Ask HN: Are you embarrassed by your failed projects?
Everyone goes on and on about there is no penalty for failure... However, over the years I have launched a few side projects, and I have eventually shut them all down. They were met with disinterest or in some cases only casual interest... the worst part is the people that actually liked your product. they are the ones that always bring it up. has anyone else had similar experiences? also, how do you deal with promoting your next project in light of all the past failures?
50 comments
I'm embarrassed by those projects that failed where I failed to apply lessons learned in the past, but for the most part those are incidents.
The majority of the 'public failures' failed for new or unexpected reasons and I have absolutely no qualms about being open about it or analyzing them (in private or in public).
I'm far more suspicious of people that have never failed or that feel that don't want to talk about their failures. Pointing the finger of 'fail' at yourself and taking responsibility for mistakes made is a great way to improve your game and to increase the chances of eventual success.
As for dealing with this when promoting the 'next thing', I don't make any links between projects and I try to keep my person 'out' of the day to day running of any of the projects that I'm involved in, for the most part I'm the invisible man. So whatever failures there were if they might be problematic it does not carry over. But I'm actually not aware of any of that. Most projects, even the failed ones will leave you with the net positive goodwill that results from trying and trying hard.
The majority of the 'public failures' failed for new or unexpected reasons and I have absolutely no qualms about being open about it or analyzing them (in private or in public).
I'm far more suspicious of people that have never failed or that feel that don't want to talk about their failures. Pointing the finger of 'fail' at yourself and taking responsibility for mistakes made is a great way to improve your game and to increase the chances of eventual success.
As for dealing with this when promoting the 'next thing', I don't make any links between projects and I try to keep my person 'out' of the day to day running of any of the projects that I'm involved in, for the most part I'm the invisible man. So whatever failures there were if they might be problematic it does not carry over. But I'm actually not aware of any of that. Most projects, even the failed ones will leave you with the net positive goodwill that results from trying and trying hard.
I'm not embarrassed that I'm no longer a salaryman or a technical translator or a teacher or an order entry operator or a lab attendant or a toothbrush-wielding oil pipe cleaner or a paperboy. If I'm not embarrassed about switching entire careers, why would I worry about not continuing with all side projects?
My first business idea was making scrolling LED displays.
I tried this about 20 years ago. At the time I didn't realize that almost ALL electronics are manufactured off shore and that it would be impossible to compete. We did make a prototype but that as far as we went with the business. I learned that just because I could make something doesnt mean that I can build a business around it. There is a lot to learn before one becomes well versed in the field of startups. The word failure is not appropriate for our field. I think not yet succeeded is better.
I've had many unsuccessful start up experiences, however it's hard for me to call them failures. It takes a lot of effort to truly fail, most of these times I just quit. I quit before I gave these ideas a real chance to grow.
Growing a real business is like growing a tree from a seed. If you stop watering too soon, you never know how big the tree could have grown.
On the note of how to move forward from these experiences. It's important to analyze each project and figure out the exact reason they weren't successful. For me I had to realize I thought I knew more than I did and that my ego was getting in the way. I had to realize I couldn't do everything on my own. I learned that cash is king and there are almost always ways to get what you need done on the cheap or free (exchange). I had to learn to delegate tasks that I shouldn't be wasting my time on.
It sucks really bad to think of these past projects and it often took me months or years to bring myself to think about them seriously without blowing their lack of success to exterior conditions out of my control.
Growing a real business is like growing a tree from a seed. If you stop watering too soon, you never know how big the tree could have grown.
On the note of how to move forward from these experiences. It's important to analyze each project and figure out the exact reason they weren't successful. For me I had to realize I thought I knew more than I did and that my ego was getting in the way. I had to realize I couldn't do everything on my own. I learned that cash is king and there are almost always ways to get what you need done on the cheap or free (exchange). I had to learn to delegate tasks that I shouldn't be wasting my time on.
It sucks really bad to think of these past projects and it often took me months or years to bring myself to think about them seriously without blowing their lack of success to exterior conditions out of my control.
Depends on what you metric you're using for 'failure'.
I normally define it as some mixture of revenue and traffic (I don't mind low revenue if it's high traffic and vice versa).
