America’s once magical, now mundane love affair with cars(washingtonpost.com)
washingtonpost.com
America’s once magical, now mundane love affair with cars
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/style/2015/09/02/americas-fading-car-culture/?tid=sm_tw
13 comments
The article touched on smartphones, but I think missed a point - a huge part of the recent "acceptability" of public transport is that people have got something to do during their trip. In fact I kind of get the feeling people almost welcome bus/train trips now as a chance to get in some uninterrupted "phone time"! Previously, unless you brought a book, riding public transport meant a long look out the window. I think that's huge.
a huge part of the recent "acceptability" of public transport is that people have got something to do during their trip
In addition, it's now much easier to mix and match transport options: Lyft at one point, bike at another, bikes at a third. Many cities have also built out much more functional light rail systems. Denver is one good example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTD_Bus_%26_Light_Rail.
A while ago I wrote "Cars and Generational Shift" about similar themes: http://jakeseliger.com/2012/03/24/cars-and-generational-shif....
In addition, it's now much easier to mix and match transport options: Lyft at one point, bike at another, bikes at a third. Many cities have also built out much more functional light rail systems. Denver is one good example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTD_Bus_%26_Light_Rail.
A while ago I wrote "Cars and Generational Shift" about similar themes: http://jakeseliger.com/2012/03/24/cars-and-generational-shif....
It still does mean this on the US public transportation crown jewel, the NYC subway, as there's no Internet in the tunnels. So, I still do bring a book or headphones. However, I think you still make a valid point: I certainly value the stretch of forced "chill out" time in the middle of a city that never seems to let up, whereas driving I much more often find to be stressful and aggravating (in cities at least).
It's kind of funny, more at the end of the day, and in my days off, I really enjoy driving.. even some heavy traffic doesn't phase me... It's when I'm trying to get somewhere by a certain time that it gets stressful...
The past couple years I've taken a 7-10 day road trip across part of the country... It's been very fun and relaxing. I'd much rather drive in a relatively comfortable car enjoying the scenery than flying, but to each their own.
The past couple years I've taken a 7-10 day road trip across part of the country... It's been very fun and relaxing. I'd much rather drive in a relatively comfortable car enjoying the scenery than flying, but to each their own.
I think the self driving car will finally be the death of the car. What's the point of owning a car, if you don't drive it? You are put out of control, the fun is gone, so why pay for it instead of using public transport? (I write this from a european perspective, where public transport is available).
The only thing I think will make it worth while is this: I drove the car (I drove!) to my destination, get out and then I can tell the car: 'find a parking'.
Owning a car stopped being fun 20 years ago (at least). Today, in a big city, it only enhances the stress level. So as a consequence it makes sense not to own one (let alone the costs). And it also makes sense that people buy vintage cars. This can be fun, if you like to tinker and don't have to rely on this thing to bring you somewhere and in time.
The only thing I think will make it worth while is this: I drove the car (I drove!) to my destination, get out and then I can tell the car: 'find a parking'.
Owning a car stopped being fun 20 years ago (at least). Today, in a big city, it only enhances the stress level. So as a consequence it makes sense not to own one (let alone the costs). And it also makes sense that people buy vintage cars. This can be fun, if you like to tinker and don't have to rely on this thing to bring you somewhere and in time.
Out of curiosity, when is the last time you actually had fun driving your car? I live in California where 99% of my driving is dealing with traffic and road hazards. The last time I had fun behind the wheel was when I went to New Zealand on vacation.
I suspect that most people in major metropolitan areas would have more fun browsing facebook on their daily commutes than they actually do driving.
"when is the last time you actually had fun driving your car"
I usually have fun looking forward to driving a longer distance. Once I am in the car, stuck in the usual jam while trying to leave the city, the fun is gone. And it doesn't come back when the road finally gets empty late in the evening.
I used to own a convertible. It was fun using it on summer evenings and nights, in the countryside.
I usually have fun looking forward to driving a longer distance. Once I am in the car, stuck in the usual jam while trying to leave the city, the fun is gone. And it doesn't come back when the road finally gets empty late in the evening.
I used to own a convertible. It was fun using it on summer evenings and nights, in the countryside.
I'd say that matches a lot of people's experiences as well. I personally think we'll see "driving" split into two categories: your regular errands and commute you offload to your self-driving car. Your "fun" driving you plan ahead for and go to designated areas/roads where you can take the wheel and drive to your heart's content (without endangering anyone).
