Ubuntu's window buttons to stay on the left(bugs.launchpad.net)
bugs.launchpad.net
Ubuntu's window buttons to stay on the left
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/532633/comments/564
11 comments
That's my main issue with all this UI twiddling that Canonical are doing at the moment - the left hand buttons, the notify actions removal, removing tooltips from indicator items, and gnome's great menu-icon removal of the last cycle.
There's absolutely no data, no testing and no rationale to backup any of these changes. No-one has been able to point me to impirical data, or any user testing to explain why these sweeping changes have been made, because there hasn't been any. Some XU designer thought it looked 'cooler' or 'cleaner' that way, so it got changed - end of story.
I really tried with the left hand title bar buttons - but after a week of 15 years of muscle memory putting my mouse in the wrong place every single time, I just had to change it back. Even if I had got used to it, so what? They're the same buttons in a different place - why is it an improvement to move them? If there's no demonstable benefit to moving them, why is it worth making all your users retrain their long established muscle memory? What's in it for them?
If there _are_ demonstrable benefits to these changes - then tell people what they are - demonstrate them - rather than just telling people to shut up. That will cut down on the bickering comments no end.
There's absolutely no data, no testing and no rationale to backup any of these changes. No-one has been able to point me to impirical data, or any user testing to explain why these sweeping changes have been made, because there hasn't been any. Some XU designer thought it looked 'cooler' or 'cleaner' that way, so it got changed - end of story.
I really tried with the left hand title bar buttons - but after a week of 15 years of muscle memory putting my mouse in the wrong place every single time, I just had to change it back. Even if I had got used to it, so what? They're the same buttons in a different place - why is it an improvement to move them? If there's no demonstable benefit to moving them, why is it worth making all your users retrain their long established muscle memory? What's in it for them?
If there _are_ demonstrable benefits to these changes - then tell people what they are - demonstrate them - rather than just telling people to shut up. That will cut down on the bickering comments no end.
> what problem does this solve?
The problem of some UI designer not having anything to do, like as not.
The problem of some UI designer not having anything to do, like as not.
Well, at least they decided to go with the order "close, minimize, maximize" which follows Mac OS X's standard rather than creating a third standard.
I knew this had to happen back when I first saw the mockup screenshots. I am totally happy with the new window controls now. It only took me a week or so to get used to window controls being on the left when I switched from primarily Windows to primarily Mac OS X. People will get used to it eventually.
'People will get used to it eventually.'
I expect you're probably correct. What's the point, though? Why is it better this way? Why should thousands (millions?) of users retrain their muscle memory? What are the benefits to moving these windows controls from one side of the window to the other?
Are there any benefits?
I expect you're probably correct. What's the point, though? Why is it better this way? Why should thousands (millions?) of users retrain their muscle memory? What are the benefits to moving these windows controls from one side of the window to the other?
Are there any benefits?
Next step - keyboard shortcuts! :-)
Application shortcuts remappable from Ctrl+ to Alt+, lake BeOS would be sufficient. Application shortcuts remappable to Super+ would be awesome, then you could do Super+C to copy and Ctrl+C to send kill in the Terminal, Super+H to hide an app window and Ctrl+H to delete char backwards. Ahh…
Headline from here:
http://lwn.net/Articles/381546/
and to move them back:
http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/13535/move-window-buttons-bac...
or
http://lwn.net/Articles/381546/
and to move them back:
http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/13535/move-window-buttons-bac...
or
gconftool-2 --set /apps/metacity/general/button_layout --type string "menu:minimize,maximize,close"Thanks. Seems the (currently leftmost) 'menu' button is gone, and we need that fix to get it back.
I use that button to kick windows to the correct workspace. But it seems a righ-click on the bar also works. One of the things Ubuntu was better at than the Mac ...
The application icon in the button was pleasant too. I also liked a few colorfully distinct icons in the tray/notification area in 8.04, currently drab grey a la MacOS.
