Ask HN: Do startups need analysts? What can this 26-year-old semi-generalist do?
35 comments
At a start-up there are at most only two roles:
Can you build it? Or can you sell it?
In tech start-ups, building it means coding, and that might be only role early on.
"Selling it" is broader than pure sales (E.g. Selling it to investors, to non-paying users, to bloggers, etc.), but you need a track record in selling (I.e. Not "analysis" or "marketing").
There's a reason why there is a programming bias: programming is 90% of the work at an early stage consumer web company. So get back to coding, or try something other than start-ups, because there is no job for an 'analyst' at a start-up (or a community manager, or a head of product, or a COO, or any other job that isn't building or selling).
Can you build it? Or can you sell it?
In tech start-ups, building it means coding, and that might be only role early on.
"Selling it" is broader than pure sales (E.g. Selling it to investors, to non-paying users, to bloggers, etc.), but you need a track record in selling (I.e. Not "analysis" or "marketing").
There's a reason why there is a programming bias: programming is 90% of the work at an early stage consumer web company. So get back to coding, or try something other than start-ups, because there is no job for an 'analyst' at a start-up (or a community manager, or a head of product, or a COO, or any other job that isn't building or selling).
Well, sales isn't a million miles away from some of my responsibilities now. Given that I couldn't build any of my ideas within even a half-decent time-frame I guess I'll need to co-found with a decent coder if I'm looking to start on my own.
For other stages I guess I'll need to expand on any sales-type work I do now while concentrating on my more general business skills.
For other stages I guess I'll need to expand on any sales-type work I do now while concentrating on my more general business skills.
Actually, to be blunt, if it's not sales it might as well be a million miles away.
Startups need people who build, who create, who do. Things like "strategy", setting up deals, introductions, "almost sales", etc. are, by themselves, worthless at a young company.
My advice to you would be this:
Learn to code, or, don't do a tech start-up.
I think it's a little bizarre that people without technical skills (or startup skills) feel compelled or even entitled to start a tech company. These are specific, hard skills (not unlike law or medicine), and if you don't have them you need to develop them or find another line of work.
You could still start a "technology-enabled" company, like HuffPo (a media company), or Gilte (a fashion retail company), but you should probably have specific domain expertise in the non-tech vertical that you want to work with.
If you want to "start the next Facebook", though, (I.e. build a scalable, virtual product) then I have news for you: if you can't code it, you can't do it.
Startups need people who build, who create, who do. Things like "strategy", setting up deals, introductions, "almost sales", etc. are, by themselves, worthless at a young company.
My advice to you would be this:
Learn to code, or, don't do a tech start-up.
I think it's a little bizarre that people without technical skills (or startup skills) feel compelled or even entitled to start a tech company. These are specific, hard skills (not unlike law or medicine), and if you don't have them you need to develop them or find another line of work.
You could still start a "technology-enabled" company, like HuffPo (a media company), or Gilte (a fashion retail company), but you should probably have specific domain expertise in the non-tech vertical that you want to work with.
If you want to "start the next Facebook", though, (I.e. build a scalable, virtual product) then I have news for you: if you can't code it, you can't do it.
"I think it's a little bizarre that people without technical skills (or startup skills) feel compelled or even entitled to start a tech company."
Don't worry, I have no such ideas of grandeur, only ambition. Although the lack of startup skills shouldn't be a barrier to starting a startup, right? After all, isn't that the best way to get the skills?
As for technical skills and tech startups: I agree, and this isn't strictly what I'm looking for, anyway. I have enough tech skills to hire a good programmer and to do every-day coding work after the initial core of a system is completed (by someone with better skills than me). Luckily, knowing this is an advantage: it puts me a step ahead of the people in my shoes who don't realise this.
That's great advice in terms of tech startups vs. tech-enabled startups. Thanks for that.
I'd be interested in your thoughts on roles such as 'advisor'? A friend of mine started a small tech company a few years ago and asked me for some advice. Having a good understanding in the theory (that's the CS degree doing its job) I could tell him what was needed and some possible issues... but I couldn't do it. That was enjoyable and worthwhile for all involved. I've no idea how to evolve that, though.