I live and work in a suburb of a small city with fairly rural areas around it. I have fun driving at least half of my car trips.
even without the tolls & limits and what have you... I went on a roadtrip through the Southwest ( miles of open road and few limits, ripe for enjoying the drive ) and still the whole time I was bored & rather be on Facebook or reading a book
I think self-driving cars won't stop car ownership, because if your car drives itself it's basically a very small moving home. If you're 'living in' instead of 'driving' your car, you'll want it even more customized than if your attention was mostly on driving.
Take a look at the rear seats of executive towncars, for examples of this kind of thing. People who can be driven everywhere in their own cars will go to substantial lengths to get them just the way they like them, whether that's for working, entertainment, napping, or whatever else.
Take a look at the rear seats of executive towncars, for examples of this kind of thing. People who can be driven everywhere in their own cars will go to substantial lengths to get them just the way they like them, whether that's for working, entertainment, napping, or whatever else.
Eh, you're making the wildly incorrect assumption that everyone lives in the middle of a major city with quality public transport. I would guess that 75+% of Americans either have no access to public transport or the public transport available does not fulfill their needs. This isn't going to change anytime soon in the US, and the car will not die in the foreseeable future.
With the public transit in my city you're limited to a very restrictive set of hours, many stops are only serviced once an hour so you're restricted in how you go about your day (and every stop you make takes at minimum an hour!), and the travel itself can take upwards of an hour for a trip that takes ten minutes by car... during rush hour.
There is no Uber. Taxis are expensive and unreliable. It's too cold to run or bike most of the year. Everyone owns cars or has someone who does drive them around.
These articles always love to talk about Uber and public transit as eating away at the car market... But outside of the major centers where people are writing these articles, the car is still often king.
There is no Uber. Taxis are expensive and unreliable. It's too cold to run or bike most of the year. Everyone owns cars or has someone who does drive them around.
These articles always love to talk about Uber and public transit as eating away at the car market... But outside of the major centers where people are writing these articles, the car is still often king.
Most people drive cars because it's much faster, cheaper and more reliable than public transport.
I agree with this if you amend it to "... they believe it is much ..."
It is usually faster (some metros excepted) and usually more reliable, but people seem to consistently underestimate how much they spend on their cars. If you live in a major metro area (not its suburbs) my guess is that public transit is usually much cheaper. It certainly is in the ones I have lived in. If you've got a decent transit system (and that's a big if in North America), of course.
On the other hand, there are plenty of living arrangements that make transit impractical.
It is usually faster (some metros excepted) and usually more reliable, but people seem to consistently underestimate how much they spend on their cars. If you live in a major metro area (not its suburbs) my guess is that public transit is usually much cheaper. It certainly is in the ones I have lived in. If you've got a decent transit system (and that's a big if in North America), of course.
On the other hand, there are plenty of living arrangements that make transit impractical.
Here are my numbers: Since I don't own a car any more and use public transport, I have 500 Euros a month more in my pocket.
That does not account for the savings I need to buy a new car every few years. Only insurance, fuel and repairs/inspections.
Public transport is 60 a month.
I suspect it's a bit less compelling in many north american cities (price of fuel, etc.), but savings of a few thousand dollars/ year are certainly possible in some locations.
I also forgot to mention taxes and the price for a garage (100 per month). That should make the 500 more realistic.
But as you wrote, these values vary very much depending on your location.
But as you wrote, these values vary very much depending on your location.
I live in Atlanta 1 block from a train station and the only time I use the train is to get to the airport or dinner in the nearby city of Decatur. I do live in a highly walkable neighborhood and work is a 10 minute drive. It's a 45 minute walk which I'll do in the fall.
University is 1 hour from my house by public transport or walking, 15 mins by bicycle and 10 mins by car. My parents' house is ~4 hours by public transport and <2 hours by car. That is why people prefer other forms of transport. I do like use the train because you can work while riding, and they have a lower CO2 footprint, but neither reason really applies to most people.
What is the point of owning a car? You ask this as I sit here looking to see if Ford has opened the books on ordering a Focus RS...
