Chinese hackers are arrested at the behest of the U.S. government(washingtonpost.com)
washingtonpost.com
Chinese hackers are arrested at the behest of the U.S. government
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/in-a-first-chinese-hackers-are-arrested-at-the-behest-of-the-us-government/2015/10/09/0a7b0e46-6778-11e5-8325-a42b5a459b1e_story.html
9 comments
Money talks, and China's in serious trouble and it desperately needs to cooperate with US. That's why the Chinese president came to US to resolve issues with cyberhacking.
- $141.66bn capital left China in August http://bit.ly/1jh7E7z
- "by 2018 all of China's excess reserves — cash that it has on hand to use immediately — could be gone." http://read.bi/1jkK6hv
- "actual Chinese GDP is probably a third lower than is officially reported" http://bit.ly/1JsjaC0
- "The exodus of factories moving out of China in search of lower-cost options in southeast and central Asia is accelerating, as manufacturers face increased pressure to reduce unit costs." http://bit.ly/1hw8Zp3
- "average new home prices in China’s 70 major cities dropped 6.1 per cent" http://bit.ly/1jh9eGp
- "Total debt has reached 282 percent of GDP" http://bloom.bg/1evYSQ5
- $141.66bn capital left China in August http://bit.ly/1jh7E7z
- "by 2018 all of China's excess reserves — cash that it has on hand to use immediately — could be gone." http://read.bi/1jkK6hv
- "actual Chinese GDP is probably a third lower than is officially reported" http://bit.ly/1JsjaC0
- "The exodus of factories moving out of China in search of lower-cost options in southeast and central Asia is accelerating, as manufacturers face increased pressure to reduce unit costs." http://bit.ly/1hw8Zp3
- "average new home prices in China’s 70 major cities dropped 6.1 per cent" http://bit.ly/1jh9eGp
- "Total debt has reached 282 percent of GDP" http://bloom.bg/1evYSQ5
That the Chinese government likely over-estimates GDP is widely known (some indicators are reported magnitudes faster than any other country). The increased debt and factory exodus are probably uniformly bad.
On the other hand, a decrease in cash reserves is almost certainly in China's favor. The government has been struggling for years to get rid of its enormous US currency holdings. Especially as we start to see the yuan strengthening and the Fed raise interest rates, it's important for China to extract as much value out of the USD as soon as possible.
On the other hand, a decrease in cash reserves is almost certainly in China's favor. The government has been struggling for years to get rid of its enormous US currency holdings. Especially as we start to see the yuan strengthening and the Fed raise interest rates, it's important for China to extract as much value out of the USD as soon as possible.
1.) Dollar is strengthening. Janet Yellen said she'll raise rates by the end of the year. Most emerging market currencies have crashed 25-40% this year.
2.) Yuan is weakening. Otherwise Chinese corporate dollar-denominated debts, which is around 1 trillion, will crush the economy right away when the fed raises rates. Plus the government already signaled it is willing to guide yuan lower a month ago.
3.) That's kinda like saying 'well, my 3 houses in the hamptons are burning down, but at least wood structure is the strongest right now!'
2.) Yuan is weakening. Otherwise Chinese corporate dollar-denominated debts, which is around 1 trillion, will crush the economy right away when the fed raises rates. Plus the government already signaled it is willing to guide yuan lower a month ago.
3.) That's kinda like saying 'well, my 3 houses in the hamptons are burning down, but at least wood structure is the strongest right now!'
Hmm. Haven't followed the econ beat in the last couple months, my bad.
I don't follow your 3rd point though. What do you mean?
I don't follow your 3rd point though. What do you mean?
Wow, those are absolutely terrible economic indicators. That's not just reduced GDP; those are recession numbers.
If you think that's terrible, this would be frightening. http://www.thestar.com.my/Business/Business-News/2015/10/10/...
