Why Xiaomi, Lenovo, and Huawei Can't Compete with Apple(techinasia.com)
techinasia.com
Why Xiaomi, Lenovo, and Huawei Can't Compete with Apple
https://www.techinasia.com/xiaomi-lenovo-huawei-compete-apple
96 comments
Nobody is doing that because it's very complex. You will need a lot of mature open standards or a set of proprietary ones to talk to the devices around you like that. Ironically this already works best within the Apple ecosystem. If you own an iPhone, Mac and Apple TV the integration to hand off calls and stream audio/video around etc is pretty good, while on the open side of things, stuff most of the time kind of works and breaks to often.
The other company that should be able to do this well is Samsung (they make TVs, phones and other consumer electronic items). In reality (and I own a Samsung Smart TV and have owned Galaxys) I felt their software was extremely crappy and I just ended up avoiding it.
Actually I used to work for Samsung, and I've been to their HQ in Suwon, Korea. It's a very corporate corporation, not an engineering corporation. I'd expect someone like HTC or a Chinese competitor to crack this nut first.
> the first mobile device manufacturer to commit to making ad-hoc and mesh networking fully available to developers in a functionally secure fashion will profit immensely
Ironically, Apple did this in iOS 7, and this resulted in chat apps that could work even in the absence of a phone signal (e.g. FireChat, which now works on Android too). I think a big blocker from getting these to work on TVs is that TVs had non-standard OSes. With more TVs running Android, and Apple pushing SDKs for tvOS, I'll be surprised if these apps don't become more popular.
Ironically, Apple did this in iOS 7, and this resulted in chat apps that could work even in the absence of a phone signal (e.g. FireChat, which now works on Android too). I think a big blocker from getting these to work on TVs is that TVs had non-standard OSes. With more TVs running Android, and Apple pushing SDKs for tvOS, I'll be surprised if these apps don't become more popular.
Such devices would be great from the user point of view, but not so great if you want to make money from them. Apple have proven that walled gardens will make you tons of money, while a lot of manufacturers, that provide more open solutions, struggle to survive. It's not so much of a technological problem as that ad-hoc and general purpose computing/networking is notoriously hard to monetize.
You can do that with the internet -- what is the benefit to this, besides from privacy? I can see that aspect in it, but I don't think the business case in that is as big as you are making it.
Every time there's a privacy issue with Facebook, HN is up in arms declaring Facebook dead but the truth of the matter is that most people just don't care.
Every time there's a privacy issue with Facebook, HN is up in arms declaring Facebook dead but the truth of the matter is that most people just don't care.
what is the benefit to this, besides from privacy?
Cost. Developing world people ... they maybe walk to market, maybe visit another village, they don't want to drop huge money on mobile data, which is stupid slow anyway and developers don't care about their use case. With local mesh it's fast enough that things work anyway.
Cost. Developing world people ... they maybe walk to market, maybe visit another village, they don't want to drop huge money on mobile data, which is stupid slow anyway and developers don't care about their use case. With local mesh it's fast enough that things work anyway.
I am using both iOS and Android phones. Both have good and bad points. I am a hacker and sometimes I need Android's customization features. Most of my colleagues prefer Android because of it is hacky nature like me. But the reality is my wife cannot use Android. She had to tweak lots options that she don't ever need. Even my 1.5 years old kid can use iOS more effective than Android because it is much more responsive and well designed. UI is much more consistent that 1.5 years old kid can figure out how to do slide to unlock.
Apple producing hardware and software together and both of them equally important and should be complementary for success. I think that is why they cannot steal customers from Apple.
Apple producing hardware and software together and both of them equally important and should be complementary for success. I think that is why they cannot steal customers from Apple.
My baby has 11 months and can slide to unlock my wife's HTC Android phone. That point was useless, but yeah, Apple users are usually not hackish nor need all the customizations and power user options Android offers (without talking about rooting and custom ROMs world). This is probably similar to Windows/Mac vs Linux discussion, although still my wife has zero technological skills yet uses Ubuntu on her laptop with zero issues. I still think that Apple products are way overpriced but they still sell because of a perfect marketing hype campaign. It is true that Apple really excels at making the right product from existing ideas, but still overpriced, and IMHO highly overrated. It's just not worth the price. I would go for Android/Linux every time even if I didn't need the flexibility they offer.
I don't think you understand why some of us are buying Apple products. I've started with a developer job 15 years ago, I am a pro user (actually I've started programming while I was in the 5th grade, in '94).
I still get a console on Mac and I'm using it every day. What I don't want to do, though, is for me to start working for the computer, I want the computer to work for me. After years and years, I've reached a point where I just want the stuff to work. I still do like tech and I'd rather spend my time on investigating new technologies than tinkering with settings.
For me it's cheaper to buy Apple and get the free time. There's nothing wrong with other choices, though.
I still get a console on Mac and I'm using it every day. What I don't want to do, though, is for me to start working for the computer, I want the computer to work for me. After years and years, I've reached a point where I just want the stuff to work. I still do like tech and I'd rather spend my time on investigating new technologies than tinkering with settings.
For me it's cheaper to buy Apple and get the free time. There's nothing wrong with other choices, though.