There are more uses for cars than A to B devices. Watch this video. I saw it when I was around age 16 and it's stuck with me ever since.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PZ5J3GLSYI
There are more uses for cars than A to B devices. Watch this video. I saw it when I was around age 16 and it's stuck with me ever since.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PZ5J3GLSYI
As a vehicle for entertainment, sure. As a professional sport, yes. Grandparent meant it more as "what's the point of owning a car if you have 5 vacation days per year and never leave the city and all your commute each day is home->work->the store->home".
Ironically, they have put asphalt to the top of the Pikes Peak now...
Even if I won't drive my car, I would still like to own it to keep it personal. To keep my stuff in it. To not have to pair my phone every time I go somewhere. To be hygienic(I hate public transport because of this).
And yeah, I drive in a large-ish city. Still enjoy the experience. Most of the time don't even have the radio on, just listen to the engine rumbling.
And yeah, I drive in a large-ish city. Still enjoy the experience. Most of the time don't even have the radio on, just listen to the engine rumbling.
Silence, isolation, speed.
But maybe the lack of these in public transportation is simply because they can be found elsewhere, I.e. a demand issue that would be solved naturally.
But maybe the lack of these in public transportation is simply because they can be found elsewhere, I.e. a demand issue that would be solved naturally.
First a nit: 'Now, he says, “cars have become virtual reality boxes,” infantilizing the driver. BMW even pipes phony engine noises through its cars’ sound systems...'
Chevy and Ford do this too with their trucks at least.
Second: 16 years ago I chose a car loan instead of a student loan. I was living in a small town and it was a ticket out. It was key to getting a higher paying job as employers required the mobility. In areas with poor or nonexistent transit, this is still the case. I live in Toronto now, sold my car 2 years ago, walk to work and telecommute and use car sharing. Why? Roads are too congested (I consider commuting in rush our soul destroying), it is so easy to rent a car today compared to 20 years ago and the big one: Insurance. It is prohibitively expensive and I have a perfect driving record. I now rent out my parking stall, and have more money available to travel and I no longer have expensive surprise costs for car repairs.
These people are describing a hobby and the author seems to have missed that.
Second: 16 years ago I chose a car loan instead of a student loan. I was living in a small town and it was a ticket out. It was key to getting a higher paying job as employers required the mobility. In areas with poor or nonexistent transit, this is still the case. I live in Toronto now, sold my car 2 years ago, walk to work and telecommute and use car sharing. Why? Roads are too congested (I consider commuting in rush our soul destroying), it is so easy to rent a car today compared to 20 years ago and the big one: Insurance. It is prohibitively expensive and I have a perfect driving record. I now rent out my parking stall, and have more money available to travel and I no longer have expensive surprise costs for car repairs.
These people are describing a hobby and the author seems to have missed that.
At least in BMWs case, the stated goal of playing the engine sound recordings is to assist the driver with shifting by reproducing the audio cues that are muted by the cabin's quiet design.
> Roads are too congested (I consider commuting in rush our soul destroying)
Drive a motorcycle and filter past all the idling losers. Best feeling in the world :D
Drive a motorcycle and filter past all the idling losers. Best feeling in the world :D
Except in some places, this is illegal. And because other drivers know that, doing it is fraught with danger.
It's even more fun when it's illegal. Loser cagers get so mad they look like they're about to burst a vein in their heads.
I'd like a response to the last part of my statement. You do this in my state, and some other driver 'accidentally' cuts you off, they're not liable because you shouldn't have been there and they had no [legal] expectation that a two wheeled vehicle would be there. They get off, you're injured and out a whole motorcycle, and your insurance is paying for the damage to their vehicle.
Never seen it happen, and even if it did it would be worth it for the overall time savings ($50/h * 50 minutes every work day = $9,000 a year in time savings).
I would also be very surprised if they're not liable. What if I had been a bicycle? It's not hard to do reasonably safely.
I would also be very surprised if they're not liable. What if I had been a bicycle? It's not hard to do reasonably safely.
Also, ride a bike and filter past all the motorcyclists who get stuck between the cars.
Oh boy, if you thought drivers hated you when you were on a motorbike, just wait until they see you on a bicycle. It's like waving a giant red flag in front of a bull, while someone is sticking it in the balls with a hot poker. It doesn't help that driving education skimps on the road rules governing car-bicycle interactions and the rights of bicyclists on the use of roads, so a lot of drivers believe in made-up folklore rules.
