Resetting the timer in my toothbrush(nonnullish.pages.dev)
nonnullish.pages.dev
Resetting the timer in my toothbrush
https://nonnullish.pages.dev/posts/resetting-the-timer-in-my-toothbrush/
112 comments
Hmm. The article says that after 360 minutes of use, it will tell you to replace. A regular tooth cleaning cycle is 2 minutes. So it’s 4 minutes for morning plus evening. 360/4=90 days..usually I replace my toothbrush head every 2-3 months, and I think this is what dentists also recommend. Why would I ever want to reset this counter?
Yeah the bristles wear out after use, cool images of new vs used from an electron microscope: https://youtu.be/cwN983PnJoA?si=2M0XEvND_VDqfcKO
Toothpaste is grit 600-800 omg that's really rough, but it's Colgate and I know that's very abrasive. I just never knew the equivalent in grit.
I actually use a toothpaste with low RDA (abrasiveness) of 40-48. (VITIS)
List of RDA values: https://www.familydentisttree.com/abrasive-toothpaste-whats-...
I actually use a toothpaste with low RDA (abrasiveness) of 40-48. (VITIS)
List of RDA values: https://www.familydentisttree.com/abrasive-toothpaste-whats-...
Philips and other toothbrush manufacturers should somehow include this imagery in their marketing materials about why you really need to change the brush every 3 months.
> Why would I ever want to reset this counter?
People's preferences, habits and uses vary a lot. Since you are asking for an advice, I think you fit the stereotypical user that would never want to reset the counter.
For my personally I feel like I should replace it based on my habits and needs, not when forced by some hardware.
People's preferences, habits and uses vary a lot. Since you are asking for an advice, I think you fit the stereotypical user that would never want to reset the counter.
For my personally I feel like I should replace it based on my habits and needs, not when forced by some hardware.
How long before you are ingesting significant amounts of microplastics from the bristles dissolving?
Microplastics should be the least of your concerns. You ingest far more reactive substances just from food and breathing.
Especially mouth breathers.
--
I always "pre-brush" - I brush my teeth with the brush, water no paste.
Rinse.
Brush again with paste.
Rinse.
I always use hot water.
I floss a lot. and I use peroxide as a mouthwash occasionally.
But you should have a pretty good idea of the state of your brush's bristles and everything in general without the need for a freaking counter, e-waste and toxic chemicals that device will leave behind.
I also keep a box of bamboo biodegradale tooth brushes on hand for guests and travel/camping/hiking.
--
I always "pre-brush" - I brush my teeth with the brush, water no paste.
Rinse.
Brush again with paste.
Rinse.
I always use hot water.
I floss a lot. and I use peroxide as a mouthwash occasionally.
But you should have a pretty good idea of the state of your brush's bristles and everything in general without the need for a freaking counter, e-waste and toxic chemicals that device will leave behind.
I also keep a box of bamboo biodegradale tooth brushes on hand for guests and travel/camping/hiking.
My dentist informed me I should not rinse after, it makes sense, leave the fluoride on the teeth to act. I still do, as I find it cloying otherwise, but am focused on clearing the foamed-toothpaste from my tongue and do not 'swish' as I would have in the past.
Of course this advice may have been tailored to my needs somewhat.
Of course this advice may have been tailored to my needs somewhat.
You can also use a fluoride rinse after brushing.
If that's an issue I suppose you could brush your teeth, rinse your mouth, and then use a fluoride mouthwash like act
IIRC mouthwash has been debunked as a post-brush routine and is better deployed post sugar consumption in lieu of immediate brushing.
https://nypost.com/2021/07/13/dentist-warns-to-never-use-mou... https://askthedentist.com/mouthwash-risks-and-alternatives/ https://www.rd.com/article/health-danger-mouthwash/
https://nypost.com/2021/07/13/dentist-warns-to-never-use-mou... https://askthedentist.com/mouthwash-risks-and-alternatives/ https://www.rd.com/article/health-danger-mouthwash/
Categorical statements like these are infuriating. What has been “debunked” is that you should not use mouth wash that has a lower fluoride content than the toothpaste you used right before, or mouth wash that is anti-bacterial.
Not all mouthwashes and toothpastes are equal, therefore this categorical statement is wrong, and nothing has been “debunked”.
The mouth wash I use is the one recommended by my dentist, it is not anti bacterial and it has 0.2% fluoride.
The last article you posted simply lies:
> Mouthwash contains an antiseptic compound called chlorhexidine.
No it doesn’t. Not all mouthwash contains that. I recognize it though, because it’s what I use as an antiseptic alcohol to clean bruises.
Not all mouthwashes and toothpastes are equal, therefore this categorical statement is wrong, and nothing has been “debunked”.