I really cannot grasp what you're talking about. I power up my Ubuntu PC at work (I don't know about your Mac, but mine takes like 3-5 seconds to boot, it is 3 years-old and costed less than 1000$) and start working. Right now I have 2 browsers open with ~10 tabs, 3 IntelliJ IDEA instances running, Thunderbird, Skype, 2-3 console instances, at least one VMWare machine running some Windows version, a PostgreSQL GUI client, a couple of SQLite GUI clients, distributed in 4 virtual desktops and using 2 monitors. Everything is running fine and smoothly. And last but not least, I can fine tune everything and anything to my liking. I don't like menus on the top taskbar? Gone. I don't like the desktop manager? Gone. I don't have to abide to whatever someone thought was better for me, because everyone has unique tastes and preferences. But I'm probably missing your point.
>And last but not least, I can fine tune everything and anything to my liking. I don't like menus on the top taskbar? Gone. I don't like the desktop manager? Gone.
This is what you don't get. Apple users don't want to have to do this, so they buy something that fits their desires right off the bat with OS X or iOS.
This is what you don't get. Apple users don't want to have to do this, so they buy something that fits their desires right off the bat with OS X or iOS.
Read again: "if I don't like it I can change it". Note: "if" and "can". I highly doubt millions of people using OSX have the exact same opinions and desires and tastes. This is just like Iranian president saying there ain't no gays in Iran, or Kim Jung-Whatever saying all men should cut their hair like his because that's how hair is supposed to be cut. I've tried OSX and there are a lot of things I don't like, but guess what? I can't change it. I have forced myself too many years into submission on Windows but I'm not going to be forced to use something I don't like or doesn't suit my working habits anymore just because some overrated guru said so. I surely can try it for a while to see if it is really better that way but if I still don't like it, I want to be able to change it. And this is what I'm talking about: freedom. Freedom to choose to change it or not. This is what you don't get.
Most of the Ubuntu users I know use the default settings and like them, including me.
For me, Ubuntu just works. Even installing apps is a breeze. And I can keep updating the system (I have done it since 2012) and my stuff still works, so even updating the system is easier.
I do prefer it over the Windows desktop for just about everything.
For me, Ubuntu just works. Even installing apps is a breeze. And I can keep updating the system (I have done it since 2012) and my stuff still works, so even updating the system is easier.
I do prefer it over the Windows desktop for just about everything.
Does it hold good while updating to new OS on an old Mac book pro. The last 2 OS updates made my mac book very slow. I had to tinker some setting to bring it up some respectable performance. I used to do those on Ubuntu. Now Ubuntu is just install and use mostly. But i couldn't get the touch working properly on Ubuntu else it would have been default OS on mac book pro.
> For me it's cheaper to buy Apple and get the free time.
That is a fallacy - the availability of choice does not imply the need to choose. If you're happy with the defaults on Ubuntu/Debian/Arch/Fedora/RH/etc you can just refrain from customising anything, just like you would on OSX or Windows. If, on the other hand, you feel the need - for whatever reason - to change something you're likely to have an easier time on those Linux distributions that you'd have on OSX or Windows. In the former case the choice is rarely more than an apt-get (or other package manager) invocation away. On OSX and Windows you're likely to have to resort to external suppliers - adding expense, hassle and yet-another-license-to-keep-track-of.
That is a fallacy - the availability of choice does not imply the need to choose. If you're happy with the defaults on Ubuntu/Debian/Arch/Fedora/RH/etc you can just refrain from customising anything, just like you would on OSX or Windows. If, on the other hand, you feel the need - for whatever reason - to change something you're likely to have an easier time on those Linux distributions that you'd have on OSX or Windows. In the former case the choice is rarely more than an apt-get (or other package manager) invocation away. On OSX and Windows you're likely to have to resort to external suppliers - adding expense, hassle and yet-another-license-to-keep-track-of.
Why do you think they are "overpriced"? Is this generally or merely a personal opinion? What is it based on?
On (drumroll....) the fact that the average price-to-own for an iOS device is about double that of an Android device? On the fact that 128GB of memory for an Android device costs (in local - Swedish - currency, but the importance here is the relation between the prices) 400 kr compared to the ~3000 kr price difference between a 16GB and 128GB iPhone 6s? That a 'flagship' Android device will cost anywhere from 1/3 to 2/3 of the price of the current 'flagship' iOS device? That those Android devices come equipped with micro-USB ports so they can connect to the-world-and-its-brother while those iOS devices nowadays sport 'lightning' ports which require special (and, need I say, rather expensive) cables? That you can develop software for Android on whatever system you prefer, while developing for iOS means you need to buy into OSX and use Xcode? That apple only offers a limited spectrum of devices, none of which can be termed as 'affordable' compared to the plethora of Android devices?
That a 'flagship' Android device will cost anywhere from 1/3 to 2/3 of the price of the current 'flagship' iOS device?
I'm sorry but that is simply not true in Sweden. The highest end Android phones costs essentially the same as an iPhone, especially if you are 'buying' one on a contract.
Can you buy a pretty damn good Android phone for 1/3 to 2/3 of the price of an iOS phone that will hold their own? Absolutely, but that is hardly the same thing.
I'm sorry but that is simply not true in Sweden. The highest end Android phones costs essentially the same as an iPhone, especially if you are 'buying' one on a contract.