> "People talk about the open road," she says, "but in my experience, the road is tolls and traffic cameras."
There was a time when if I was having a bad day I'd hit up the highway, roll down the windows, open up the throttle and just drive for an hour. The sound of the engine, some wind in your face, isolation and freedom.
Now there are speed cameras everywhere and everyone's driving 25mph under the speed limit. There is no open road, only frustration.
They complain that our relationship with cars has become very utilitarian... But that's what our culture has made it. There will be no risk taking. There will be no excessive pollution. There will be no fun.
There was a time when if I was having a bad day I'd hit up the highway, roll down the windows, open up the throttle and just drive for an hour. The sound of the engine, some wind in your face, isolation and freedom.
Now there are speed cameras everywhere and everyone's driving 25mph under the speed limit. There is no open road, only frustration.
They complain that our relationship with cars has become very utilitarian... But that's what our culture has made it. There will be no risk taking. There will be no excessive pollution. There will be no fun.
Believe it or not, I don't use a car (and never have) in the city where I live. You may call me a troglodyte, but I call it “ahead of my time”. I get around without the noise, the exhaust, the waste of space and the gratuitous danger.
Maybe it's a generational thing, but I know several people that have never bothered to learn to drive. When I grew up in the UK, passing your driving test was an important rite of passage.
I can understand never owning a car, but never learning to drive feels a bit like never learning to swim.
I can understand never owning a car, but never learning to drive feels a bit like never learning to swim.
> I can understand never owning a car, but never learning to drive feels a bit like never learning to swim.
The difference being you don't need a license to swim. I can drive a car ( and agricultural tractor ) but I'm not licensed to do so on the public highway. It simply isn't worth the cost to me.
In my part of the UK one must take lessons with 'approved' i.e expensive state-vetted instructors as well as computer-based testing. Then hire of a car for the actual practical lesson, plus its cost. All-in here it costs about £3,000 to receive a license in your hand.
And then you can't actually drive on the highway without some form of insurance, starting at around £900 liability-only for new drivers.
Learning to swim cost me around £90.
The difference being you don't need a license to swim. I can drive a car ( and agricultural tractor ) but I'm not licensed to do so on the public highway. It simply isn't worth the cost to me.
In my part of the UK one must take lessons with 'approved' i.e expensive state-vetted instructors as well as computer-based testing. Then hire of a car for the actual practical lesson, plus its cost. All-in here it costs about £3,000 to receive a license in your hand.
And then you can't actually drive on the highway without some form of insurance, starting at around £900 liability-only for new drivers.
Learning to swim cost me around £90.
It shouldn't cost anything like £3,000. I finally got around to learning to drive 3 years ago as I was moving to the US. All in all it cost maybe £600.
Driving license: £50 Theory test: £25 Practical test: £62 20 lessons @ £20/hour: £400.
Look for an independent instructor, they're cheaper and usually have more experience than the ones in the big chain driving schools.
Even if you don't plan to own a car straight away, a few years down the line you'll find your insurance is cheaper just because you've held your license for several years.
Driving license: £50 Theory test: £25 Practical test: £62 20 lessons @ £20/hour: £400.
Look for an independent instructor, they're cheaper and usually have more experience than the ones in the big chain driving schools.
Even if you don't plan to own a car straight away, a few years down the line you'll find your insurance is cheaper just because you've held your license for several years.
http://www.moneysupermarket.com/car-insurance/blog/the-cost-...
> The average cost of a driving lesson is now £24, and with the DSA (Driving Standards Agency) recommending 47 hours of tuition under the supervision of a professional instructor, the total cost of lessons for a learner will be £1,128.21 Mar 2013
That's not a bare knuckle minimum, but even this is less than the additional suggested 22 hours private practice (and the learner needs to be insured).
> The average cost of a driving lesson is now £24, and with the DSA (Driving Standards Agency) recommending 47 hours of tuition under the supervision of a professional instructor, the total cost of lessons for a learner will be £1,128.21 Mar 2013
That's not a bare knuckle minimum, but even this is less than the additional suggested 22 hours private practice (and the learner needs to be insured).
>I can understand never owning a car, but never learning to drive feels a bit like never learning to swim.
I've never been a particular car person and the cars I've bought have tended toward the nice but practical. To never learn to drive though strikes me as just incredibly limiting.