Don't worry, I have no such ideas of grandeur, only ambition. Although the lack of startup skills shouldn't be a barrier to starting a startup, right? After all, isn't that the best way to get the skills?
As for technical skills and tech startups: I agree, and this isn't strictly what I'm looking for, anyway. I have enough tech skills to hire a good programmer and to do every-day coding work after the initial core of a system is completed (by someone with better skills than me). Luckily, knowing this is an advantage: it puts me a step ahead of the people in my shoes who don't realise this.
That's great advice in terms of tech startups vs. tech-enabled startups. Thanks for that.
I'd be interested in your thoughts on roles such as 'advisor'? A friend of mine started a small tech company a few years ago and asked me for some advice. Having a good understanding in the theory (that's the CS degree doing its job) I could tell him what was needed and some possible issues... but I couldn't do it. That was enjoyable and worthwhile for all involved. I've no idea how to evolve that, though.
I once had a short conversation with Max Levchin (of PayPal fame) and the one thing he said that stuck in my mind -besides all the drivel about how Slide was going to change the world- was that 10% of a start-up's workforce should be metrics people, obsessed with measuring the company performance i.e. if you have a ten person start-up, at least one should should be an analyst, otherwise he said, the company is essentially flying blind.
From my own experience, if you can not only master the technical side of working with metrics, but be the kind of guy who can actually ask intelligent, relevant questions and structure them in a way that gets meaningful answers from raw data, then you are worth your weight in gold to any start-up.
From my own experience, if you can not only master the technical side of working with metrics, but be the kind of guy who can actually ask intelligent, relevant questions and structure them in a way that gets meaningful answers from raw data, then you are worth your weight in gold to any start-up.
I'd just like to leave a comment here, but I wonder if you misunderstood him. It seems more practical to me that every employee in a startup should dedicate time to metrics, and probably more than 10%. For instance, at the last startup I worked for, the CEO put together metrics useful for VC conversations/sales metrics etc. The CTO put together metrics on bug fix flow/hardware throughput etc, the VP of CS put together metrics on turnaround time on customer issues etc. Our architect kept metrics on time based data throughput.
I think it's a poor use of recources to dedicate one person to do all of that. The people steering the company at that stage should have a total hands on feel for the data and a level of indirection seems unnecessary.
I'd like to hear back from founders on this. Were you tracking metrics yourself? Do you think you were more or less effective that way?
I think it's a poor use of recources to dedicate one person to do all of that. The people steering the company at that stage should have a total hands on feel for the data and a level of indirection seems unnecessary.
I'd like to hear back from founders on this. Were you tracking metrics yourself? Do you think you were more or less effective that way?
To answer the title directly, found a company :)
With a background in CS you have the functional hacker skills needed to create a first version of something, but you say your energy lies in marketing skills, so you know what 'something' to build.
I see this as one of the most powerful combinations seen in founders: the skills to get things done, and the soul to see the big picture of what problems people need solving.
On the flip side, the problem you have joining in with another startup is that the founders are often great generalists who need specialist help. Therefore a business/systems analyst is not an obvious fit with a startup, where the hacker-founders shoot first and measure later... at least until they've proven there is something there and they can mature their processes and goals.
With a background in CS you have the functional hacker skills needed to create a first version of something, but you say your energy lies in marketing skills, so you know what 'something' to build.
I see this as one of the most powerful combinations seen in founders: the skills to get things done, and the soul to see the big picture of what problems people need solving.
On the flip side, the problem you have joining in with another startup is that the founders are often great generalists who need specialist help. Therefore a business/systems analyst is not an obvious fit with a startup, where the hacker-founders shoot first and measure later... at least until they've proven there is something there and they can mature their processes and goals.
That said, one huge area of interest would be to (re)specialize in "user experience measuring" to drive product iterations (similar to the hugely successful Sean Ellis). All startups are concerned with understanding their customers - and most suck at it - which would make such a role pivotal in startup success.
I see two directions emerge from this, if I want to move more toward the startup world:
- Found: Expand on one of the ideas I have. Right now.