Can you buy a pretty damn good Android phone for 1/3 to 2/3 of the price of an iOS phone that will hold their own? Absolutely, but that is hardly the same thing.
Highest end Android phones have usually better hardware than iPhones, and also they have their prices bloated just to look "luxury" like the iPhone.
Define better. I assume it doesn't involve the word faster or powerful
Orly?
Galaxy S6 vs iPhone 6S
- CPU: Octa-core 64-bit 2.1 GHz vs Dual-core 64-bit 1.85 GHz
- RAM: 3 GB vs 2 GB
- Weight: 138 g vs 143 g
- Battery: 2,550 mAh vs 1715 mAh
- Display: 5.1" Quad HD Super AMOLED 2560×1440 577 ppi vs 4.7" Retina HD IPS LCD 1334 × 750 326 ppi
- Rear camera: 16 MP vs 12 MP
- Front camera: 5 MP vs 5 MP
Galaxy S6 vs iPhone 6S
- CPU: Octa-core 64-bit 2.1 GHz vs Dual-core 64-bit 1.85 GHz
- RAM: 3 GB vs 2 GB
- Weight: 138 g vs 143 g
- Battery: 2,550 mAh vs 1715 mAh
- Display: 5.1" Quad HD Super AMOLED 2560×1440 577 ppi vs 4.7" Retina HD IPS LCD 1334 × 750 326 ppi
- Rear camera: 16 MP vs 12 MP
- Front camera: 5 MP vs 5 MP
That doesn't necessarily mean better! It about the hole package. See http://simpsons.wikia.com/wiki/The_Homer
I just checked on http://prisjakt.nu and got a the following prices:
Samsung Galaxy S6 128GB ~6300 kr
Samsung S6 Edge 128GB ~6900 kr
Google Nexus 6P 128GB ~7400 kr
Apple iPhone 6s Plus 128GB ~10.000 kr
Samsung Galaxy S6 128GB ~6300 kr
Samsung S6 Edge 128GB ~6900 kr
Google Nexus 6P 128GB ~7400 kr
Apple iPhone 6s Plus 128GB ~10.000 kr
Granted, Apple does for some reason charge a lot more for storage than the other brands, but if you look at the 16-32GB phones the difference basically disappears.
Based on the price of the hardware. I remember purchasing Mac OS X Snow Leopard for 20$, I don't even count that in.
On the "slide to unlock" thing: I noticed it became very difficult for young kids to slide to unlock iPhones and iPads after iOS 7 was released.
I remember my 10 month old just intuitively sliding the iOS 6 unlock slider. The inset sliding "tray" and obvious button made it extremely clear. When iOS 7 was released it was as if my child suddenly regressed, and it took quite some time for him to get familiar with the new slide to unlock. (Even now that he's much older he sometimes doesn't slide it all the way and the lock screen bounces back into place — because there is no obvious stopping point.)
It was such a shame that the old slide-to-unlock was lost in the aesthetic transition. The original iPhone introduced one of the most immediately obvious user interfaces I'd ever seen.
I remember my 10 month old just intuitively sliding the iOS 6 unlock slider. The inset sliding "tray" and obvious button made it extremely clear. When iOS 7 was released it was as if my child suddenly regressed, and it took quite some time for him to get familiar with the new slide to unlock. (Even now that he's much older he sometimes doesn't slide it all the way and the lock screen bounces back into place — because there is no obvious stopping point.)
It was such a shame that the old slide-to-unlock was lost in the aesthetic transition. The original iPhone introduced one of the most immediately obvious user interfaces I'd ever seen.
> The original iPhone introduced one of the most immediately obvious user interfaces I'd ever seen.
No, that would have been Neonode with the N1, about 2 years before the first iPhone:
http://www.geek.com/apple/apples-slide-to-unlock-patent-inva...
...but I tend to think that 'slide to unlock' was 'invented' a bit earlier, probably around the time the Sumerians felt the urge to lock their doors to keep out nosy neighbours and keep in wily camels.
No, that would have been Neonode with the N1, about 2 years before the first iPhone:
http://www.geek.com/apple/apples-slide-to-unlock-patent-inva...
...but I tend to think that 'slide to unlock' was 'invented' a bit earlier, probably around the time the Sumerians felt the urge to lock their doors to keep out nosy neighbours and keep in wily camels.
That would be referring to this? http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/304/media/images/61357000/jpg/_...
Sorry but no. That's visually like the iOS 7 implementation which is so hard to use. The exact one I complained about.
There's far more to a good UI than just the basic idea — even the requirement of the iPhone's 60 FPS prioritised animation rendering and good finger tracking helped make that digital representation so intuitive.
Also the recovery animations (what happens when you don't finish the slide), the ability to slide back and forth with tracking (e.g., in that Neonode screenshot it says "swipe" indicating a single gesture, not a continuous one). And how the screen transitions from completed slide to home screen. These are important details that you have completely overlooked in your claim.
I even mentioned the important element of the visual "track" in which the button slides as part of the key features, which is nowhere to be found in the images I saw for Neonode. Apple even used a text-sheen animation in the direction of the slide to visually hint at the direction, that required masking an animated gradient into text back on the original iPhone hardware.
