hoc network creation so that messages could be literally carried from where there is no mobile network coverage to places where there is or to be relayed through other devices.
Now I put on my tinfoil hat: the problem is that in densely populated areas this would eat into the revenue that the network operator gets from SMS so no operators have promoted the idea and of course it would be easy to make it somewhat resistant to eavesdropping so no state will promote it either.
Actually I don't know if those things are true but it seems like a plausible reason for the lack of peer to peer capabilities in modern smartphones.
See https://www.computerworld.com/article/2510683/peer-to-peer--...
Wifi direct is becoming popular and makes this kind of thing possible. I've also seen hardware products for similar like the gotenna. You could have a party of people across a relatively large area (say a ski resort, trail network, or neighborhood) and have decent async connectivity for SMS like use between them.
Software products like Lifenet, Firechat, Bridgefy, and similar generally use wifi-direct or bluetooth to communicate and do support store and forward.
On the amateur radio side js8call does allow forwarding through 3rd parties and store and forward.
Granted the financial model for these kind of things is tricky, but they do seem to be getting more popular. But sure I don't expect any cell provider to help, and was pleasantly pleased when p2p/direct connections was added to android.
I was pretty interested in gotenna and wanted to add a DHT and internet gateway so that messages would be delivered globally if anyone in your mesh had an internet connection. They rejected my idea 8-(.
Software products like Lifenet, Firechat, Bridgefy, and similar generally use wifi-direct or bluetooth to communicate and do support store and forward.
On the amateur radio side js8call does allow forwarding through 3rd parties and store and forward.
Granted the financial model for these kind of things is tricky, but they do seem to be getting more popular. But sure I don't expect any cell provider to help, and was pleasantly pleased when p2p/direct connections was added to android.
I was pretty interested in gotenna and wanted to add a DHT and internet gateway so that messages would be delivered globally if anyone in your mesh had an internet connection. They rejected my idea 8-(.
> How exactly is the word supposed to get out in dangerous dry windy conditions if the power is out, the cells are out, and the hams move out?
Smoke signals
Smoke signals
"I see smoke in the east".
"What does it mean?"
"There's a fire there."
"Oh, you can read smoke signals?"
"No."
"What does it mean?"
"There's a fire there."
"Oh, you can read smoke signals?"
"No."
Someone out there just really wants California to burn.
To be fair, Cal fire and emergency agencies are well-equipped with two-way radios and repeaters. Ham radio operators don't actually do any direct activities with fire management, they might - a rare might - be in the right place at the right time to report a new fire, a structure or people under threat, but typically they don't. They do enhance the public's awareness of a fire's presence but I don't have knowledge of what else hams actually do for a fire.
To be fair, Cal fire and emergency agencies are well-equipped with two-way radios and repeaters. Ham radio operators don't actually do any direct activities with fire management, they might - a rare might - be in the right place at the right time to report a new fire, a structure or people under threat, but typically they don't. They do enhance the public's awareness of a fire's presence but I don't have knowledge of what else hams actually do for a fire.
Edit: here's a first-hand experience from a ham affected by the fires: https://old.reddit.com/r/amateurradio/comments/dpevai/experi...
Here's the report direct from the FCC.
https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-360482A1.pdf
https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-360482A1.pdf
> Of the 874 outages, 702 were blamed on loss of power to the cell tower site.
> A few, about 60, were down due to wind or fire damage to the sites themselves.