Mossberg: New iPhone Keeps Apple Top of Class(online.wsj.com)
online.wsj.com
Mossberg: New iPhone Keeps Apple Top of Class
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704853404575322951290405346.html?mod=WSJ_hps_LEADNewsCollection
13 comments
Ed Baig (USA Today): “Cutting through the hype, Apple has given longtime diehards, and first-time iPhone owners, plenty to cheer about.” [1]
Pogue (New York Times) doesn’t even seem to try: “Apple releases only one new model a year, so the new iPhone had better be pretty amazing to compete. — It is.” [2]
Any other reviews out yet? (Better collect them here so the front page doesn’t get clogged.)
[1] http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/edwardbaig/2010-06-22...
[2] http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/23/technology/personaltech/23...
Pogue (New York Times) doesn’t even seem to try: “Apple releases only one new model a year, so the new iPhone had better be pretty amazing to compete. — It is.” [2]
Any other reviews out yet? (Better collect them here so the front page doesn’t get clogged.)
[1] http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/edwardbaig/2010-06-22...
[2] http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/23/technology/personaltech/23...
Just found one from Boing Boing:
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/06/22/apple-iphone-4-hands.ht...
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/06/22/apple-iphone-4-hands.ht...
> the iPhone 4 is the best smartphone on the market right now
If they are only releasing one phone per year it certainly needs to be. I'm guessing it still will be by the time people can actually buy them but for how much longer after that?
If they are only releasing one phone per year it certainly needs to be. I'm guessing it still will be by the time people can actually buy them but for how much longer after that?
[deleted]
They're still selling the iPhone 3GS too. It would be interesting to see a comparative review with the equivalent mid-range Android (and/or nokia, blackberry, bada etc.) phones now that it's been updated to iOS 4.
I think the 3G was a worthy contender when it was in this position last year. I'm not so sure how it would turn out now.
I think the 3G was a worthy contender when it was in this position last year. I'm not so sure how it would turn out now.
The reviews of the iPhone 4 have to leave Apple a bit concerned. The iPhone 4 is Apple's big yearly extravaganza, and they simply can't react to an endless stream of competitive phones.
In prior years the entrant has been held as head and shoulders above the competition (really what could seriously be considered competition for the 3GS? The Hero? Not really. How about the 3G? The G1? Somehow the competition hung on when their entrants really were trash comparable). This year it is dramatically more tempered and disclaimed, and the truth is that on a purely objective basis individual consumers may prefer a Evo or a Samsung Galaxy S or a Droid X or Droid 2...and that's just the start of the 4's cycle year.
In prior years the entrant has been held as head and shoulders above the competition (really what could seriously be considered competition for the 3GS? The Hero? Not really. How about the 3G? The G1? Somehow the competition hung on when their entrants really were trash comparable). This year it is dramatically more tempered and disclaimed, and the truth is that on a purely objective basis individual consumers may prefer a Evo or a Samsung Galaxy S or a Droid X or Droid 2...and that's just the start of the 4's cycle year.
It seems the competition are the ones that are getting confused.
Where do they go? Bigger screens? I am sure that appeals to some people. More megapixels in the camera? Sure, but at reduced quality, on an already bad part.
It seems the one area the competition isn't focusing on is higher quality, and better battery life (except for Blackberries, which have great battery life). This is where Apple is going.
You are right though, they iPhone 4 doesn't have a 5 inch screen, 12 megapixel camera, 2ghz processor, slide-out keyboard, which the next Android phone will no doubt have.
Personally, I would be happy if at some stage, they produced an android phone that focused more on quality and battery life. They don't need to keep getting bigger each time.
Where do they go? Bigger screens? I am sure that appeals to some people. More megapixels in the camera? Sure, but at reduced quality, on an already bad part.
It seems the one area the competition isn't focusing on is higher quality, and better battery life (except for Blackberries, which have great battery life). This is where Apple is going.
You are right though, they iPhone 4 doesn't have a 5 inch screen, 12 megapixel camera, 2ghz processor, slide-out keyboard, which the next Android phone will no doubt have.