I've almost always needed a car to get to my company's office on a day-to-day basis and even when I've worked downtown, I've pretty much needed a car for visiting customers, job sites, or while traveling. Even if some scenarios could have sometimes been handled without the need to personally drive, I would never have wanted to be "that guy who needs always needs some special accommodation because he never learned to drive."
Furthermore, I've gone on many many vacations that depended upon my ability to drive a car. Sure, I could just not do those things and attach myself to a group or avoid locations not accessible by other means but it all seems so limiting to me.
Whether you actually buy a vehicle depends on a lot of factors and, especially with the newer short-term rental options, one may be able to avoid purchasing one in borderline cases.
I've never been a particular car person and the cars I've bought have tended toward the nice but practical. To never learn to drive though strikes me as just incredibly limiting.
I've almost always needed a car to get to my company's office on a day-to-day basis and even when I've worked downtown, I've pretty much needed a car for visiting customers, job sites, or while traveling. Even if some scenarios could have sometimes been handled without the need to personally drive, I would never have wanted to be "that guy who needs always needs some special accommodation because he never learned to drive."
Furthermore, I've gone on many many vacations that depended upon my ability to drive a car. Sure, I could just not do those things and attach myself to a group or avoid locations not accessible by other means but it all seems so limiting to me.
Whether you actually buy a vehicle depends on a lot of factors and, especially with the newer short-term rental options, one may be able to avoid purchasing one in borderline cases.
Only an anecdote from my life, not wanting to prove that you're wrong or something like that:
My family has never owned a car (mother is the only one who even has a license) and in the part of the world where I grew up (Switzerland) that was no problem. I make extensive use of the public transport here as I own a GA, a general subscription which is valid for almost the whole of Switzerland (exceptions are mostly ship lines and mountain railways).
For me it feels quite weird to travel by car because I am so used to take the train or bus.
Maybe I'll learn it someday but for now I have zero need to do so.
My family has never owned a car (mother is the only one who even has a license) and in the part of the world where I grew up (Switzerland) that was no problem. I make extensive use of the public transport here as I own a GA, a general subscription which is valid for almost the whole of Switzerland (exceptions are mostly ship lines and mountain railways).
For me it feels quite weird to travel by car because I am so used to take the train or bus.
Maybe I'll learn it someday but for now I have zero need to do so.
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I'm not a car connoisseur like the guys in the article, but I appreciate beautiful cars.
I'm an 'old' Millennial though... I drive a 2011 Synergy Green Camaro 2SS. I got my license as soon as I turned 16. I've always lived in smaller towns/cities though, so public transportation is not a very useful thing and having a car is still very important. I just like the freedom it provides though as well.
I don't fit the 'Millennial' mold though in lots of other ways, so I'm probably just an outlier.
This is from the Washington Post. If it were from the L.A. Times, maybe it'd carry some weight with me. Having grown up in south Texas and Arizona and then, post college, moved to NYC and now Baltimore, I can attest to an enormous culture divide in car culture between, at least in my experience, the two regions.
One, it's just not practical to do without a car in the southwest. In many places, Lyft style services aren't a viable, reliable option for things like driving yourself and your sisters to school every day and then a part-time job after. I've yet to come across a smartphone that has this functionality. And, I'm going to risk making a sweeping generalization here, the stereotypical Texan parent would look at you sideways if you suggested they be your full-time chauffeur.
Two, car culture in the southwest is not just about the classics. I mean, everyone loves a classic, but there is a certain love reserved for your beater, for the freedom it affords you, and the memories you end up associating with it. One of my best friends had a '68 Mustang, and it was all beat to hell. There was a hole rusted through the floor in the back that was perfect for emptying any beverage should the need suddenly arise. My other friend in our clique had a Dogde Neon. And I had a wood paneled, 1980's station wagon, clearly nicknamed "The Woody". Now, the guy in the Mustang clearly had the coolest vehicle, but the guy in the Neon was the most fun to be in the passenger seat with, and I was the only one with a car that basically had a twin bed in the back for making out in. It was high school, and we placed emphasis on the fun times, not the cars, and the cars ended up embed with those memories such that I'd never have traded "The Woody" for the Mustang.
