Ask HN: Finally have loose change and spare time, but no sense of purpose. Help.
31 comments
Joel Spolsky has a great piece on doing a self-funded sabbatical:
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000076.html
If you can swing it financially, that's probably a really good place to start. Get out of California for a while. You're quite correct in that it's different from the rest of the US, in some ways better and in some ways worse. You're (I'm assuming) legally entitled to work anywhere in the US, so consider taking advantage of that.
Finally, I think the whole "finding something you're passionate about" thing is largely bullshit. This article:
http://calnewport.com/blog/2009/11/24/are-passions-serendipi...
lays it out much more eloquently than I could. If you can get really good at one or two things that you don't hate you'll start to see interesting work in those fields come your way.
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000076.html
If you can swing it financially, that's probably a really good place to start. Get out of California for a while. You're quite correct in that it's different from the rest of the US, in some ways better and in some ways worse. You're (I'm assuming) legally entitled to work anywhere in the US, so consider taking advantage of that.
Finally, I think the whole "finding something you're passionate about" thing is largely bullshit. This article:
http://calnewport.com/blog/2009/11/24/are-passions-serendipi...
lays it out much more eloquently than I could. If you can get really good at one or two things that you don't hate you'll start to see interesting work in those fields come your way.
> I'm not in shape to start a company because I don't have any sort of overarching passion that will keep me motivated no matter what, nor do I have any monetizable hobbies or interests. I also have serious doubts about my programming skill, let alone ability to run a business. Everything I've been interested in making already exists in a form better than I can ever do myself. (That ought to be a wonderful thing in itself, but my selfish ego demands that I personally make a difference somewhere.)
When I was near your age a dear friend of mine, Regina Riley, was kind enough to share an important bit of wisdom; When you say, "I'm Bored," you are actually saying, "I'm Boring."
For many people, it can be a very harsh revelation.
The additional difficult revelation is; fascinating people are fascinated, and fascination is a choice.
An alternate, but equally accurate, way to phrase it is; interesting people are interested, and interest is a choice.
You must choose to be interested. You must choose to be fascinated. It might be a thing, or a field, or a topic, or even another person. Your choice is an investment, and every investment has a price. It may or may not be the very best investment you could make, but it is guaranteed to pay off in some way.
In taking the time to type this, I chose to have an interest in you as a fellow human being, and I made an investment at a higher price than most must pay to post an opinion on a forum. I could flatter myself with the effort I've put forth to type this. I could flatter myself with believing I spotted the root of your problem. I could flatter myself with making a difference in your life by sharing something that was shared with me.
I don't need self-important flattery, and I honestly have no clue if this will be helpful to you in any way. It may have been a poor choice of investments.
None the less, I'm happily content with just knowing I tried my best to be interested and invested in helping another human being. I decided to be interesting. Can you say the same?
Let it be known that your investment has paid off in, at minimum, a grateful reader and an upvote.
The really scary thing is that I've noticed I'm having an easier time acknowledging that I'm boring than taking action to change that. I'm still trying to fight the idea that I might be fundamentally lazy.
But thank you for your support! It will be a difficult journey for me as well.
The really scary thing is that I've noticed I'm having an easier time acknowledging that I'm boring than taking action to change that. I'm still trying to fight the idea that I might be fundamentally lazy.
But thank you for your support! It will be a difficult journey for me as well.
There are some great comments here.
I disagree with leaping into the abyss because it's likely to be overwhelming and counterproductive in this context.
Change one aspect of your life at a time and see what happens. Move houses, change jobs, change social circles. Sit back and observe. It ties in with trying something different but also makes it more manageable instead of attempting to do everything at once. I think people have different tolerances for the amount of change they can adapt to.
I second the comment on the corporate machine making you unproductive and making you feel lazy. Corporations are large machines with huge overhead because the rules are designed for average employees. On the whole, stuff gets done, but at the individual level it minimizes upside and downside. Unless you have a talent or discipline for office politics, it isn't an attractive option. I would guess that the majority of HN readers would not enjoy that environment.
The quarter-life crisis and the early 21st century syndrome is prevalent amongst 20-30 yr olds. Societies are undergoing major change and it is fascinating to see how we will respond to the choices presented to us. Now that companies can be built with 2-3 people, it doesn't just allow for ycombinator to succeed, it forces young programmers to assess whether a forty year career path is the obvious choice. Personally, I think the life and career goals of earlier generations is not applicable any more but are still being passed down and unintentionally causing cognitive dissonance.
I disagree with leaping into the abyss because it's likely to be overwhelming and counterproductive in this context.
Change one aspect of your life at a time and see what happens. Move houses, change jobs, change social circles. Sit back and observe. It ties in with trying something different but also makes it more manageable instead of attempting to do everything at once. I think people have different tolerances for the amount of change they can adapt to.
I second the comment on the corporate machine making you unproductive and making you feel lazy. Corporations are large machines with huge overhead because the rules are designed for average employees. On the whole, stuff gets done, but at the individual level it minimizes upside and downside. Unless you have a talent or discipline for office politics, it isn't an attractive option. I would guess that the majority of HN readers would not enjoy that environment.
The quarter-life crisis and the early 21st century syndrome is prevalent amongst 20-30 yr olds. Societies are undergoing major change and it is fascinating to see how we will respond to the choices presented to us. Now that companies can be built with 2-3 people, it doesn't just allow for ycombinator to succeed, it forces young programmers to assess whether a forty year career path is the obvious choice. Personally, I think the life and career goals of earlier generations is not applicable any more but are still being passed down and unintentionally causing cognitive dissonance.
You're groaning in the wrong headspace I would say.
You're looking at your life and groaning about the lack of passion and interest in the things around you.
Everything you find is 'good enough'. Damnit man! Get dissatisfied!
You've got a healthy dose of skepticism, which is highly underrated, now you need to develop your ability to find issues, flaws and opportunities in what is around you. Products, services, the way things are done. They may be done better than you could do them yourself, but are they done the best they ever will be? How would you improve them, then learn how to build it yourself and that makes a better product.
One of the interesting things I've found about passion is that in some ways, it can often be found lurking within you and just needs to be discovered and awakened.
I think one thing shared by all passionate people is that they rarely seem passionate about something that involves only them. It is in the service of others that most people find their passion. As an example, look at the Charlie Rose interview with Andrew Mason of Groupon http://techcrunch.com/2010/12/10/groupon-masin-charlie-rose/ Mason talks about what Groupon does for businesses, what it does for people. It isn't about what it does for him. FourSquare is somewhat useless, but Crowley talks about how people are going to the gym more often and getting healthier because they use it. It is often these purposes which lurk beneath the surface where the passion can come from.
You're looking at your life and groaning about the lack of passion and interest in the things around you.
Everything you find is 'good enough'. Damnit man! Get dissatisfied!
