Ask news.YC: Good "day jobs" for hackers?
10 comments
I'm already a nurse, so I'm planning on working as a nurse after I finish my CS degree this summer. I have an associates degree (2 years) in nursing, and pay in the Bay area for nurses starts at about $35 an hour + 10-20% shift differential for working nights and weekends. A nurse fresh out of school starts at about $80,000 a year in this part of the country. And, there's a nursing shortage on, so if you have a pulse and a license, you can pretty much get a job.
I work 3 x 12 hours shifts each week in the Bay area and I started with 4 weeks paid vacation a year and 1 week of educational leave. If I'm broke picking up a extra shift or two isn't hard, and if I'm plush, I can cut down to part-time fairly easily. I already work the night shift and sleep during the day, so keeping hacker hours and coding all night coding is no problem at all.
Mind you, cleaning up other peoples effluvia is not my idea of a good time, and it's hard work. I've injured my back twice in twelve months. But, I don't think about code all day, so when I come home, I really want to program to get my mind off of work.
I've really disliked my job for years (thus the career change), but in 6 months, I'm going to have 4 days a week free and clear to start my start-up while getting paid for full time work. So, that makes up for some of the down-sides.
I work 3 x 12 hours shifts each week in the Bay area and I started with 4 weeks paid vacation a year and 1 week of educational leave. If I'm broke picking up a extra shift or two isn't hard, and if I'm plush, I can cut down to part-time fairly easily. I already work the night shift and sleep during the day, so keeping hacker hours and coding all night coding is no problem at all.
Mind you, cleaning up other peoples effluvia is not my idea of a good time, and it's hard work. I've injured my back twice in twelve months. But, I don't think about code all day, so when I come home, I really want to program to get my mind off of work.
I've really disliked my job for years (thus the career change), but in 6 months, I'm going to have 4 days a week free and clear to start my start-up while getting paid for full time work. So, that makes up for some of the down-sides.
One word: Smokejumper.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smokejumper
VC: So, what did you do before your startup?
You: I jumped out of airplanes into remote wildfires with nothing but a shovel and an axe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smokejumper
VC: So, what did you do before your startup?
You: I jumped out of airplanes into remote wildfires with nothing but a shovel and an axe.
waiting tables!
you work a 5 hour shift. you make about $20/hour (including tips). your schedule is extremely flexible. it takes zero experience to get in the door.
being a firefighter is a career. it takes a lot of education/certification and to actually get paid as a firefighter takes years of effort and dedication.
you work a 5 hour shift. you make about $20/hour (including tips). your schedule is extremely flexible. it takes zero experience to get in the door.
being a firefighter is a career. it takes a lot of education/certification and to actually get paid as a firefighter takes years of effort and dedication.
Waiting tables seems like a great one -- not a lot of "job security", but plenty of demand, so it should be fairly easy to match your amount of work to the amount of money you need to get back to work on more interesting things.
Firefighting seems to vary from city to city, but in many cities, it appears you can start as a firefighter with 6 mos. training, and the starting pay is decent ($55k in seattle, for example).
That brings up an interesting question, though: if you can make $55k/yr working 10 days out of every 30 in job x, are you less likely to succeed in your startup? How much of entrepreneurial success is motivated by need? (The existence of serial entrepreneurs would seem to indicate "not much".)
Firefighting seems to vary from city to city, but in many cities, it appears you can start as a firefighter with 6 mos. training, and the starting pay is decent ($55k in seattle, for example).
That brings up an interesting question, though: if you can make $55k/yr working 10 days out of every 30 in job x, are you less likely to succeed in your startup? How much of entrepreneurial success is motivated by need? (The existence of serial entrepreneurs would seem to indicate "not much".)
Chicago police make $60k after 18 months. That is actually a lot of money for any entry level position in Chicago. As far as I can tell, they work three 12 hour shifts a week. It looks like interesting work that leaves a lot of time for living.
So far, the best one I've been able to come up with is firefighting. It provides enough money to survive, and requires 10 days of work per month (and my firefighter friend tells me station life is often quiet enough that you can often work on other things while on duty).
It doesn't provide much opportunity for networking or solving interesting problems on the job, but the job security, reasonable pay, benefits, and low hours seem like a great deal.
Any other ideas?
It doesn't provide much opportunity for networking or solving interesting problems on the job, but the job security, reasonable pay, benefits, and low hours seem like a great deal.
Any other ideas?
Good consulting gigs can give you insights into problems that people face in the 'real world', some of which might make good startup ideas.