- Early-stage help: Continue on my current path, although look toward a short-term goal of project management or the like. This is a more marketable skill in early-stage startups than analysis.
- Found: Expand on one of the ideas I have. Right now.
- Early-stage help: Continue on my current path, although look toward a short-term goal of project management or the like. This is a more marketable skill in early-stage startups than analysis.
What is a systems analyst? I've never known what that title meant. What do you do all day? This is an honest question. Sometimes I wish I could move back to the Midwest, but there are few (no) job listings for "hackers" in my home city. There are many for "systems analyst."
From my experience in the field, an analyst's responsibilities range considerably between companies (as does the title: information/business/systems analyst).
My work is an almost perfect mix between what a business analyst and a systems analyst does, as defined in Wikipedia [1,2].
I spend 50% of my time speaking to people, 50% documenting and modelling requirements and systems. The people I speak to are either internal business strategists or external clients (large corporations). In my discussions with them I need to figure out their needs for new or existing systems and how this will be implemented.
To some this may sound boring, but I find it fascinating: the difficulty and enjoyment of the job increases exponentially with the complexity of the systems involved (perfect when you're in finance).
Anything else, just ask.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_analyst [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_analyst
My work is an almost perfect mix between what a business analyst and a systems analyst does, as defined in Wikipedia [1,2].
I spend 50% of my time speaking to people, 50% documenting and modelling requirements and systems. The people I speak to are either internal business strategists or external clients (large corporations). In my discussions with them I need to figure out their needs for new or existing systems and how this will be implemented.
To some this may sound boring, but I find it fascinating: the difficulty and enjoyment of the job increases exponentially with the complexity of the systems involved (perfect when you're in finance).
Anything else, just ask.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_analyst [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_analyst
I'm curious also.
I am a corporate generalist who is transitioning to software sales with no real experience in the field. The only thing I really understand is what our clients want because I was one of them. Don't categorize yourself. If you are passionate about a startup, it will show, and you can sell it. I would take the advice of noahc and start pitching your idea to companies who would want it, ask how much they would be willing to pay for it and hold them to it. "Bootstrapping your business" is a good book and describes how Greg Gianforte sold a product before he had one.
"Don't categorize yourself." Good point. I should let others do that, if they so desire.
I am passionate about it and when the need arises I am able to get this across. I'll take your advice (and noahc's) and pitch what I can do, if only to get some feedback to iteratively improve myself and my skills for the future. Being a corporate generalist is an asset in some respects as there are things that I'm good at that are in demand. I need to work on identifying this and selling it, I guess.
'Bootstrapping Your Business', ordered.
I am passionate about it and when the need arises I am able to get this across. I'll take your advice (and noahc's) and pitch what I can do, if only to get some feedback to iteratively improve myself and my skills for the future. Being a corporate generalist is an asset in some respects as there are things that I'm good at that are in demand. I need to work on identifying this and selling it, I guess.
'Bootstrapping Your Business', ordered.
Consider getting in touch with a venture capital firm that specializes in technology startups. Often, it doesn't make sense for each company to have a full-time analyst. Instead, it makes a lot of sense for the VC firm to have a handful of analysts that work part-time for a number of the portfolio companies.
I've worked at a couple VC-funded startups where the VCs had us hire one of their analysts part-time. The only catch is that you must prove yourself to the VC firm first, which usually requires a strong track record and good networking skills.
I've worked at a couple VC-funded startups where the VCs had us hire one of their analysts part-time. The only catch is that you must prove yourself to the VC firm first, which usually requires a strong track record and good networking skills.
You should have no problem finding a job, but you need to decide where you want to be. Something lead you down the path that planted you in a banking environment in the first place. The issue might be that you don't like working in an environment like that as a programmer or that you like the security of working for an environment like that. If that is you then own it. If not then there is life after the 9-5 corporate culture for you. For starters, you are a technical person who wants to do marketing, design and psychology. If that is what you want to do then you have a few really good options. You can work as a product manager (though this is something that you may have to get more experience to do well), as a designer or user interface developer (there is a line somewhere between programmer and user experience architect that many people find to be comfortable), or as a technical marketing person. The technical marketing role might be one of the most rewarding to you based on your experience to date. You have to be able to work with lots of data and be very technical, but you still have to get into the strategy and execution. There is a lot to learn and do there. Whatever you do - good luck. If you would like to chat about this offline I'm @jobmatchbox - send me a note and we can go from there. I know a few people who might be interested in talking about their experiences with you.