The mouth wash I use is the one recommended by my dentist, it is not anti bacterial and it has 0.2% fluoride.
The last article you posted simply lies:
> Mouthwash contains an antiseptic compound called chlorhexidine.
No it doesn’t. Not all mouthwash contains that. I recognize it though, because it’s what I use as an antiseptic alcohol to clean bruises.
Chlorhexidine isn't an alcohol.
Why would a bruise need cleaning? A bruise is always caused by internal bleeding into the interstitial tissues which does not break through the skin.
Why would a bruise need cleaning? A bruise is always caused by internal bleeding into the interstitial tissues which does not break through the skin.
I think you may be misunderstanding someone who isn't a native English speaker.
I believe they, restated, indicated that they are aware of the alcohol content, because they use it to clean wounds to the skin.
I believe they, restated, indicated that they are aware of the alcohol content, because they use it to clean wounds to the skin.
English is indeed not my first language and I wasn’t aware that the definition of a “bruise” required there to be no breaking of the skin, I always thought it just meant a light wound, like you’d get from falling off a bike at low speed.
The reason I mentioned alcohol is that chlorhexidine is often combined with alcohol in products used for cleaning wounds, but you are correct, it’s not an alcohol.
Regardless, the point of my comment was not on how to properly clean wounds, but that you do not need to rinse your mouth with “wound-cleaners”, not all mouthwashes contain this and that means that the statement that mouthwashes are “debunked” is complete nonsense.
The reason I mentioned alcohol is that chlorhexidine is often combined with alcohol in products used for cleaning wounds, but you are correct, it’s not an alcohol.
Regardless, the point of my comment was not on how to properly clean wounds, but that you do not need to rinse your mouth with “wound-cleaners”, not all mouthwashes contain this and that means that the statement that mouthwashes are “debunked” is complete nonsense.
Hey I said IIRC - IANAD.
What has been “debunked” is that you should not use mouth wash [...] that is anti-bacterial.
Fact: that is approximately all mouthwash. Sure maybe there is some whitening only stuff or other specialist cases, but practically speaking ~everything commonly available as mouthwash is anti-bacterial (source: just checked >20 products at major retailers).
It appears that our comprehension is mutual.
What has been “debunked” is that you should not use mouth wash [...] that is anti-bacterial.
Fact: that is approximately all mouthwash. Sure maybe there is some whitening only stuff or other specialist cases, but practically speaking ~everything commonly available as mouthwash is anti-bacterial (source: just checked >20 products at major retailers).
It appears that our comprehension is mutual.
If you brush for only 2 minutes, I strongly suggest to make an appointment with a respected dental hygienist as soon as possible as you are almost guaranteed to have an insufficient dental hygiene. Best case with a good electric toothbrush and interdental brushes it probably takes 4-6 minutes for the electric toothbrush and a minute or two for the interdental brushes assuming almost ideal teeth.
More info in a sibling comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38758871
More info in a sibling comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38758871
I've brushed for no more than 2 minutes 2x/day for basically my entire lifetime. I have no cavities at 50. At each cleaning at various dentists the hygienist has remarked how little buildup I have and the dentist typically reports my teeth and gums as in superb health. I drink coffee regularly.
So I think your comment is nonsense for me.
But interestingly in your comments here and elsewhere about brushing, I see no mention of one of the most -- if not the most-- important kinds of brushing, which is using a flossing brush with, crucially, the right technique, which is not much like other brushing, plus baking soda and a drop of 3% peroxide. Most dental offices aren't teaching this at all, but there is plenty of review of standard brushing "at the gumline and on the surfaces of the teeth", as well as plenty of new and hyped imaging types or surreptitious promotion of dental products...* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cow6wNRJqoo
This is in addition to standard brushing.
But interestingly in your comments here and elsewhere about brushing, I see no mention of one of the most -- if not the most-- important kinds of brushing, which is using a flossing brush with, crucially, the right technique, which is not much like other brushing, plus baking soda and a drop of 3% peroxide. Most dental offices aren't teaching this at all, but there is plenty of review of standard brushing "at the gumline and on the surfaces of the teeth", as well as plenty of new and hyped imaging types or surreptitious promotion of dental products...* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cow6wNRJqoo
This is in addition to standard brushing.
It seems interdental brushes are a kind of flossing brushes perhaps? It is quite important to use the right size(s) of interdental brushes - that can be measured at your dental hygiene appointment. I am quite lucky I can get by with two distinct sizes.
I fear mixing sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) with a bit of low concentration peroxide is more or less going to cancel each other out chemically and the suspension is going to have an abrasive effect on the plaque/ tartar buildup but also your tooth enamel. However I am going to ask about it.