Third, road trips. Honestly, people on the east coast seam to just not be as familiar with this concept. And, if I have to explain it, well, you won't understand it. But, some highlights... Calling parents from a pay phone to ask permission to borrow car for road trip, but, calling from California. Being tailgated through three states because we pissed off some guy when passing him in Florida, and hoping we didn't run out of gas before he did, or New Orleans. Meeting a person from the UK in San Diego, and them taking unplanned road trip to San Fran, then back to Phienix, AZ. Taking a photo of the speed gauge cause your going 110 mph, the laughing your ass off cause you somehow didn't notice the fuel needle was deep into E, and now you're hitch hiking to a gas station in the middle of nowhere on I-8. The calming emerald glow of an oil refinery in the middle of a cool South Texas night, windows down, because it's pretty much always a road trip going anywhere in Texas. Round trip from Tucson, Az to Charleston, S.C to pick up a friend just getting out of the military, making sure to stop to bar-b-q on the beach any chance we could afford. I could go on.
Phones will not replace that. Phones will not replace tailgating. Parents are not a substitute for a drivers license. Public transit could never have provided me such memories. And I'm saying all this as a fierce advocate of bike commuting and public transit. Gas cars will certainly go the way of hitchhiking, but America is too big and has too many amazing pockets of culture and adventure for the car, or whatever fills its role in the future, not to have a place in our lives that is far, far from mundane.
One, it's just not practical to do without a car in the southwest. In many places, Lyft style services aren't a viable, reliable option for things like driving yourself and your sisters to school every day and then a part-time job after. I've yet to come across a smartphone that has this functionality. And, I'm going to risk making a sweeping generalization here, the stereotypical Texan parent would look at you sideways if you suggested they be your full-time chauffeur.
Two, car culture in the southwest is not just about the classics. I mean, everyone loves a classic, but there is a certain love reserved for your beater, for the freedom it affords you, and the memories you end up associating with it. One of my best friends had a '68 Mustang, and it was all beat to hell. There was a hole rusted through the floor in the back that was perfect for emptying any beverage should the need suddenly arise. My other friend in our clique had a Dogde Neon. And I had a wood paneled, 1980's station wagon, clearly nicknamed "The Woody". Now, the guy in the Mustang clearly had the coolest vehicle, but the guy in the Neon was the most fun to be in the passenger seat with, and I was the only one with a car that basically had a twin bed in the back for making out in. It was high school, and we placed emphasis on the fun times, not the cars, and the cars ended up embed with those memories such that I'd never have traded "The Woody" for the Mustang.
Third, road trips. Honestly, people on the east coast seam to just not be as familiar with this concept. And, if I have to explain it, well, you won't understand it. But, some highlights... Calling parents from a pay phone to ask permission to borrow car for road trip, but, calling from California. Being tailgated through three states because we pissed off some guy when passing him in Florida, and hoping we didn't run out of gas before he did, or New Orleans. Meeting a person from the UK in San Diego, and them taking unplanned road trip to San Fran, then back to Phienix, AZ. Taking a photo of the speed gauge cause your going 110 mph, the laughing your ass off cause you somehow didn't notice the fuel needle was deep into E, and now you're hitch hiking to a gas station in the middle of nowhere on I-8. The calming emerald glow of an oil refinery in the middle of a cool South Texas night, windows down, because it's pretty much always a road trip going anywhere in Texas. Round trip from Tucson, Az to Charleston, S.C to pick up a friend just getting out of the military, making sure to stop to bar-b-q on the beach any chance we could afford. I could go on.
Phones will not replace that. Phones will not replace tailgating. Parents are not a substitute for a drivers license. Public transit could never have provided me such memories. And I'm saying all this as a fierce advocate of bike commuting and public transit. Gas cars will certainly go the way of hitchhiking, but America is too big and has too many amazing pockets of culture and adventure for the car, or whatever fills its role in the future, not to have a place in our lives that is far, far from mundane.
I'll over some rebuttals to your points:
Which parts of Texas/Arizona are we talking about? Remember, over 70% of Americans lived in Urbanized Areas (high density metro areas) in 2010, and that number is growing year over year [1]. There is definitely a cultural divide between these areas and more open/spacious areas with respect to cars, but I think it's easy to make the case that for the large majority of Americans (especially those in younger demographics), self-driving cars will be a relief.