The reason why advice here is almost exclusively aimed at programmers is because HN is bias towards startups that make stuff that are byproducts of the software discipline.
Startups that focus on Web/saas/cloud are getting a lot of attention lately but by no means is this your only path. Maybe consider a career arch that will value what you would like to focus your energy (research, writing, & marketing)?
For example, I've notice a growing trend of upstart industry analysis boutique shops that are taking market share from the Gartner/forrester/Juniper research mafia. Some examples are redmonk (developers) and altimetergroup (social media). The high value workers of these companies are the analysts (that like tech) and not the hackers.
Bottom line is don't limit build/succeed of a startup to just being a hacker.
Startups that focus on Web/saas/cloud are getting a lot of attention lately but by no means is this your only path. Maybe consider a career arch that will value what you would like to focus your energy (research, writing, & marketing)?
For example, I've notice a growing trend of upstart industry analysis boutique shops that are taking market share from the Gartner/forrester/Juniper research mafia. Some examples are redmonk (developers) and altimetergroup (social media). The high value workers of these companies are the analysts (that like tech) and not the hackers.
Bottom line is don't limit build/succeed of a startup to just being a hacker.
I'm now a business/systems analyst...
I hate to break the news to you, but you describe yourself with a job title that's pretty much exclusive to the enterprise world. For the most part, start-ups don't really have a place for "business/system analysts". Let me explain...
School of Thought A: Call it SDLC (Systems Development Life Cycle), the project approach, or the waterfall approach goes something like this: Define a need, conduct analysis to answer the question "What", conduct design to answer the question "How", program, test, program, test, compare to the Functional Specs from the Analysis Phase, conduct User Acceptance Testing, promote, deploy, repeat anything as required. The more rigorous the documentation and project management, the better.
School of Thought B: Build something ASAP. Get it out there ASAP. Get feedback ASAP. Iterate indefinitely.
For the most part (I'm sure there are many counter-examples), enterprises employ School of Thought A and Start-Ups employ School of Thought B. There simply isn't a need for systems analysis in School of Thought B. By the time you're done analyzing, someone else is servicing the customers you wanted.
My advice: Combine a love for building stuff with your love of systems analysis. They go perfectly together. In fact, we now have a name for that: "programmer/analyst".
The systems analyst who can code is a better systems analyst because he can test/evaluate his ideas.
The programmer who can conduct analysis is a better programmer because he knows what to work on.
This may not be what you wanted to hear, but you're in a perfect position to do both, so do it.
I hate to break the news to you, but you describe yourself with a job title that's pretty much exclusive to the enterprise world. For the most part, start-ups don't really have a place for "business/system analysts". Let me explain...
School of Thought A: Call it SDLC (Systems Development Life Cycle), the project approach, or the waterfall approach goes something like this: Define a need, conduct analysis to answer the question "What", conduct design to answer the question "How", program, test, program, test, compare to the Functional Specs from the Analysis Phase, conduct User Acceptance Testing, promote, deploy, repeat anything as required. The more rigorous the documentation and project management, the better.
School of Thought B: Build something ASAP. Get it out there ASAP. Get feedback ASAP. Iterate indefinitely.
For the most part (I'm sure there are many counter-examples), enterprises employ School of Thought A and Start-Ups employ School of Thought B. There simply isn't a need for systems analysis in School of Thought B. By the time you're done analyzing, someone else is servicing the customers you wanted.
My advice: Combine a love for building stuff with your love of systems analysis. They go perfectly together. In fact, we now have a name for that: "programmer/analyst".
The systems analyst who can code is a better systems analyst because he can test/evaluate his ideas.
The programmer who can conduct analysis is a better programmer because he knows what to work on.
This may not be what you wanted to hear, but you're in a perfect position to do both, so do it.
This is exactly as I suspected, so thank you for confirming this.