Obviously sliding mechanisms existed in physical reality prior to iPhone. I'm not sure why that's relevant as it's part of what makes the digital version intuitive.
Apple introduced this interface. The Neonode one is not even in the same universe of usability, design or details.
Sorry but no. That's visually like the iOS 7 implementation which is so hard to use. The exact one I complained about.
There's far more to a good UI than just the basic idea — even the requirement of the iPhone's 60 FPS prioritised animation rendering and good finger tracking helped make that digital representation so intuitive.
Also the recovery animations (what happens when you don't finish the slide), the ability to slide back and forth with tracking (e.g., in that Neonode screenshot it says "swipe" indicating a single gesture, not a continuous one). And how the screen transitions from completed slide to home screen. These are important details that you have completely overlooked in your claim.
I even mentioned the important element of the visual "track" in which the button slides as part of the key features, which is nowhere to be found in the images I saw for Neonode. Apple even used a text-sheen animation in the direction of the slide to visually hint at the direction, that required masking an animated gradient into text back on the original iPhone hardware.
Obviously sliding mechanisms existed in physical reality prior to iPhone. I'm not sure why that's relevant as it's part of what makes the digital version intuitive.
Apple introduced this interface. The Neonode one is not even in the same universe of usability, design or details.
My 60 years dad uses Android effectively. Maybe Android was hacky years ago. Material UI is very good.
Errr.... not to rain on your apple-pie-party, but this 'apple is more consistent' and 'apple is much more responsive' and 'apple is (insert expletive)' has not been true for a rather long time. The 'responsive' bit faded out around Android 4.x, the consistency-bit got really upturned - as in iOS lacking consistency - when apple hooked up with the flat UI trend. I have yet to see anyone having problems with unlocking Android devices, whether they use a simulated bar lock ('slide to unlock'), a pattern lock or one of those 'slide to unlock/start_camera/silence/start_browser/...' things. This includes my own children (11 and 4) who are by now used to both Android (at home) and iOS (at school).
If you put the two systems next to each other you'll notice they both have their idiosyncrasies. Both are, in general terms, rather easy to use. Android is more flexible - which could be interpreted by some as 'lacking consistency' due to the fact that two Android devices can look quite dissimilar - and has fewer problems with crashing apps. Apple integrates well in an all-apple household but it lacks the freedom of choice which Android offers.
As to the supposed inability of the mentioned manufacturers to 'steal [?] customers from apple' I'd say you might be in for a surprise. Customer loyalty is not an absolute, show them enough of a carrot (lower price, better integration with non-apple systems and services) or harass them enough with a stick (itunes! itunes! itunes! apple cloud! no 'unauthorised' repairs! did I mention itunes?) and they'll just hop over to the next track.
If you put the two systems next to each other you'll notice they both have their idiosyncrasies. Both are, in general terms, rather easy to use. Android is more flexible - which could be interpreted by some as 'lacking consistency' due to the fact that two Android devices can look quite dissimilar - and has fewer problems with crashing apps. Apple integrates well in an all-apple household but it lacks the freedom of choice which Android offers.
As to the supposed inability of the mentioned manufacturers to 'steal [?] customers from apple' I'd say you might be in for a surprise. Customer loyalty is not an absolute, show them enough of a carrot (lower price, better integration with non-apple systems and services) or harass them enough with a stick (itunes! itunes! itunes! apple cloud! no 'unauthorised' repairs! did I mention itunes?) and they'll just hop over to the next track.
>So yes, Chinese handset makers did quite well in 2015. But >can they climb that cliff? Could they actually beat out Apple?
>No. At least not in the sense of eating into Apple’s >specific chunk of the market.
>They may be able to boost their numbers by picking up more >users in developing regions, but none of the three is >likely poaching any of Apple’s market anytime soon.
The author must change the title. why have it different to what is written in the article. None of these handset makers compete with Apple.
@author Rolls-Royce, Aston martin do not compete with Fiesta. Thanks
>They may be able to boost their numbers by picking up more >users in developing regions, but none of the three is >likely poaching any of Apple’s market anytime soon.
The author must change the title. why have it different to what is written in the article. None of these handset makers compete with Apple.
@author Rolls-Royce, Aston martin do not compete with Fiesta. Thanks
I don't know what gives you that idea. Huawei is like a Ford of chinese phones. Just because they have a fiesta doesn't mean they don't also compete with rolls royce at their highest end.
I think the article is giberish because of the marketing feel good about ourselves nonsense: Picture a person who wears a kravat, not sure what a kravat is? See! Apple wont lose their shirt by being unable to compete with the 4 times larger Android marketplace and whatever circuses it spins off. Those markets will be dominated by players like Huawei and will inevitably be putting compatibility pressure on Apple's 20% over time.
Also, Rolls Royce is a little footnote in a more successful company with a larger demographic today which is itself not all that great. That Apple still will have fans is more likely to get them to jump in that shrinking hole of past prestige based pricing like they did for the 1990s.
I think the article is giberish because of the marketing feel good about ourselves nonsense: Picture a person who wears a kravat, not sure what a kravat is? See! Apple wont lose their shirt by being unable to compete with the 4 times larger Android marketplace and whatever circuses it spins off. Those markets will be dominated by players like Huawei and will inevitably be putting compatibility pressure on Apple's 20% over time.
