Google's Captcha in Firefox vs. in Chrome(grumpy.website)
grumpy.website
Google's Captcha in Firefox vs. in Chrome
https://grumpy.website/post/0RzW4elEN
483 comments
I've never understood what happened to reCAPTCHA, it was originally so great and is now just so, so toxic.
Originally it was an awesome solution based on OCR'ing books that usually worked quickly on the first try, and almost never took more than two.
Then it turned into a single checkbox (analyzing mouse movement) so it was even faster... and I remember some simple image-based like "select the images of cats" that were also easy to get right. So even better.
But THEN... in the past couple of years, the image-matching started asking exclusively for analysis of street images, that has two huge problems:
1) The images are so blurry and ambiguous it's really hard to get right, it feels like a test designed to make you fail
2) You never know how far you have to go -- you keep clicking items, they keep replacing them with new ones, and there's zero indication of if you're almost done or if you're getting better or worse.
Once I did one for three minutes straight, neither passing nor failing, until I just gave up and left the page... if it's a bug, that should never happen. If that's supposed to be able to happen, that's the apex of asshole design. Either way, it's a failure in every way.
Originally it was an awesome solution based on OCR'ing books that usually worked quickly on the first try, and almost never took more than two.
Then it turned into a single checkbox (analyzing mouse movement) so it was even faster... and I remember some simple image-based like "select the images of cats" that were also easy to get right. So even better.
But THEN... in the past couple of years, the image-matching started asking exclusively for analysis of street images, that has two huge problems:
1) The images are so blurry and ambiguous it's really hard to get right, it feels like a test designed to make you fail
2) You never know how far you have to go -- you keep clicking items, they keep replacing them with new ones, and there's zero indication of if you're almost done or if you're getting better or worse.
Once I did one for three minutes straight, neither passing nor failing, until I just gave up and left the page... if it's a bug, that should never happen. If that's supposed to be able to happen, that's the apex of asshole design. Either way, it's a failure in every way.
Big rant, there are few things I hate more than filling out their endless useless CAPTCHA's when browsing websites that have nothing to do with Google.
Google is a hypocritical pile of burning . They use bots right? They scrape websites, they infest everything from my banking website to console emulators with their tracking, and yet we little people are not allowed to scrape or interface with the web programmatically.
I want them to burn so badly, I hope the EU breaks them up. Screw captcha, screw AWP, screw them.
Google is a hypocritical pile of burning . They use bots right? They scrape websites, they infest everything from my banking website to console emulators with their tracking, and yet we little people are not allowed to scrape or interface with the web programmatically.
I want them to burn so badly, I hope the EU breaks them up. Screw captcha, screw AWP, screw them.
I thought this was just me and their stupid caption being impossible for even humans to solve; turns out I was just being gaslighted this entire time and they're just discriminating against Firefox users? How does the EU or someone not shut down this sort of anti-competative monopolostic nosense? I didn't think I could get more furious about having to struggle with these captions all day, but somehow I am. Please everyone stop using recaptcha on your sites, it's not worth the pain it costs your users.
Google Captcha is a complete mess at this point and I often leave websites that use it if it's not essential to what I am doing
Turbo Tax uses Google Captcha when trying to import information from financial institutions.
While filing taxes, on several occasions I had to just give up and try again after several hours because the Captcha won't let me pass through and after several attempts Turbo Tax will throw an error - to come back later.
It was literally a Nightmare
While filing taxes, on several occasions I had to just give up and try again after several hours because the Captcha won't let me pass through and after several attempts Turbo Tax will throw an error - to come back later.
It was literally a Nightmare
The slow animation is the worst. You really want to punch someone responsible in the face.
And I never figure out how to solve the traffic light riddle.
And I never figure out how to solve the traffic light riddle.
While relatable, this is just a low effort post more suited for Twitter or Reddit.
For a fair comparison OP would need to use clean browser profiles on fresh IPs. Like this it is just fan-service for Google Captcha victims (like me).
For a fair comparison OP would need to use clean browser profiles on fresh IPs. Like this it is just fan-service for Google Captcha victims (like me).
FYI. Title is misleading. This experience has nothing to do Firefox vs Chrome. Result is because of 3rd party cookie and tracker blocking. I had same and even worse (I was not able to get through captcha) experience on chrome itself because I have 3rd party cookies disabled and couple privacy oriented extensions running.
