Moniker Deactivated My Domain 26 Days Before The Expiration Date(peterc.org)
peterc.org
Moniker Deactivated My Domain 26 Days Before The Expiration Date
http://peterc.org/blog/2010/345-moniker-deactivation.html
8 comments
This is good advice. But.
I agree with the gist of your point. I follow this process with some important domains because most TLDs are cheap. At ~$75-$99 per year (depending on registrar), .io is not cheap and it made no sense to cashflow at the time to throw years on it, especially as I hadn't made my mind up whether to jump to the .com I own before launch (seriously considering this now). That's my lame excuse ;-)
That aside, I'm fastidious with my calendar and delegated my responsibility by marking to renew the domain in late December prior to the expiry date. This is close to the line but still reasonably before it and this issue is something Moniker needs to clear up in its TOS or similar (Moniker even sent frequent e-mails telling me when it expired with no warning of this deactivation date.) Since I've not actually "launched" yet, I'm not baying for blood - just an improvement in their service.
I agree with the gist of your point. I follow this process with some important domains because most TLDs are cheap. At ~$75-$99 per year (depending on registrar), .io is not cheap and it made no sense to cashflow at the time to throw years on it, especially as I hadn't made my mind up whether to jump to the .com I own before launch (seriously considering this now). That's my lame excuse ;-)
That aside, I'm fastidious with my calendar and delegated my responsibility by marking to renew the domain in late December prior to the expiry date. This is close to the line but still reasonably before it and this issue is something Moniker needs to clear up in its TOS or similar (Moniker even sent frequent e-mails telling me when it expired with no warning of this deactivation date.) Since I've not actually "launched" yet, I'm not baying for blood - just an improvement in their service.
this and other failure modes are now in your control. monkier may be irresponsible, but their service looks sufficient for your needs.
If you mean, "I've learned my lesson" then yes. However, they still need to clear things up because not everyone else is going to know they do this and others probably have more important, revenue generating domains than mine ;-)
Good advice. The problem is though, with .io domains yearly prices are at about $70 (if i remember correctly). Renewing for 10 or so years is a pretty significant amount ($700+). Especially if your not sure about the potential of it or just don't have that kind of cash at hand.
Auto-renew and put two credit cards in the system, that should be enough to keep your stuff safe. Moniker is actually very good at making sure you do not lose your domains, that's their main claim to fame.
Is GoDaddy still your go-to registrar? I remember you having some security concerns about them in the past.
And, as always, thanks for the excellent advice. I just came from upping the registration lengths on all my domains ;-)
And, as always, thanks for the excellent advice. I just came from upping the registration lengths on all my domains ;-)
hey Peter,
Mail this guy: [email protected]
His full name is Monte Cahn, he's only going to be there for another 3 weeks or so so move while you can. (he started Moniker.com).
That should get your stuff sorted out in no time flat, Monte is very serious about preserving the reputation of the company he built, and has been even after selling to oversee.net.
If that does not get you sorted out fast enough to your liking let me know ([email protected]).
Mail this guy: [email protected]
His full name is Monte Cahn, he's only going to be there for another 3 weeks or so so move while you can. (he started Moniker.com).
That should get your stuff sorted out in no time flat, Monte is very serious about preserving the reputation of the company he built, and has been even after selling to oversee.net.
If that does not get you sorted out fast enough to your liking let me know ([email protected]).
Thanks, Jacques. Moniker's Twitter agent has told me they have escalated this case but it can't hurt to just give him a heads up!
(Luckily, I'm not baying for blood, I just want them to clear this up so both I and others won't get caught out by this undocumented policy again.)
(Luckily, I'm not baying for blood, I just want them to clear this up so both I and others won't get caught out by this undocumented policy again.)
Just a little update. I got a reply from Monte. He's traveling at a ICANN event but his reply was irrelevant to the complaint:
Yes Peter because these are special ccTLD's with
these rules. I suggest you renew prior to this
expiration date that the registry has in place for these
domains.
Why are people so quick to blog about problems before trying to get them solved? The article clearly states that it was only after posting the original that the Moniker agent was contacted, isn't that the first port-of-call?