Hydrogen peroxide can whiten your teeth a bit but can also cause higher sensitivity. On its own it shouldn't hurt and it will act as a disinfectant but probably shouldn't be used long term on a regular basis. If you have an infection I would recommend using chlorhexidine < 2% concentration (2 % is only prescribed and is really disgusting, 0.2% can be bought in a pharmacy without prescription and is obviously not that strong but also far less disgusting). You probably should not use it for longer than ~2 weeks but as it has a hardly bearable taste you will happily stop using it as soon as possible.
I fear mixing sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) with a bit of low concentration peroxide is more or less going to cancel each other out chemically and the suspension is going to have an abrasive effect on the plaque/ tartar buildup but also your tooth enamel. However I am going to ask about it.
Hydrogen peroxide can whiten your teeth a bit but can also cause higher sensitivity. On its own it shouldn't hurt and it will act as a disinfectant but probably shouldn't be used long term on a regular basis. If you have an infection I would recommend using chlorhexidine < 2% concentration (2 % is only prescribed and is really disgusting, 0.2% can be bought in a pharmacy without prescription and is obviously not that strong but also far less disgusting). You probably should not use it for longer than ~2 weeks but as it has a hardly bearable taste you will happily stop using it as soon as possible.
There is no way this is correct. You yourself say that specifically, 2 minutes is a myth, but give no reason that it should be 4+ minutes.
There are people with lots of issues, there are people who never had issues better toothpaste was common. It really depends on a lot of factors including diet. Don't be so quick to judge others' approach to dental hygiene.
Would you read my sibling comment I linked, you would know that the toothpaste is not that important. You can successfully brush without it and not have problems. Yes a sugary or acidic diet is worse for your teeth.
The 4-6 minutes and 1-2 minutes interdental is based on an estimate by a professional dental hygienist. The most correct instruction of course being that you should brush your teeth until they are clean.
The 4-6 minutes and 1-2 minutes interdental is based on an estimate by a professional dental hygienist. The most correct instruction of course being that you should brush your teeth until they are clean.
Fiddlesticks.
I brunch ONCE a day for 2 minutes with an electric toothbrush and have essentially perfect tooth health. I also floss every day. My dentist at my most recent checkup said “whatever you’re doing just keep doing it”
I brunch ONCE a day for 2 minutes with an electric toothbrush and have essentially perfect tooth health. I also floss every day. My dentist at my most recent checkup said “whatever you’re doing just keep doing it”
Sure, that is already better than the average. If you feel your gums are healthy and teeth are clean sure, keep going as you are.
It is different in each country, but usually a dental hygienist has a slightly different viewpoint than a dentist. Some dentists don't care that much for gum health - they make money repairing/ extracting teeth after all and some are little too greedy. Dental hygienists are evaluated based on how well they prevent damage and further health issues/ heal the existing problems. They make more money initially when they perform deep scaling (if they are legally allowed to do that in that country) or later when your teeth are healthy doing clinical whitening. Regular dental hygiene is only mildly lucrative. Good deep scaling is exhausting however so you cannot do more than a 2-3 deep scaling patients per day if you are thorough. You have to fill out the day ideally with normal hygiene, ideally stabilized patients where it is more a checkup. Whitening is the best bang for the buck so to say. Not exhausting, more money per time than regular hygiene session.
It is different in each country, but usually a dental hygienist has a slightly different viewpoint than a dentist. Some dentists don't care that much for gum health - they make money repairing/ extracting teeth after all and some are little too greedy. Dental hygienists are evaluated based on how well they prevent damage and further health issues/ heal the existing problems. They make more money initially when they perform deep scaling (if they are legally allowed to do that in that country) or later when your teeth are healthy doing clinical whitening. Regular dental hygiene is only mildly lucrative. Good deep scaling is exhausting however so you cannot do more than a 2-3 deep scaling patients per day if you are thorough. You have to fill out the day ideally with normal hygiene, ideally stabilized patients where it is more a checkup. Whitening is the best bang for the buck so to say. Not exhausting, more money per time than regular hygiene session.
Huh, I have been doing 2 minutes for years (probably just like most other electric toothbrush users) and have regular dental appointments at different locations. No dental hygienist or dentist ever raised any issue over my dental hygiene. I'd take their opinion over a random person on the Internet.
Please read the sibling comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38761906
What? All the electric toothbrush I have come with a two minutes timer. Never had a single cavity.
There is no particular reason it should be 2 minutes. Certainly not for both jaws, if you took 2 minutes per jaw that would be more reasonable.
The point of this timer is probably (I don't know that for a fact) to push most people to brush much longer than they would as most people still brush for only 30-45 seconds a day.
The point of this timer is probably (I don't know that for a fact) to push most people to brush much longer than they would as most people still brush for only 30-45 seconds a day.
