Study indicates mushrooms may be the safest recreational drug(theguardian.com)
theguardian.com
Study indicates mushrooms may be the safest recreational drug
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/23/study-hallucinogenic-mushrooms-safest-recreational-drug-lsd
11 comments
>Mushrooms don't sound safe at all, as far as I know mushrooms have to be grown exactly right or they may develop deadly fungi.
This is no more true of psilocybes than it is of shitakes.
This is no more true of psilocybes than it is of shitakes.
I've never personally heard any stories of "contaminated mushrooms". But there are other similar risks - like mistaking poisonous mushrooms for magic mushrooms.
In general, magic mushrooms are either cultivated indoors by someone in a terrarium and keeping the environment just right. To even grow the mushrooms (which are fairly weak compared to most other fungi and bacteria) you actually need to start by sterilizing the substrate, usually by boiling, then you inoculate with a sterile needle the spores. Overall, this is pretty safe because pretty much any kind of contamination, the fungi won't fruit (you eat the fruiting bodies), so there's just not really any mushrooms to give you.
The other way is of course to go mushroom hunting. This is a lot more dangerous, because there are mushrooms that are poisonous that will straight up kill you. It can be hard to tell the difference sometimes, especially if you don't know what you're looking for.
One last thing is your body already kind of knows they are a toxin. Many people feel ill or sick to their stomach after ingesting them, and some will throw up. In terms of drug safety, eating things is probably one of the safest, because your body is always ready to expel bad food. The least safe of course is probably straight injection, and smoking isn't too great for you either.
I won't say they're safe, but what really is in this world?
In general, magic mushrooms are either cultivated indoors by someone in a terrarium and keeping the environment just right. To even grow the mushrooms (which are fairly weak compared to most other fungi and bacteria) you actually need to start by sterilizing the substrate, usually by boiling, then you inoculate with a sterile needle the spores. Overall, this is pretty safe because pretty much any kind of contamination, the fungi won't fruit (you eat the fruiting bodies), so there's just not really any mushrooms to give you.
The other way is of course to go mushroom hunting. This is a lot more dangerous, because there are mushrooms that are poisonous that will straight up kill you. It can be hard to tell the difference sometimes, especially if you don't know what you're looking for.
One last thing is your body already kind of knows they are a toxin. Many people feel ill or sick to their stomach after ingesting them, and some will throw up. In terms of drug safety, eating things is probably one of the safest, because your body is always ready to expel bad food. The least safe of course is probably straight injection, and smoking isn't too great for you either.
I won't say they're safe, but what really is in this world?
Detection of contaminated mushrooms is no different than detection of contaminated food, if there's mold on it, don't eat it. It's not that involved a process to cultivate mushrooms, you're making a lot of assumptions. It might be worth researching the process if you're interested.
Except by the small fact that your heart can decide to stop if you use too much of it and introduce you in the wonders of Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation (true story also).
Being obvious here, but what about pot? Have personally done mushrooms 5 or so times. and while it can be pretty casual with a small dose, it easily gets into the realm of somewhat-spiritual meta-thinking (after a few of these experiences I didnt much desire them anymore) . Similar to LSD in this regard, and probably not the best thing to mix with alcohol.
Got to be careful to get the right sort of mushrooms though https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin_mushroom and not some other stuff.
Interesting. From the psychological side I found mushrooms to be way less predictive than LSD. Assuming basic rules are applied to both including safe dosing.
> ... just 0.2% of them said they needed emergency medical treatment
The metric here is "decided to go to the hospital". So the "basic rules" are not really controlled for. If folks who take shrooms know their potential, they might plan their trip better.
I suppose the critical inputs might be something like "sum of [actual toxic effects of drug times ease of overdose, effects of drug w/symptoms that match actual illness]". If the actual toxicity dominates the reported hospital visits, shrooms should win, right?
> “Death from toxicity is almost unheard of with poisoning with more dangerous fungi being a much greater risk in terms of serious harms.”
The metric here is "decided to go to the hospital". So the "basic rules" are not really controlled for. If folks who take shrooms know their potential, they might plan their trip better.
I suppose the critical inputs might be something like "sum of [actual toxic effects of drug times ease of overdose, effects of drug w/symptoms that match actual illness]". If the actual toxicity dominates the reported hospital visits, shrooms should win, right?
> “Death from toxicity is almost unheard of with poisoning with more dangerous fungi being a much greater risk in terms of serious harms.”
Predictive of what?
Edit: I've read studies that found psychological benefits from a single use of LSD, six months later. Anyone able to comment on whether or not this is true for mushrooms?