I use that button to kick windows to the correct workspace. But it seems a righ-click on the bar also works. One of the things Ubuntu was better at than the Mac ...
The application icon in the button was pleasant too. I also liked a few colorfully distinct icons in the tray/notification area in 8.04, currently drab grey a la MacOS.
I discovered this by accident a few months ago, but for the keyboard lovers, Ctrl+Shift+Alt+[Up/Down/Left/Right arrow] will move the current window to the workspace in that direction.
I ran Linux because I disliked Windows, and then all of the Linux UIs started emulating Windows. Only Windows is now emulating OS X, and now the typical Linux desktop looks like a really old version of Windows.
I blame fvwm95 and everyone who liked it. ;)
Windows has never been Unix-y, OS X is Unix-y and friendly. Steal what's worth having and then invent something totally new.
Ubuntu is on the right track here. I hope they go farther:
-> Make paste Alt-V instead of the current Ctrl-Shift-V. Make close window Alt-W (for Window) instead of Alt-Shift-F3 (or whatever it is). Generally make the keyboard friendly for Terminal users and stop using awkward chorded key combos for things people do every day.
-> Stop wasting space with a toolbar on every window and stick it on top of the screen. (For those who may complain about the position of the Mac toolbar-- remember your Linux desktop probably does -both- a toolbar on top of the screen, -and- a toolbar on every window.)
-> Go from a window-centric model to an application-centric model where I can quickly switch between applications and windows without leaving the keyboard. (i.e. Alt-tab, Alt-~)
I've tried to go back to linux desktop (kde, gnome) and it was a struggle to use, even just to manage emacs, a bunch of terminals, and a web browser. I still like e16.
I don't know what to make of xulrunner (XUL in Mozilla was too magical) but the concept is right. Native C w/ Javascript as the HLL, and wrap older applications in a Canvas... Newer apps would combine Javascript, HTML, and native code. Wrapping application dependencies (clipboard, fullscreen, etc.) in Javascript (where new standards are emerging anyway) would provide incentives for application developers (cross platform, cost savings, no qt versus gtk, web reuse, etc.) Grant you'd still need custom native widgets -and- Javascript lacks a concurrency model. Just a thought.
I blame fvwm95 and everyone who liked it. ;)
Windows has never been Unix-y, OS X is Unix-y and friendly. Steal what's worth having and then invent something totally new.
Ubuntu is on the right track here. I hope they go farther:
-> Make paste Alt-V instead of the current Ctrl-Shift-V. Make close window Alt-W (for Window) instead of Alt-Shift-F3 (or whatever it is). Generally make the keyboard friendly for Terminal users and stop using awkward chorded key combos for things people do every day.
-> Stop wasting space with a toolbar on every window and stick it on top of the screen. (For those who may complain about the position of the Mac toolbar-- remember your Linux desktop probably does -both- a toolbar on top of the screen, -and- a toolbar on every window.)
-> Go from a window-centric model to an application-centric model where I can quickly switch between applications and windows without leaving the keyboard. (i.e. Alt-tab, Alt-~)
I've tried to go back to linux desktop (kde, gnome) and it was a struggle to use, even just to manage emacs, a bunch of terminals, and a web browser. I still like e16.
I don't know what to make of xulrunner (XUL in Mozilla was too magical) but the concept is right. Native C w/ Javascript as the HLL, and wrap older applications in a Canvas... Newer apps would combine Javascript, HTML, and native code. Wrapping application dependencies (clipboard, fullscreen, etc.) in Javascript (where new standards are emerging anyway) would provide incentives for application developers (cross platform, cost savings, no qt versus gtk, web reuse, etc.) Grant you'd still need custom native widgets -and- Javascript lacks a concurrency model. Just a thought.
I have a Mac I use regularly. I have a Ubuntu machine I use constantly, and I have a Windows machine I use when I have to. I love the Mac UI in general, but I've always had a slight preference for the menu buttons on the right. It just makes more sense to me. To close a window, I click on the right-most corner of that window. I read from left to right, closing the window is the last thing I want to do with a window, since by that time, I'm done with it. The buttons on the right mean that the X to close comes last in the order of all of the info/tools in the window chrome. To me, this just makes more sense.