I think these consumer-hostile devices and brands need to be named and shamed and ideally, some kind of consumer movement to boycott them. Unfortunately, too many people either don't care or believe that they want that functionality.
Very far from hostile. I have this toothbrush and the only thing it does is beep ONCE, when it thinks the head is done.
After that I will only show the "please change" indicator, but will still brush just fine.
I was actually shocked by how user friendly the whole experience is. It never prevented me from doing anything "not recommended", it'll warn me, sure. But then go right back to accepting my imput.
I was actually shocked by how user friendly the whole experience is. It never prevented me from doing anything "not recommended", it'll warn me, sure. But then go right back to accepting my imput.
Very much unlike my hostile GE fridge, which will refuse to dispense ice and water after a grace period expires when the water filter is too old.
Old filters can become breeding grounds for bacteria, as they can build up biological contaminants over time. The more biological contamination, the more for bacteria to feed on.
So there is a health danger, perhaps? Not sure how likely.
(Some municipalities use a lot of UV, and less chlorine and other chemicals to kill bacteria. And people on wells generally have no chlorine. In such cases, there is nothing to slow standing water bacterial growth.)
So there is a health danger, perhaps? Not sure how likely.
(Some municipalities use a lot of UV, and less chlorine and other chemicals to kill bacteria. And people on wells generally have no chlorine. In such cases, there is nothing to slow standing water bacterial growth.)
That is a great risk that I, a conscious, responsible human being with agency, should be in charge of managing. Not my fridge
No. In the same way you shouldn't be in charge of managing whether your electrical devices can electrocute you.
When it comes to actual safety issues, it's better that things not work when unsafe.
Not too long ago there was a story on HN about hospital patients getting sick from bacterial growth in ice machines.
And water filters are breeding grounds for bacteria. That's actually the main reason for replacing your Brita filter every 3 months, not its filtering efficacy.
When it comes to actual safety issues, it's better that things not work when unsafe.
Not too long ago there was a story on HN about hospital patients getting sick from bacterial growth in ice machines.
And water filters are breeding grounds for bacteria. That's actually the main reason for replacing your Brita filter every 3 months, not its filtering efficacy.
> No. In the same way you shouldn't be in charge of managing whether your electrical devices can electrocute you.
You think electrical devices should have DRM that detects if you opened them, and bricks the device until you bring it to an "authorized" repair shop? Because if that's not what you had in mind, then we are in charge of managing electrocution. Banning sale of dangerously defective devices (what you were probably alluding to) is completely different to devices disobeying their owner.
You think electrical devices should have DRM that detects if you opened them, and bricks the device until you bring it to an "authorized" repair shop? Because if that's not what you had in mind, then we are in charge of managing electrocution. Banning sale of dangerously defective devices (what you were probably alluding to) is completely different to devices disobeying their owner.
I agree. But we have members of our society which will sue, even if they are told upon purchase to be careful.
So I suspect they are concerned about liability.
So I suspect they are concerned about liability.
Same.
Just like the cliché about (safety) regulations are written in blood, I assume all these "commonsense" measures are because someone pulled a stupid, got people hurt, and then won a lawsuit.
Then, per the settlement/judgement, mfg has to add another baby bumper.
"WARNING: This plastic bag is not a toy. Do not sufficate yourself!"
Okay, now I won't. Thanks for the head's up.
Just like the cliché about (safety) regulations are written in blood, I assume all these "commonsense" measures are because someone pulled a stupid, got people hurt, and then won a lawsuit.
Then, per the settlement/judgement, mfg has to add another baby bumper.
"WARNING: This plastic bag is not a toy. Do not sufficate yourself!"
Okay, now I won't. Thanks for the head's up.
You're at a friends house. They offer you a glass of water. Do you drink it? Do you inspect the filter for biological debris first, and then accept it? If you don't, and you get sick, who compensates you for lost wages? Who compensates your insurance company for the doctor's visit? I think this is, realistically, a complex situation.
Having said that, I'm not sure why a filter is needed. Is your tap water not already filtered enough?
Having said that, I'm not sure why a filter is needed. Is your tap water not already filtered enough?
That's a great excuse, but the motivation is for GE to be able to sell high margin filters due to DRM lock-in. Their filters with RFID tags cost 2x to 3x what compatible filters cost on the open markget.
I'm glad our GE fridge will continue to dispense water... because the fucking thing doesn't read the replacement filter cartridges' RFID tags, it seems. (they're genuine, not ordered from amazon, etc.) We just live with the "99 days overdue" message and change it every 6 months anyways.
I had the opposite problem. My RFID reading board went bad, and it would claim every filter was past due and would not dispense water or ice.