I had a similar situation recently where I cancelled my auto-renewal 6 months before the renewal date and my site was pulled (even though I'd paid for the year). I could've blogged about it and tried to encourage everyone not to use the provider, but I just contacted them direct and got a quick resolution. Maybe if I'd had no response I'd have tried to make it public but there was no need as it was a simple mistake.
It seems to me that these days people want to shout out their problems far too quickly rather than try and get them fixed. This is a strange way of getting things resolved.
I had a similar situation recently where I cancelled my auto-renewal 6 months before the renewal date and my site was pulled (even though I'd paid for the year). I could've blogged about it and tried to encourage everyone not to use the provider, but I just contacted them direct and got a quick resolution. Maybe if I'd had no response I'd have tried to make it public but there was no need as it was a simple mistake.
It seems to me that these days people want to shout out their problems far too quickly rather than try and get them fixed. This is a strange way of getting things resolved.
When you've got a problem that is destroying your business, -any- time that you're forced to wait for them to contact you back is costing you money.
I don't blame him for reaching out to every available outlet while he waits.
In this case, he's already got at least 1 post that gives him someone else to contact in the company and get noticed.
And there's probably someone that works there that reads HN, so that's another thing in his favor.
I don't blame him for reaching out to every available outlet while he waits.
In this case, he's already got at least 1 post that gives him someone else to contact in the company and get noticed.
And there's probably someone that works there that reads HN, so that's another thing in his favor.
I have done this a few times over the past 10 years in the most egregious cases. You make a good point and it has been raised to me before.
I did try at least, but Moniker's support site is hideous. It's one of these "read the knowledge base 1001" nonsense sites that try to impede you getting in touch. I did some basic searches for things like "expired" and "pending deletion" with no results from their search engine. And you have to sign up for a whole new account just to use their separate support site..
Separate to that, this does not appear to be a one-off mistake, but a policy. Even if I had the ear of their CEO, I doubt they'd do anything beyond placate me, but this policy could burn a lot of other customers. The more people know about and whine about the policy, the more likely they are to resolve it.
I will concede, however, that I am keen on using my social media skills and connections to highlight things I consider bad. I believe it's the responsibility of the connected few to drive fear of the customer into the hearts of companies in order that they give solid service and that they do not violate their own TOS/contractual obligations. If Moniker had merely double billed me or been rude to me on chat, I wouldn't have written it up. When they take a site down and replace it with spam while I still legally own it against their TOS, that's time to get pissy.
I did try at least, but Moniker's support site is hideous. It's one of these "read the knowledge base 1001" nonsense sites that try to impede you getting in touch. I did some basic searches for things like "expired" and "pending deletion" with no results from their search engine. And you have to sign up for a whole new account just to use their separate support site..
Separate to that, this does not appear to be a one-off mistake, but a policy. Even if I had the ear of their CEO, I doubt they'd do anything beyond placate me, but this policy could burn a lot of other customers. The more people know about and whine about the policy, the more likely they are to resolve it.
I will concede, however, that I am keen on using my social media skills and connections to highlight things I consider bad. I believe it's the responsibility of the connected few to drive fear of the customer into the hearts of companies in order that they give solid service and that they do not violate their own TOS/contractual obligations. If Moniker had merely double billed me or been rude to me on chat, I wouldn't have written it up. When they take a site down and replace it with spam while I still legally own it against their TOS, that's time to get pissy.
Yikes. I use Moniker too, and this hasn't ever happened to me. I thought they were better than that.
I've had some very bad experiences with Moniker in the past.
I would even go so far as to say they are untrustworthy.
I would even go so far as to say they are untrustworthy.
Can you be more specific ? I've been a moniker customer for many years now and have a fairly large number of domains under my control, between myself and related companies about 50,000 of them or so, not a single complaint to date except for two minor technical issues which were dealt with quite fast.
Your definition of untrustworthy and shady may be a bit lower than that of ra if you are in the type of business that holds 50k domains. I mean seriously, what's your business model with 50k domains? Or are you like one of the hosting companies that offers a free domain with an online service?
> Your definition of untrustworthy and shady may be a bit lower than that of ra if you are in the type of business that holds 50k domains.
Thanks for playing mr. Anonymous, I don't think what I do for a living is a secret around here and did mention that that was a combined number between myself and a number of other companies.
If you're clueless about something the polite thing to do is to ask rather than to make insinuations.