Personally, I would be happy if at some stage, they produced an android phone that focused more on quality and battery life. They don't need to keep getting bigger each time.
Bigger screens? I am sure that appeals to some people.
Actually SE is taking the opposite approach. They are actively pushing their X10 mini as the smallest high end smart phone on the market and using the smaller screen as a major selling point. If a huge screen appeals to you get the X10, if a really small phone appeals to you get the X10 mini.
I would be happy if at some stage, they produced an android phone that focused more on quality and battery life.
The HTC Legend is probably the phone you are talking about. High quality metal case, focus on design over specs and the best battery life of the current generation of Android phones. Hopefully HTC will continue this two pronged approach with the Desire++ being for people who need top specs at any cost and the Legend++ for people who care more about design and battery life, but still want a top quality smart phone.
That's the thing about the Android platform. No matter what your priorities, someone will probably make a phone to fulfil them.
Actually SE is taking the opposite approach. They are actively pushing their X10 mini as the smallest high end smart phone on the market and using the smaller screen as a major selling point. If a huge screen appeals to you get the X10, if a really small phone appeals to you get the X10 mini.
I would be happy if at some stage, they produced an android phone that focused more on quality and battery life.
The HTC Legend is probably the phone you are talking about. High quality metal case, focus on design over specs and the best battery life of the current generation of Android phones. Hopefully HTC will continue this two pronged approach with the Desire++ being for people who need top specs at any cost and the Legend++ for people who care more about design and battery life, but still want a top quality smart phone.
That's the thing about the Android platform. No matter what your priorities, someone will probably make a phone to fulfil them.
You do know that there's lots of different Android phones in all shapes and sizes? It's kind of the whole point of the platform.
Some are big, some small, some have keyboards, some don't, some are high-spec'ed, some basic, some expensive, some cheap.
You may have been mislead by reading gadget blogs that only focus on the male, techy, expensive, American end of the Android spectrum which might be a bit samey, but there's a whole ecosystem building out there.
Some are big, some small, some have keyboards, some don't, some are high-spec'ed, some basic, some expensive, some cheap.
You may have been mislead by reading gadget blogs that only focus on the male, techy, expensive, American end of the Android spectrum which might be a bit samey, but there's a whole ecosystem building out there.
>Where do they go? Bigger screens?
They go every direction. I think you're just amazingly confused about this.
>More megapixels in the camera? Sure, but at reduced quality, on an already bad part.
Yes, of course. Until the iPhone does it any competitors must be somehow worse, right?
Remember back in those olden days when the 3GS had almost comically bad resolution? Remember how that was no big deal? Funny how big of a deal resolution is when the iPhone gets it.
>You are right though, they iPhone 4 doesn't have a 5 inch screen, 12 megapixel camera, 2ghz processor, slide-out keyboard, which the next Android phone will no doubt have.
Yes, and of course those are all negatives for the Android device, right. Amazing how that spin can occur no matter how deficient the iPhone might be in a certain area.
Groan. Seriously, guys, this is bloody pathetic.
They go every direction. I think you're just amazingly confused about this.
>More megapixels in the camera? Sure, but at reduced quality, on an already bad part.
Yes, of course. Until the iPhone does it any competitors must be somehow worse, right?
Remember back in those olden days when the 3GS had almost comically bad resolution? Remember how that was no big deal? Funny how big of a deal resolution is when the iPhone gets it.
>You are right though, they iPhone 4 doesn't have a 5 inch screen, 12 megapixel camera, 2ghz processor, slide-out keyboard, which the next Android phone will no doubt have.
Yes, and of course those are all negatives for the Android device, right. Amazing how that spin can occur no matter how deficient the iPhone might be in a certain area.
Groan. Seriously, guys, this is bloody pathetic.
In terms of hype level if you use search volume as a proxy, this is the largest launch ever. I agree at some point, Apple will die down, but not today.
Anybody notice that this is the first time in recent memory that Apple has given the phone to bloggers outside of Baig, Pogue and Mossberg, prerelease? Looks like they sent one to Engadget and Boing Boing.