But there are other important metrics too. People have already mentioned what you learn from the project. If you learn something, it's not a complete failure.
Another metric is the effect you have on people. One of my coolest ideas (imho) was http://thingsinbooks.com. It gets about 10 visits per day, so by that metric it's a failure. It never earned any revenue so it's a failure by that metric. I didn't really learn anything from doing it either.
But despite the lack of traffic, people still link to it and even upload their finds from time to time (126 finds so far!). So in that way it has some elements of success, even though I've failed to capitalise on the interest and turn it into a popular site.
I normally define it as some mixture of revenue and traffic (I don't mind low revenue if it's high traffic and vice versa).
But there are other important metrics too. People have already mentioned what you learn from the project. If you learn something, it's not a complete failure.
Another metric is the effect you have on people. One of my coolest ideas (imho) was http://thingsinbooks.com. It gets about 10 visits per day, so by that metric it's a failure. It never earned any revenue so it's a failure by that metric. I didn't really learn anything from doing it either.
But despite the lack of traffic, people still link to it and even upload their finds from time to time (126 finds so far!). So in that way it has some elements of success, even though I've failed to capitalise on the interest and turn it into a popular site.
I am usually too busy regretting the lost time to be embarrassed.
I always choose projects that, if they succeed, will become a launching point for something(s) larger. They represent the beginning of an exponential growth curve, where the x axis is the seconds I have to spend (before I cease to be) and the y axis is the derivative of accomplishment. A failed project represents a wasted fraction of those seconds, which pushes the exponential growth curve to the right (and some portion of it is pushed beyond my allotted lifespan, which is the right-hand limit of my integral). My integral is irreparably reduced.
You can expand your accomplishment-integral bound beyond your lifespan. Still, that axis is probably finite, and the integral will never catch up with where it could have reached had I/you not failed in the first place.
I always choose projects that, if they succeed, will become a launching point for something(s) larger. They represent the beginning of an exponential growth curve, where the x axis is the seconds I have to spend (before I cease to be) and the y axis is the derivative of accomplishment. A failed project represents a wasted fraction of those seconds, which pushes the exponential growth curve to the right (and some portion of it is pushed beyond my allotted lifespan, which is the right-hand limit of my integral). My integral is irreparably reduced.
You can expand your accomplishment-integral bound beyond your lifespan. Still, that axis is probably finite, and the integral will never catch up with where it could have reached had I/you not failed in the first place.
Are you embarrassed because you feel like you could have put more into the projects that failed, or just because they failed?
Failure is perfectly acceptable - if you ask any successful entrepreneur, they likely had a string of failed projects.
However, it's important to make sure that the failures bring your forward rather than setting you back. Make sure that you learn something from every failure, and don't repeat past mistakes.
If your problem has been building a project and then discovering that people aren't interested, do the customer development before you build the product. Or build something that you desperately want to use.
Failure is perfectly acceptable - if you ask any successful entrepreneur, they likely had a string of failed projects.
However, it's important to make sure that the failures bring your forward rather than setting you back. Make sure that you learn something from every failure, and don't repeat past mistakes.
If your problem has been building a project and then discovering that people aren't interested, do the customer development before you build the product. Or build something that you desperately want to use.
I feel like this question was very recently asked, and the real question I have for you is: why do you call it a failure?
To me, failure is an antiquated term you outgrow in school: F means failure, which really means you can't advance on to the next term. After school, when does that ever matter as an entrepreneur? Have you ever not learned something valuable from a past entrepreneurial experience? Would you say you are better or worse off from having done those things in the past? You're always learning, always growing, and you are a man of free will who can do whatever else he wants.
How is that, in any way, failure?
To me, failure is an antiquated term you outgrow in school: F means failure, which really means you can't advance on to the next term. After school, when does that ever matter as an entrepreneur? Have you ever not learned something valuable from a past entrepreneurial experience? Would you say you are better or worse off from having done those things in the past? You're always learning, always growing, and you are a man of free will who can do whatever else he wants.
How is that, in any way, failure?
Looking back. I'm not so much embarrassed about the failed projects, so much as knowing the things I might have done differently to change the outcome for the better.