I wouldn't be surprised if our RFID reader is bad, too. But it was also a brand-new fridge... Wife never followed up on getting warranty service for it, so we'll live with it! (would love to do a tear-down/self-repair, but fridge is kind of inconvenient for that :) )
What happens if you don't need a filter???
It's not really hostile in this particular case. It beeps a few times when the status changes and then just displays led in amber instead of green.
It is kinda sad how much effort went into this "functionality", how much it increases the cost of the device, but selling replacement heads is their primary business. Maybe the brushes would be more expensive without the NFC reader and timers.
It is kinda sad how much effort went into this "functionality", how much it increases the cost of the device, but selling replacement heads is their primary business. Maybe the brushes would be more expensive without the NFC reader and timers.
Yes this. It's not like the entire tooth brush stops working. Also, if you've used the brush for so long, it may very well be time to replace the head for the sake of oral hygiene. The most consumer unfriendly thing about these toothbrushes is just how expensive the heads are.
Just changing the colour of an LED seems okay to me. I'm thinking more of the HP school of business where the toothbrush would stop working until the correct proprietary brush was replaced.
Yea I have this toothbrush too, I also noticed the weird IC on the bottom of the brush head when I first bought it, I nearly correctly surmised what it did, was a little upset at the prospect of being forced to buy a new head when Phillips decided it was time, but it turns out it doesn’t really do anything, it buzzes a few times at the end of brushing when it thinks it’s time. And the LED changes color… who cares…
The recommendation generally is to replace your tooth brush semi-annually, which this basically reminds you to do.
The recommendation generally is to replace your tooth brush semi-annually, which this basically reminds you to do.
I have never seen the reminder because I guess I change the heads before they detect it is time. I always notice a big difference in function when I do.
A lot of recommendations are every 3 to 4 months.
I mean at 360 minutes, it’s every 90 days if you do two 2 minute sessions every day.
> It beeps a few times when the status changes
Every time I turn it off, the Philips Sonicare plays a loud series of beeps, near my head, at times of day when I'm just waking up or about to sleep, for a toothbrush head that is well within its lifespan.
The only supported way to stop the beeping is to throw out the current toothbrush head, and pay Philips more money for a replacement that isn't needed yet.
Every time I turn it off, the Philips Sonicare plays a loud series of beeps, near my head, at times of day when I'm just waking up or about to sleep, for a toothbrush head that is well within its lifespan.
The only supported way to stop the beeping is to throw out the current toothbrush head, and pay Philips more money for a replacement that isn't needed yet.
I'm not sure what you mean by "every time I turn it off", or "loud series of beeps"... Are you sure you have an actual Sonicare? Because that doesn't need to be turned off after brushing (the cycle ends itself), nor is it capable of producing beeps that could be described as anywhere near "loud".
In any case, the user manual that helpfully ships with every genuine Sonicare, and is also easily accessible online, succinctly describes the steps to disable the beeping:
1. Put the handle on the plugged-in charger. 2. Press and hold the power on/off button while the handle remains on the charger. 3. Keep the power on/off button pressed until you hear a series of two short beeps (after 4-5 seconds). 4. Release the power on/off button.
But, as an actual Sonicare owner: when it beeps for replacement, the head is truly overdue for that. In fact, I synced the replacement schedule of my manual toothbrush (which sees an equivalent duty cycle in my case), and every time I look at both brushes, I have to admit: yup, those need replacement!
In any case, the user manual that helpfully ships with every genuine Sonicare, and is also easily accessible online, succinctly describes the steps to disable the beeping:
1. Put the handle on the plugged-in charger. 2. Press and hold the power on/off button while the handle remains on the charger. 3. Keep the power on/off button pressed until you hear a series of two short beeps (after 4-5 seconds). 4. Release the power on/off button.
But, as an actual Sonicare owner: when it beeps for replacement, the head is truly overdue for that. In fact, I synced the replacement schedule of my manual toothbrush (which sees an equivalent duty cycle in my case), and every time I look at both brushes, I have to admit: yup, those need replacement!
As an electrical engineer I want to just remind everybody that firmware can differ wildly between countries and even within one series depending on when it was deployed.
You discuss this as if it was one static unchanging thing, when it is likely at least 10-20 different things.
You discuss this as if it was one static unchanging thing, when it is likely at least 10-20 different things.
As a person thinking through this logically I just want to remind everybody that all that adds extra cost and effort and no company is going to do that unless they have to. Could a new firmware have been released mid-cycle? Sure. Could the firmware somewhere else in the world differ? Sure.
Is it likely that either is the case? Probably not. If anything, they would make a new firmware as part of a product launch.
Is it likely that either is the case? Probably not. If anything, they would make a new firmware as part of a product launch.
> nor is it capable of producing beeps
I mean, the whole device is basically a speaker. It can beep if it wants to.