There is a gadget blog, however, that's (not-so) curiously absent from the list...
There is a gadget blog, however, that's (not-so) curiously absent from the list...
Not only that, but web-pre orders are actually getting the phone early as well, 2 days early for some people. This hasn't happened before, Apple had usually been very strict on when fedex can deliver the phone.
Possibly Apple is trying to move these as quickly as possible, since it seems this will be the biggest seller yet. There is already talk of delaying the international releases for next month.
Possibly Apple is trying to move these as quickly as possible, since it seems this will be the biggest seller yet. There is already talk of delaying the international releases for next month.
I've heard this is to mitigate risk of registration overloads. I don't think Apple has tried at-home activation since the original launch.
I am not so sure, since you apparently can not activate the phone early.
Not what I'm reading here.
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/first-iphone-...
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/first-iphone-...
I ordered a Droid Incredible at the beginning of June and it still hasn't shipped. I think I'll just get the iPhone 4 instead and return the Incredible when it does finally show up (I apparently can't cancel the shipment, I have to return it).
(I don't mean this comment to criticize you in particular kylec)
I can understand that some on HN have an Apple preference but Apple almost gets free advertising by the way some talk over here.
Why vote up a comment because someone says they're going Apple?
I can understand that some on HN have an Apple preference but Apple almost gets free advertising by the way some talk over here.
Why vote up a comment because someone says they're going Apple?
In short: Awesome new iPhone Apple.
AT&T, you still suck.
AT&T, you still suck.
AT&T's suckage continues to amaze me.
I carry both an iPhone 3gs and a Blackberry around most of the time (I'm currently justin.tv's iPhone developer). I find the iPhone pretty much useless around San Francisco because of AT&T's abysmal network coverage - I tend to just not bother and use the Blackberry instead, even though it has a worse web browsing experience (at least it always works! I haven't found a place yet that doesn't have good Sprint coverage).
I carry both an iPhone 3gs and a Blackberry around most of the time (I'm currently justin.tv's iPhone developer). I find the iPhone pretty much useless around San Francisco because of AT&T's abysmal network coverage - I tend to just not bother and use the Blackberry instead, even though it has a worse web browsing experience (at least it always works! I haven't found a place yet that doesn't have good Sprint coverage).
The iPhone is the only reason I've stuck with AT&T. Reception is bad at my home (in MD), I have few conversations that don't drop at least once during any given 10-15 minute call. Worse though, I take classes part time, and the phone shows full signal on campus but calls typically go straight to voicemail and the 3g connection is completely non-functional. Attempting to call out just gives me a network error 95% of the time.
I friend if mine lives under the hill and he solved this problem by installing phone signal booster. He mounted device to the ceiling of the living room and patched antenna to the roof. Since then he has quite good signal in his house. Ironically, neighbors' phones piggyback on it too.
I have no problems with ATT. I started with Sprint in the DC area (they started there, and tried to corner Baltimore & DC when they first went mobile). They sucked bad. Moved to North Shore (Boston), still sucked. Switched to ATT and never looked back.
Having said that, we have three generations of iPhones in our family, and when we go to remote regions everybody has to use my Motorola. I think that if Apple switched to Verizon, everybody would realize it's the phone and not the network.
Having said that, every iPhone has gotten closer and I'm hoping the 4th is a ringer, 'cuz I'd like to get one.
I've always been impressed with RIM's phones, though; they have impressive transceivers (I say that anecdotally; I don't know any specs).
Having said that, we have three generations of iPhones in our family, and when we go to remote regions everybody has to use my Motorola. I think that if Apple switched to Verizon, everybody would realize it's the phone and not the network.
Having said that, every iPhone has gotten closer and I'm hoping the 4th is a ringer, 'cuz I'd like to get one.
I've always been impressed with RIM's phones, though; they have impressive transceivers (I say that anecdotally; I don't know any specs).
New iPhone has new quite ingenious antenna design - parts of the external steel frame are used as antenna, so there is a good change it will work better than the old iPhone.
