Ask YC: Masters in CS? Or no?
27 comments
I did the co-term at Stanford about 6 years ago, though my goal at the time wasn't to go start a company or freelance right away. I'm personally glad I did it, and not because of any resume-padding or salary-boosting (I already had a job at a startup where I worked part-time while I did the co-term) but simply because it was a great opportunity to learn a lot of stuff. I knew that if I didn't do it right away, I'd probably never really want to go back, and I'd also never have another chance to do it in just one year.
There are just a lot of things that are harder to learn on your own. Want to learn SQL, OpenGL, TCP programming? Read some web pages or some books; you don't need a class for that stuff. Want to learn how to write your own database, rendering engine, network stack, compiler, or filesystem? Take a class. Especially if your goal is write enterprise software, which inherently involves building large, complex systems, some of those things will come in handy, if only by exposing you to new ways of thinking. My experience has always been that the practical stuff is easy enough to pick up on your own, but the theory is always harder. It can be done, you'll just learn it better and faster from a good professor.
If you've already taken all the 200 or 300-level courses in CS at Stanford that you want to take, I don't think you'll get much out of the MS. If there are a lot of those courses that you haven't taken and that still interest you, it's worth doing. If it's just a pure business play it's not worth it.
There are just a lot of things that are harder to learn on your own. Want to learn SQL, OpenGL, TCP programming? Read some web pages or some books; you don't need a class for that stuff. Want to learn how to write your own database, rendering engine, network stack, compiler, or filesystem? Take a class. Especially if your goal is write enterprise software, which inherently involves building large, complex systems, some of those things will come in handy, if only by exposing you to new ways of thinking. My experience has always been that the practical stuff is easy enough to pick up on your own, but the theory is always harder. It can be done, you'll just learn it better and faster from a good professor.
If you've already taken all the 200 or 300-level courses in CS at Stanford that you want to take, I don't think you'll get much out of the MS. If there are a lot of those courses that you haven't taken and that still interest you, it's worth doing. If it's just a pure business play it's not worth it.
Will a master's open up any doors that wouldn't be open for a Stanford grad with a good resume?
Wait and see.
In your case, I'm extremely doubtful that a master's will make any difference whatsoever. And getting one now is premature optimization. Wait until you find yourself trying to get a specific kind of job, but failing, because the jobs are being snapped up by people with advanced degrees. Then get a master's. It only takes a year.
I bet you'll wait a long time before that happens.
And why play the go-back-to-school-for-free card now? It's valuable. Keep it in your pocket for a while. You've been in school recently, at Stanford for god's sake -- you've already got a lot of recent contacts from your school days, and you're already in a startup hub. So, wait. After you spend a few years in industry, and find yourself stuck in a rut, you'll discover that it's wonderful to have a ready-made excuse to take a year off, go back to school, and make a whole new set of friends and professional contacts. You might even have a better idea of what you want to study, and where, and with whom.
Wait and see.
In your case, I'm extremely doubtful that a master's will make any difference whatsoever. And getting one now is premature optimization. Wait until you find yourself trying to get a specific kind of job, but failing, because the jobs are being snapped up by people with advanced degrees. Then get a master's. It only takes a year.
I bet you'll wait a long time before that happens.
And why play the go-back-to-school-for-free card now? It's valuable. Keep it in your pocket for a while. You've been in school recently, at Stanford for god's sake -- you've already got a lot of recent contacts from your school days, and you're already in a startup hub. So, wait. After you spend a few years in industry, and find yourself stuck in a rut, you'll discover that it's wonderful to have a ready-made excuse to take a year off, go back to school, and make a whole new set of friends and professional contacts. You might even have a better idea of what you want to study, and where, and with whom.
A MS usually requires about 30 credit hours, or 10 courses. Do these accelerated MS programs have the same requirements?
Sounds like earning the degree now may shorten the program's duration.
Sounds like earning the degree now may shorten the program's duration.
An MSc and a Masters of CS are slightly different. Basically a Masters of CS is a masters lite. 2/3 the coursework with no thesis. Its a whole different bag.
I'm doing a masters in applied math, and not having to do a thesis would sorta ruin the whole super independent part of it. I'm looking forward to doing cool research that I want to do. It will probably suck towards the end when I'm finishing the details of my thesis, but right now its exciting to dream of things to research.