I'm pretty sure there is a strong generational divide with respect to car love. I can't quite pin down where the split is, but I suspect that somewhere between Gen X and Gen Y, a lot of people stopped having a fondness for their cars in the way that you're expressing. That's not to say there aren't car lovers/gear heads in younger generations, but a lot of younger drivers just don't see cars as major status symbols, or see their own cars as more than commodities.
I'm with you on road trips. That's one of the great american vacations, and there are a lot of beautiful things to see from the road. I think what we'll see is services pop up that specifically cater to this market, with unlimited miles and specialized routes/options that let you stop anywhere you want along the way.
[1] https://www.census.gov/geo/reference/ua/urban-rural-2010.htm...
Which parts of Texas/Arizona are we talking about? Remember, over 70% of Americans lived in Urbanized Areas (high density metro areas) in 2010, and that number is growing year over year [1]. There is definitely a cultural divide between these areas and more open/spacious areas with respect to cars, but I think it's easy to make the case that for the large majority of Americans (especially those in younger demographics), self-driving cars will be a relief.
I'm pretty sure there is a strong generational divide with respect to car love. I can't quite pin down where the split is, but I suspect that somewhere between Gen X and Gen Y, a lot of people stopped having a fondness for their cars in the way that you're expressing. That's not to say there aren't car lovers/gear heads in younger generations, but a lot of younger drivers just don't see cars as major status symbols, or see their own cars as more than commodities.
I'm with you on road trips. That's one of the great american vacations, and there are a lot of beautiful things to see from the road. I think what we'll see is services pop up that specifically cater to this market, with unlimited miles and specialized routes/options that let you stop anywhere you want along the way.
[1] https://www.census.gov/geo/reference/ua/urban-rural-2010.htm...
The Dallas / Fort Worth area is referred to as a "metroplex." The vast majority of that metroplex has no adequate public transit, if "adequate" is to be described as "walkable without turning into a sweaty puddle during the summer time." But hey, if you want to walk 4 miles to reach a bus terminal to prove a point, be my guest. I'll be driving, and so will virtually everyone else in "generation Y."
People seek status. Vehicle ownership is a status symbol by itself. Owning a more expensive car? Also a status symbol. That they don't know what's going on under the hood doesn't stop them from wanting the most flashy thing they can afford.
People seek status. Vehicle ownership is a status symbol by itself. Owning a more expensive car? Also a status symbol. That they don't know what's going on under the hood doesn't stop them from wanting the most flashy thing they can afford.
They did stop making cars that could be considered in any way stylish or beautiful. It doesn't help that modern cars are almost impossible to work on for anything but trivial repairs, now that they are so complex and computerized. In high school, I drove an old beater of a '85 F150, which was almost completely electro-mechanical. With a little know-how, a high-lift jack, and a basic set of mechanics tools, you could take the entire thing apart to the frame and put it back together. Many modern cars, you can't even change the oil without taking it to a garage with factory certified technicians. My '07 F150, you can't even change the spark plugs without taking half the engine apart, and then you need to have the proprietary computer system to re-calibrate the electronic timing.
My 2015 wrangler seems to use the same torx screw for almost everything there is, and the best part is it came with a nice torx driver wrench with several heads in a little canvas tool kit lol.
I think you have to shop around to find cars that are easy to work on, but it's not impossible. On my chrysler 300 the spark plugs are right on top of the engine lol
I think you have to shop around to find cars that are easy to work on, but it's not impossible. On my chrysler 300 the spark plugs are right on top of the engine lol
Kingsville, Corpus Christi, Austin, TX
Tucson, Phoenix, Flagstaff, AZ
Regarding the statistic on urbanization, and given that I'm unable to speak to the impact of yet-to-materialize but inevitably arriving self-driving cars, many cities simply require a vehicle. Period. And rural areas require the same, for a completely different reason. Besides, I would consider a self-driving car a vehicle. As opposed to say public transit, bikes, segways, walking, or telepresence/phones.
I think you might have missed the point I was driving at. I'm not a gear head or car lover. I've never considered a car as something that impacted my status. And my cars have all been "commodity type" cars, that is, until I made memories with them, which would not have been possible without them.
There are already services which rent cars with unlimited miles and unlimited routes. Budget Rent-A-Car. But again, that is a vehicle. I've also bussed across the country and taken the train up the coast of Australia. Not the same thing. A road trip is not a road trip, blanket statement, if it does not allow for deviations in route and schedule, for any reason, or no reason whatsoever.