"While an imminent collapse isn’t yet the base-case scenario for most forecasters, China’s 42.2 trillion yuan (US$6.7 trillion) bond market is flashing the same danger signs that triggered a tumble in stocks four months ago: stretched valuations, a surge in investor leverage and shrinking corporate profits. A reversal would add to challenges facing China’s ruling Communist Party, which has struggled to contain volatility in financial markets amid the deepest economic slowdown since 1990."
"While an imminent collapse isn’t yet the base-case scenario for most forecasters, China’s 42.2 trillion yuan (US$6.7 trillion) bond market is flashing the same danger signs that triggered a tumble in stocks four months ago: stretched valuations, a surge in investor leverage and shrinking corporate profits. A reversal would add to challenges facing China’s ruling Communist Party, which has struggled to contain volatility in financial markets amid the deepest economic slowdown since 1990."
I am now sufficiently frightened into making changes to my personal financial strategy based on this (no longer contributing additional funds to non-retirement investment accounts, instead directing those funds to paying off debt at a faster rate).
Shit appears to be getting real shortly.
Shit appears to be getting real shortly.
It might also indicate that China is feeling more confident that it has closed the gap and no longer needs to use illegal channels. In addition they'll soon find the shoe on the other foot and thus it's a good time to take a pro IP protection stance. It's also fair that right now the US economy is much stronger than China's and so sanctions would not look good at home.
But on the other hand, the Chinese government could, for example, choose to only succeed in arresting and prosecuting hackers that are not affiliated with the government itself, making the trials visible internationally as desired, and using the information provided about government-sponsored, or government-approved, hacking to improve their methods and to help avoid detection in the future.
International cooperation is great, and we should all hope for peace and prosperity, but there are certainly proponents in both Washington and Beijing that see all these things through a lens of competition, protectionism, and also the possibility of war. It's hard to tell how strong those proponents' influence is on either side of the Pacific.
International cooperation is great, and we should all hope for peace and prosperity, but there are certainly proponents in both Washington and Beijing that see all these things through a lens of competition, protectionism, and also the possibility of war. It's hard to tell how strong those proponents' influence is on either side of the Pacific.
It's possible China is doing this to improve commercial relationship with the U.S., especially if the US allows it to bully American companies into doing "joint ventures" with Chinese companies, if they want to do business there:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/24/cisco-systems-chin...
I don't think US is holding a gun to China's head. I think it's more of a quid pro quo thing. It may even be worse than that. China and US may have agreed to arrest some people for show, so it looks like the US gov is "doing something", while in reality nothing major changes, and the two countries agree to spy each other for economic purposes.
If we're going to continue to see these arrests of hackers who hacked into the US from China over the next year, then maybe we're going somewhere. But if this is it as the response for the OPM hack, then it was definitely just for show.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/24/cisco-systems-chin...
I don't think US is holding a gun to China's head. I think it's more of a quid pro quo thing. It may even be worse than that. China and US may have agreed to arrest some people for show, so it looks like the US gov is "doing something", while in reality nothing major changes, and the two countries agree to spy each other for economic purposes.
If we're going to continue to see these arrests of hackers who hacked into the US from China over the next year, then maybe we're going somewhere. But if this is it as the response for the OPM hack, then it was definitely just for show.
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"The arrests were apparently separate from a mass sweep launched by the Chinese government in July in which authorities as of early September had arrested about 15,000 people for alleged cybercrimes, which included hacking, sending spam text messages and online scams."
What is a few more hackers if they already arrested 15000? It probably ties much more into other legal cooperative matters such as US willingness to send back people the Chinese government wants to face corruption charges in China.
What is a few more hackers if they already arrested 15000? It probably ties much more into other legal cooperative matters such as US willingness to send back people the Chinese government wants to face corruption charges in China.
Do you think China arrested talented hackers or dummy replacements?
Honest (albeit provocative) question: from a political point of view, does it matter?
The fact that China is willing arrest any of their own citizens at the behest of the US government is a pretty big deal. I'm not sure exactly what it means, but China doesn't strike me as the kind of country that's especially keen on being the US's lapdog.