Thats neither here nor there seeing as how you just take it all with a grain of salt, add and apply that knowledge to current projects and keep chugging along trying not to second guess yourself.
However, the code written for some of those past projects; I hope it never sees the light of day. Thats the only thing I'm embarrassed about. So if thats the worst of my issues, I think im doing okay.
Thats neither here nor there seeing as how you just take it all with a grain of salt, add and apply that knowledge to current projects and keep chugging along trying not to second guess yourself.
However, the code written for some of those past projects; I hope it never sees the light of day. Thats the only thing I'm embarrassed about. So if thats the worst of my issues, I think im doing okay.
It helps to know that the success for startups is very low to begin with. That being said, once you graduated to a certain level of mastery, then that's when you win.
I equate it to the days when I tried my hand at pickup. Sure, 99 out of 100 girls will reject you, but if 1 girl says yes, then it would definitely be worth it. It all depends on whether you can keep on going, despite every failure. The goal is not to be fazed by failure/rejection.
I equate it to the days when I tried my hand at pickup. Sure, 99 out of 100 girls will reject you, but if 1 girl says yes, then it would definitely be worth it. It all depends on whether you can keep on going, despite every failure. The goal is not to be fazed by failure/rejection.
Never embarrassed. I use failed projects as a way to learn and improve on the process and next project.
Take what's worth saving and leave the rest: mistakes not to repeat, lessons worth learning, and view failures as learning experiences not as dead luggage following you.
Take what's worth saving and leave the rest: mistakes not to repeat, lessons worth learning, and view failures as learning experiences not as dead luggage following you.
The thing about failed projects is that they're not seen as failure by your next employer, they're seen experience and potential. At the very least, you learn from it and use this knowledge on your next project.
Absolutely. At the time. But in retrospect I've learned to value them and even embrace them. It's become my speaking gig: http://vimeo.com/15455886
I'm embarrassed by the ones I've been working on for a long time but never released. Not by the ones that I did release but failed to gain any traction.
A little, I started projects when I was 16 (some silly web game) that might not be too PC, and the code is awful, and I've rewritten the code twice!
I'm a lot more embarrassed by the few times I didn't even try than the times I did try and failed.
embarassed? no. but i've done some projects that failed that i don't mention to anyone anymore. the only thing left of them are the lessons learned in my mind.
I'm only embarrassed by the projects I never started.
No, I'm only embarrassed by my incomplete projects.
No way.
Never.
There are defeats more triumphant than victories.
—Michel de Montaigne
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
—Thomas Edison
There are defeats more triumphant than victories.
—Michel de Montaigne
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
—Thomas Edison
Nope. No better way to learn what not to do.
Embarrassed by my failed projects? Not really. I just pretend that they never happened.
Not if someone directly asks, of course; but in my autobiography the failed projects rather drift into the mists of time. The same goes for most creative people: You hear about Tolkien's Lord of the Rings, but you never hear about the books he started but never made any progress on.
Not if someone directly asks, of course; but in my autobiography the failed projects rather drift into the mists of time. The same goes for most creative people: You hear about Tolkien's Lord of the Rings, but you never hear about the books he started but never made any progress on.
I see it like this:
Success is relative, yet you can measure success. The more projects you've done, the more successful they ought to become (although some variance on that graph is perfectly normal, I presume). If you don't improve in pulling off your projects, you are doing something wrong, and then you should revise on what to improve upon in order to progress.
Having failed before is actually an indication that you're more likely to succeed (relatively).
Success is relative, yet you can measure success. The more projects you've done, the more successful they ought to become (although some variance on that graph is perfectly normal, I presume). If you don't improve in pulling off your projects, you are doing something wrong, and then you should revise on what to improve upon in order to progress.
Having failed before is actually an indication that you're more likely to succeed (relatively).
It depends on why they failed.
I was involved in a project that failed because of a moral mistake I made. You could blame it on the culture (my whole team, my boss, my bosses boss, and the director of the organization were all "fired" because of this incident) but I was the one person who could have stopped it. And I didn't.
To be fair, I probably would have lost my job had I done the right thing. On the other hand, I would have kept my integrity and, retrospectively, I know I could have gotten a new job very easily at that time.
I was very embarrassed by that, and it screwed up my life for a while... Hell, I gained 40 pounds as a result.