I mean, the whole device is basically a speaker. It can beep if it wants to.
> The only supported way to stop the beeping is to throw out the current toothbrush head
Are you sure? On mine, the manual shows how to turn off the "Brush head replacement reminder": https://www.documents.philips.com/assets/20201024/46fe48eae7... (p.16-17). Might your model have a similar feature?
Are you sure? On mine, the manual shows how to turn off the "Brush head replacement reminder": https://www.documents.philips.com/assets/20201024/46fe48eae7... (p.16-17). Might your model have a similar feature?
I don't have this problem with my manual toothbrush. I've never needed to recharge it's batteries either.
I used be skeptical of electric toothbrushes, and still use manual brushes when travelling, but sonicare brushes are really good. Even my dentist once asked me which brush I use. YMMV
> Every time I turn it off, the Philips Sonicare plays a loud series of beeps
OK, that is annoying. Mine doesn't do that. I only got the annoying beeps a few times around the time the timer expired. Ever since only the different color light.
OK, that is annoying. Mine doesn't do that. I only got the annoying beeps a few times around the time the timer expired. Ever since only the different color light.
For me such an experience puts that manufacturer on my blacklist. I will never buy anything from them again, unless they managed to convince me that they changed their whole shtick.
There are many brand names on there, but hey, I am doing fine.
There are many brand names on there, but hey, I am doing fine.
Honestly, I appreciate it. Brushes really do wear out and clean less effectively over time, and as a user you don't really notice it -- frog in a boiling pot and everything.
But every time I swap brush heads after it reminds me, you can feel how much more effective the stiffer bristles are.
It's not like razor blades where it becomes really obvious from tugging that they need to be replaced. Brushes just slowly get softer and, if you're like me, you just don't notice.
But every time I swap brush heads after it reminds me, you can feel how much more effective the stiffer bristles are.
It's not like razor blades where it becomes really obvious from tugging that they need to be replaced. Brushes just slowly get softer and, if you're like me, you just don't notice.
It just reminds me of the David Mitchell / Robert Webb sketch about "for the first time in history, people are taking orders from their toothbrush".
"If we tell them to, do you really think they will brush their tongues?"
https://youtu.be/ltZrfrmb7Ws
https://youtu.be/ltZrfrmb7Ws
More expensive because they couldn't annoy you into buying as many brush heads? It's sort of the subscription vs. software license debate all over again, but in our mouths... I will admit to using my brush heads past the time when Philips 'helpfully' starts nagging me to replace them, and it was sort of satisfying to see this reset work. It also got me looking around and I see people pop the NFC rings loose from old heads to reuse them as NFC tags, which is fun, I will have to harvest a few of those (I do eventually retire mine and use them for scrubbing etc.)
[deleted]
It is Phillips Sonicare doing this. It says on the password generator site the blog links to. It's a wonder that someone managed to crack the NFC password for all models.
Apparently someone reverse engineered the firmware[0] to find it.
I don't see how they could easily change the password, except for perhaps using a custom tag that would only allow incrementing the values with the existing password (which would negate the point of changing the password). Otherwise it would lock existing brushes out of saving the time too. This, combined with how 99% of the users won't be tevh-savvy enough to know how to write to the tag, means there's probably not gonna be any change until they come up with a new incompatible type of brushes.
[0]: https://kuenzi.dev/toothbrush/#update-august-16-2023
I don't see how they could easily change the password, except for perhaps using a custom tag that would only allow incrementing the values with the existing password (which would negate the point of changing the password). Otherwise it would lock existing brushes out of saving the time too. This, combined with how 99% of the users won't be tevh-savvy enough to know how to write to the tag, means there's probably not gonna be any change until they come up with a new incompatible type of brushes.
[0]: https://kuenzi.dev/toothbrush/#update-august-16-2023
Where do you get the impression there was firmware reversal involved? All I see is sniffing of the RF and the observation it’s all plaintext.
After spending way too much time looking for the "perfect" toothbrush, I eventually ended up with a twig from a tree [1]. I do not look back after dealing with non-replaceable batteries, expensive heads and generating way too much electronic waste than necessary [2]. My teeth have been perfectly clean and healthy after years of use. I do not need toothpaste and am much more inclined to clean my teeth in between meals because I do not need to stay in the bathroom for it anymore.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miswak
[2] If everyone would switch to twigs, we could save thousands of tons of waste every single year. "The global electric toothbrush market size was USD 3.16 billion in 2022 and is projected to grow from USD 3.27 billion in 2023 to USD 4.37 billion in 2030"
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miswak
[2] If everyone would switch to twigs, we could save thousands of tons of waste every single year. "The global electric toothbrush market size was USD 3.16 billion in 2022 and is projected to grow from USD 3.27 billion in 2023 to USD 4.37 billion in 2030"
This[1] is exactly what I'm worried about with a miswak. No way you're hitting all of your tooth surfaces.