Agreed. I'm currently working 50%. I work every other week on a consulting job that pays the bills for an entire month for me and my family. The other 50% it's my time (and some extra time with the little ones).
John.
John.
Hey John, do you mind expanding on what sort of consulting this is? How did you manage to arrange your word schedule that way?
Sure.
I'm doing two types of work mainly: software development and management consulting. On the software development side of things I've been doing work on the backend of web sites (the most well know is http://www.signal-spam.fr/). On the management consulting side I'm helping a start-up that's growing rapidly to put in place some appropriate processes in engineering so that they don't explode :-)
I arrange my schedule like that by telling clients that I'm not available at certain times (the times I want for myself), using the white lie that I'm busy with a different client (which just happens to be me).
So far, two years now, I've managed to juggle that and bring in enough money. But there's been some standard of living decline as purchases for expensive items (say that new video camera I'm ogling) have been delayed.
John.
I'm doing two types of work mainly: software development and management consulting. On the software development side of things I've been doing work on the backend of web sites (the most well know is http://www.signal-spam.fr/). On the management consulting side I'm helping a start-up that's growing rapidly to put in place some appropriate processes in engineering so that they don't explode :-)
I arrange my schedule like that by telling clients that I'm not available at certain times (the times I want for myself), using the white lie that I'm busy with a different client (which just happens to be me).
So far, two years now, I've managed to juggle that and bring in enough money. But there's been some standard of living decline as purchases for expensive items (say that new video camera I'm ogling) have been delayed.
John.
I'm freelancing as a software consultant/contractor and living like a college student.
Do you have some kind of subject area around which you'd like to do a startup? If so, find work where you can meet people with problems in that subject area.
If you want to do consumer-based software, work somewhere where you can hear a lot about what consumers want in software -- perhaps a Best Buy? If you want to do medical-based software, find a job helping install computer systems for doctors. For large subject areas, there are all sorts of entry-level jobs.
I've found that the more people I meet with and interact with, the more I think up solutions for those people. So if possible, surround yourself with your future market.
If you want to do consumer-based software, work somewhere where you can hear a lot about what consumers want in software -- perhaps a Best Buy? If you want to do medical-based software, find a job helping install computer systems for doctors. For large subject areas, there are all sorts of entry-level jobs.
I've found that the more people I meet with and interact with, the more I think up solutions for those people. So if possible, surround yourself with your future market.
>If you want to do consumer-based software, work somewhere where you can hear a lot about what consumers want in software -- perhaps a Best Buy?
One could get to know consumers very well by doing in home spyware removal and general "computer lessons." You can charge as much as any other consultant if you present yourself professionally to the right people.
One could get to know consumers very well by doing in home spyware removal and general "computer lessons." You can charge as much as any other consultant if you present yourself professionally to the right people.
This thread has some really terrible advice.
Do you care to offer better?
This question isn't really aimed at people who can afford to live in cardboard boxes while working on the Next Big Thing. Some of us need a relatively high baseline level of stability while we pursue chaotic business opportunities.
This question isn't really aimed at people who can afford to live in cardboard boxes while working on the Next Big Thing. Some of us need a relatively high baseline level of stability while we pursue chaotic business opportunities.
A full-time startup job and a decent stable job are somewhat conflicting. But the easiest thing I can think of to try to solve this conflict is to move to an area with really good job opportunities. This is what prevents me from taking up the good suggestion of doing consulting - I don't live in an area where this happens or know people that do.
Probably the best for stability is to join an existing startup and negotiate with a preference for salary over equity.
If it comes down to you considering some minimum-wage job, like these guys are suggesting, and you still want to do your own thing then I'd say you're better off trying to find a quick investment from an angel.
I really think that there is nothing more important in a startup than the employees (your) time.
Probably the best for stability is to join an existing startup and negotiate with a preference for salary over equity.
If it comes down to you considering some minimum-wage job, like these guys are suggesting, and you still want to do your own thing then I'd say you're better off trying to find a quick investment from an angel.
I really think that there is nothing more important in a startup than the employees (your) time.
I think if you need high baseline of stability while you work on your own stuff, spend some time finding a good long-term consulting gig and then be disciplined about it. If you can get away with working 2/4 weeks, then the other 2 are for your startup. Some clients may want you to report daily, in this case, I would suggest that you work half as long as a normal work day to fulfill their reporting desires. Its a bit more annoying but once you build trust, I'm sure they wouldn't have a problem.
I did IT Consulting for 3 years while I figured things out and funded my company, pay in Southern California was like $25 - $35/hour and really easy work.
What jobs give you the most freedom to do cool things and build new companies while giving you enough money to stay alive?