According to the review, the opposite is the case. The demo at WWDC also indicated that the iPhone 4 was worse than the 3GS even for wifi.
How so?
I don't think the 3GS was on wifi. Where did you find out this was the case?
They were both on wifi. The problem on the 4 was likely caused by it supporting N, which is of course much better than 3GS's G but is more sensitive to the edge case of ~500 people in the same room as you running wireless base stations without bothering to set up channels properly.
I don't think a change to the antenna would affect how it behaves in the same room as its base station, anyway.
I don't think a change to the antenna would affect how it behaves in the same room as its base station, anyway.
AT&T's awful network is the reason I ended up switching to an HTC Evo 4G on Sprint. I knew the iPhone 4 was going to be great, but the fact that AT&T is awful in my city meant it wasn't an option. If I was the sort of person who used a BB for business and a separate phone for personal, the iPhone 4 on ATT would be tolerable, but that isn't me.
After years of ATT's awful network, my first few minutes on Sprint gave me nerd chills: the same nerd chills I got when I was 15 and surfed the internet with broadband for the first time.
After years of ATT's awful network, my first few minutes on Sprint gave me nerd chills: the same nerd chills I got when I was 15 and surfed the internet with broadband for the first time.
I can't decide which is worse, AT&T's network, or HTC Evo 4G's battery life...
I think reviews overstate the battery life matter. Mine drops to 40-50% after a day of use from 8am to 10pm. I don't use any fancy app killers or anything like that, I just only turn on 4G and GPS when necessary, have my 3G radio set up to activate on-demand, and rely on Wi-Fi for my data needs (My apartment, favorite bar, and office all have Wi-Fi).
The first few days of ownership I was actually struggling to wear my battery down to <5% so I could do a full charge cycle.
Note: I have a "Rev B." Evo.
My biggest complaint is that 4G service indoors is awful (close to non-existent unless you live in a house made of paper), and outdoors it is very latent even with a strong signal ( 200+ms)
The first few days of ownership I was actually struggling to wear my battery down to <5% so I could do a full charge cycle.
Note: I have a "Rev B." Evo.
My biggest complaint is that 4G service indoors is awful (close to non-existent unless you live in a house made of paper), and outdoors it is very latent even with a strong signal ( 200+ms)
Well, I've never gotten through a whole day without draining mine completely, even with 4G/WiFi/GPS usually off.
I'm not sure which revision I have (got it at Google IO)
I'm not sure which revision I have (got it at Google IO)
Can't say I've had any serious problems with AT&T. I can't even remember the last time I didn't have 3G coverage or good signal. I'm quite sure some people do have problems but considering AT&T is still adding subscribers at a brisk pace, and keeping their old subscribers, makes me think the issues are hugely overstated. All 70 million AT&T customers can't be having these types of problems.
Are we (USA) the last country stuck with a single carrier iPhone?
No, you aren't. There may be other examples, but at least in Germany the iPhone is exclusive to T-Mobile. The bad news about that is that T-Mobile charges outrageous prices compared to the other carriers. The good news is that their network works really, really well.
We expected something different from Mossberg?
Offering an stunning device like this for $199 and $55 per month will likely result in an extended period of short supplies. Most people are accustomed to paying this for much lesser phones.
Apple is fighting with both hands tied behind their back by limiting availability to one carrier in the US, though.
Apple is fighting with both hands tied behind their back by limiting availability to one carrier in the US, though.
"Apple is fighting with both hands tied behind their back by limiting availability to one carrier in the US, though."
And winning.
And winning.
Not winning in terms of trending. They've opened the door wide-open for Android, and it's making rapid inroads. The new iPhone is a great phone, but it's no longer leaps and bounds ahead the competition. With Froyo I'm not sure that it's even a clear-cut leader in software anymore. The cloud-level integration of Android is already putting some strain on Apples market lead.
I'm not sure it's fair to say that Apple is 'winning' at this point. All of the current trends look like a dog-fight is coming. I continue to believe that Google wins this (by a wide margin) in the end.
I'm not sure it's fair to say that Apple is 'winning' at this point. All of the current trends look like a dog-fight is coming. I continue to believe that Google wins this (by a wide margin) in the end.