The big picture is that you have to ask yourself, "What is the cause of this failure?" Sometimes you gamble, sometimes you get a "2-7" with nonmatching suits and you go all in before the flop. People have won the WSOP playing like this... People also lose big playing like this.
Myself, developing web sites on my own account, I've noticed that most web developers (in the sense of a real estate developer) create something that 'maxes out' their potential) and they never make anything that cool again. Personally, I'm trying to be more systematic and gradually make things that are bigger and bigger.
I was involved in a project that failed because of a moral mistake I made. You could blame it on the culture (my whole team, my boss, my bosses boss, and the director of the organization were all "fired" because of this incident) but I was the one person who could have stopped it. And I didn't.
To be fair, I probably would have lost my job had I done the right thing. On the other hand, I would have kept my integrity and, retrospectively, I know I could have gotten a new job very easily at that time.
I was very embarrassed by that, and it screwed up my life for a while... Hell, I gained 40 pounds as a result.
The big picture is that you have to ask yourself, "What is the cause of this failure?" Sometimes you gamble, sometimes you get a "2-7" with nonmatching suits and you go all in before the flop. People have won the WSOP playing like this... People also lose big playing like this.
Myself, developing web sites on my own account, I've noticed that most web developers (in the sense of a real estate developer) create something that 'maxes out' their potential) and they never make anything that cool again. Personally, I'm trying to be more systematic and gradually make things that are bigger and bigger.
What kind of project failed?
I can help you either restart them with funding or offer advice on how to turn them around.
Like wise, if technology is good, I might be interested in buying some assets
Let me know
Have an awesome and very bright day!! [email protected]
Like wise, if technology is good, I might be interested in buying some assets
Let me know
Have an awesome and very bright day!! [email protected]
I consider myself reasonably fortunate, in that most of my side projects were made to scratch my own itch, and they all served me well.
In that sense, none of them failed, since their primary purpose was to statisfy one of my own needs, and so they did.
However, most of them never gained momentum, I stopped maintaining most of them after about a year, and hardly anyone missed them.
There's one or two where I still get a few questions, whether it's still in development, or "what happened to it?", even after years of stopping work on them - one can either view that as a failure, since the projects were shut down; or as success, since some still remember them fondly.
Being an optimist most of the time, I treat them as success.
In that sense, none of them failed, since their primary purpose was to statisfy one of my own needs, and so they did.
However, most of them never gained momentum, I stopped maintaining most of them after about a year, and hardly anyone missed them.
There's one or two where I still get a few questions, whether it's still in development, or "what happened to it?", even after years of stopping work on them - one can either view that as a failure, since the projects were shut down; or as success, since some still remember them fondly.
Being an optimist most of the time, I treat them as success.
Sooner embarrassed by the fact that I've programmed for for over a decade and haven't released anything of significance :)
I think I'm finally on the right path to finding ways of motivating myself to finish/release stuff, but that's another topic.
I think I'm finally on the right path to finding ways of motivating myself to finish/release stuff, but that's another topic.
No. Some of my 'worst' ideas have succeeded to my amazement. OTOH, some of my best ideas failed despite how 'awesome' they were.
When I look back, everything succeeded or failed based on timing and execution.
When I look back, everything succeeded or failed based on timing and execution.
I have one particular one that my wife teases me about semi-regularly. It keeps me humble (not that I have anything to be un-humble about).
I'm more embarassed by my lack of attention span to see side projects through to completion.
No, because they were awesome learning experiences. The term "failure" is very vague. Do you consider anything less than a profitable exit a failure? I have had many startups that did not go as planned but because I learned a lot and they (the startup) led me to other ideas I would not consider them failures. The only time I would be embarrassed about a failure is if I had quit and the company went on to succeeded with out me.
Never.
If the project was a success, I did it for the project.
If it wasn't, I did it to learn and grow.
Either way, nothing to be embarrassed about.
(Am I embarrassed by the code I wrote 3 years ago? Now that's another story.)
If the project was a success, I did it for the project.
If it wasn't, I did it to learn and grow.
Either way, nothing to be embarrassed about.
(Am I embarrassed by the code I wrote 3 years ago? Now that's another story.)
