Velodyne’s VLS-128 offers more resolution, smaller package, lower price(spar3d.com)
spar3d.com
Velodyne’s VLS-128 offers more resolution, smaller package, lower price
https://www.spar3d.com/news/lidar/velodynes-vls-128-offers-resolution-smaller-package-lower-price/
3 comments
I do not think you would be able to get to their MOQ. This is not a consumer device shipped one piece at the time. Your best bet would be to have a credible story about your future needs because you are in the process of developing a self driving car or are part of a university group doing research and asking for a sample. Though at a guess the ones they will make in the near future will all be earmarked for some particular recipient.
Good luck with that. I am a university student and they told our group that the puck was the cheapest model and would not give us prices on the other ones.
Sales departments everywhere will fight tooth and nail to defend their disproportional power over not only volume but also margin. Who would they be, if they would only be offering subtle personal favors for orders, and never receive any for favorable conditions? It's a matter of balance!
Sorry for my sarcasm, I do understand that outside of consumer goods and commodities, price determination is basically unsolved. But I stand to my point: any possible solution that undermines the grandeur of sales departments will be met with hostility.
Sorry for my sarcasm, I do understand that outside of consumer goods and commodities, price determination is basically unsolved. But I stand to my point: any possible solution that undermines the grandeur of sales departments will be met with hostility.
Not just sales departments, purchasing departments too. If engineers could just click a button and order the parts they needed at a known price, how would purcahsers collect those perks that the sales people have to offer?
The Velodyne VLP-32A Ultra Puck was announced in April 2016 [0] and is only starting to appear on GM Cruise Automation cars since a few weeks ago. There's still no way for the vast majority of people to buy it yet. Likewise, for the VLS-128, I expect quite some time from announcement until the product starts shipping at scale.
[0] http://velodynelidar.com/docs/news/Velodyne%20LiDAR%20Announ...
[0] http://velodynelidar.com/docs/news/Velodyne%20LiDAR%20Announ...
With non-consumer electronics companies, good luck. Usually you have to go through a distributor.
Also I don't think the new VLS-128 is shipping to most normal people yet - it's not on their website and the article mentions that it's a preview. Maybe the title is a bit misleading.
Also I don't think the new VLS-128 is shipping to most normal people yet - it's not on their website and the article mentions that it's a preview. Maybe the title is a bit misleading.
This isn't a consumer device.
So? Seriously, why does the intended application (or applicator) mean something can't have a recommended price?
Withholding pricing and not making yourself available to industrial retailers and wholesalers (RS, CPC, etc), you shut the door to a market that Alibaba is more than happy to service.
Not to mention that there are plenty of engineers outside the automotive industry that would consider integrating these and need samples. Unit prices are essential to know whether or not they're worth even considering.
There have been comments about the price-to-support which is [understandably] higher in the direct sales "prosumer" market. Just put the price up on singles to cover that cost. It's not rocket science.
Withholding pricing and not making yourself available to industrial retailers and wholesalers (RS, CPC, etc), you shut the door to a market that Alibaba is more than happy to service.
Not to mention that there are plenty of engineers outside the automotive industry that would consider integrating these and need samples. Unit prices are essential to know whether or not they're worth even considering.
There have been comments about the price-to-support which is [understandably] higher in the direct sales "prosumer" market. Just put the price up on singles to cover that cost. It's not rocket science.
Sure... but if I've got the money and really like building robots (pretend I'm on the Megabots team or something) why not enable me to buy 1-2 of them? Money is money right?
I used to sell something kind of similar...high cost, niche electronics. We didn't make it easier for hobbyists because they would often want to return the item after playing around. Then we couldn't sell it as a new item. The depreciation hit was significant.
The hobbyists were also a drain on support time, disproportionate to other customers.
Once the market settled, and the devices were closer to commodity prices, and our knowledge base was in better shape, we opened back up to them.
The hobbyists were also a drain on support time, disproportionate to other customers.
Once the market settled, and the devices were closer to commodity prices, and our knowledge base was in better shape, we opened back up to them.
Agreed. Right now there's basically an arms race going on in this field.
> they would often want to return the item after playing around
Then don't have a return policy.
> The hobbyists were also a drain on support time
Make them pay for support at a premium.
Then don't have a return policy.
> The hobbyists were also a drain on support time
Make them pay for support at a premium.
A company practicing your doctrine will get slammed for being user-hostile by everyone on hn and reddit. Probably sued in some countries, too.
>Then don't have a return policy.
You probably haven't encountered chargebacks as a merchant. "All sales final" only works for cash businesses.
"Not as described" covers a lot of ground for hobbyists struggling to deal with a complex electronics product.
You probably haven't encountered chargebacks as a merchant. "All sales final" only works for cash businesses.
"Not as described" covers a lot of ground for hobbyists struggling to deal with a complex electronics product.