They're winning in terms of quality of the phones that they release, but they are already losing at the numbers. Nokia is #1, Android is #2 and while the iPhone is currently #3, it's likely that it will have to fight with RIM and Microsoft to maintain this spot.
And in a few years, Android's market share will probably dwarf Apple's, considering the current trend.
Apple just can't fight against dozens of manufacturers and carriers around the world.
And in a few years, Android's market share will probably dwarf Apple's, considering the current trend.
Apple just can't fight against dozens of manufacturers and carriers around the world.
Wrong numbers. Apple is interested in money, not market share. Compare financial results of Nokia and Apple and tell me you still think Nokia is doing well being #1.
It doesn't matter what Apple is interested in, I was just quoting existing numbers. Apple is #3 and likely to become #4 in the next couple of years. Whether they enjoy that position or not is irrelevant to this discussion.
We're discussing market share, not revenues.
Besides, I'm pretty sure Apple would love to lead both in market share and in revenues.
We're discussing market share, not revenues.
Besides, I'm pretty sure Apple would love to lead both in market share and in revenues.
I'm pretty sure Apple would pick profits over both.
Haha, touché. I was talking about profits, of course. Nokia's revenues dwarf Apple's but they not making anywhere near as much money as Apple is.
Back to the original point, it's funny how any observation that Apple is now #3 and about to become #4 in market share is automatically met with "Bah, Apple doesn't care about that, they only care about money".
Try it, it never misses.
Back to the original point, it's funny how any observation that Apple is now #3 and about to become #4 in market share is automatically met with "Bah, Apple doesn't care about that, they only care about money".
Try it, it never misses.
Ah ... I was wondering how much the contract was monthly, mostly so I could figure out how much it actually costs over two years. At $55, the total cost is $1520. Somehow, I don't think that quite as many people would pay that much for it if they had to up-front.
They might if that up-front price also included the service for those two years.
True; that was what I was thinking, in fact. What I was trying to get at is that it's easier for the human mind to deal with lower costs which continue over a long time than a high cost up front, even if the same thing with all the same features is being purchased.
It's amazing that they didn't mention android once in the article. Seems like an important thing to leave out of a review of a product in a competitive space.
Actually, I'm quite happy when a reviewer actually concentrates on what they are reviewing and goes in-depth. Product comparisons are nice, but I would rather they use the space to really tell me about the product. I can make my own comparisons relevant to myself if given enough information by a reviewer.
I was really looking forward to iPhone 4, but now after upgrading my 3GS to iOS 4.0 I'm not sure why I would upgrade. It's really that good.
Which is great from a longevity point of view, but not from a gadget-lust point of view. I still have over a month to decide anyway, as they don't come out in Australia until late July. Unless they're delayed, like the iPad was.
First world problems...
Which is great from a longevity point of view, but not from a gadget-lust point of view. I still have over a month to decide anyway, as they don't come out in Australia until late July. Unless they're delayed, like the iPad was.
First world problems...
Classic Mossberg review - thumbs up of course! I really wonder why Apple wants to hide specs for another 40 some days. I really hope there's a ATT alternative states-side. And 3g is old news, when do we get to use Clear 4g or something along those lines?
A 4G option will probably appear when 4G networks and chipsets do not drain battery power faster than a mortgage broker hoovering blow off a prostitutes ass.
I wouldn't be so fast to dismiss 3G. T-mo is in the process of rolling out HSPA+ updates to their 3G network that have higher theoretical speeds than current 4G networks. The first round of markets went live within the past few weeks; something like 15 major markets (ATL is the only one I remember for sure).
The existing 4G deployments would probably collapse under the load of the millions of iPhones that will be sold in the next 60-90 days. I doubt new deployments could possibly keep up either. Personally I'm a little skeptical about 4G in the short term. Reminds me of Verizon's FTTH project. No one doubts its technical merits but if they don't actually deploy it in your area it's less impressive than a can on a string. If the same happens with 4G in the US I'll be happy with fast 3G for the next couple of years.