Also, Rolls Royce is a little footnote in a more successful company with a larger demographic today which is itself not all that great. That Apple still will have fans is more likely to get them to jump in that shrinking hole of past prestige based pricing like they did for the 1990s.
Rolls Royce is now owned by BMW. If you're calling BMW "not all that great", I wonder what your standards are :)
Market share.
Meaningless. As proven by iOS.
Ah, the threat to iOS is a non-threat because they are immune to their market's Ford Fiesta like Rolls Royce, which was bought out by BMW for lack of marketshare, which is pushing Mini hard for to get back into a larger marketshare before they are out scaled. But all of that is a mistake because BMW is like iOs and iOs proves that dwindling marketshare in a maturing market is irrelevant, like it was for MacOS.
I must be immortal since everyone who is like me has successfully cheated death, and they are immortal because they are like me. :)
I must be immortal since everyone who is like me has successfully cheated death, and they are immortal because they are like me. :)
> Quick, picture an iPhone user. You’re probably picturing somebody young-ish, urban. Somebody who likes a simple user experience that doesn’t change much from model to model. Somebody who admires good industrial design, and who has the money to fit a $600-$800 phone into their budget.
iPhone are so mainstream, so isn't so clear cut anymore.
iPhone are so mainstream, so isn't so clear cut anymore.
> Quick, picture an iPhone user. You’re probably picturing somebody young-ish, urban. Somebody who likes a simple user experience that doesn’t change much from model to model. Somebody who admires good industrial design, and who has the money to fit a $600-$800 phone into their budget.
More like the author pictures that. Maybe because that's how he would like to be projected, through his own iPhone-ownership?
I picture my grandma who would be confused by a more advanced and sophisticated interface and a device capable of true multitasking.
Also my boss, who needs help setting up video-mirroring in the conference room, every single time. Basically, when I think iPhone-owner, I think unsophisticated and technically inept.
But I'm willing to admit that this is my projection and I'm not going to be naive enough to assume this is how it's generally for everyone else. For instance every developer I know has Android, but again I'm not going to draw any general conclusion based on my limited data-sets.
More like the author pictures that. Maybe because that's how he would like to be projected, through his own iPhone-ownership?
I picture my grandma who would be confused by a more advanced and sophisticated interface and a device capable of true multitasking.
Also my boss, who needs help setting up video-mirroring in the conference room, every single time. Basically, when I think iPhone-owner, I think unsophisticated and technically inept.
But I'm willing to admit that this is my projection and I'm not going to be naive enough to assume this is how it's generally for everyone else. For instance every developer I know has Android, but again I'm not going to draw any general conclusion based on my limited data-sets.
(I can't believe we're still having this conversation but...)
My take on it is this:
With Linux, Windows and Android, when something goes wrong, you may be able to fix it.
For example, my wife's HTC One M8 received an OTA update that bricked it. I googled it, and started trying to fix it. 8 hours later it's still bricked, but I've found a couple more articles that I will try next.
The same happens when I use a Linux box and it goes wrong. Or a Windows box and it goes wrong.
When a Mac goes wrong, I generally spend no more than an hour trying to fix it. Either it works or I run out of options.
When an iOS device goes wrong, I generally spend about ten minutes trying to fix it. Google a solution, it either works or it runs out of options.
To some people, the Android situation is preferable - I can fix it myself and it's a problem I want to solve. So I'm happy to spend the time looking into it.
Personally, I spend all my working day fixing technical problems. I don't want to spend any more time chasing solutions. I'm actually grateful to iOS for giving me a binary yes/no answer within minutes.
My take on it is this:
With Linux, Windows and Android, when something goes wrong, you may be able to fix it.
For example, my wife's HTC One M8 received an OTA update that bricked it. I googled it, and started trying to fix it. 8 hours later it's still bricked, but I've found a couple more articles that I will try next.
The same happens when I use a Linux box and it goes wrong. Or a Windows box and it goes wrong.
When a Mac goes wrong, I generally spend no more than an hour trying to fix it. Either it works or I run out of options.
When an iOS device goes wrong, I generally spend about ten minutes trying to fix it. Google a solution, it either works or it runs out of options.
To some people, the Android situation is preferable - I can fix it myself and it's a problem I want to solve. So I'm happy to spend the time looking into it.
Personally, I spend all my working day fixing technical problems. I don't want to spend any more time chasing solutions. I'm actually grateful to iOS for giving me a binary yes/no answer within minutes.
> When an iOS device goes wrong, I generally spend about ten minutes trying to fix it. Google a solution, it either works or it runs out of options.
If my iPhone was bricked by a software update and I couldn't fix it, I'd simply take it to one of the many nearby Apple Stores, and (going by previous experience), they'd fix it or replace it without fuss.
Try taking your HTC One M8 back to Carphone Warehouse if you ever get in trouble. I'd be interested to see how their service compares.
If my iPhone was bricked by a software update and I couldn't fix it, I'd simply take it to one of the many nearby Apple Stores, and (going by previous experience), they'd fix it or replace it without fuss.
Try taking your HTC One M8 back to Carphone Warehouse if you ever get in trouble. I'd be interested to see how their service compares.
> "... I'd simply take it to one of the many nearby Apple Stores, ..."