Thanks for playing mr. Anonymous, I don't think what I do for a living is a secret around here and did mention that that was a combined number between myself and a number of other companies.
If you're clueless about something the polite thing to do is to ask rather than to make insinuations.
Well I did ask in my last sentence, and you haven't answered. I didn't then but I have now gone to your projects; I see reocities, the ww/webcam thing and your blog. I don't see anything like bluehost or linode provisioning domains to users. The reason for the slight snark at the start of my message I suppose is that it's hard to find a domain and yet in every thread like this you get a few people confessing to hoarding hundreds or even thousands. Sorry for being sceptical, and curious, about what you could possible need 50k domains for: you'll have to spell it out for me or ignore me I suppose.
Would a 45K servers co-location facility meet your requirements?
Or a couple of domain re-sellers that sell domains as part of their hosting package? (that use Moniker as their 'upstream').
> that it's hard to find a domain
I've never had that problem. You mean that you find it hard to find 'single word' or 'perfect descriptions' of common ideas, and that's true, but I'm fairly sure that you can find plenty of good domain names for exactly $8.
The value of a domain is directly proportional to the amount of time that you put in to it. Usually the people that complain about there not being any 'free' domains are really complaining that they can't get the domains they want. Not realizing perhaps that if the person currently holding their desired domain would not be holding it surely someone else would.
There are all kinds of arguments for/against holding a large number of domains, my own criterion has always been that if my idea isn't worth the $8/year fee for a domain then I should not even bother to write it out. If you come by 6 weeks later and have the same idea, and through sheer coincidence decide on the same name then you will have to be just a little bit more creative, but we all agree the value is in the execution, not in the domain name.
Google.com was worth $8 when they got it first, and at that time the same complaint was often heard.
It's like the DNS variation on the HN/Reddit theme, and I figure as long as the DNS is the prevalent method of locating hosts this will continue to be the case.
In a few years time all the 6 letter domains will be gone, etc. But there are an awful lot of possibilities there, 300M+, someone did some work to prove just how likely it is that some pronounceable domain is gone:
http://semmyfun.blogspot.com/2010/09/what-is-probability-tha...
For 7 letters (which is really quite short) that does not look all that bad to me.
Or a couple of domain re-sellers that sell domains as part of their hosting package? (that use Moniker as their 'upstream').
> that it's hard to find a domain
I've never had that problem. You mean that you find it hard to find 'single word' or 'perfect descriptions' of common ideas, and that's true, but I'm fairly sure that you can find plenty of good domain names for exactly $8.
The value of a domain is directly proportional to the amount of time that you put in to it. Usually the people that complain about there not being any 'free' domains are really complaining that they can't get the domains they want. Not realizing perhaps that if the person currently holding their desired domain would not be holding it surely someone else would.
There are all kinds of arguments for/against holding a large number of domains, my own criterion has always been that if my idea isn't worth the $8/year fee for a domain then I should not even bother to write it out. If you come by 6 weeks later and have the same idea, and through sheer coincidence decide on the same name then you will have to be just a little bit more creative, but we all agree the value is in the execution, not in the domain name.
Google.com was worth $8 when they got it first, and at that time the same complaint was often heard.
It's like the DNS variation on the HN/Reddit theme, and I figure as long as the DNS is the prevalent method of locating hosts this will continue to be the case.
In a few years time all the 6 letter domains will be gone, etc. But there are an awful lot of possibilities there, 300M+, someone did some work to prove just how likely it is that some pronounceable domain is gone:
http://semmyfun.blogspot.com/2010/09/what-is-probability-tha...
For 7 letters (which is really quite short) that does not look all that bad to me.
Once Moniker were a good registrar, but not anymore.
My complaints about Moniker include not answering support emails, refusing domain transfers for no reason (domains I had sold - which naturally upset the counterparty), support staff putting me on hold and never coming back. I could go on.
I used to have over 250 domains with them, but after their third or so screw up (without a hint of an apology or indication that they even cared about my business) I moved all of my stash to nearlyfreespeech.
Couldn't be happier with nearlyfreespeech.
My complaints about Moniker include not answering support emails, refusing domain transfers for no reason (domains I had sold - which naturally upset the counterparty), support staff putting me on hold and never coming back. I could go on.