I think if you're not embarrassed by the code you wrote ages ago then you're not improving.
The code I wrote sucks. The code I am writing is cool. The code I am going to write rocks!
No, I don't think so. I'm still quite proud of the Vic-20 bulletin board I wrote 26 years ago that got me my first job as a programmer.
I'm embarrassed by the code I wrote last week.
See this is based on the assumption that "you did it for the project" or "to learn and grow", but failure (for me) is based on goals and one's inability to meet them. If your goal was to "create a project", you have succeeded even in the face of "failure", unless you never created your project. Most of us, however, have goals: get 100 users, design a great user experience, play 45 shows in a band, get a record deal, get famous.
I don't think you can repurpose your project as a learning experiment... even if you learned, what was the goal?
I don't think you can repurpose your project as a learning experiment... even if you learned, what was the goal?
I think you're right. I also think that's where the culture of learning is really powerful. You do need to set the expectation ahead of time that the real objective is learning or validated knowledge.
I have a company and we set goals, but our overarching goal is to learn. If we fail at meeting a metric there is always something to learn and take forward to the next attempt.
The only failure we define as a company is not setting your goals high enough to push yourself, or not taking your learning forward. That's how you build a culture that is willing to take risks. Defining failure as not meeting your metrics isn't productive.
I have a company and we set goals, but our overarching goal is to learn. If we fail at meeting a metric there is always something to learn and take forward to the next attempt.
The only failure we define as a company is not setting your goals high enough to push yourself, or not taking your learning forward. That's how you build a culture that is willing to take risks. Defining failure as not meeting your metrics isn't productive.
"No failure, only feedback." Now, you have to have a retrospective and really learn your lessons for this to work but it can be a very liberating mindset.
PS. I'm always embarrassed by the code I wrote ages ago as well... seriously, what I was I thinking?
Yes. I am really embarrassed about them. I started about 4-8 side projects. I have 0% success rate. My embarrassment comes in two forms: i) disappointing other people who are "part" of the team ii) self-disappointment that I cannot finish the full project myself. i) typically results in avoiding them for life. Don't get me wrong. In my corporate world, I am more successful.
One of the major characteristic that an entrepreneur should have is 'total disregard for others' opinion of you as a person'. It frees you from doing things that would otherwise make you compromise your vision.
"I am homeless....people are looking down on me and my daughter...guess I should stop writing this wizard school book"
"I'm a stay at home dad who's failed at tons of iterations as an inventor. Guess I should stop messing with vacuum cleaners"
"I am homeless....people are looking down on me and my daughter...guess I should stop writing this wizard school book"
"I'm a stay at home dad who's failed at tons of iterations as an inventor. Guess I should stop messing with vacuum cleaners"
I find it difficult to avoid a bit of embarrassment... yes, I did learn from it... The goal isn't to learn, failure is failure.
I try to find comfort in the things that went right and aim to not let it happen again, but it is nonetheless embarrassing.
I try to find comfort in the things that went right and aim to not let it happen again, but it is nonetheless embarrassing.
I (really) don't care about failing at all. I throwed ~10 sites to the bin and kept 2 (http://www.learnivore.com/ and http://www.toutpourmonipad.com/).
The one thing I notice is that the more I do these, the more I get ambitious and confident :)
I focus mainly on learning (how to launch/promote).
The one thing I notice is that the more I do these, the more I get ambitious and confident :)
I focus mainly on learning (how to launch/promote).
This is going to sound a little trite, but it's only a failure if you didn't learn from it.
Typically my list of failed projects informs my pitch about the next one. "My next project is more interesting from my past projects because in my past attempts I learned x"
People often understand taking knowledge from one experience and applying it to the next one. And I would argue that's what you should be doing if you want to better your chances of success.
Your path, your experiences, all tell a story and inform your future projects. It's up to you to make that a positive story.
Typically my list of failed projects informs my pitch about the next one. "My next project is more interesting from my past projects because in my past attempts I learned x"
People often understand taking knowledge from one experience and applying it to the next one. And I would argue that's what you should be doing if you want to better your chances of success.
Your path, your experiences, all tell a story and inform your future projects. It's up to you to make that a positive story.