I'm from the UK and often get very American questions. Such as "select all the images with cross-walks". This isn't really a phrase we have over here, so when I first got this I had no idea what I was meant to be looking for in the array of random pictures and actually had to look it up to get past it. If you're going to force me to do a captcha, at least localise the damn questions.
Do other non-American's get this as well?
Do other non-American's get this as well?
I believe this is part of a greater Google strategy of using their monopoly power.
I’ve noticed that in the last week, Google no longer provides a link to the non-amp version of pages. Previously, you could press two button taps to get to the non-amp page, but now that ability has been removed. This sucks because Amp doesn’t always support all the features of a normal site, like Reddit or blogs (commenting).
I worry how Google will abuse this in the future. Right now they control the first page you visit after leaving Google through AMP, but you can usually find a link to the home page of a site. In the future, they may restrict it further.
I’ve noticed that in the last week, Google no longer provides a link to the non-amp version of pages. Previously, you could press two button taps to get to the non-amp page, but now that ability has been removed. This sucks because Amp doesn’t always support all the features of a normal site, like Reddit or blogs (commenting).
I worry how Google will abuse this in the future. Right now they control the first page you visit after leaving Google through AMP, but you can usually find a link to the home page of a site. In the future, they may restrict it further.
For Google Recaptcha, I use GreaseMonkey with an user script:
"Speed Up Google Captcha"
"Makes Google Captcha works faster by removing slow visual transitions and unnecessary delays."
https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/382039-speed-up-google-cap...
"Speed Up Google Captcha"
"Makes Google Captcha works faster by removing slow visual transitions and unnecessary delays."
https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/382039-speed-up-google-cap...
Ha! Been there, done that. I registered with Patreon (using Firefox), then tried to login (using Firefox) after verifying my email address. Nineteen (19) Captcha screens later and I gave up. Seriously. Bastards (and apologies to the Creatives I was trying to contribute to).
As a developer who has worked with reCAPTCHA in the past and as a diehard Firefox user, what likely happened here is a form of shadow banning.
You're moving too fast; your mouse and mouse clicks are "too good" to be human. Try solving the reCAPTCHA slower and you'll see wildly different results, or, purposely fail one reCAPTCHA to get easier ones.
reCAPTCHA tech is crazy; reCAPTCHAs are not simple web forms and Javascript, they're a sandboxed and monitored 'window' to a Google server. If you solve too many reCAPTCHAs too quickly (ie. when you are testing a web page, or are rotating your passwords on many websites) then Google's servers will try to rate limit you with slow animations and harder reCAPTCHAs.
You're moving too fast; your mouse and mouse clicks are "too good" to be human. Try solving the reCAPTCHA slower and you'll see wildly different results, or, purposely fail one reCAPTCHA to get easier ones.
reCAPTCHA tech is crazy; reCAPTCHAs are not simple web forms and Javascript, they're a sandboxed and monitored 'window' to a Google server. If you solve too many reCAPTCHAs too quickly (ie. when you are testing a web page, or are rotating your passwords on many websites) then Google's servers will try to rate limit you with slow animations and harder reCAPTCHAs.
The fire hydrant example... I deal with this every day. It takes soooo looooong to load, it's really ridiculous.
The Google captcha enrages me. Why should I train their stupid AI?
I find it incredible that modern reCAPTCHA exists and is legal.
Aside from the the obviously concerning censorship that happens if you try to access reCAPTCHA-locked sites over Tor, it is literally forcing internet users to do free labour for Google so that can train their AI for whatever project they're doing.
So not only is it a tax on using the internet (paid in seconds to minutes of human existence each time -- I bet reCAPTCHA has collectively cost humanity thousands of lifetimes of wasted effort solving stupid puzzles) and it creates censorship, it also is an act of charity on our part that we provide Google free work with no benefit for ourselves. Given that they literally pay people to do (something similar to) what we are doing for free, I wonder it there are labour law arguments to be made (we aren't paid anything for this work which Google clearly is willing to employ people to do).
Aside from the the obviously concerning censorship that happens if you try to access reCAPTCHA-locked sites over Tor, it is literally forcing internet users to do free labour for Google so that can train their AI for whatever project they're doing.