I'm doing a masters in applied math, and not having to do a thesis would sorta ruin the whole super independent part of it. I'm looking forward to doing cool research that I want to do. It will probably suck towards the end when I'm finishing the details of my thesis, but right now its exciting to dream of things to research.
I'd advise against getting a master's degree for someone who already has an impressive resume and knows what they want to do next.
I dropped out of my master's program after getting accepted into YC. It was a no brainer; I flew back to Boston and met with my adviser the same day to tell him I was dropping out. I had already published with him so we were good friends.
With few exceptions, people in the tech industry rarely care about graduate degrees.
Beware of opportunity cost when reading posts saying it's only one year, or you can make $x more / year with a master's degree. It sounds like you're going to learn much more in the first year of your venture than you would in school.
I dropped out of my master's program after getting accepted into YC. It was a no brainer; I flew back to Boston and met with my adviser the same day to tell him I was dropping out. I had already published with him so we were good friends.
With few exceptions, people in the tech industry rarely care about graduate degrees.
Beware of opportunity cost when reading posts saying it's only one year, or you can make $x more / year with a master's degree. It sounds like you're going to learn much more in the first year of your venture than you would in school.
The opportunity to bang it out in one year is something that shouldn't be passed up lightly. Going back after being out for a while is hard.
I'm getting my masters now (graduated undergrad in 2003). It is difficult, but then I'm working and going to school.
The one thing going for taking time off and going back is that you are amazingly focused because you know why you are there, but then if you are graduating from Stanford and considering a MS, then I don't think that is really a problem for you.
I don't think the MS for you would be as much about career options as it would be being able to get even more in depth with subjects in a way that you really don't get much opportunity to do later in life. At least for me it became become fluent enough in subject n+1 to do task x+1. The queue only gets longer and I never have managed to go back to any one thing that has interested me.
I'm getting my masters now (graduated undergrad in 2003). It is difficult, but then I'm working and going to school.
The one thing going for taking time off and going back is that you are amazingly focused because you know why you are there, but then if you are graduating from Stanford and considering a MS, then I don't think that is really a problem for you.
I don't think the MS for you would be as much about career options as it would be being able to get even more in depth with subjects in a way that you really don't get much opportunity to do later in life. At least for me it became become fluent enough in subject n+1 to do task x+1. The queue only gets longer and I never have managed to go back to any one thing that has interested me.
The one thing going for taking time off and going back is that you are amazingly focused because you know why you are there, but then if you are graduating from Stanford and considering a MS, then I don't think that is really a problem for you.
The OP is the author of a book called "How to Succeed As A Lazy Student" :)
The OP is the author of a book called "How to Succeed As A Lazy Student" :)
Besides the monetary cost, you'd be investing a year of your life. When faced with a similar situation, I went for it not so much because of the future earnings potential but because I thought it would be a valuable life experience (which it was, and I'm happy I did it).
If you see it purely as an investment, you have to figure out what else you could be doing in the meantime that would give you the same return, both financially and emotionally.
If you see it purely as an investment, you have to figure out what else you could be doing in the meantime that would give you the same return, both financially and emotionally.
As a freelancer you will rarely (if ever) be asked about your educational experience. If you were for some reason, then a bachelor's degree would probably suffice. If you are good at what you do, then you will have high enough demand for your work that you can pick the work you do. If a potential client makes unreasonable demands, then you simply go with with next client in line.
The world moves fast. If you have an idea about a certain niche for enterprise software then right now is probably better than a year from now. The earlier you can break into a market the better.
A degree is more important for working for others. You need that degree to get past the HR gatekeeper. In the freelance world, things are different. I don't even have an undergrad degree and I have had no shortage of freelance work.
Once you go freelance, you will have a hard time convincing yourself to go back to working for someone else. Leave the grad degrees to the academics. For hackers, grad degrees take us out of the real world for too long.
The world moves fast. If you have an idea about a certain niche for enterprise software then right now is probably better than a year from now. The earlier you can break into a market the better.