Which hooks up quite well with the aformentioned image of apple being more of an urban phenomenon. The only apple stores around here sell apples - and other fruit. The 'nearest apple store' would be about 70 km to the south, I guess.
In contrast, the USB port on my laptop is about half a meter away from me. Fixing an Android device would take me a few minutes - flash, reboot, restore backup. Having an iOS device fixed would take a significant part of a day, if not longer.
In other words, if you a) live in an urbanised area which b) sports apple stores you might be able to get your problems fixed. If you live elsewhere you'll be better off fixing those problems yourself - assuming you have the technical aptitude needed to do so.
Which hooks up quite well with the aformentioned image of apple being more of an urban phenomenon. The only apple stores around here sell apples - and other fruit. The 'nearest apple store' would be about 70 km to the south, I guess.
In contrast, the USB port on my laptop is about half a meter away from me. Fixing an Android device would take me a few minutes - flash, reboot, restore backup. Having an iOS device fixed would take a significant part of a day, if not longer.
In other words, if you a) live in an urbanised area which b) sports apple stores you might be able to get your problems fixed. If you live elsewhere you'll be better off fixing those problems yourself - assuming you have the technical aptitude needed to do so.
I hear what you're saying about Apple stores being focussed in urban areas.
Regarding problems that can be resolved by flashing the device, the same solution can be applied to iPhones BTW.
Regarding problems that can be resolved by flashing the device, the same solution can be applied to iPhones BTW.
Note everyone is missing the point of my post (and I'll have to accept blame for that), but still...
> Try taking your HTC One M8 back to Carphone Warehouse if you ever get in trouble. I'd be interested to see how their service compares.
I'd just load it up with fastboot and reflash the firmware image. No need to go to a store of any kind. 5 minutes and done :)
> Try taking your HTC One M8 back to Carphone Warehouse if you ever get in trouble. I'd be interested to see how their service compares.
I'd just load it up with fastboot and reflash the firmware image. No need to go to a store of any kind. 5 minutes and done :)
And I'm 8 hours in to that process. Not 5 minutes. I've learnt a load of stuff I never knew about Android in the process, but the facts are it still doesn't work and I've wasted several hours.
And yes that's my fault. I probably started out by doing the wrong things and wasting a load of time. But I'm not stupid, I just didn't know where to begin.
And yes that's my fault. I probably started out by doing the wrong things and wasting a load of time. But I'm not stupid, I just didn't know where to begin.
My point, was that I am not stupid enough to assume the rest of the world has to be exactly like my immediate surroundings. Unlike author of the article submitted here.
It's a very weak base for an article.
It's a very weak base for an article.
Thankfully I can understand what you said. Because I have recently flashed my S2 with custom Lollipop ROM.
> (I can't believe we're still having this conversation but...)
Like I finished my comment with: This is how I see things. But I'm not going to assume that applies to everyone everywhere, like the author of the linked article does. My comment was meant as a contrasting view just to illustrate how wrong broad generalizations like the author made can go.
Anyway, bad generalizations are bad generalizations no matter who makes them and no matter what they are about. The plural of anecdote is not data. Etc etc.
But if people instead wish to discuss how I see things and how those views are somewhat wrong... They should be free to do so, even though they're obviously also going to be doing the exact same "mistakes" they accuse me of.
Like I finished my comment with: This is how I see things. But I'm not going to assume that applies to everyone everywhere, like the author of the linked article does. My comment was meant as a contrasting view just to illustrate how wrong broad generalizations like the author made can go.
Anyway, bad generalizations are bad generalizations no matter who makes them and no matter what they are about. The plural of anecdote is not data. Etc etc.
But if people instead wish to discuss how I see things and how those views are somewhat wrong... They should be free to do so, even though they're obviously also going to be doing the exact same "mistakes" they accuse me of.
> For instance every developer I know has Android, but again I'm not going to draw any general conclusion based on my limited data-sets.
I have the opposite experience. Every developer I know, and most people pursuing computer science, are big iOS / OS X users. The only developer I know who has chosen Android based his decision on the lower price. He says he prefers the technical underpinnings of iOS, but just doesn't want to spend so much on a phone. He owns an iPad and MBP.
There's a lot of hidden tech stuff in iOS, little things like the fact that Emacs hotkeys work in iOS text fields. I generally regard the iOS SDKs (Core Graphics/Text/Audio/Image/Media, UIKit, and so on) as more capable than what's available on Android. Though Android seems to be getting better all the time, and I don't develop for it that much anymore so can't make a good comparison.
I recall some developers being swayed by Apple's initial heavy contributions to LLVM way back, and more recently by Swift — a lot of the programming purists at my workplace felt that Apple had done something right with that language.
Most of the technically inept people I know use iPhones; but most of the computer science academics and professional developers I know use them too. They just appreciate different things.
I have the opposite experience. Every developer I know, and most people pursuing computer science, are big iOS / OS X users. The only developer I know who has chosen Android based his decision on the lower price. He says he prefers the technical underpinnings of iOS, but just doesn't want to spend so much on a phone. He owns an iPad and MBP.
There's a lot of hidden tech stuff in iOS, little things like the fact that Emacs hotkeys work in iOS text fields. I generally regard the iOS SDKs (Core Graphics/Text/Audio/Image/Media, UIKit, and so on) as more capable than what's available on Android. Though Android seems to be getting better all the time, and I don't develop for it that much anymore so can't make a good comparison.