So not only is it a tax on using the internet (paid in seconds to minutes of human existence each time -- I bet reCAPTCHA has collectively cost humanity thousands of lifetimes of wasted effort solving stupid puzzles) and it creates censorship, it also is an act of charity on our part that we provide Google free work with no benefit for ourselves. Given that they literally pay people to do (something similar to) what we are doing for free, I wonder it there are labour law arguments to be made (we aren't paid anything for this work which Google clearly is willing to employ people to do).
This is the experience with the `privacy.resistFingerprinting` flag set to true.
A while back I made a few try to see how the behavior change with different settings and extensions, you can see the result here: https://github.com/google/recaptcha/issues/268#issuecomment-...
I solved the problem by using an extension that toggle that flag: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/toggle-resist...
I solved the problem by using an extension that toggle that flag: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/toggle-resist...
Would it be possible to build a Firefox plugin that creates and isolates the requisite cookies to allow reputation to be built, but at least partially maintains privacy?
I was thinking maybe something that has 10 difference Google sessions, and shards them depending on the website, deciding which to send to the Captcha. You'd build reputation at 1/10th the speed, but you'd still potentially build it. Or, one that allows you to create a random Gmail account and then use that as your identity across the different sites. Perfect privacy would be hard, but improved privacy should be doable.
Alternatively, getting something like blinded identity tokens widely used would be good.
I was thinking maybe something that has 10 difference Google sessions, and shards them depending on the website, deciding which to send to the Captcha. You'd build reputation at 1/10th the speed, but you'd still potentially build it. Or, one that allows you to create a random Gmail account and then use that as your identity across the different sites. Perfect privacy would be hard, but improved privacy should be doable.
Alternatively, getting something like blinded identity tokens widely used would be good.
I consider putting the following on my cv:
2016-2019: working for google - analyzing street footage for implementing AI for self driving cars.
Maybe I should also invoice google for the effort.
2016-2019: working for google - analyzing street footage for implementing AI for self driving cars.
Maybe I should also invoice google for the effort.
I there any anti reCaptcha or anti Google, that I can donate to? I want to donate a small amount every time Google forces me to solve their problems.
Are you using Canvas Blocker or similar extensions ? As a FF user I also have to go thru 3-4 captcha everywhere and I'm pretty sure it's because the system is having trouble giving me a stable fingerprint.
The latest captchas are so hard that when I encounter one, it really feels like I am engaged in an unpaid labor relationship with Google.
It makes me sad that they are so pervasive or I would categorically refuse to engage with any site that uses reCaptcha.
It makes me sad that they are so pervasive or I would categorically refuse to engage with any site that uses reCaptcha.
This is especially prevalent in the Google mobile site tester in Firefox. In FF you have to do the Captcha almost every damn time. Switch to Chrome and it stopped immediately for me.
Sometimes it's stairs, and they ask you to click all the stairs, but there's an inch of stairs overlapping one window, so you aren't sure if you should click that window because of the pixel or not.
This whole captcha joke and firefox made me hate Google more than anything else.
This whole captcha joke and firefox made me hate Google more than anything else.
It's simple; any shitty website that uses this garbage—don't use it. If there is a "contact us" page or email, tell them why you will no longer use it.
If it's your bank's site, move a bank. You say "oh, it's a lot of work just for some captcha"; yes it is, but this is the only way this clowns will learn. When 1000 people leave a bank for a competing one and say "I left because your site employs captcha", it will magically disappear. I've seen it happen.
If it's your bank's site, move a bank. You say "oh, it's a lot of work just for some captcha"; yes it is, but this is the only way this clowns will learn. When 1000 people leave a bank for a competing one and say "I left because your site employs captcha", it will magically disappear. I've seen it happen.
I'm a Firefox user and I did encounter some issues with reCaptchas in the past but this video doesn't convince me at all.
For reference I post regularly on 4chan (not compulsively but maybe a dozen comments a day on average) and if you don't have a pass you have to fill the captcha every time. I only use Firefox. I definitely experienced what this video shows on Firefox in the past (the super-slow loading images) but it felt more like a bug than anything else and it doesn't represent the typical experience. Maybe I tripped one of Google's bot filters somehow and I ended up with a reinforced captcha, or there was a bug somewhere.
The Chrome section of the video is a lot closer to what I see usually, but they make me go through two challenges in a row typically (although that might be 4chan's settings at play).
I'm all for the Chrome hate if it means that people switch to Firefox but I think we need harder data than a short video to call shenanigans on that one.
Off topic rant: the fact that a post with such lack of substance manages to reach 700 votes in 3 hours is frankly depressing, it has no place on this website IMO.