Perhaps Apple wants to hide the spec for 45 days because it would reveal a CDMA radio?
I enjoyed this line: "it manages to make the 3GS appear bulbous by comparison"
I enjoyed this line: "it manages to make the 3GS appear bulbous by comparison"
And yet for making phone calls there still isn't "an app for that."
What intrigues me is that there have been zero rumors (from any of the sites I frequent) about Apple investing in or starting its own wireless carrier. Since they're not well known for giving up control over user experience it only makes sense that something along these lines has to have at least been considered.
The telecom space is so ripe for competition in the US. It's a shame that the amount of capital required is so monumental. Can you imagine a wireless carrier that had good coverage, customer service, and billing practices?
What intrigues me is that there have been zero rumors (from any of the sites I frequent) about Apple investing in or starting its own wireless carrier. Since they're not well known for giving up control over user experience it only makes sense that something along these lines has to have at least been considered.
The telecom space is so ripe for competition in the US. It's a shame that the amount of capital required is so monumental. Can you imagine a wireless carrier that had good coverage, customer service, and billing practices?
Background VOIP clients shouldn't be ignored for improving the call situation.
There's no way Apple will ever become a carrier though. And such a shame they're hostile towards Google, Google Voice is our best hope for a new carrier yet...
There's no way Apple will ever become a carrier though. And such a shame they're hostile towards Google, Google Voice is our best hope for a new carrier yet...
Agreed on the Google Voice point. Apple as a carrier might be far-fetched, but a solution to the problem of customer neglect/hostility by the carriers seems like something they'd be interested in fixing. Investing in one of the current carriers to gain a bit of leverage seems like a great way to alienate the rest (but so does investing in a new one now that I think about it).
In the end it's a lot of wishful thinking on my part, but the opportunity to mop the floor with the current competition still lingers.
In the end it's a lot of wishful thinking on my part, but the opportunity to mop the floor with the current competition still lingers.
Anyone know where I'll be able to get a iPhone 4 without contract in the US?
You can get iPhone without contract for the full price in any Apple store, I did it couple months back for iPhone 3GS. It's still locked to AT&T though (i.e. you don't sign 2-year contract, but it still doesn't accept non-AT&T SIM cards).
But apparently you can get unlocked one (for the full price of course) in Canada. If you live close to border, this could be a very viable option. Canada is probably going to get new iPhone by the end of the summer.
In any case you might need microSIM cutter: http://www.cutmysim.com/ or be very precise when wielding your box cutter.
But apparently you can get unlocked one (for the full price of course) in Canada. If you live close to border, this could be a very viable option. Canada is probably going to get new iPhone by the end of the summer.
In any case you might need microSIM cutter: http://www.cutmysim.com/ or be very precise when wielding your box cutter.
I did this too this past October. It's a piece of cake to just walk in, say you want to pay full price, and walk out with a (still sealed in its box, even) brand new iPhone.
Can I buy an iPhone without an AT&T contract?
No. iPhone requires a two-year AT&T wireless service contract.
Actually, yes: "For those who are not eligible for an early upgrade or who wish to buy iPhone as a gift, the prices are $499 (8GB), $599 (16GB), or $699 (32GB)."
from lower on the same page.
Although this is what the website claims, it's actually incorrect. You can buy a phone for full price and no AT&T service at all at an Apple retail store.
So... Canada then.
eBay in a couple weeks
So how does Colloquy do it? (Staying connected)
He actually says "I'd say that Apple has built a beautiful smartphone that works well, adds impressive new features and is still, overall, the best device in its class". The tone just seems different from the submission.
Got a chuckle at this (he's talking about the "retina" display) - "I don't know how it compares with the human retina, but I do know that, just as Apple claims, text on the screen shows no jagged lines, even when expanded to giant size"
Yuk yuk. I picture someone zooming into a fractal, desperately trying to get to the end. Mossberg is hardly the first person who has exploded a vector graphic (in this case fonts) looking for the pixels, as if it demonstrates something about the display.