I recall some developers being swayed by Apple's initial heavy contributions to LLVM way back, and more recently by Swift — a lot of the programming purists at my workplace felt that Apple had done something right with that language.
Most of the technically inept people I know use iPhones; but most of the computer science academics and professional developers I know use them too. They just appreciate different things.
It probably has nothing to do with technical capabilities, but more like productivity. For people who have lots of time and don't mind fighting around with problems, nonworking settings, slow/varying FPS, corrupted official OS updates, malware etc. Android might be a better choice but other than that it's really hard to image any rational person taking Android over iOS. Especially considering that the security level of iOS is on a completely another level when compared to Android.
It's almost the same thing why these days almost all developers and companies prefer OS X. Because it's the only one that gets the job done without unnecessary and non billable issues and still has awesome software support.
It's almost the same thing why these days almost all developers and companies prefer OS X. Because it's the only one that gets the job done without unnecessary and non billable issues and still has awesome software support.
> Android might be a better choice but other than that it's really hard to image any rational person taking Android over iOS.
Assuming you can afford it, not everyone lives with US salaries and subsidized phones.
Assuming you can afford it, not everyone lives with US salaries and subsidized phones.
> It's almost the same thing why these days almost all developers and companies prefer OS X.
Patent nonsense. Most companies prefer Windows, and the bigger the company, the more likely it is to be a Windows shop - because Windows offers plenty of business-friendly options. OSX is far from "getting the job done" at an enterprise level. And on the server side, OSX is nowhere to be seen; it's all other unixes and windows.
I'm not a fan of Windows, but it's absolutely ludicrous to say that companies prefer OSX. Small companies in certain fields do, but it's still a Windows market.
Patent nonsense. Most companies prefer Windows, and the bigger the company, the more likely it is to be a Windows shop - because Windows offers plenty of business-friendly options. OSX is far from "getting the job done" at an enterprise level. And on the server side, OSX is nowhere to be seen; it's all other unixes and windows.
I'm not a fan of Windows, but it's absolutely ludicrous to say that companies prefer OSX. Small companies in certain fields do, but it's still a Windows market.
This.
There is some sens of "entitlement" and superiority that comes with the turf of using an Apple product, I get that feeling every-time someone starts talking to me about their Apple device.
There is some sens of "entitlement" and superiority that comes with the turf of using an Apple product, I get that feeling every-time someone starts talking to me about their Apple device.
Confused by true multitasking?
I picture an iPhone user who's discerning enough to understand the engineering trade offs, and prefers multitasking to be tightly controlled and specialised as it is in iOS.
I remember when Android users proudly touted Android's support for Flash. I think we've all since learnt why Apple made the decision to drop Flash. A mobile phone is a battery-constrained device. I want a device that's optimised for its constraints, even if that means developers get fewer toys to play with.
I picture an iPhone user who's discerning enough to understand the engineering trade offs, and prefers multitasking to be tightly controlled and specialised as it is in iOS.
I remember when Android users proudly touted Android's support for Flash. I think we've all since learnt why Apple made the decision to drop Flash. A mobile phone is a battery-constrained device. I want a device that's optimised for its constraints, even if that means developers get fewer toys to play with.
> iPhone are so mainstream, so isn't so clear cut anymore.
No on countries where 500 euros is around the average salary and consumers have to pay full price for their devices.
No on countries where 500 euros is around the average salary and consumers have to pay full price for their devices.
I live in Ukraine and I can confirm this. iPhone here is a thing of luxury and status. Funny how people here can spend their entire monthly income on a dated iPhone 6/5s because it's an item of status and they want it so badly.
Chinese smartphones here are dominating the market though. They're pretty much everywhere these days.
Chinese smartphones here are dominating the market though. They're pretty much everywhere these days.
>No on countries where 500 euros is around the average salary and consumers have to pay full price for their devices.
Point taken.
I guess I am guilty of having another cultural bias; I assumed pretty much everyone is getting their mobile device through a 24 month+ contract with their network. At least this is how I got my first mobile phone, over 15 years ago.
Point taken.
I guess I am guilty of having another cultural bias; I assumed pretty much everyone is getting their mobile device through a 24 month+ contract with their network. At least this is how I got my first mobile phone, over 15 years ago.
Yeah, in some countries, pre-paid is the rule, not the exception. I pay $12/month for 500 minutes/SMSs plus 200MB, so the total after 24 months is less than $300 - kinda hard to bundle an iPhone with that amount :)
Exactly, at least here in Germany iPhone users are just as 'all over the place' as Android users, if you really want to stand out from the crowd you need to get a Windows Phone ;)
On a side note, apple got 17.0.0.0/8, only a handful of companies can compete with that.
Is there actually anything interesting they do with that address range that they couldn't do with say 65k of IPs (like other companies might get)?
What makes Apple's Push Notification service special?
Simplicity is actually the opposite of unsophisticated.
For example nearly every developer I know uses a Macbook Pro - they aren't "technically inept" (that's quite arrogant btw), they are just more interested in getting stuff done as opposed to spending 10 hours setting up a Linux distro no one has heard of just to make themselves feel l33t...