The fact that China is willing arrest any of their own citizens at the behest of the US government is a pretty big deal. I'm not sure exactly what it means, but China doesn't strike me as the kind of country that's especially keen on being the US's lapdog.
China doesn't strike me as the kind of country that's especially keen on being the US's lapdog.
I agree, and it's also possible that they arrest the real ones, sentence them, and then let them out the back door sometime later.
I agree, and it's also possible that they arrest the real ones, sentence them, and then let them out the back door sometime later.
I'd say they arrested talented hackers who weren't sanctioned by the Chinese Government. I don't see any indication anyone who was arrested was employed by the Chinese.
It sends a very clear message:
You need the Government as a patron if you want to engage in such activity. If you don't, well, we'll arrest you over when its to our benefit.
It sends a very clear message:
You need the Government as a patron if you want to engage in such activity. If you don't, well, we'll arrest you over when its to our benefit.
This is probably somehow related:
>U.S. officials could soon send a Navy ship steaming by a chain of man-made islands that China has built in the South China Sea, Pentagon officials said, potentially exacerbating tensions in an area in which Beijing is expanding its presence.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/10/08...
>U.S. officials could soon send a Navy ship steaming by a chain of man-made islands that China has built in the South China Sea, Pentagon officials said, potentially exacerbating tensions in an area in which Beijing is expanding its presence.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/10/08...
Finally. It's refreshing to see US try to drive a stake between the corporate interests and a big monolithic government. This is a country that is spying on economic allies all over the world and callaborates by horse trading secrets to corporate interests. I understand that they can't talk about the length of the list, who is on it or the crimes they comitted, but just knowing they they have a list feels like justice to me, and these hackers will face retribution.
China has to realize that it is hurting the financial position of the entire country and it's own credibility, by funneling secrets to private companies. If the reverse were true in the US, companies funneling secrets to the governement, it would be treason. America has the advantage of complete isolation of the government and corporations, which just isn't possible in a communist nation, so only in the most extreme cases do the two share finances or data.
China approves state sanctioned hacking against their allies and citizens in private companies and it gives them an unfair advantage. If private companies had that sort of clout in the US, you would see laws structured favourably for corporations and they would yield a lot more political influence. China is the kind of country that would commit industrial espionage against private companies it is allied with economically and politically. If it were possible for them to configure Danish and Malaysian servers via network and physical intrusion, they would be able to tactically engineer a super virus that would affect >50% of a whole country, not to mention collatoral damage. It would hurt the companies reputation, jeopardize it's secrets and causing them millions in damages as well as the hundreds of thousands affectd.
The article says:
"Chinese prosecution would entail the United States sharing evidence linking the cyberintrusions to the individuals. And to do so could compromise sensitive information on how the U.S. government tracked the suspects."
THESE ARE HACKERS. We shouldn't be afraid to get a win once in a while. We have to do something and a good first step would be to go to China, and tell them how we caught them breaking into private companies in the US and abroad, and we were able to document these records. They need to know that if they hit a multinational, a data center, resedential citizens, etc. that we are there, we will catch you and we will bring you to justice.
Im glad the US is taking a stand against this. I look forward to watching these hackers face trial, but ultimately, their government and citizens should be ashamed of themselves. It's a shame the Cyber Security bill failed to pass the senate a few months ago, that way organizations would monitor for cyber threat indicators and they would be forced to protect us from these hackers. I think I echo the words of the unnamed source, when I say "Look, here’s these guys. Round them up".
China has to realize that it is hurting the financial position of the entire country and it's own credibility, by funneling secrets to private companies. If the reverse were true in the US, companies funneling secrets to the governement, it would be treason. America has the advantage of complete isolation of the government and corporations, which just isn't possible in a communist nation, so only in the most extreme cases do the two share finances or data.