I used to have over 250 domains with them, but after their third or so screw up (without a hint of an apology or indication that they even cared about my business) I moved all of my stash to nearlyfreespeech.
Couldn't be happier with nearlyfreespeech.
Do me a favor and mail me some specifics, I'll make some noise on your behalf, see where it leads. I think you deserve at least an answer about what was going on there.
Thanks but it was over a year ago, I committed a fair bit of time trying to sort out these issues with them. In the end, I voted with my feet.
But thanks anyway.
But thanks anyway.
This seems to me to be a problem with TLD based names. They all have different policies for this stuff. I once had to recover a .SE name due to a situation just like this. I had planned to re-register a name, but fell within a strange situation where my domain was still mine, but outside of a 60 day window when I could actually renew the domain. This was all in advance of the actual expiration date. Because of this, the domain lapsed and I had to have the registrar recover the domain manually.
I wonder if they want to check how much traffic a domain gets before it expires so they can snatch up the good ones.
Can they not do that after the domain expires while it's still in the pending delete phase?
I think this should be the normal way of doing things. I cringe when I hear about people renewing domain names after they expired. I think the records should be changed prior to the domains expiring so they could hard-expire X years after being registered and people would know exactly when they really need to renew them.
But, of course, since it's not in their TOS, and isn't either the normal way of doing things or stated very loud and clear during the registering process, it's unacceptable.
But, of course, since it's not in their TOS, and isn't either the normal way of doing things or stated very loud and clear during the registering process, it's unacceptable.
You think deleting the registration before it expires should be normal?
No, I think changing the DNS before it expires should be normal. Changing the DNS to a tacky parked page is often the only thing that gets peoples' attention, including highly competent people. I think if DNS changed 30 days before N years after the registration date, it would get people to extend the registration before the official expiry date. The date that DNS changes would be a date that the domain owner would get warned about.
Having a window after the official expiration date that few people know isn't elegant to me. Also in the vast majority of cases, if it's valuable to keep a domain 11 months after registering it, it's valuable to keep it longer.
Having a window after the official expiration date that few people know isn't elegant to me. Also in the vast majority of cases, if it's valuable to keep a domain 11 months after registering it, it's valuable to keep it longer.
unbelievable--if i renew my domain with one day to spare every year without any mistake or delay in payment, you believe my websites should be interrupted! for what, besides being on time?
For your own good. If dhh can delay renewing rubyrails.com until the domain gets cut off, many of us can forget to renew our much less important names!
If you sell me twelve months, cutting me off at eleven is fraud. If you want to offer a "reminder" that makes me look like an idiot in public (when I haven't even screwed up!), make it opt-in.
For your own good, domain registrars should contact you, by email, well in advance of an expiration. Worst case scenario, the name is held by the registrar for the grace period and the former owner has exclusive rights to it during that term.
Moniker actually sense out these emails regular like clockwork.
A sample:
# 0 Domains Pending Deletion - [ RENEW NOW ]
# 0 Domains Pending Deactivation
# 0 Domains Expiring Within 7 Days
# 51 Domains Expiring Within 35 Days
# 146 Domains Expiring Within 75 Days
So they actually start warning more than two months in advance.
A sample:
# 0 Domains Pending Deletion - [ RENEW NOW ]
# 0 Domains Pending Deactivation
# 0 Domains Expiring Within 7 Days
# 51 Domains Expiring Within 35 Days
# 146 Domains Expiring Within 75 Days
So they actually start warning more than two months in advance.
This is kind of what happens anyway. If you let a domain expire, there is still a 'grace period' where you can renew it before it becomes available for someone else to buy. So, in those terms, the expiry date is a soft limit, and the end of the grace period marks a hard limit.
Domain names are cheap and abandonment is infrequent and unlikely to save much money, for most people on HN. So renew them early, for long terms. For your business or blog or other domain which will be a going concern for the foreseeable future, go renew it for ten years. If your business gets sold to Amazon tomorrow, oh well, that cost you only $60 ~ $80 or so.
I own a small stable of domains (a few dozen) and keep most of them on rolling two year registrations, with my main ones (product sites, my blog, etc) on rolling five year registrations. I renew all of them yearly. This way, screwups by myself, my bank, Paypal, or GoDaddy probably won't deprive me of use of my property.