Ehmm. For this thought to make sense, all your windows would have to be text only, one line that you always want to read and doesn't wrap, with no other way to dismiss except the close button, and with your cursor always following along with your eyes.
By your logic, actually, the close button would be best placed in the lower right for any window with several lines of text.
By your logic, actually, the close button would be best placed in the lower right for any window with several lines of text.
Honestly, how difficult would it be to just make it a simple customization option in the Appearance preferences? Left or right orientation.
Everyone's talking about how they went from right to left but few mention that they also removed the "menu" button from the layout.
That's the one that you can click on to make a window "always on top" or "always on visible workspace". I switched to the old layout to get it back.
That's the one that you can click on to make a window "always on top" or "always on visible workspace". I switched to the old layout to get it back.
As ableal said, you can right-click on the title bar to get that menu too.
Does Alt-Space still open the menu?
On 9.10, yes. What do people use that menu for?
Alt+F10 = toggle maximize/restore
Alt+F9 = minimize
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+[Direction] = move window to the workspace in that direction
Hmm, Alt+Space then 'T' toggles Always on Top. LSNED
Alt+F10 = toggle maximize/restore
Alt+F9 = minimize
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+[Direction] = move window to the workspace in that direction
Hmm, Alt+Space then 'T' toggles Always on Top. LSNED
Of course it works on 9.10. We are talking about 10.4.
I use it to move a window to a numbered workspace. The Ctrl-Al-Shift-Arrows moves the windows AND switches the workspace. My use case is restoring my many Chrome browser windows to their proper workspace after restarting.
I use it to move a window to a numbered workspace. The Ctrl-Al-Shift-Arrows moves the windows AND switches the workspace. My use case is restoring my many Chrome browser windows to their proper workspace after restarting.
Of course it works on 9.10. We are talking about 10.4.
I'm posting this from 10.4 Beta 1, where Alt+Space does still work. All they did was change the arrangement.
I use it to move a window to a numbered workspace. The Ctrl-Al-Shift-Arrows moves the windows AND switches the workspace. My use case is restoring my many Chrome browser windows to their proper workspace after restarting.
Good point.
I'm posting this from 10.4 Beta 1, where Alt+Space does still work. All they did was change the arrangement.
I use it to move a window to a numbered workspace. The Ctrl-Al-Shift-Arrows moves the windows AND switches the workspace. My use case is restoring my many Chrome browser windows to their proper workspace after restarting.
Good point.
This change really irritates me, as does the styling changes of the tabs. Enough so that "customize ubuntu" goes from the fun list to the todo list.
Canonical thinks Ubuntu is better than Windows now. Next target to catch up: OS X. This is just the first step towards that goal.
sometimes the most important decision is just to make a decision, and not leave it on the plate.
not hot about the left hand move, but I like that ubuntu is moving towards thinking about the ui, and I rarely use those buttons anyway.
not hot about the left hand move, but I like that ubuntu is moving towards thinking about the ui, and I rarely use those buttons anyway.
I bet you'll find yourself using them a lot more than you used to, particularly when you go to click the leftmost menu bar element.
I very rarely use the file menu either, its hidden on firefox/terminal and emacs, which is 95% of my computer time
I just turned the minimize/maximize/close buttons off completely, since I just use keyboard shortcuts for everything. Chromium uses its own, which is annoying.
April fools?
For the avoidance of doubt, this is not a comment dependent on the date :-)
It should be mentioned that the discussion would be much more productive if there was actually an official stance, a wiki documentation, a blog post, or anything* explaining the reasons for the change.*
I only read the first 80 comments , but I can't find anyone who really finds this to be a good change, and there's yet to be a good explanation offered as to why this would improve anything. Quite simply, what problem does this solve?
1: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/...