Edit: I've read studies that found psychological benefits from a single use of LSD, six months later. Anyone able to comment on whether or not this is true for mushrooms?
probably ment predictable. You are less able to control emotions IMO which CAN hurt your psychological health (doesnt have to tho)
>> You are less able to control emotions <<
The entire point is to surrender and let go of control. So if you are a person who lives in a paradigm where emotions are things that need to be controlled, psychedelic are going to be a stern teacher for your ego.
I'd recommend folks starting with something like Holotropic Breathwork and learning to surrender to your felt experience without trying to manage or control it.
The entire point is to surrender and let go of control. So if you are a person who lives in a paradigm where emotions are things that need to be controlled, psychedelic are going to be a stern teacher for your ego.
I'd recommend folks starting with something like Holotropic Breathwork and learning to surrender to your felt experience without trying to manage or control it.
Perhaps they meant predictable? If so, I'd be inclined to agree.
>>Study indicates mushrooms may be the safest recreational drug
PEDs not included in the study.
PEDs not included in the study.
Performance enhancing drugs? I wouldn't really classify those as recreational...
Amphetamines are classified as PED's and they most certainly are used for recreation.
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I don't think the study says a single thing about safety.
This was a study on the perception of safety of drugs by unqualified users. The people who went to the ER because of cannabis would have gone for shrooms too, they just perceive it as more dangerous and don't take it.
This was a study on the perception of safety of drugs by unqualified users. The people who went to the ER because of cannabis would have gone for shrooms too, they just perceive it as more dangerous and don't take it.
Shrooms can cause nausea in proportion to the dose, so there's a natural limit to exposure. You're on your own with THC edibles.
Of course one could get into trouble by guzzling high-potency tea, but the same could be said for caffeinated tea or alcohol.
Of course one could get into trouble by guzzling high-potency tea, but the same could be said for caffeinated tea or alcohol.
The nausea doesn't hit you until after you're committed, so it's not self limiting in that way.
Anecdotal: people who do hallucinogenic mushrooms are way more likely to know what they're getting into.
The decision to ingest mushrooms isn't a matter of psychological need (as it sometimes is with alcohol or amphetamines), and it's very rarely made out of impulse in a social setting (e.g. ecstasy). It is typically a deliberate choice with the expectation of having a psychedelic experience - complete with the understanding that it might be a bad trip. You do as much prep work as you can beforehand to make sure it's comfortable.
Taking care and preparing for the high isn't really baked into the culture of other drugs in the same way.
The decision to ingest mushrooms isn't a matter of psychological need (as it sometimes is with alcohol or amphetamines), and it's very rarely made out of impulse in a social setting (e.g. ecstasy). It is typically a deliberate choice with the expectation of having a psychedelic experience - complete with the understanding that it might be a bad trip. You do as much prep work as you can beforehand to make sure it's comfortable.
Taking care and preparing for the high isn't really baked into the culture of other drugs in the same way.
> The decision to ingest mushrooms isn't a matter of psychological need (as it sometimes is with alcohol or amphetamines), and it's very rarely made out of impulse in a social setting (e.g. ecstasy).
I've definitely felt pressured into taking mushrooms. It's a very social thing to do. You need a "sitter" who stays sober which means it makes the most sense to do in groups.
I also have known many disturbed people who ingest mushrooms frequently to escape their lives.
I've definitely felt pressured into taking mushrooms. It's a very social thing to do. You need a "sitter" who stays sober which means it makes the most sense to do in groups.
I also have known many disturbed people who ingest mushrooms frequently to escape their lives.
> I've definitely felt pressured into taking mushrooms. It's a very social thing to do. You need a "sitter" who stays sober
Your mileage may vary! But this is exactly my point: when a group of you get together to take mushrooms, you recognize the need to have someone sober around to take care of everyone else and make sure they're safe.
For comparison, let's look at alcohol - you're very lucky if you can find someone willing to be the designated driver, let alone a group where emphasis is placed on keeping each other safe. There's even a level of taboo around slowing down those who are drinking too much.
It doesn't surprise me how many people are hospitalized for alcohol overdose or related accidents. The culture is very different.
Your mileage may vary! But this is exactly my point: when a group of you get together to take mushrooms, you recognize the need to have someone sober around to take care of everyone else and make sure they're safe.
For comparison, let's look at alcohol - you're very lucky if you can find someone willing to be the designated driver, let alone a group where emphasis is placed on keeping each other safe. There's even a level of taboo around slowing down those who are drinking too much.