You've got a healthy dose of skepticism, which is highly underrated, now you need to develop your ability to find issues, flaws and opportunities in what is around you. Products, services, the way things are done. They may be done better than you could do them yourself, but are they done the best they ever will be? How would you improve them, then learn how to build it yourself and that makes a better product.
One of the interesting things I've found about passion is that in some ways, it can often be found lurking within you and just needs to be discovered and awakened.
I think one thing shared by all passionate people is that they rarely seem passionate about something that involves only them. It is in the service of others that most people find their passion. As an example, look at the Charlie Rose interview with Andrew Mason of Groupon http://techcrunch.com/2010/12/10/groupon-masin-charlie-rose/ Mason talks about what Groupon does for businesses, what it does for people. It isn't about what it does for him. FourSquare is somewhat useless, but Crowley talks about how people are going to the gym more often and getting healthier because they use it. It is often these purposes which lurk beneath the surface where the passion can come from.
If you haven't done so already, I would develop some spheres of influence around the things that you already enjoy. The ability to bounce ideas and receive healthy criticisms from trusted friends greatly increases your chances of discovering something you are passionate about. You should have one "CPU cycle" dedicated to exploring the options of this world, with the flexibility to become deeper involved into them if desired.
Asian & Middle Eastern immigrants coming to America have not had "it" as good as you have. They come here and are amazed and bewildered by the concept of developing a stable and comfortable lifestyle on any area they choose to focus in on. Possibilities are almost endless. There is some psychology available that reinforces since you have not had anything different than the status quo, you may have lost some of this bewilderment by fulfilling the typical young adult lifestyle.
I reinitiated some of this by traveling India and China for a couple months, at a time in my "career" as a web developer, where I felt commoditized beyond recognition. The trek identified some faults in how I had been wasting my time, wasting my talents and wasting the capabilities possible available. The experiences, the sights were beyond anything I could have imagined on any other ordinary "vacation".
Asian & Middle Eastern immigrants coming to America have not had "it" as good as you have. They come here and are amazed and bewildered by the concept of developing a stable and comfortable lifestyle on any area they choose to focus in on. Possibilities are almost endless. There is some psychology available that reinforces since you have not had anything different than the status quo, you may have lost some of this bewilderment by fulfilling the typical young adult lifestyle.
I reinitiated some of this by traveling India and China for a couple months, at a time in my "career" as a web developer, where I felt commoditized beyond recognition. The trek identified some faults in how I had been wasting my time, wasting my talents and wasting the capabilities possible available. The experiences, the sights were beyond anything I could have imagined on any other ordinary "vacation".
You needn't make any irrevocable decisions immediately, obviously. Three things that could help that come to mind are to try new things, a short vacation, and lots of time outdoors. Like this:
Take three weeks off over the holidays and spend it hiking in New Zealand and swimming in the ocean. Eat new food, meet new people, but stay outdoors as much as possible.
Although you say you don't thing you are suffering from depression or burnout, it is possible you are in a mild sort of way. Exercise, sun, and healthy food could all help if that were the case, making it easier to make good decisions upon your return.
Take three weeks off over the holidays and spend it hiking in New Zealand and swimming in the ocean. Eat new food, meet new people, but stay outdoors as much as possible.
Although you say you don't thing you are suffering from depression or burnout, it is possible you are in a mild sort of way. Exercise, sun, and healthy food could all help if that were the case, making it easier to make good decisions upon your return.
Passion isn't the only motivator. There's a reason that you turn up at work every day and keep working. Perhaps you just need to figure out what motivates you and use that to move forward. This post itself seems to say you have things you want to be doing or you wouldn't have made it. No need to rush things. If you're content with your job and not unhappy, no need to change anything before you know what to change.
I have a concrete suggestion along the lines of some of the suggestions here.
I assume you live in at least a moderately big city (e.g. maybe SF Bay Area). Pick up one of those alternative weekly newspapers, or find something equivalent on the web, or somehow find some long list of activities, clubs, and events that represent a decent cross-section of what people do.
Now number all of them -- make sure you get at least a hundred or so -- then generate five random numbers, and choose at least two of the five activities you randomly picked.
I assume you live in at least a moderately big city (e.g. maybe SF Bay Area). Pick up one of those alternative weekly newspapers, or find something equivalent on the web, or somehow find some long list of activities, clubs, and events that represent a decent cross-section of what people do.
Now number all of them -- make sure you get at least a hundred or so -- then generate five random numbers, and choose at least two of the five activities you randomly picked.
If you want to boost your programming chops while doing something you care about, why don't you join an early-stage startup for equity? They need people who are willing to work for lower pay, and you will learn A TON about something you enjoy. And usually super-early stage startups give you flexibility of no official HR to dictate when you have to be there and when you have to take a vacation. Sounds like a pretty simple solution to me.
It's the early days of the Internet. We've invented sail and gunpowder, and we're just coming to the New World. If you're on Hacker News, you're a navigator - a captain - a fierce programmer. Marketers and social networks, data gatherers and marketers - your foes are numerous and powerful. Take your desire to do something wonderful, find a crew you want to sail with, and get started.
You'll be happier for having done it.
You'll be happier for having done it.
Great! Now quit your job and take some time to just explore. I'm not talking about places; I mean thoughts, ideas, and projects.
Derek Sivers on "finding your passion": http://sivers.org/passion
By the way, have you already put in your 10 years of coding on projects that push at and stretch your programming ability? If not, you really have no justification to say you're not capable of being a good programmer, and just sounds to me like one of those things people say when they're having a down day.
Peter Norvig's "Teach Yourself Programming in 10 Years": http://norvig.com/21-days.html
Derek Sivers on "finding your passion": http://sivers.org/passion
By the way, have you already put in your 10 years of coding on projects that push at and stretch your programming ability? If not, you really have no justification to say you're not capable of being a good programmer, and just sounds to me like one of those things people say when they're having a down day.
Peter Norvig's "Teach Yourself Programming in 10 Years": http://norvig.com/21-days.html
Great! Now quit your job and take some time to just explore. I'm not talking about places; I mean thoughts, ideas, and projects.
Sure, sounds great, but is quitting really necessary for that? I did say that I do have spare time now, and although I'm not addicted to a paycheck, I don't think I can just leap into the abyss either.
Unfortunately, right now my "ground state" (as so eloquently described here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1536432) seems to be mindless worrying, and I think quitting my job will simply enable me to do that full-time.
By the way, have you already put in your 10 years of coding on projects that push at and stretch your programming ability? If not, you really have no justification in saying you're not capable of being a good programmer. http://norvig.com/21-days.html
I don't doubt that I'm capable, I just don't think I'm there yet. I've been programming for more than 10 years, but not all of it counts as deliberate practice.
Sure, sounds great, but is quitting really necessary for that? I did say that I do have spare time now, and although I'm not addicted to a paycheck, I don't think I can just leap into the abyss either.
Unfortunately, right now my "ground state" (as so eloquently described here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1536432) seems to be mindless worrying, and I think quitting my job will simply enable me to do that full-time.