[1] "Its bristles lie in the long axis of the stick, whereas those of a toothbrush are placed perpendicular to the handle. Thus, it is difficult to reach the lingual surfaces of the dentition with a miswak. Another disadvantage is related to the habitual use of miswak for a prolonged period... reported that chewing-stick users may excessively scrub the anterior teeth, which are located in the area of primary concern, while ignoring the posterior teeth. " https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3723367/#:~:tex....
[1] "Its bristles lie in the long axis of the stick, whereas those of a toothbrush are placed perpendicular to the handle. Thus, it is difficult to reach the lingual surfaces of the dentition with a miswak. Another disadvantage is related to the habitual use of miswak for a prolonged period... reported that chewing-stick users may excessively scrub the anterior teeth, which are located in the area of primary concern, while ignoring the posterior teeth. " https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3723367/#:~:tex....
The fresh stick is quite flexible, so you can reach all surfaces after a small learning curve, but I actually combine it with this handle: https://www.swak.de/was-ist-die-swak/swak-miswak-zahnbuerste...
I would strongly recommend to make an appointment with a respected dental hygienist instead as you obviously have many misconceptions about dental hygiene/ brushing teeth. (Source, my fiance is a well established dental hygienist with her own office in Prague, Czechia. I have consulted the following text with her, it is adapted from a previous comment of mine some weeks ago.)
Perhaps it is good to have some basic knowledge how a cavity/ caries comes to be. From that you can derive whether you are on the right or wrong path to a reasonable dental hygiene. I would like to add that you can assume nobody is immune or has a resistance to caries.
When we eat or drink the bacteria gets nutrients (any form of sugar) and builds up plaque and the bacteria create an acid. Because the plaque stays on our teeth above and even slightly bellow the gums (gingiva) and the bacteria likes to live there the effects are strongest where the plaque is. The bacteria and the resulting acid over time cause demineralisation, dissolves the calcium in the teeth. After some time this leads to decay which we describe as cavity/ caries. Also, the plaque can solidify into a build-up of tartar/ calculus which further provides a nice habitat for bacteria, causing gingivitis (inflamation of the gums - they become red and swollen) spreads the sulcus, basically splitting gums from the teeth over time which results in periodontitis, which is basically loss of the bone and other problems below the gums. Periodontitis can also exacerbate other illnesses such as diabetes, cardiovascular illnesses, possibly some allergies (active research). This can really only be fixed by a professional dentist or dental hygienist since removing the tartar, especially under the gums, is a precise and demanding. The procedure can be painful without local anesthetics.
If you don't want all that do brush your teeth correctly each day. The 2 minutes number is myth again - do brush until the teeth are free from plaque. It is easier with a sonic/electric toothbrush, e.g. by Phillips or Oral B iO should be ok too. The brushing technique is very important, most people do this wrong. The brush should be at 45° to the sulcus (half of the bristles is on the gums the other on the tooth). Obviously also brush the top of the teeth. Each tooth basically has 5 surfaces, top and 4 sides. Don't forget to use correctly sized interdental brushes. Your dentist or dental hygienist should be able to help you find the correct sizes for specific spaces between teeth. (You will probably end up with TePe or Curaprox and probably more than one size.) You can use a solo brush too, which brushes exactly one tooth at a time. The bristles of the brush should be as soft as possible and removal of bigger amounts of plaque are done by spending more time instead of force/ pressure/ hardness/ abrasiveness. In addition to not replacement of interdental brushes, you can also use a super floss (the middle is made of a fluffy material) but learn a good technique so you don't hurt your gums, throw the thin waxed floss in the trash especially if you are not super handy/ careful as to not cut your gums. Also, the floss does not clean premolars and molars properly because of the shape of the teeth in interdental space (because of their concavity, imagine that the surface is basically made of two pillars).
Do have a regular appointment with your dentist and dental hygienist. 2x a year should be enough with good hygiene. If you have more problems, the frequency of appointments will of course vary. They should definitely do at least intraoral x-rays each preventive appointment and a OrthoPantomoGraph in ~2 years.
Perhaps it is good to have some basic knowledge how a cavity/ caries comes to be. From that you can derive whether you are on the right or wrong path to a reasonable dental hygiene. I would like to add that you can assume nobody is immune or has a resistance to caries.