A degree is more important for working for others. You need that degree to get past the HR gatekeeper. In the freelance world, things are different. I don't even have an undergrad degree and I have had no shortage of freelance work.
Once you go freelance, you will have a hard time convincing yourself to go back to working for someone else. Leave the grad degrees to the academics. For hackers, grad degrees take us out of the real world for too long.
A masters degree is always good when you are selling yourself to other people. If it only takes you one more year, I would simply do it.
If you'd want to eventually work abroad, I'd go for it. I don't know about Italy, but many countries have points-based immigration systems and having a master's degree from Stanford gives you a significant amount of extra points.
Posts like this make me wish I had worked harder in school. Which is why I'm back and getting my MS -- doing things right this time. grin
In your case, you need to ask yourself if another year in school is what you want or need; nobody here can answer that for you. A Master's will open new doors, but at the opportunity cost of taking time away from other projects that may be more beneficial.
In your case, you need to ask yourself if another year in school is what you want or need; nobody here can answer that for you. A Master's will open new doors, but at the opportunity cost of taking time away from other projects that may be more beneficial.
What doors would those be?
IMHO the purpose of MS should not be to find a better job or to get a raise. You have already proven that you are an Entrepreneur therefore it would not be too difficult for you to start where you left off after a year. You can never go wrong with education and investing a year of your time will only make you a better decision maker.
It sounds to me that you are already 1 (perhaps 3) steps ahead of the game. A graduate degree from Stanford will always "look good" on the resume, but I wonder what it will do toward further your freelancing goal. One thing to keep in mind, and all caveats apply, but in my experience I have found that many organizations/clients view higher level degrees as a "sign" (valid or not matters little IMO) that you are prime leadership material. This may be beneficial in winning contracts. At the same time it may make you appear over-qualified (less likely I would say). It's a delicate balance.
Masters coursework isn't worth it across the board. Some areas are too theoretical for what Masters students will want to do.
I got a more directed MS in Robotics, and am very glad I did. I think it helps to have a niche. You can do the exact same work I did for my robotics degree in a general CS degree - so my advice is to pick an area of focus, and work on building something interesting.
You shouldn't work on many projects. Take the opportunity to build up a single real system for 2 years.
I got a more directed MS in Robotics, and am very glad I did. I think it helps to have a niche. You can do the exact same work I did for my robotics degree in a general CS degree - so my advice is to pick an area of focus, and work on building something interesting.
You shouldn't work on many projects. Take the opportunity to build up a single real system for 2 years.
If your goal is to developer enterprise software, and you already have your first project (i.e. this summer in Italy), what do you need the Masters degree for?
I'm not sure about what a masters will do for your prospects, but I'm getting one and I LOVE it. So I say do it if you think you'll enjoy it.
>My future goal is to start a freelancing company to develop enterprise software
Based on some interviewing I've done in a corporate setting, Masters is often looked at as a trade off for lack of work experience. In your case it doesn't seem like that would be an issue.
Whether or not you have a Ph.D. will matter more for your career long term, than whether you have a BS/MS.
Based on some interviewing I've done in a corporate setting, Masters is often looked at as a trade off for lack of work experience. In your case it doesn't seem like that would be an issue.
Whether or not you have a Ph.D. will matter more for your career long term, than whether you have a BS/MS.
If you are starting a company why not pursue an MBA, sounds like you wont get much more out of the mscs degree.
That's quite pedestrian and bottom-line oriented approach to life. Good luck crossing the finish line.
I'm currently an undergrad student at Stanford University, and I'm wondering if I should pursue a 1 years masters program to get a Masters in CS. Here's the lowdown: I've done a lot of programming before---in fact, I've written four books on programming (two were international bestsellers), sold a facebook application to Kaplan Inc, and have developed for some hot start ups in Silicon Valley. I'm studying abroad, and I was planning to stay abroad until next April, but if I want to pursue the masters program I will need to come home to start working on it.
My future goal is to start a freelancing company to develop enterprise software--my first project is this summer in Italy. So, my question is, based on the cost ($45,000 for a year--after TAing, it should be closer to $15,000) is it worth it to pursue a masters degree at Stanford? Will a master's open up any doors that wouldn't be open for a Stanford grad with a good resume?
Thanks!
-Maneesh Sethi