By the way, have you already put in your 10 years of coding on projects that push at and stretch your programming ability? If not, you really have no justification in saying you're not capable of being a good programmer. http://norvig.com/21-days.html
I don't doubt that I'm capable, I just don't think I'm there yet. I've been programming for more than 10 years, but not all of it counts as deliberate practice.
but is quitting really necessary for that?
Short answer: Yes.
Why are you so attached to having a full-time job? Is the point of life to just spend all of it working and accumulating cash? You're in a great position to grant yourself a sabbattical/mini-retirement/etc. I also have no idea what abyss you're worried about falling into; it sounds like you're already in one. Jobs are a commodity, lifetimes aren't.
Or you could look at it as a new job: you're going to be employed by yourself with the objective of reinventing yourself and learning to live. Your task is to spend 40 hours/week on moving toward self-actualization: learning to be independent, having a girlfriend, and finding your passions. (Edit: And spend time volunteering and making a difference in others' lives as people have suggested in this thread.)
Where in California are you? I know a couple of "hacker houses" in Berkeley and SF that are filled with interesting and passionate people. You could spend a couple months in one and immerse yourself in a fun, interesting, engaging environment.
Relevant: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1112823,00....
You should also check out the book "4 Hour Work Week". I don't subscribe to the literal idea of a 4 hour work week, but the life-optimization philosophy explained in it is inspirational and makes a lot of sense.
Short answer: Yes.
Why are you so attached to having a full-time job? Is the point of life to just spend all of it working and accumulating cash? You're in a great position to grant yourself a sabbattical/mini-retirement/etc. I also have no idea what abyss you're worried about falling into; it sounds like you're already in one. Jobs are a commodity, lifetimes aren't.
Or you could look at it as a new job: you're going to be employed by yourself with the objective of reinventing yourself and learning to live. Your task is to spend 40 hours/week on moving toward self-actualization: learning to be independent, having a girlfriend, and finding your passions. (Edit: And spend time volunteering and making a difference in others' lives as people have suggested in this thread.)
Where in California are you? I know a couple of "hacker houses" in Berkeley and SF that are filled with interesting and passionate people. You could spend a couple months in one and immerse yourself in a fun, interesting, engaging environment.
Relevant: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1112823,00....
You should also check out the book "4 Hour Work Week". I don't subscribe to the literal idea of a 4 hour work week, but the life-optimization philosophy explained in it is inspirational and makes a lot of sense.
Seems like maybe you should look at joining a startup as you don't want to (or have the motivation) to run your own and want to stay away from big companies.
You also have prime location being in California, even if you think you are lacking in the programming abilities it wouldn't hurt to try and get a job doing that.
You also have prime location being in California, even if you think you are lacking in the programming abilities it wouldn't hurt to try and get a job doing that.
Join a start-up and share in the founder's passion, you will have the good parts of the experience without the money stress.
Maybe I read too much Hacker News, but frankly I find a lot of startups uninspiring. Social this, web-based that, yadda yadda.
Again, I might just need an attitude change, or I'm wearing the wrong glasses.
Again, I might just need an attitude change, or I'm wearing the wrong glasses.
Doing is easy. Finding out what you want to do is not - at least not for me.
It also seems you are self-deprecating. You must have some value - you were not paid for doing nothing!
But maybe what was found valuable in you by corporate america differs from what you define as a value.
Have you tried reading philosophy? It helped me. If philosophy is not your thing you can try more accessible literature. My biased suggestion would be Atlas Shrugged.
I would also suggest trying to define your life values (what's important for you?) and following that, defining your life goals (where do you want to make a chance?) - then it's "just" a matter of implementation.
It also seems you are self-deprecating. You must have some value - you were not paid for doing nothing!
But maybe what was found valuable in you by corporate america differs from what you define as a value.
Have you tried reading philosophy? It helped me. If philosophy is not your thing you can try more accessible literature. My biased suggestion would be Atlas Shrugged.
I would also suggest trying to define your life values (what's important for you?) and following that, defining your life goals (where do you want to make a chance?) - then it's "just" a matter of implementation.
Thanks. I just finished the Meditations of Marcus Aurelius not too long ago, and it was sobering but refreshing.
I'd rather suggest Nietszche or Atlas Shrugged because they are better remedies against actual nihilism IMHO. But whatever you read, if you find some value in it - keep going !
Try lesswrong and transhumanist websites if that's your thing. Or anything else - it's your tastes that matters.
As many others pointed in the thread, anomie is best fought if you create your own meaning. To me, this meant defining my own values first.
Try lesswrong and transhumanist websites if that's your thing. Or anything else - it's your tastes that matters.
As many others pointed in the thread, anomie is best fought if you create your own meaning. To me, this meant defining my own values first.
No, you're exactly right.
Why don't you split the difference? I'm working on a new startup and it's got all the excitement of a software startup, but it's in a niche market that's very ripe and grateful, and there's the opportunity to travel to interesting places to meet with customers (I'm going to Singapore next month), but we're headquartered in Park City, UT, and the quality of life is very high here, assuming you like skiing and mountain biking and outdoorsy stuff.
Maybe I could be working on a startup that's more high profile and more likely to make me famous on HN and Techcrunch, but I prefer the more relaxed lifestyle.
You don't have to make the choice between living for your work or just being a mindless corporate drone. Work on something exciting and dynamic, and also have a life. It's possible.
Why don't you come work here? We need engineers.
Maybe I could be working on a startup that's more high profile and more likely to make me famous on HN and Techcrunch, but I prefer the more relaxed lifestyle.
You don't have to make the choice between living for your work or just being a mindless corporate drone. Work on something exciting and dynamic, and also have a life. It's possible.
Why don't you come work here? We need engineers.
Wow, what an opportunity. The world is yours - may I recommend that you travel? Travel cheap, see the world. Find your passion. Don't worry about what you are going to do in the future, you have so much time to build a life/lives.
Concrete examples? Volunteer, either near home or internationally (though don't get stuck in a 'paid' volunteer system, just pay for your own travel but don't get charged to work anywhere as a volunteer)
Working Holiday visa You can live and travel for a year of more, no visa worries. For example, go to Australia, hang out and get some exercise, go surfing, pick apples, then go see Indonesia, Thailand, Laos.. then when you get back to the States you'll be even more unbelievably spoiled, but you'll have an idea of what you want to do with your opportunity.
I'm sure others here could give more examples. When I was 24 I had already packed up and was just traveling, freelancing digitally as I needed, until something came along that was interesting enough to stay put for.
Concrete examples? Volunteer, either near home or internationally (though don't get stuck in a 'paid' volunteer system, just pay for your own travel but don't get charged to work anywhere as a volunteer)
Working Holiday visa You can live and travel for a year of more, no visa worries. For example, go to Australia, hang out and get some exercise, go surfing, pick apples, then go see Indonesia, Thailand, Laos.. then when you get back to the States you'll be even more unbelievably spoiled, but you'll have an idea of what you want to do with your opportunity.