"The systems analyst who can code is a better systems analyst because he can test/evaluate his ideas." This is something I have found from my personal experience and I'm glad I had that background. It truly has helped. Anyone reading this can count this as solid advice.
Moving into programmer/analyst territory is something I've considered only briefly and I'll look at it in greater detail. By brushing up on my dormant programming skills I guess the worst that'll happen is I'll become better at my current job. Never a bad thing.
"The systems analyst who can code is a better systems analyst because he can test/evaluate his ideas." This is something I have found from my personal experience and I'm glad I had that background. It truly has helped. Anyone reading this can count this as solid advice.
Moving into programmer/analyst territory is something I've considered only briefly and I'll look at it in greater detail. By brushing up on my dormant programming skills I guess the worst that'll happen is I'll become better at my current job. Never a bad thing.
I'm a programmer/analyst at a startup. It is a fun job. I'm always jumping between tasks and have a million things going on all at once. For me, the job is ~70% programming, ~25% analysis, ~5% other. That will certainly very depending on the company and responsibilities, but thats probably a good model of the work from what I've seen. If thats your cup of tea (sure is mine) then I would say this would be a great way to go. There are downfalls though; if you go the startup route that is. More then likely you will be making less then corporate and the hours may be more erratic to, but that depends on corporate culture. I would say give it a shot if your curious.
How would suggest a programmer improve his analysis skills?
There's always "old faithful":
http://www.amazon.com/Structured-Analysis-System-Specificati...
It's expensive and dated, but it covers the fundamentals as well as anything else. A programmer who has never conducted systems analysis ought to absorb this stuff like a sponge.
I followed these concepts for years in enterprises where they served me very well. But now I'm a bigger proponent of iterative prototyping, so I'm not sure how applicable they are. Then again, nothing wrong with a little fundamentals.
http://www.amazon.com/Structured-Analysis-System-Specificati...
It's expensive and dated, but it covers the fundamentals as well as anything else. A programmer who has never conducted systems analysis ought to absorb this stuff like a sponge.
I followed these concepts for years in enterprises where they served me very well. But now I'm a bigger proponent of iterative prototyping, so I'm not sure how applicable they are. Then again, nothing wrong with a little fundamentals.
If I were you I'd contact a lot of the smaller startups you hear about on here and see if they need someone to take care of their Google Analytics, especially integrating Facebook Insights data, conversion analysis/funnel, short link campaigns (inbound from Twitter) etc. Propose A/B testing scenarios and work with their engineers to make it happen.
Produce real-world reports and suggest next steps. Be sure to "own" the data and branding by producing your own Excel spreadsheets that contain an amalgamation of all the different data sources, and understand their business enough to personalize it to their industry, i.e., ecommerce revenue vs. freemium signups lost to competitors.
Most importantly: be sure to budget your time properly so you can bill accurately.
Produce real-world reports and suggest next steps. Be sure to "own" the data and branding by producing your own Excel spreadsheets that contain an amalgamation of all the different data sources, and understand their business enough to personalize it to their industry, i.e., ecommerce revenue vs. freemium signups lost to competitors.
Most importantly: be sure to budget your time properly so you can bill accurately.
Analysis is a hot field, so although most startups don't need a full-fledged Business Analyst your knowledge should enable you to spot an opportunity in this sector and to use your knowledge to create something to make analysis for companies easier - or for other analysts. If you are such a fine one and your fellow analysts are not, what can you do, to make them better at their job?
You still need a programmer if you want to create some software, but still you'd have quite a place in a startup as the entrepreneur developing the idea and the business.
You still need a programmer if you want to create some software, but still you'd have quite a place in a startup as the entrepreneur developing the idea and the business.
This is something I'm currently looking into. I have actually spotted a market for something that will make a small aspect of analysis easier. In discussions with analysts at other big companies I notice that they also struggle with the same issues.
There is a lot of competition in the area, but the products are all from bulky enterprise applications that are not quite suitable to the task.
Your comment has made me think that I should flesh this idea out a bit more and hire a decent programmer in the early days to lay some decent foundations to this idea.