Before the arrival of Tesla, I would have said personal vehicles (self driving or not) were on their way out. But with advances in renewable energy, recyclable/ sustainable materials, and software which allows vehicles to either go their own way on dirt roads or coordinate enormous numbers of distinct vehicles in one super-efficient flow on shared, optimized infrastructure, it's my humble opinion that the personal vehicle has gained a second lease on life. Again, to me it simply boils down to the fact that there are too many pockets of awesome in this world. You can't build public infrastructure which makes them all accessible. That wouldn't make sense economically or ecologically. Philosophically it doesn't even make sense in many scenarios. It might be a pocket of awesome for the very reason that there are no convenient roads to it. And, no matter how many people we can squeeze into concrete jungles, there will always be a human desire to venture out, onto the road. As long as humans maintain their human nature, there will, in short, always be a human need for the personal vehicle to fulfill. And, by the nature of the need being fulfilled, that relationship between person and vehicle will not be mundane. Q.E.D.
Tucson, Phoenix, Flagstaff, AZ
Regarding the statistic on urbanization, and given that I'm unable to speak to the impact of yet-to-materialize but inevitably arriving self-driving cars, many cities simply require a vehicle. Period. And rural areas require the same, for a completely different reason. Besides, I would consider a self-driving car a vehicle. As opposed to say public transit, bikes, segways, walking, or telepresence/phones.
I think you might have missed the point I was driving at. I'm not a gear head or car lover. I've never considered a car as something that impacted my status. And my cars have all been "commodity type" cars, that is, until I made memories with them, which would not have been possible without them.
There are already services which rent cars with unlimited miles and unlimited routes. Budget Rent-A-Car. But again, that is a vehicle. I've also bussed across the country and taken the train up the coast of Australia. Not the same thing. A road trip is not a road trip, blanket statement, if it does not allow for deviations in route and schedule, for any reason, or no reason whatsoever.
Before the arrival of Tesla, I would have said personal vehicles (self driving or not) were on their way out. But with advances in renewable energy, recyclable/ sustainable materials, and software which allows vehicles to either go their own way on dirt roads or coordinate enormous numbers of distinct vehicles in one super-efficient flow on shared, optimized infrastructure, it's my humble opinion that the personal vehicle has gained a second lease on life. Again, to me it simply boils down to the fact that there are too many pockets of awesome in this world. You can't build public infrastructure which makes them all accessible. That wouldn't make sense economically or ecologically. Philosophically it doesn't even make sense in many scenarios. It might be a pocket of awesome for the very reason that there are no convenient roads to it. And, no matter how many people we can squeeze into concrete jungles, there will always be a human desire to venture out, onto the road. As long as humans maintain their human nature, there will, in short, always be a human need for the personal vehicle to fulfill. And, by the nature of the need being fulfilled, that relationship between person and vehicle will not be mundane. Q.E.D.
You can take Austin off that list: my friends and I got around fine without any cars.
As a 30 something who sold their car years ago and only owns one through marriage:I haven't needed to own one for quite some time. Will I ever rent one if I want to take a road trip? Sure, but I don't have a human need to own one again.
For me and the ilk I run with, personal vehicles are definitely on their way out.
As a 30 something who sold their car years ago and only owns one through marriage:I haven't needed to own one for quite some time. Will I ever rent one if I want to take a road trip? Sure, but I don't have a human need to own one again.
For me and the ilk I run with, personal vehicles are definitely on their way out.
It is weird they always mention Linus Torvald's car in American interviews. We frequently learn it is a German brand, one preferred by European taxi drivers and drug pushers and with somekind of personalized license plate. Did he have a car in Finland, or did he even have a driver's license? -- Nobody cared.
> Plus, there’s the sky-high cost of car insurance, an average of $1,800 a year in the Washington area and $1,100 nationwide.
Haha that's nothing. I paid $4600 liability-only on my first car in Waterloo, ON, Canada. Could have taken taxis everywhere for half that but I was young and wanted to show off :P
Haha that's nothing. I paid $4600 liability-only on my first car in Waterloo, ON, Canada. Could have taken taxis everywhere for half that but I was young and wanted to show off :P
The article mentions a decline in teeneger licenses. A big part of this is graduated licensing programs that most (all?) states introduced. Why get a license if you can only effectively use it to get to/from school?
mikerichards(3)
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_consp...