I'm sure others here could give more examples. When I was 24 I had already packed up and was just traveling, freelancing digitally as I needed, until something came along that was interesting enough to stay put for.
I've thought long and hard about this. I really do want to do this, but I don't know if I can pull it off.
I'm afraid that I'll wind up like Antoine Roquentin from Sartre's Nausea -- a long world tour followed by disappointment and existential crisis.
I'm afraid that I'll wind up like Antoine Roquentin from Sartre's Nausea -- a long world tour followed by disappointment and existential crisis.
I love the reference, and don't forget Candide... something I tell my friends who are a little hesitant to start off: remember that whatever you are leaving behind you can come back to, and regardless of what happens you'll have stories to come back with.
Thanks for the Candide recommendation. I've had it on my reading list for a while but I'm picking it up on my next library trip.
If you try it, you might succeed.
If you don't try it, you definitely won't succeed.
If you don't try it, you definitely won't succeed.
Go to http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/ pick a record to go for. rinse and repeat. It'll be good for a laugh, some needed space from corporate America and we can get to follow you along.
Classic quarter-life crisis. It will pass.
However; you're 24 and you've never had a girlfriend? And you feel like there's something missing in your life? I don't think joining a startup or learning ten new programming languages is the solution to your problems...
However; you're 24 and you've never had a girlfriend? And you feel like there's something missing in your life? I don't think joining a startup or learning ten new programming languages is the solution to your problems...
Please. I know I have a fair share of problems, but you seem awfully quick to pass judgment as to this being one of them. Care to elaborate?
EDIT: Let me just say that I'm in no shape to get into a relationship. I will just be dumping my problems on her and making her miserable instead.
EDIT: Let me just say that I'm in no shape to get into a relationship. I will just be dumping my problems on her and making her miserable instead.
I don't think he's judging your character or personality -- I think he's extrapolating from "I've never had a girlfriend" to "I haven't experienced much of life beyond work yet". If you've got enough money for ten years (or longer, as you say), why not take just a bit of it and travel for a while, or volunteer for a charity or something? You might just find something that does restore your sense of purpose.
FWIW, I never had a steady girlfriend till I was 23 (married to her and have a kid now, 6 years on) and it didn't bother me. Definitely don't feel pushed by society or embarrassment into prematurely settling down (or ever settling down at all, I know several people over 40 who have been permanently single and have rich lives).
Definitely agree here. A girlfriend is only one of many people with whom you can share a close relationship. Close non-intimate relationships with anyone can be just as rewarding.
I've done a lot of boneheaded things in my youth, and postponing romantic relationships to a later time probably would have resulted in me making better decisions when faced with the same situation. I'd like to think so, at least.
I've done a lot of boneheaded things in my youth, and postponing romantic relationships to a later time probably would have resulted in me making better decisions when faced with the same situation. I'd like to think so, at least.
Spend time helping others for a while.
This is actually a very selfish thing to do, no matter how counter-intuitive that sounds.
Studies on human happiness have shown repeatedly that we are actually made happier by giving to others than by receiving things.
It doesn't really matter what you choose. Build houses with Habitat for Humanity, Try Volunteers for Peace and dig wells and build homes in the third world. http://www.vfp.org/ Try volunteering to help children with Unicef.
You'll find that physical work without the burden of worrying about things like "what's it all about" or "what's my passion" will make you happier, give you great experiences and memories, and introduce you to things about the world that could positively affect you for the rest of your life.
Forget startups, you're in a position to do what few people have the opportunity to do.
This is actually a very selfish thing to do, no matter how counter-intuitive that sounds.
Studies on human happiness have shown repeatedly that we are actually made happier by giving to others than by receiving things.
It doesn't really matter what you choose. Build houses with Habitat for Humanity, Try Volunteers for Peace and dig wells and build homes in the third world. http://www.vfp.org/ Try volunteering to help children with Unicef.
You'll find that physical work without the burden of worrying about things like "what's it all about" or "what's my passion" will make you happier, give you great experiences and memories, and introduce you to things about the world that could positively affect you for the rest of your life.
Forget startups, you're in a position to do what few people have the opportunity to do.
Interesting take.
I have volunteered before, at community events and the food bank. It felt uncomfortable because I did indeed feel selfish doing those things.
It's reassuring to know that this is completely normal.
I have volunteered before, at community events and the food bank. It felt uncomfortable because I did indeed feel selfish doing those things.
It's reassuring to know that this is completely normal.
I hope you'll post a followup on HN once you make a decision, this is actually a very interesting post. Good luck!
When you say you've never had a "house", does this mean you still live with your parents?
I think you mostly have existed and not actually lived. You should probably start by just gaining some independence and some outside extracurricular activities.
You should have a house/apartment, a car, a girlfriend, some hobbies. Lack of these things and the ability to live for 10 years on any amount you could have reasonably amassed as a 24 year old corporate programmer is most likely not a topic to brag on. This should be an indication that you need to expand your horizons.
I think you mostly have existed and not actually lived. You should probably start by just gaining some independence and some outside extracurricular activities.
You should have a house/apartment, a car, a girlfriend, some hobbies. Lack of these things and the ability to live for 10 years on any amount you could have reasonably amassed as a 24 year old corporate programmer is most likely not a topic to brag on. This should be an indication that you need to expand your horizons.
I think you have described me well.
I'm not bragging. You should be able to tell from what I've written that I'm not proud of what I've done in life so far.
Is it wrong for me to prioritize getting some real stuff done over having a car, house, or girlfriend? It's not like a gas-guzzling vehicle will make me any happier, and I find gardening distinctly unenjoyable. No comment yet on this relationship stuff.
I'm not bragging. You should be able to tell from what I've written that I'm not proud of what I've done in life so far.
Is it wrong for me to prioritize getting some real stuff done over having a car, house, or girlfriend? It's not like a gas-guzzling vehicle will make me any happier, and I find gardening distinctly unenjoyable. No comment yet on this relationship stuff.
I thought it was clear that you were not bragging, simply describing as best you could the problem-space (and the resources currently available).
Regarding the prioritization of cars, houses, and relationships....
I would say that owning a car is just what it appears. If it doesn't seem appealing, don't do it. Owning real estate, pretty similar. Moving out, maybe a little more subtle (i.e. the costs/benefits are less obvious to someone who hasn't done it yet), but not enormously more subtle.
But I would argue that girlfriend/relationship is not like these things. (Obviously I speak here for my own experience, and I claim that it's somewhat generalizable.) Relationships are rewarding in weird and surprising ways, and difficult in weird and confusing ways. Also, they require practice to maximize your benefits, so if you figure you're going to want this at some point, getting some low-pressure practice in might be prudent.
Regarding the prioritization of cars, houses, and relationships....
I would say that owning a car is just what it appears. If it doesn't seem appealing, don't do it. Owning real estate, pretty similar. Moving out, maybe a little more subtle (i.e. the costs/benefits are less obvious to someone who hasn't done it yet), but not enormously more subtle.