Got a chuckle at this (he's talking about the "retina" display) - "I don't know how it compares with the human retina, but I do know that, just as Apple claims, text on the screen shows no jagged lines, even when expanded to giant size"
Yuk yuk. I picture someone zooming into a fractal, desperately trying to get to the end. Mossberg is hardly the first person who has exploded a vector graphic (in this case fonts) looking for the pixels, as if it demonstrates something about the display.
I don't think he was talking about zooming in a vector graphic. I believe he is saying that the physical pixels on the screen are so physically tiny that he can not see the individual pixels.
He said "expanded to giant size" referring to text. If he meant "taking a digital image and expanding", well you barely have to expand it at all before you can see the pixels. He was clearly talking about actually enlarging text.
You're right, I was wrong. Thanks for clearing it up for me.
Umm I have to disagree. The lack of a notification bar / system, widgets really detract. I think the over glossed UI is getting stale. I think the new design is worse than the old. It looks like something LG was making a few years ago. People calling it "gorgeous" are fan boys sorely in denial. It's a brick. A shiny brick but still a brick. It feel cold and sharp in your hands just like MBPs (not a compliment).
The screen is not huge revolution it's slightly more res than has been going into pretty much every smart phone for a year. Telling the difference between those resolutions at that scale is nearly impossible.
I just don't see anything to be impressed by blockier design, OS upgrades that still doesn't catch Android in core functionality, and not to mention ATT.
The screen is not huge revolution it's slightly more res than has been going into pretty much every smart phone for a year. Telling the difference between those resolutions at that scale is nearly impossible.
I just don't see anything to be impressed by blockier design, OS upgrades that still doesn't catch Android in core functionality, and not to mention ATT.
I noticed you were downvoted with the quickness, and I think I know one of the reasons why:
"People calling it 'gorgeous' are fan boys sorely in denial."
I can't help but think that a similarly phrased argument supporting Apple and denigrating a competitor would not be down voted so rapidly. I mean 'everything else after that is bullshit' seems a little opinionated as well.
> I thought for a moment how to rephrase that in a nicer way, but I couldn't.
Apart from the 'fan boys sorely in denial' I can't see what's so bad about putting your own view forward on the aesthetics of the physical device. Especially if you have actually had the opportunity to see and feel it as the author implies (I don't know if that is true or not). Apple fans are notorious for assuming their aesthetic sensibilities are synonymous with 'good taste' or 'good design' so I don't see what is so bad about a non-fan doing the same. To me the pictures of the device make it look a little 'odd' or 'cold'.
I'm not saying the post is hugely insightful or anything but there does seem to be a bit of a double standard going on.
> I thought for a moment how to rephrase that in a nicer way, but I couldn't.
Apart from the 'fan boys sorely in denial' I can't see what's so bad about putting your own view forward on the aesthetics of the physical device. Especially if you have actually had the opportunity to see and feel it as the author implies (I don't know if that is true or not). Apple fans are notorious for assuming their aesthetic sensibilities are synonymous with 'good taste' or 'good design' so I don't see what is so bad about a non-fan doing the same. To me the pictures of the device make it look a little 'odd' or 'cold'.
I'm not saying the post is hugely insightful or anything but there does seem to be a bit of a double standard going on.
There is definitely a bias favoring Apple on Hacker News, but that doesn't mean that posting anything that does not praise Apple will get you voted down.
You just have to make sure that when you do decide to make a post that points out flaws in Apple this or that, your post should be well thought out - and avoid being inflammatory.
Yes, these should be guidelines for any post here on HN, but you probably have less leeway when you're challenging someone's relatively established mindset. Protip: Throwing around the phrase "fan boy" does no one any good, and certainly won't help your karma.
You just have to make sure that when you do decide to make a post that points out flaws in Apple this or that, your post should be well thought out - and avoid being inflammatory.
Yes, these should be guidelines for any post here on HN, but you probably have less leeway when you're challenging someone's relatively established mindset. Protip: Throwing around the phrase "fan boy" does no one any good, and certainly won't help your karma.
> Throwing around the phrase "fan boy" does no one any good, and certainly won't help your karma.