China approves state sanctioned hacking against their allies and citizens in private companies and it gives them an unfair advantage. If private companies had that sort of clout in the US, you would see laws structured favourably for corporations and they would yield a lot more political influence. China is the kind of country that would commit industrial espionage against private companies it is allied with economically and politically. If it were possible for them to configure Danish and Malaysian servers via network and physical intrusion, they would be able to tactically engineer a super virus that would affect >50% of a whole country, not to mention collatoral damage. It would hurt the companies reputation, jeopardize it's secrets and causing them millions in damages as well as the hundreds of thousands affectd.
The article says:
"Chinese prosecution would entail the United States sharing evidence linking the cyberintrusions to the individuals. And to do so could compromise sensitive information on how the U.S. government tracked the suspects."
THESE ARE HACKERS. We shouldn't be afraid to get a win once in a while. We have to do something and a good first step would be to go to China, and tell them how we caught them breaking into private companies in the US and abroad, and we were able to document these records. They need to know that if they hit a multinational, a data center, resedential citizens, etc. that we are there, we will catch you and we will bring you to justice.
Im glad the US is taking a stand against this. I look forward to watching these hackers face trial, but ultimately, their government and citizens should be ashamed of themselves. It's a shame the Cyber Security bill failed to pass the senate a few months ago, that way organizations would monitor for cyber threat indicators and they would be forced to protect us from these hackers. I think I echo the words of the unnamed source, when I say "Look, here’s these guys. Round them up".
"their government and citizens should be ashamed of themselves"
Really? Are you ashamed of your government's cyber attacks on other nations? I could just replace the word "China" with "USA" in your comment and everything is still true.
> Really? Are you ashamed of your government's cyber attacks on other nations?
The U.S does minimal hacking and when it does, it's nearly surgical in nature. It's a precise target for a precise reason. This is unlike other countries' hacking (read: China & Russia) where it's indiscriminate and relentless. They hope to steal anything and everything.
The world isn't black & white. It's infinite shades of grey. Believe it or not, one form of hacking can be "less bad" than another form. Regardless, China and Russia's government hacking programs are orders of magnitude larger than the U.S's program.
> I could just replace the word "China" with "USA" in your comment and everything is still true.
No you couldn't. Again, the world isn't black and white and not all crimes are the same. Is a mass murderer and a petty thief the same? They're both criminals, right? If you don't think they're the same, then you begin to understand that the world isn't black and white.
The U.S does minimal hacking and when it does, it's nearly surgical in nature. It's a precise target for a precise reason. This is unlike other countries' hacking (read: China & Russia) where it's indiscriminate and relentless. They hope to steal anything and everything.
The world isn't black & white. It's infinite shades of grey. Believe it or not, one form of hacking can be "less bad" than another form. Regardless, China and Russia's government hacking programs are orders of magnitude larger than the U.S's program.
> I could just replace the word "China" with "USA" in your comment and everything is still true.
No you couldn't. Again, the world isn't black and white and not all crimes are the same. Is a mass murderer and a petty thief the same? They're both criminals, right? If you don't think they're the same, then you begin to understand that the world isn't black and white.
then you would have correctly assessed the satire.
You're becoming my favorite satire poster.
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Doesn't make up for the OPM hack.
Conspiracy theory: The CIA helped crash the Chinese stock market in response
Conspiracy theory: The CIA helped crash the Chinese stock market in response
I feel bad for the hackers, their government orders them to hack some US servers, then their government arrests them for doing their job. Each a scapegoat if I ever saw one.
Reason why the Chinese might be cooperating is because the US has a very significant person of interest on their soils, one that the Chinese party is desperate to get back because this man knows state secrets and inner workings of the secretive CCP.
1971genocide(1)
Previously, it appeared that the hacking groups worked very closely with the government. They would attack targets that would directly benefit state run organizations. For China to flip and arrest the people who they employed tells me the US has some serious leverage right now. Either that or these arrests are just a show and won't stick.