But I would argue that girlfriend/relationship is not like these things. (Obviously I speak here for my own experience, and I claim that it's somewhat generalizable.) Relationships are rewarding in weird and surprising ways, and difficult in weird and confusing ways. Also, they require practice to maximize your benefits, so if you figure you're going to want this at some point, getting some low-pressure practice in might be prudent.
What is "real stuff"?
Excellent question.
Something that makes a difference in the lives of real people. In all honesty I don't know any more than that, but I have a hard time believing that it's any of those things you mentioned.
Something that makes a difference in the lives of real people. In all honesty I don't know any more than that, but I have a hard time believing that it's any of those things you mentioned.
The answers you seek lie not within your browser...
The best way to see what makes a difference in the lives of people is to get out and meet them.
A good start would be just gaining some independence for yourself. The world suddenly looks very different when you remove most of the safety nets and have to sink or swim wholly of your own resources.
I personally don't think you should be considering world-changing events right now. You should be looking towards simple things and expanding your own horizons. You can split the difference by volunteering at some local organizations and maybe joining some groups/clubs that seem at least mildly intriguing.
BTW, in my prior post I didn't mean to imply that I thought you were bragging.
The best way to see what makes a difference in the lives of people is to get out and meet them.
A good start would be just gaining some independence for yourself. The world suddenly looks very different when you remove most of the safety nets and have to sink or swim wholly of your own resources.
I personally don't think you should be considering world-changing events right now. You should be looking towards simple things and expanding your own horizons. You can split the difference by volunteering at some local organizations and maybe joining some groups/clubs that seem at least mildly intriguing.
BTW, in my prior post I didn't mean to imply that I thought you were bragging.
I think that a relationship makes a difference in the lives of real people, at least for the two of you and those close to you. I would check it out. There is a reason that almost every human society ever has been focused on the idea of a relationship. Study the existing ancient cultures and see what they value most.
I disagree with your first assertion; a Hayabusa could make you very happy. ;-)
Go back to School.
Get a Master's degree in Computer Science if you are doubting your programming skills. Take or Audit a bunch of weird classes (in and out of the CS branch) and see if anything there interests you. Drink up (now that you can afford quality beer) and get laid.
Get a Master's degree in Computer Science if you are doubting your programming skills. Take or Audit a bunch of weird classes (in and out of the CS branch) and see if anything there interests you. Drink up (now that you can afford quality beer) and get laid.
Argh. Going to get a Master's is NOT a solution to doubting your programming skills! Professors cannot teach you how to write code, because they don't know themselves.
(Going to school may or may not be a great move... but not for this reason!)
(Going to school may or may not be a great move... but not for this reason!)
I did get a Master's. I don't think I did it properly though, since I went there because it felt like the right thing to do, not because I had some great interest to explore there.
I was in the same situation (besides being a little younger thanks to the outrageous salaries of the late-90s) and what I did was to join a non-profit that helps people. The pay sucks and it won't get you completely away from politics but at least you'll be helping people while not spending your money (and politics aren't so bad when you know you're being paid below your worth because you have a lot more leverage)
Non-Profits notoriously have lousy technology and unfortunately the low pay can draw even worse IT people. So someone who has the skills to make it in the private sector can make a big difference.
At this point in my life I can point to literally thousands of children who are at least a tiny bit better off because I was here and that's worth a lot to me. If you think it would be for you too than it's an option I'd check out.
Non-Profits notoriously have lousy technology and unfortunately the low pay can draw even worse IT people. So someone who has the skills to make it in the private sector can make a big difference.
At this point in my life I can point to literally thousands of children who are at least a tiny bit better off because I was here and that's worth a lot to me. If you think it would be for you too than it's an option I'd check out.
You haven't won jack so stop feeling sorry for yourself. You're now in a position through either drive or coincidence (doesn't matter) that you can make a real impact on other people's lives, and now you have to meet that obligation. Find problems and try and solve them - you can start a company, volunteer, whatever - but you have to interact with people to understand what they need. Plus it's better to to hang out with them in your 20's because by the time they hit 30 they'll mostly be self-serving douche-bags (myself included).
Here's what you need to do:
1. Find someone who needs help.
2. Help them.
That's it. It's not about you and your skills and your intelligence and your blessings and your depression and your inner psychology etc. etc. etc. It's about others.
They may need help in an area you're already familiar with, but maybe not. Either way, you'll learn something new, they'll get where they need to be, and your situation will profoundly morph into something else.
The sooner you start helping someone else, the sooner you will wonder how you could have ever posted this. A hundred ideas will come your way when you least expect them, along with the energy to do something about them. You will find that there's lots to be done and you're the perfect person to do them. You'll have a different problem then. You'll need help getting all of it done. So you'll be making a very different post to hn. I'm looking forward to that one.
1. Find someone who needs help.
2. Help them.
That's it. It's not about you and your skills and your intelligence and your blessings and your depression and your inner psychology etc. etc. etc. It's about others.
They may need help in an area you're already familiar with, but maybe not. Either way, you'll learn something new, they'll get where they need to be, and your situation will profoundly morph into something else.
The sooner you start helping someone else, the sooner you will wonder how you could have ever posted this. A hundred ideas will come your way when you least expect them, along with the energy to do something about them. You will find that there's lots to be done and you're the perfect person to do them. You'll have a different problem then. You'll need help getting all of it done. So you'll be making a very different post to hn. I'm looking forward to that one.
Some more thoughts... Travelling:
Go somewhere you don't speak the language, and where they won't be good at English. Don't do the tourist locations. Find out how other people live their daily lives and reflect upon it.
Perhaps you will want to help people less fortunate than yourself. Perhaps you'll want to help people like yourself because you discover that you are actually less fortunate in some other sense.
At the very worse, don't waste your life on video games and internet, unless you're going to create a video game that might need to be online.
I had an even longer-winded reply, but it basically boils down to the 2 steps from edw519.
Perhaps you will want to help people less fortunate than yourself. Perhaps you'll want to help people like yourself because you discover that you are actually less fortunate in some other sense.
At the very worse, don't waste your life on video games and internet, unless you're going to create a video game that might need to be online.
I had an even longer-winded reply, but it basically boils down to the 2 steps from edw519.
You've struck a nerve here. I don't have a response yet... but thank you.
Everything I've been interested in making already exists in a form better than I can ever do myself. (That ought to be a wonderful thing in itself, but my selfish ego demands that I personally make a difference somewhere.)
"Better" is subjective and based on multiple variables. IMHO Ferrari makes better cars than Ford but Ford sells plenty of cars. I think Reddit is better than Digg, but plenty of people disagree.
Be careful not to fall into a trap of seeing things as black and white. There's a lot of fun and money in the grays ;-)
"Better" is subjective and based on multiple variables. IMHO Ferrari makes better cars than Ford but Ford sells plenty of cars. I think Reddit is better than Digg, but plenty of people disagree.