Money is money but you are competing against players who will order hundreds or thousands of units. You are not worth their time for a couple thousands of dollars
Maybe you could buy them through a reseller or integrator. I work for a startup, we've ordered multiple of their devices, their lead time is 6-8 months for the older models. I think these new models are probably only for the big players in the first year or two who have orders in the millions of dollars scale.
This is pretty common for premium HW manufacturers. I've worked for a camera company who would not take orders that were not at least on the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Both logistics and sales network is very expensive.
Maybe you could buy them through a reseller or integrator. I work for a startup, we've ordered multiple of their devices, their lead time is 6-8 months for the older models. I think these new models are probably only for the big players in the first year or two who have orders in the millions of dollars scale.
This is pretty common for premium HW manufacturers. I've worked for a camera company who would not take orders that were not at least on the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Both logistics and sales network is very expensive.
If you're doing that, your best bet is to talk to somebody like AutonomouStuff:
https://autonomoustuff.com/
They have a relationship with all the vendors, and can help figure out which sensor and vendor to use.
If you really really want a Velodyne unit, you might be able to get a loaner of the cheaper ones by calling them and talking to somebody, not so sure about the VLP-64 or new 128 as those go for north of $50-70k.
The cheapest lidar Velodyne makes goes for close to $10k, so you're still probably not going to be able click to buy.
https://autonomoustuff.com/
They have a relationship with all the vendors, and can help figure out which sensor and vendor to use.
If you really really want a Velodyne unit, you might be able to get a loaner of the cheaper ones by calling them and talking to somebody, not so sure about the VLP-64 or new 128 as those go for north of $50-70k.
The cheapest lidar Velodyne makes goes for close to $10k, so you're still probably not going to be able click to buy.
And this space REALLY needs competition. I've found pricing elsewhere on a FEW of the items AS carries, and their markup is around 400%. Not a typo.
Small orders are much more expensive to deal with. Higher shipping and handling costs, extra customer support load, etc. Why bother selling a few hundred or thousand devices with all that overhead when you can focus on selling large volume orders? Their supply might also be constrained, and they want to focus on shipping the large orders first so they can cash their checks.
If you're not planning to order a few hundred thousand after the first 2, I wouldn't give you the time of day either.
This is intended to replace the HDL-64E, and the biggest fleet using them is Uber, and they've got ~200 test vehicles. It will be a while before any one outfit is placing orders in the 1000s.
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> Sure... but if I've got the money
You don't if you can't buy 2000+ per year.
You don't if you can't buy 2000+ per year.
Sure, but it is an automotive part apparently, so at some point they're going to be shipping individual units out basically as soon as any OEM integrates it.
What is the new price? What was the previous model price? How many of these does one need in a self-driving car?
The previous HDL-64E model was about $75k when it was first released; I don't know if there have been significant price drops since then.
I'm guessing the steep price was mostly caused by the need to recoup R&D from a small volume of sales, rather than the cost of actually manufacturing the sensors.
I'm guessing the steep price was mostly caused by the need to recoup R&D from a small volume of sales, rather than the cost of actually manufacturing the sensors.
> How many of these does one need in a self-driving car?
I think that definitely depends on the company you talk to. Tesla right now says 0. Other companies have been seen with 1-5.
I think that definitely depends on the company you talk to. Tesla right now says 0. Other companies have been seen with 1-5.
This is intended to replace the 64, and I've never seen more than one of those on an autonomous test vehicle.
Perhaps my title was a bit sensational, but I was very surprised to see solid state LIDAR shipping already. Anyone care to speculate on their technology? I doubt it's an OPA (power output problem), so perhaps it's a MEMS?
I'm pretty sure it's still a spinning lidar.
Nowhere in the official press release [0] did it say it's solid state.
Moreover, a recent Verge article [1] says that Velodyne is shifting attention away from solid state lidar to focus on producing spinning ones.
Note that Velodyne called its spinning lidars "hybrid solid state" which is rather misleading.
[0] http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20171107005794/en/Velo...
[1] "Employees told The Verge that resources had been redirected to the production of high-end rotating LIDAR, and that the press release touting the solid state unit had been premature." https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/18/16491052/velodyne-lidar-...
Nowhere in the official press release [0] did it say it's solid state.
Moreover, a recent Verge article [1] says that Velodyne is shifting attention away from solid state lidar to focus on producing spinning ones.
Note that Velodyne called its spinning lidars "hybrid solid state" which is rather misleading.
[0] http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20171107005794/en/Velo...
[1] "Employees told The Verge that resources had been redirected to the production of high-end rotating LIDAR, and that the press release touting the solid state unit had been premature." https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/18/16491052/velodyne-lidar-...
Ah, that makes sense, thanks for correcting me!
Maybe I'm just missing it for this one in particular, but I really dislike it when companies hide the price, and don't offer an immediate way to purchase. I see one of them has a price listed, and the other ones don't.