For example nearly every developer I know uses a Macbook Pro - they aren't "technically inept" (that's quite arrogant btw), they are just more interested in getting stuff done as opposed to spending 10 hours setting up a Linux distro no one has heard of just to make themselves feel l33t...
This is the sort of dismissive comment that produces embarrassing flamewars like the below. If you're going to post about something tribal, please edit out snark like "just to make themselves feel l33t". And please don't escalate when someone takes what you said the wrong way.
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11102696 and marked it off-topic.
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11102696 and marked it off-topic.
[deleted]
The fact that you're blaming me for sticking up for people who are dismissed as inferior due to the tech the use, and after reading the comment chain, speaks volumes about the kind of people who frequent this site, and the kind of person you are too. Could you just ban this account please
What, every developer? You really live in a bubble - get out and meet more.
> just to make themselves feel l33t.
Yeah, because there's absolutely no status signalling with Apple products.
Edit: parent comment has since been altered.
> just to make themselves feel l33t.
Yeah, because there's absolutely no status signalling with Apple products.
Edit: parent comment has since been altered.
> What, every developer? You really live in a bubble - get out and meet more.
Not all of them run OS X, but yep - the devices are reliable, last for a very long time and do the job well.
> Yeah, because there's absolutely no status signalling with Apple products.
Most people I know with iPhones are just regular people. I used to be an Android user (and will never hate on it) but most Western tech people with them are like the poster above - smug with an unfounded sense of superiority.
Not all of them run OS X, but yep - the devices are reliable, last for a very long time and do the job well.
> Yeah, because there's absolutely no status signalling with Apple products.
Most people I know with iPhones are just regular people. I used to be an Android user (and will never hate on it) but most Western tech people with them are like the poster above - smug with an unfounded sense of superiority.
Keep on changing your tune. Every developer you know uses a macbook pro because they don't want to set up a linux distro, but not all of those macbook pros are running OSX? What are the non-OSX macbook pros running? ^BSD? Just as much fiddling as linux. Windows? Now that is a rare creature.
> most [broad demographic] are [negative attribute]
Sure they are. At least the GP openly recognises that they might be projecting.
> most [broad demographic] are [negative attribute]
Sure they are. At least the GP openly recognises that they might be projecting.
> Keep on changing your tune. Every developer you know uses a macbook pro because they don't want to set up a linux distro, but not all of those macbook pros are running OSX?
That's reaching - you know full well I wasn't talking about distros like Ubuntu, hence the 'no one has heard of' part.
> Sure they are. At least the GP openly recognises that they might be projecting.
Projecting their l33tness, which literally no one cares about or wants to here. Simplicity is better, there is nothing inferior about something being simple.
That's reaching - you know full well I wasn't talking about distros like Ubuntu, hence the 'no one has heard of' part.
> Sure they are. At least the GP openly recognises that they might be projecting.
Projecting their l33tness, which literally no one cares about or wants to here. Simplicity is better, there is nothing inferior about something being simple.
> Projecting their l33tness, which literally no one cares about or wants to here.
On the contrary: I showed that the original author of the submission was projecting the main premesis of his article.
And I showed how subjective projection is absolutely meaningless at any scale above yourself, by sharing my own projection of the same thing.
Basically how this was an utter rubbish article.
I think it was quite successful and absolutely demonstrated my point beyond my wildest expectations.
On the contrary: I showed that the original author of the submission was projecting the main premesis of his article.
And I showed how subjective projection is absolutely meaningless at any scale above yourself, by sharing my own projection of the same thing.
Basically how this was an utter rubbish article.
I think it was quite successful and absolutely demonstrated my point beyond my wildest expectations.
Yeah, you know why? Because developer is the new cool, and you can't be cool enough without an Apple logo. People that really don't care about cool don't use Apple, e.g. Stallman, Linus. One really good dev I knew for a couple of days (he was a customer of ours) had to use a Mac because of company policy, he just put installed a Linux on it and put a sticker over the Apple logo.
And I did spend 10 hours to set up a Linux distro because I cared actually learn something about how an OS worked. Then I made my own just for the fun. Now most Linux distros install and work flawlessly in 10 minutes. I use Ubuntu at work and I don't have any major complaint in over 3 years: it has all UNIX tools a REAL developer needs (no need to install Macports or whatever for really basic tools) and even if you need anything is as simple as apt-get install (and this since I started using Linux back in 2002). When online stores first appeared (e.g. Apple Store) all people were amazed, and we Linux users were "meh".
And developers can be technically inept. I know a lot of those that don't even know how a network or an OS works, because they don't care. From my experience, and generally speaking, those are the kind of unhackish devs that use Mac.
diezge(1)
cbeach(4)
Now, I'm no lawyer and I'm not interested in digging through Google's Android licensing fortress, but even if there are issues there, if there's a place in the world where a company can make the requisite API extensions happen and have them reach a mass-market product regardless of legality, it's China. That company will win the developing world low end smartphone segment, because cellular data simply doesn't exist in an affordable, user friendly and decent performance manner for most of the developing world's population.
It will bring a return of SMTP/UUCP-style store and forward. It may be the apple in the developing world's eye.
Closest thing out there right now seems to be http://developer.servalproject.org/dokuwiki/doku.php