Be careful not to fall into a trap of seeing things as black and white. There's a lot of fun and money in the grays ;-)
Figure out what sort of looks and cultural qualities you like in a wife/girlfriend. Travel to that country and live there for a couple months staying in hostels or couch surfing. Meet girls. Extend the 2 months as long as needed, switching countries if there are issues. Marry foreign girl. Stay in her country where you now have a spouse visa. Start new life.
The reason for this advice is because you said "I'm sick of corporate America and all its bureaucratic shenaningans, where I'm only learning the wrong way to get things done. I want out." and you also said you didn't have any ideas for new products or interest in starting your own company. So move to a place where everything is different and that should be sufficient challenge to keep you interested in life. Bureaucracy might be the same, but it's going to be a different kind of bureaucracy.
I also strongly recommend you find a girl with the exact opposite personality as you. If you are introverted, she should be extroverted. If you are analytical and cautious, she should be free spirited. There are actually studies that have shown the exact opposite Myers-Briggs personality type is an ideal match since you'll complement each other very well as a unit, creating a balanced unit facing the world. So if you are a INTJ programmer she should be a ESFP party girl. You might say gosh but we have nothing in common, I can't relate to her way of thinking at all. And it turns out that's exactly what is best. Rather than stay at home surfing the net or playing video games or whatever she'll drag you out to parties or art openings where you'll meet some ambassador or Nobel Prize winner or what not.
The reason for this advice is because you said "I'm sick of corporate America and all its bureaucratic shenaningans, where I'm only learning the wrong way to get things done. I want out." and you also said you didn't have any ideas for new products or interest in starting your own company. So move to a place where everything is different and that should be sufficient challenge to keep you interested in life. Bureaucracy might be the same, but it's going to be a different kind of bureaucracy.
I also strongly recommend you find a girl with the exact opposite personality as you. If you are introverted, she should be extroverted. If you are analytical and cautious, she should be free spirited. There are actually studies that have shown the exact opposite Myers-Briggs personality type is an ideal match since you'll complement each other very well as a unit, creating a balanced unit facing the world. So if you are a INTJ programmer she should be a ESFP party girl. You might say gosh but we have nothing in common, I can't relate to her way of thinking at all. And it turns out that's exactly what is best. Rather than stay at home surfing the net or playing video games or whatever she'll drag you out to parties or art openings where you'll meet some ambassador or Nobel Prize winner or what not.
Now we're sidestepping this entirely, but I never really understood that sentiment. Do people really have some sort of ideal spouse image inside their head and then seek out someone to fit? That doesn't fit with my version of reality.
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Could you link to these studies? I seem to recall reading the exact opposite a little while ago (similar people do better together), but I'm not sure where I read that either.
As a practical matter, it seems to me that an INTJ would have a hard time meeting an ESFP since they would not enjoy the same activities and would not cross paths too often.
As a practical matter, it seems to me that an INTJ would have a hard time meeting an ESFP since they would not enjoy the same activities and would not cross paths too often.
Kiersey cites them in his book, which I don't have a copy of right now. They tested couples and their satisfaction with marriage, and then formulated type recommendations. This is also how the career counseling angle works. They actually test people in various careers and then find who is happiest and most successful, and this is what forms the basis of recommendations for career counseling based on MBTI results. It's not subjective but based on what tends to work out well in terms of happiness between people in relationships and between person and career in large populations.
For relationships the results are sorted not by the most common pairings, but the most successful.
As far as INTJ meeting ESFP, it does happen. People meet in bars, get references from others, meet in church. Perhaps INTJ is tutoring math to ESFP who is studying to be an elementary school teacher and they start dating.
In a relationship this is a pretty good entrepreneurial husband/wife pairing as well. Husband makes the product, wife does sales and marketing (ESFP specialty) and finds out from customers what they really need. ESFP in this case will help him understand and interface with the bureaucratic mentality, and also provide a front face and extremely enthusiastic explanations of his incredible value to the company he works for, or the investors who are funding him, or whatever he is up to. She'll also naturally bring him into contact with these investors, partners, or mentors and massively leverage his life opportunities, which will lead to a lot of success and happiness.
The world is not made for INTJ or INTP and does not understand either of them. The right partner can and will completely solve this problem.
With opposite pairings, there is no friction or stress from one trying to change the other because they are so different that sort of change is thought impossible, it would be like an elephant trying to change a giraffe into an elephant.
For relationships the results are sorted not by the most common pairings, but the most successful.
As far as INTJ meeting ESFP, it does happen. People meet in bars, get references from others, meet in church. Perhaps INTJ is tutoring math to ESFP who is studying to be an elementary school teacher and they start dating.
In a relationship this is a pretty good entrepreneurial husband/wife pairing as well. Husband makes the product, wife does sales and marketing (ESFP specialty) and finds out from customers what they really need. ESFP in this case will help him understand and interface with the bureaucratic mentality, and also provide a front face and extremely enthusiastic explanations of his incredible value to the company he works for, or the investors who are funding him, or whatever he is up to. She'll also naturally bring him into contact with these investors, partners, or mentors and massively leverage his life opportunities, which will lead to a lot of success and happiness.
The world is not made for INTJ or INTP and does not understand either of them. The right partner can and will completely solve this problem.
With opposite pairings, there is no friction or stress from one trying to change the other because they are so different that sort of change is thought impossible, it would be like an elephant trying to change a giraffe into an elephant.
Socionics, which is a Jungian typology that's similar to but different from MBTI developed primarily in Russia, provides some of the evidence for this. The types in Socionics don't map one-to-one onto MBTI types, but the general idea of what the grandparent is saying is supported by the concept of "dual" types within Socionics. The basic idea behind a duals is that you get along best with people who share your attitudes/proclivities, but have complementary strengths/weaknesses within those dispositions. And yes, meeting duals is often pretty hard, especially for certain pairs, because they move in different social circles and environments.
It's very interesting stuff and it seems to me like it's onto something, but it's still pretty fringe, and has not been convincingly statistically validated yet. I'm very interested in formalizing these notions and subjecting them to statistically well-founded empirical tests. Right now there's a lot of enthusiasm for Socionics in Russia, but not much work in the Western world. Email or IM me if interested in chatting about this.
Also, since it's so new, beware of crackpottery... there's some people who claim absurd things like being able to determine someone's dominant Socionic type just by seeing a photograph.
It's very interesting stuff and it seems to me like it's onto something, but it's still pretty fringe, and has not been convincingly statistically validated yet. I'm very interested in formalizing these notions and subjecting them to statistically well-founded empirical tests. Right now there's a lot of enthusiasm for Socionics in Russia, but not much work in the Western world. Email or IM me if interested in chatting about this.
Also, since it's so new, beware of crackpottery... there's some people who claim absurd things like being able to determine someone's dominant Socionic type just by seeing a photograph.