There is a lot of competition in the area, but the products are all from bulky enterprise applications that are not quite suitable to the task.
Your comment has made me think that I should flesh this idea out a bit more and hire a decent programmer in the early days to lay some decent foundations to this idea.
I work for a startup that sells software to big banks and my role is somewhere in the middle of dev and analysis. Depending on the phase of the project, I do everything from development to analysis to project management.
We work with big banks but are a small company and so I get to experience both worlds, which is great for me because I haven't figured out which one I hate more :-)
We have offices in NYC and South Jersey and are hiring, so if you're looking to make a change, shoot me an email and I can give you more background on the company.
We work with big banks but are a small company and so I get to experience both worlds, which is great for me because I haven't figured out which one I hate more :-)
We have offices in NYC and South Jersey and are hiring, so if you're looking to make a change, shoot me an email and I can give you more background on the company.
That definitely sounds like a direction I would be interested in pursuing: I do miss programming (it's now a free-time hobby) and PM work is something I'm intrigued enough with to try for a while.
While I'm not looking for a change right now, I'll be in contact: this route sounds promising.
While I'm not looking for a change right now, I'll be in contact: this route sounds promising.
Here's an idea - you could do consulting work and focus on startups. Metrics are becoming increasingly notable as an important part of running a startup. I imagine that your skills are useful to some folks who are on the fence or don't have the budget to hire fulltime staff for analytics. The experience you would gain from this would probably translate into the kind of job you want pretty quickly
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There are roles at companies for these skill but they are not a newly founded startup. Once the company has reached about 30 people there will be a need for more generalized skills typically in the business/sales side of the company as sales engineers/consultants.
The two main jobs that we have or had open were QA Lead and Game Designer. Both jobs did not require CS degrees and paid decently. There are a lot of jobs like these out there, you just have to the look for the medium size startups.
You could become a PM @ Zynga.
You haven't talked about anything you've done to act on this desire.
Have you made e-mail pitches to 10 - 15 people/companies offering your services?
What type of reception or feedback did you get from that?
Have you made e-mail pitches to 10 - 15 people/companies offering your services?
What type of reception or feedback did you get from that?
drop me a line. email in profile
Depending on what you mean by analysis, plenty of startups have them, including two I've worked for. No names here because apparently every word I say represents all employers, past, present, and future : rolleyes :
Nonetheless, in slightly larger -- 30-40+ people -- startups, there is often a need for someone who is good with sql or whatever datastore you have, who can make reports. That sounds a little bland, but it can range from asking and answering questions like how effective is our SEO or SEM, what advertising is giving us the best response, predicting churn rates for customers, etc. Good luck.
If you want to talk to the analyst at my current employer, hit me up over email. She's not a personal friend, though, so I can't promise anything but an intro.
Nonetheless, in slightly larger -- 30-40+ people -- startups, there is often a need for someone who is good with sql or whatever datastore you have, who can make reports. That sounds a little bland, but it can range from asking and answering questions like how effective is our SEO or SEM, what advertising is giving us the best response, predicting churn rates for customers, etc. Good luck.
If you want to talk to the analyst at my current employer, hit me up over email. She's not a personal friend, though, so I can't promise anything but an intro.
A quick profile: 26-year-old CS graduate. Two jobs to-date: Five years in a medium-sized specialist financial organisation and just starting my second job in one of the largest banks in the world. I started my career as a developer before realising that it was not where my expertise lies. I'm now a business/systems analyst… and a damn good one, even if I do say so myself.
However, I prefer to think of myself as a generalist: I love marketing, design, psychology, and hundreds of other subjects. I read and write voraciously on these topics in my free time. I can feel the $75,000 a year sucking away slowly at my soul and have always loved the startup scene. It's always been a long-term goal, but for the last couple of years I've been eager yet unsure how to proceed for a relatively simple reason:
I read advice to those wanting to go into the startup world here often. However it is almost exclusively aimed at programmers. Nobody seems to discuss analysis. Is this a field that only small-to-large (non-lean) companies employ? Are we needed in startups?
For reference, I've found these slightly helpful but they still show a programming bias: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1447747 (and the comment http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1448145) and http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1438489