It doesn't surprise me how many people are hospitalized for alcohol overdose or related accidents. The culture is very different.
I know many people who smoke pot or drink alone, nightly. I know very few who take mushrooms alone.
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I agree, and I think a group setting is generally the more responsible way to go with any drug. But I don't see the same level of pressure around it (i.e. to take more or push limits) that I do with alcohol.
Taking care of each other is steeped into the culture, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's why we see a far lower rate of hospitalization.
Taking care of each other is steeped into the culture, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's why we see a far lower rate of hospitalization.
>You need a "sitter" who stays sober
Some people find the presence of a dedicated mental-health-evaluator quite distressing and distracting re: deep introspection
Some people find the presence of a dedicated mental-health-evaluator quite distressing and distracting re: deep introspection
When I was in school, people used to take mushrooms as accompaniment to concerts for certain kinds of music, but also there'd be times when they'd tell me they just did it (by themselves) cuz they had some leftovers in their baggies and well, why wait and share? So, it can be both.
True story. Friend of mine takes mushrooms for the first time, has a massive 'bad' trip, sees himself dying and realizes that life is short and fragile and if he survives the trip, he will make something out of it.
Of course he survived the trip.
Next day (eg. soon) arrives at the conclusion that he's wasting his life working for an investment bank, quits his high-paying programmer job, invests most of his savings into bitcoin and starts working on a bitcoin-related application (I won't name it, because this is a private story), decides it's his mission in life. This was 4 years ago.
At today's exchange rate, his BTC are worth a couple of million and the app is currently in beta.
Now of course this is a good story, because a guy took mushrooms and is now a millionaire, but I suspect that the story could just as likely gone south (together with BTC's price) so then his actions could have been interpreted as quite reckless - giving up a good job and investing in 'speculative tech'.
Psychedelics are quite safe physically and even psychologically - however, the consequences of the decisions taken after a psychedelic 'enlightenment' experience should also be taken into account.
In other words, know that your life might change dramatically after a powerful trip - and that includes relationships, career, education choices and so on.
With that said, I still think the revelations themselves are worth it and the more people have them, the better the world will be as a whole.
Next day (eg. soon) arrives at the conclusion that he's wasting his life working for an investment bank, quits his high-paying programmer job, invests most of his savings into bitcoin and starts working on a bitcoin-related application (I won't name it, because this is a private story), decides it's his mission in life. This was 4 years ago.
At today's exchange rate, his BTC are worth a couple of million and the app is currently in beta.
Now of course this is a good story, because a guy took mushrooms and is now a millionaire, but I suspect that the story could just as likely gone south (together with BTC's price) so then his actions could have been interpreted as quite reckless - giving up a good job and investing in 'speculative tech'.
Psychedelics are quite safe physically and even psychologically - however, the consequences of the decisions taken after a psychedelic 'enlightenment' experience should also be taken into account.
In other words, know that your life might change dramatically after a powerful trip - and that includes relationships, career, education choices and so on.
With that said, I still think the revelations themselves are worth it and the more people have them, the better the world will be as a whole.
tl;dr eat magic mushrooms, become a millionaire
Survivorship bias! :P
Typical story:
"Took magic mushroom, realized futility of my life's direction.
Took life savings, bought 1600 bitcoins at $250/BTC.
Invested all BTC in more magic mushrooms.
Next step...contemplating writing an 'Ask HN' for advice, but unsure where I left my house."
Typical story:
"Took magic mushroom, realized futility of my life's direction.
Took life savings, bought 1600 bitcoins at $250/BTC.
Invested all BTC in more magic mushrooms.
Next step...contemplating writing an 'Ask HN' for advice, but unsure where I left my house."
It's definitely not "eat mushrooms; become millionaire". It's unlikely that there's a highly predictable way a mental change will effect your life, but the "typical story" is also a misrepresentation.
It's possible that it has positive mental consequences with some regularity. My impression is that this might be true. Some reasons for this may be it's culture of use, perception of the drug, and most importantly its biological effects. Most psychedelics alter the serotonin receptor system(Psychedelic Drug, Wikipedia), and are culturally, and more recently medically, associated with "higher consciousness" (Guardian).
At the risk of highly simplifying complex mental/neurological interactions, I think one of the things mushrooms provide is perspective as a result of examining everything from an altered mental state.
Having experimented with small to moderately high doses, my hypotheses as to what my personal version of the altered mental's state's characteristics are are:
Hopefully people do studies. I'd volunteer for low-to-none toxicity drugs like mushrooms.