OK, finally found a list of studies that discuss complementary type matching.
http://www.capt.org/research/couple-mbti.htm
Liberty's dissertation on attitude-antagonistic coupling covers his research with couples who have the worst-scenario matching, an example of which would be INFJ and ENFP getting together. These pairings will generally make each other completely miserable.
http://www.capt.org/research/couple-mbti.htm
Liberty's dissertation on attitude-antagonistic coupling covers his research with couples who have the worst-scenario matching, an example of which would be INFJ and ENFP getting together. These pairings will generally make each other completely miserable.
May I comment, that it's disingenuous to travel for the purpose of looking for a life partner? For all you know, you'll have met the partner of your dreams at the bar down the road after you get back from your travels, because you are full of stories and invigoration.
This is advice specific to his particular situation. His comments about a particular style of corporate bureaucracy indicate a mismatch between his temperament and that culture. But he doesn't want to work for himself. This means a long term move to a different culture is in order. To make that permanent if desired, foreign marriage is a good way to obtain the permanent right to work overseas. It is much more difficult for US citizens with tech skills to emigrate to other countries than is the reverse, but marriage bypasses all of that. The advice on personalities is because otherwise he will either go for a random choice that will be a bad match or foolishly pick someone of similar temperament, which in his INTJ case will doom both of them.
I'm really in shock by your comment about using relationships between human beings so blithely, and I'm afraid it shows a naivete about how world immigration works. Many other places are not more difficult to immigrate to, I use the Working Holiday as an example as a way to get your foot in the door.
Want to move to the Netherlands? As a U.S. citizen apply to the Friendship Program, prove you can support yourself for 5 years and get residency.
Want to move to Mexico? Show them you have $1000 in your account every month and get residency.
Want to spend a year in Australia, New Zealand? Working holiday visa for US citizen under 30. (more options if you're not from the U.S.).
Want to spend a year or more in Europe? Apply for a research or arts visa.
Some people do not live their lives looking for a wife (or husband in my case) and to suggest to a 24 year old that he find the perfect fit as if he were buying a Filipino wife from a catalog who also likes dogs and long walks on the beach is irresponsible.
(Oh, and want to move to the U.S.? Good luck doing that as easily as any of the ways mentioned above)
Want to move to the Netherlands? As a U.S. citizen apply to the Friendship Program, prove you can support yourself for 5 years and get residency.
Want to move to Mexico? Show them you have $1000 in your account every month and get residency.
Want to spend a year in Australia, New Zealand? Working holiday visa for US citizen under 30. (more options if you're not from the U.S.).
Want to spend a year or more in Europe? Apply for a research or arts visa.
Some people do not live their lives looking for a wife (or husband in my case) and to suggest to a 24 year old that he find the perfect fit as if he were buying a Filipino wife from a catalog who also likes dogs and long walks on the beach is irresponsible.
(Oh, and want to move to the U.S.? Good luck doing that as easily as any of the ways mentioned above)
You are very defensive about this. It is not advice to you or anyone else here other than the OP, and it's advice specifically based on what he mentioned. He is introverted and an engineer, dissatisfied with his culture. He has done travel but not gotten much enjoyment from it. My recommendation is to move to another culture and resettle there. I also have advise for him to get involved in a relationship, which will really help with his life enjoyment if he picks someone the exact opposite on the personality spectrum, especially given his type which is prone towards holing up and doing research or engineering.
Since he will be moving to another culture this means his most available girlfriends will be someone overseas. Should this lead to marriage it then becomes a good way to remain in the culture.
It has nothing to do with mail order brides or race betrayal or whatever you are freaking out about. It has to do with a complete package of advice for this one person and his circumstance. It is not meant to apply to you or to people in general.
Since he will be moving to another culture this means his most available girlfriends will be someone overseas. Should this lead to marriage it then becomes a good way to remain in the culture.
It has nothing to do with mail order brides or race betrayal or whatever you are freaking out about. It has to do with a complete package of advice for this one person and his circumstance. It is not meant to apply to you or to people in general.
For the record, I never said I didn't want to work for myself, just that I wasn't ready to start my own company. And I don't think corporate culture is unique to the US, despite my phrasing as "corporate America."
Thanks. I'll take your suggestion to experience something different, although I find it curious that you chose to frame this as relationship advice.
> Traveling around the world is frequently suggested here. I like to travel, and have done a fair amount of it. But I can't shake the feeling that I'm running away from my problems and not confronting them.
+1, I like to travel too, and perhaps spending a month trotting around Europe would be an eye-opening experience, but I always think you'd get back home and think "well... now what?". Similar to the feeling I get when I finish watching a movie - enjoyable for the duration, but no real lasting benefit.
I can't speak for you, but I can share my ideas about what I would do in that position (I am a 27 year old developer with a good education and work experience):
Take some taught courses to get my weaknesses up to scratch - for me it's Mathematics and Motivation. I don't know how the second can be fixed but the first is easy.
Then I would specialise in my interest areas - for me it's machine learning in various forms. Probably I'd do a PhD.
I'd seek to network a lot better than I have in the past. I have friends working for very exciting companies, and I think if we all got together something amazing could happen, but they're mostly in London and I'm not. I'd fix that too.
So in summary, my plan would be to get my knowledge and skills up to speed, and then arrange my life to coincide with like-minded individuals as much as possible.
+1, I like to travel too, and perhaps spending a month trotting around Europe would be an eye-opening experience, but I always think you'd get back home and think "well... now what?". Similar to the feeling I get when I finish watching a movie - enjoyable for the duration, but no real lasting benefit.
I can't speak for you, but I can share my ideas about what I would do in that position (I am a 27 year old developer with a good education and work experience):
Take some taught courses to get my weaknesses up to scratch - for me it's Mathematics and Motivation. I don't know how the second can be fixed but the first is easy.
Then I would specialise in my interest areas - for me it's machine learning in various forms. Probably I'd do a PhD.
I'd seek to network a lot better than I have in the past. I have friends working for very exciting companies, and I think if we all got together something amazing could happen, but they're mostly in London and I'm not. I'd fix that too.
So in summary, my plan would be to get my knowledge and skills up to speed, and then arrange my life to coincide with like-minded individuals as much as possible.
For an instant change I suggest you'd break out of some of your usual habits. Since I don't know what those are, take my suggestions with a grain of salt:
Don't go home after work - join a gym, go bicycling, walk thru the city till it gets dark.
If you're used to go to bed early - stay up late and spend the next day at the office trying not to fall asleep.
If you don't hang out during the weekends - call some of your friends and get really wasted.
etc.
The point is getting new perspectives on life, new experiences will help you find out what you really want and need.
Don't go home after work - join a gym, go bicycling, walk thru the city till it gets dark.
If you're used to go to bed early - stay up late and spend the next day at the office trying not to fall asleep.
If you don't hang out during the weekends - call some of your friends and get really wasted.
etc.
The point is getting new perspectives on life, new experiences will help you find out what you really want and need.