For reference I post regularly on 4chan (not compulsively but maybe a dozen comments a day on average) and if you don't have a pass you have to fill the captcha every time. I only use Firefox. I definitely experienced what this video shows on Firefox in the past (the super-slow loading images) but it felt more like a bug than anything else and it doesn't represent the typical experience. Maybe I tripped one of Google's bot filters somehow and I ended up with a reinforced captcha, or there was a bug somewhere.
The Chrome section of the video is a lot closer to what I see usually, but they make me go through two challenges in a row typically (although that might be 4chan's settings at play).
I'm all for the Chrome hate if it means that people switch to Firefox but I think we need harder data than a short video to call shenanigans on that one.
Off topic rant: the fact that a post with such lack of substance manages to reach 700 votes in 3 hours is frankly depressing, it has no place on this website IMO.
In my experience[0], the captchas are rotated regardless of the browser. The captcha shown each time seems to be chosen based on some sort of hidden “trust level”, which fluctuates across attempts based on your choices.
The starting level, I suspect, is heavily influenced by browser settings and many other factors. With that in mind, and assuming that
1) trust inversely correlates with anonymity,
2) people using Firefox tend to be more tech-savvy and careful about their privacy, and
3) tech-savvy people using Chrome probably won’t bother locking it down, since it “talks to Google anyway”,
I’d be disinclined to believe Google actually discriminates against browsers—no matter how compelling a narrative this may seem—until I have a complete picture of OP’s setup (from browser settings to OS and connection).
[0] Last year there was a period I was getting many captchas (either my location or AWS VPN caused me to be considered “untrusted”); I actively tried to figure out how to get past it without giving the algorithm what it wants, so I could go through a dozen of these captcha screens in one browser window. I use Safari, Firefox and Chrome routinely.
The starting level, I suspect, is heavily influenced by browser settings and many other factors. With that in mind, and assuming that
1) trust inversely correlates with anonymity,
2) people using Firefox tend to be more tech-savvy and careful about their privacy, and
3) tech-savvy people using Chrome probably won’t bother locking it down, since it “talks to Google anyway”,
I’d be disinclined to believe Google actually discriminates against browsers—no matter how compelling a narrative this may seem—until I have a complete picture of OP’s setup (from browser settings to OS and connection).
[0] Last year there was a period I was getting many captchas (either my location or AWS VPN caused me to be considered “untrusted”); I actively tried to figure out how to get past it without giving the algorithm what it wants, so I could go through a dozen of these captcha screens in one browser window. I use Safari, Firefox and Chrome routinely.
Those storefront photos were remarkably clear/unambiguous, compared to some I've gotten.
When logging into an account I needed to log into, maybe a couple years ago, they'd jerk me around in the manner of this grumpy.website example, but more. One time, it went on for several topics, for what seemed around 10 minutes. I pay money for that account.
This obnoxious annoyance is in addition to the offense of some company letting third-party code from a mass-surveillance company not only into their pages (which almost every company with a Web site does, sadly) but also into their authentication page. Much more important services on the Web do not need captchas for login to accounts that were paid for. Now, every time I get a hassle to log in to my account I pay for, plus directly leak that info to a surveillance company. It makes me regret paying money for the account, like the company are oblivious or don't care, and I won't have much loyalty when the right competitor appears.
When logging into an account I needed to log into, maybe a couple years ago, they'd jerk me around in the manner of this grumpy.website example, but more. One time, it went on for several topics, for what seemed around 10 minutes. I pay money for that account.
This obnoxious annoyance is in addition to the offense of some company letting third-party code from a mass-surveillance company not only into their pages (which almost every company with a Web site does, sadly) but also into their authentication page. Much more important services on the Web do not need captchas for login to accounts that were paid for. Now, every time I get a hassle to log in to my account I pay for, plus directly leak that info to a surveillance company. It makes me regret paying money for the account, like the company are oblivious or don't care, and I won't have much loyalty when the right competitor appears.
This is why once I switched to FF I also switched to DuckDuckGo
If you're a developer, please consider replacing reCAPTCHA on your site with an alternative. reCAPTCHA discriminates against people with disabilities and those who seek privacy, and it gaslights you into thinking you did not solve the challenge correctly, which is plain cruel.
Here are some reCAPTCHA alternatives: https://www.w3.org/TR/turingtest/