True but in many ways the 'definite bias favoring Apple on Hacker News' does actually validate the concept of a cluster of people that could usefully be described by a distinct term. If 'fanboys' is considered an offensive slur (as it appears to be) then I'm personally happy to use the term 'Apple fans' but they are essentially referring to the phenomena/grouping.
Personally I'm less interested in karma than contributing to the insight-fullness and accuracy of the discussion. I'll gladly wear my -20 comments as a badge of pride as long as they do this.
True but in many ways the 'definite bias favoring Apple on Hacker News' does actually validate the concept of a cluster of people that could usefully be described by a distinct term. If 'fanboys' is considered an offensive slur (as it appears to be) then I'm personally happy to use the term 'Apple fans' but they are essentially referring to the phenomena/grouping.
Personally I'm less interested in karma than contributing to the insight-fullness and accuracy of the discussion. I'll gladly wear my -20 comments as a badge of pride as long as they do this.
> If 'fanboys' is considered an offensive slur (as it appears to be) then I'm personally happy to use the term 'Apple fans' but they are essentially referring to the phenomena/grouping.
Please do. 'fanboys' certainly is not a distinct term that is useful to describe a cluster of people, as you say, at least not any more.
Aside: Harry McCracken recently wrote a (rather long) essay on the origin and evolution of the word 'fanboy': http://technologizer.com/2010/05/17/fanboy/
Please do. 'fanboys' certainly is not a distinct term that is useful to describe a cluster of people, as you say, at least not any more.
Aside: Harry McCracken recently wrote a (rather long) essay on the origin and evolution of the word 'fanboy': http://technologizer.com/2010/05/17/fanboy/
Interesting article (or at least the first part of it). Just to clarify I did not believe that believe that the word 'fanboy' by itself specifically referred to Apple 'evangelists'. The meaning as defined by the article does however describe fairly succinctly a certain attitude that is consistent with the attitude of some Apple 'supporters' and 'fans'.
The word is certainly older than I'd expected but the meaning seems to have remained pretty constant.
The word is certainly older than I'd expected but the meaning seems to have remained pretty constant.
> If 'fanboys' is considered an offensive slur
If you remove the offensive slur, the comment would end up just saying, "many people who liked previous Apple products also like the new iPhone." Without the offensive slur, it's clear that the comment is practically content free, and likely not worth saying in the first place.
If you remove the offensive slur, the comment would end up just saying, "many people who liked previous Apple products also like the new iPhone." Without the offensive slur, it's clear that the comment is practically content free, and likely not worth saying in the first place.
I think you are going overboard about the 'offensive slur'. If you replace 'fan boys' with 'uncritical supporters' or 'evangelical fans' then the point stands. If you are arguing that there doesn't exist a certain grouping of uncritical and fanatical Apple fans then state your case. You may find this notion unflattering and disagreeable but it is a legitimate argument regardless of whether you happen to find it offensive. Don't think you are going to kill discussion of it by repeating the word 'offensive slur'.
Secondly the original comment said a lot more than just that phrase which makes your argument incorrect, worse than than content free.
Secondly the original comment said a lot more than just that phrase which makes your argument incorrect, worse than than content free.
True, I shouldn't have repeated "offensive slur" in the second sentence. It would have read better as, "Without, it's clear that..."
> You just have to make sure that when you do decide to make a post that points out flaws in Apple this or that, your post should be well thought out - and avoid being inflammatory.
Actually this argument reminds me of the concept of an 'Uncle Tom' for African Americans. Sometime I think you are right and other times you I believe you just need to 'tell it like it is'.
Actually this argument reminds me of the concept of an 'Uncle Tom' for African Americans. Sometime I think you are right and other times you I believe you just need to 'tell it like it is'.
So you've used the new phone? Most people actually, you know, try a device before reviewing it.
We're not going to beat around the bush -- in our approximation, the iPhone 4 is the best smartphone on the market right now. The combination of gorgeous new hardware, that amazing display, upgraded cameras, and major improvements to the operating system make this an extremely formidable package.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/22/iphone-4-review/