First, decide whether you're going to have a career change or a career interruption. If you decide on the latter, give it a few weeks. Just do whatever you want and don't feel guilty or wonder how it will extrapolate into the future. You are a smart and productive person; eventually you will find yourself doing something you enjoy and are proud of.
It's natural that you're scared of the vacuum. A good friend of mine, a very nice and moral person, told me that if he didn't believe in God there would be nothing stopping him from stealing, lying, killing, and raping as much as he could get away with. He was completely wrong, of course. Your worry that in the absence of obligations you will waste your time and not do anything worthwhile is wrong in the same way.
It's natural that you're scared of the vacuum. A good friend of mine, a very nice and moral person, told me that if he didn't believe in God there would be nothing stopping him from stealing, lying, killing, and raping as much as he could get away with. He was completely wrong, of course. Your worry that in the absence of obligations you will waste your time and not do anything worthwhile is wrong in the same way.
Thanks for your reassurance.
The problem is that I have evidence to the contrary. I have already started wasting time and not doing anything worthwhile.
In any case, I don't see myself doing anything other than programming for a career, though I ought to take some time to explore as well.
The problem is that I have evidence to the contrary. I have already started wasting time and not doing anything worthwhile.
In any case, I don't see myself doing anything other than programming for a career, though I ought to take some time to explore as well.
That's why I said give it time :-)
Collapsing is a natural reaction to the removal of pressure. You have spent a long time trying to do work that you didn't want to do. The corporate experience trains you to believe that you are naturally lazy, because you spend all day in agonized revulsion against the productive, useful work you are asked to do. The secret is that just because you do not want to do certain work for certain people does not mean you are lazy.
Other people have been in control of your productivity for a long time, and your only freedom was to resist, shut down, and be lazy. You need to indulge that until you feel completely reassured that you are free and in control of your own life. Then your own tendencies will come out, and I guarantee you that what little I know about you from your question (specifically, that you have skills that took a lot of time and unwitting dedication to develop, and that you worry about what you might or might not accomplish) is enough to know that you will be happiest doing productive work.
Collapsing is a natural reaction to the removal of pressure. You have spent a long time trying to do work that you didn't want to do. The corporate experience trains you to believe that you are naturally lazy, because you spend all day in agonized revulsion against the productive, useful work you are asked to do. The secret is that just because you do not want to do certain work for certain people does not mean you are lazy.
Other people have been in control of your productivity for a long time, and your only freedom was to resist, shut down, and be lazy. You need to indulge that until you feel completely reassured that you are free and in control of your own life. Then your own tendencies will come out, and I guarantee you that what little I know about you from your question (specifically, that you have skills that took a lot of time and unwitting dedication to develop, and that you worry about what you might or might not accomplish) is enough to know that you will be happiest doing productive work.
Wow, I never thought of it that way. I really really want to believe this is true... but time will tell.
The following video, narrated by Alan Watts, and animated by Trey Parker and Matt Stone, eloquently describes exactly what you have figured out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4&feature=playe...
You essentially have come to the realization that the things you have been lead to believe (career, wealth, social status, possessions) are not what will make you happy. This realization can go down a dark path of depression if you're not careful, so be careful and stay level headed. Definitely take time off, pursue interests you never had time for and completely stop worrying about the future. That's the important part, to stop thinking there's some sort of end goal that you're working toward.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4&feature=playe...
You essentially have come to the realization that the things you have been lead to believe (career, wealth, social status, possessions) are not what will make you happy. This realization can go down a dark path of depression if you're not careful, so be careful and stay level headed. Definitely take time off, pursue interests you never had time for and completely stop worrying about the future. That's the important part, to stop thinking there's some sort of end goal that you're working toward.
Thanks! I saw that a long time ago but definitely appreciated seeing it again. It was certainly helpful.
I'm 26, and if I were in your shoes, I guarantee I'd feel the same way (primarily, because I do already somewhat).
If I read this right, you're struggling to feel needed. I know this isn't exactly the same thing as the need to make a difference in the world, but it seems close enough to be actionable.
I say find some people who truly need you and do your best to help them. Is that teaching? Is that fixing their situation? Is that creating a new idea or product? This will take some exploration, but it has to be worth it, right?
And, none of us are perfect. I put the same pressure on myself (I've been programming since 7th grade, and I feel the exact same way about my questionable programming skills). But, we're all still learning, and I'm betting you're smart enough to make a difference in at least one person's life. Then you can extrapolate from there.
If I read this right, you're struggling to feel needed. I know this isn't exactly the same thing as the need to make a difference in the world, but it seems close enough to be actionable.
I say find some people who truly need you and do your best to help them. Is that teaching? Is that fixing their situation? Is that creating a new idea or product? This will take some exploration, but it has to be worth it, right?
And, none of us are perfect. I put the same pressure on myself (I've been programming since 7th grade, and I feel the exact same way about my questionable programming skills). But, we're all still learning, and I'm betting you're smart enough to make a difference in at least one person's life. Then you can extrapolate from there.
24, programmer at BigCo for several years, and I'm lost.
I've socked away enough coins to maintain my current lifestyle for the next 10 years, longer if I scale back a few things. (Believe me, it's pretty easy to do considering that I've never had car, house, or girlfriend -- and I plan to keep it that way for the forseeable future.) I've also freed myself of most of my other obligations that previously consumed my evenings and weekends.
I should be excited about this but I'm not, and I don't know why.
What I do know is that my current situation is unsustainable for long. I'm sick of corporate America and all its bureaucratic shenaningans, where I'm only learning the wrong way to get things done. I want out.
But I don't know what's next. I'm not in shape to start a company because I don't have any sort of overarching passion that will keep me motivated no matter what, nor do I have any monetizable hobbies or interests. I also have serious doubts about my programming skill, let alone ability to run a business. Everything I've been interested in making already exists in a form better than I can ever do myself. (That ought to be a wonderful thing in itself, but my selfish ego demands that I personally make a difference somewhere.)
Traveling around the world is frequently suggested here. I like to travel, and have done a fair amount of it. But I can't shake the feeling that I'm running away from my problems and not confronting them.
I realize that I'm blessed, maybe even spoiled. I've won the genetic lottery by having loving parents who encouraged me to work hard and do well. I've won the geographic lottery by having the opportunity to live in the USA, especially California. I've won the timing lottery by entering college when competition was less fierce and scholarships were more plentiful, and by graduating into a healthier job market just before the economy crashed. Life has dealt me a very good hand, yet I feel like I'm not making good use of it.
I think I have a variant of Early 21st Century Syndrome (cf. http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/93yaq/anyone_else_here_feel_like_theyre_never_fully/c0bcp8m?context=1). I wouldn't say I'm suffering from depression or burnout right now, but I strongly suspect that if I just quit without a plan, I will be heading there. (Either that, or I'll end up wasting my time on video games and internet.)
I probably just need an attitude change. But that in itself just seems so hard...