Citations:
(Kahneman): "Thinking, Fast and Slow" by Daniel Kahneman, https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11468377-thinking-fast-a...
(Psychedelic Drug, Wikipedia): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_drug
(Guardian): https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/apr/19/brain-scans-...
It's possible that it has positive mental consequences with some regularity. My impression is that this might be true. Some reasons for this may be it's culture of use, perception of the drug, and most importantly its biological effects. Most psychedelics alter the serotonin receptor system(Psychedelic Drug, Wikipedia), and are culturally, and more recently medically, associated with "higher consciousness" (Guardian).
At the risk of highly simplifying complex mental/neurological interactions, I think one of the things mushrooms provide is perspective as a result of examining everything from an altered mental state.
Having experimented with small to moderately high doses, my hypotheses as to what my personal version of the altered mental's state's characteristics are are:
*some effect on attention and mental effort that unify attention to an abstract focus and allow extended mental effort.
*maybe it makes every thought feel very profound.
*maybe it allows us to emotionally react to simulated outcomes which can make long term thinking more statistically accurate.
*introduces some new mental illusions.
*various effects on the whole perception black box. The same one that stitches, both eyeball inputs together, ignores your nose, and removes blurry eye images,etc.
*makes mental associations more observable
Hopefully people do studies. I'd volunteer for low-to-none toxicity drugs like mushrooms.
Citations:
(Kahneman): "Thinking, Fast and Slow" by Daniel Kahneman, https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11468377-thinking-fast-a...
(Psychedelic Drug, Wikipedia): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_drug
(Guardian): https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/apr/19/brain-scans-...
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You can actually have those very same epiphanies simply by actually taking the time to think long and hard about what your current circumstances are, what you've learned about it so far.
hmmmm...no, I do not believe you are correct about this. the nature of an epiphany is that it is NOT a variety of normal thinking.
there are certain contemplative disciplines that can lead to similar epiphanies of a psychedelic experience, but "taking the time to think long and hard" is not really one of the method's I'm familiar with. meditation is not "thinking long and hard".
there are certain contemplative disciplines that can lead to similar epiphanies of a psychedelic experience, but "taking the time to think long and hard" is not really one of the method's I'm familiar with. meditation is not "thinking long and hard".
Well I have had several moments where I suddenly experienced equal parts gut-wrenching and liberating realizations about my life an life in general. Whether or not these count as epiphanies is perhaps up for debate as I can't access other people's subjective experiences, but based on the descriptions of epiphanies given to me by others it sure seems extremely similar.
I'm assuming that thinking hard about my life led to additional subconscious thinking which led to these realizations, just like any other eureka moment. It seems the wheels did churn out something behind the scenes, they just had to be prompted to do so.
I'm assuming that thinking hard about my life led to additional subconscious thinking which led to these realizations, just like any other eureka moment. It seems the wheels did churn out something behind the scenes, they just had to be prompted to do so.
Yeah recreational thinking about your circumstances sounds fun too
I didn't say it was recreational or supposed to be fun. I just wanted to point out that you don't need to rely on drugs to suddenly understand your life a little better than you did before.
True you don't, but they are easier on some level and give you no real escape once you commit to taking them. Sitting down and putting the work in is certainly as effective, but you can bail on committing to that where as there is no escape from the chemicals once they're in you.
That's a very good point and something I had not considered !
Have you ever had a psychedelic experience?
Mushrooms is one of the best things I ever did in my life.
I'm more into meditation these days tho.
I'm more into meditation these days tho.
I understand that the risk of deadly contamination also exists with non-hallucinogenic store-bought mushrooms, however, there is a world of difference between trusting a regulated business with your potentially deadly food and trusting a criminal drug gang.
I wonder how much the purported "safety" of mushrooms are just because they are rarely used. This survey finds that meth and synthetic cannabis are the most dangerous drugs,and maybe that's more a result of the fact that they are just so widespread than actual danger.
Also, looking at medical treatment alone might be misleading without looking at severity of the condition. Contaminated mushrooms can easily result in death.
Also, I wonder if they even included contaminated mushrooms in the study of emergency room visits. The article uses the vague sentence:
>“Death from toxicity is almost unheard of with poisoning with more dangerous fungi being a much greater risk in terms of serious harms.”
This makes me wonder if the study choose not to consider emergency room visits as a result of contaminated mushrooms.
Sure uncontaminated mushrooms are relatively safe, but given how easily they can become contaminated and deadly, I would question their reputation as a "safe drug."