When we eat or drink the bacteria gets nutrients (any form of sugar) and builds up plaque and the bacteria create an acid. Because the plaque stays on our teeth above and even slightly bellow the gums (gingiva) and the bacteria likes to live there the effects are strongest where the plaque is. The bacteria and the resulting acid over time cause demineralisation, dissolves the calcium in the teeth. After some time this leads to decay which we describe as cavity/ caries. Also, the plaque can solidify into a build-up of tartar/ calculus which further provides a nice habitat for bacteria, causing gingivitis (inflamation of the gums - they become red and swollen) spreads the sulcus, basically splitting gums from the teeth over time which results in periodontitis, which is basically loss of the bone and other problems below the gums. Periodontitis can also exacerbate other illnesses such as diabetes, cardiovascular illnesses, possibly some allergies (active research). This can really only be fixed by a professional dentist or dental hygienist since removing the tartar, especially under the gums, is a precise and demanding. The procedure can be painful without local anesthetics.
If you don't want all that do brush your teeth correctly each day. The 2 minutes number is myth again - do brush until the teeth are free from plaque. It is easier with a sonic/electric toothbrush, e.g. by Phillips or Oral B iO should be ok too. The brushing technique is very important, most people do this wrong. The brush should be at 45° to the sulcus (half of the bristles is on the gums the other on the tooth). Obviously also brush the top of the teeth. Each tooth basically has 5 surfaces, top and 4 sides. Don't forget to use correctly sized interdental brushes. Your dentist or dental hygienist should be able to help you find the correct sizes for specific spaces between teeth. (You will probably end up with TePe or Curaprox and probably more than one size.) You can use a solo brush too, which brushes exactly one tooth at a time. The bristles of the brush should be as soft as possible and removal of bigger amounts of plaque are done by spending more time instead of force/ pressure/ hardness/ abrasiveness. In addition to not replacement of interdental brushes, you can also use a super floss (the middle is made of a fluffy material) but learn a good technique so you don't hurt your gums, throw the thin waxed floss in the trash especially if you are not super handy/ careful as to not cut your gums. Also, the floss does not clean premolars and molars properly because of the shape of the teeth in interdental space (because of their concavity, imagine that the surface is basically made of two pillars).
Do have a regular appointment with your dentist and dental hygienist. 2x a year should be enough with good hygiene. If you have more problems, the frequency of appointments will of course vary. They should definitely do at least intraoral x-rays each preventive appointment and a OrthoPantomoGraph in ~2 years.
Thanks for the educational text.
> you obviously have many misconceptions about dental hygiene/ brushing teeth
What misconceptions do you see? I go to the dental hygienist twice a year already and my oral health has never been better since using the Miswak in lieu of an electric toothbrush.
> you obviously have many misconceptions about dental hygiene/ brushing teeth
What misconceptions do you see? I go to the dental hygienist twice a year already and my oral health has never been better since using the Miswak in lieu of an electric toothbrush.
How do you brush your interdental spaces with the miswak? If you don't physically brush or floss them, how can they be clean? Do your dentists x-ray your teeth?
It could help a bit if you eat sugar-free diet but unless you mechanically remove the plaque buildup you will sooner or later develop gum inflammation/ gingivitis and carries.
Of course, you could explicitly ask if your dental hygiene is spotless. In any profession where you need to be nice to customers people tend to say fewer bad things or put them euphemistically. Clarity can get lost.
Of course, you could explicitly ask if your dental hygiene is spotless. In any profession where you need to be nice to customers people tend to say fewer bad things or put them euphemistically. Clarity can get lost.
For my interdental spaces, an interdental brush does not work, my dental hygienist also tried and agrees. I used floss before, but a few years ago I switched to an italian-made oral irrigator that does not require batteries and is connected to the faucet: https://www.sowash.it/
I was skeptical about it at first, but it does the job just fine because the jet is more powerful than any of the electric oral irrigators.
While I'm not doing it anymore, a ketogenic diet also had a huge effect on the buildup of plaque.
I was skeptical about it at first, but it does the job just fine because the jet is more powerful than any of the electric oral irrigators.
While I'm not doing it anymore, a ketogenic diet also had a huge effect on the buildup of plaque.
“You might have noticed the color of the brush head changing throughout of this post. This is because I had to run out and buy a new one after getting locked out of the first one.”
The concept of getting locked out of one’s toothbrush head is so absurd it might as well be dystopian.
The concept of getting locked out of one’s toothbrush head is so absurd it might as well be dystopian.
What's there to be locked out of? I've this brown diode blinking for half an year. Are they disabling the vibrator?
> [We] can see that the tag is configured to permanently disable all write access after three wrong password attempts. (Which I promptly exceeded when playing around) This means that not even the toothbrush handle itself can write to this head again.
It didn't mention that the toothbrush failed to keep vibrating, just that the toothbrush head lost its function as a writable NFC tag.
What happens in that case? Does the toothbrush misbehave/consider the brush beyond its lifespan, or is it a convenient way to disable this feature?
Just disable the feature the way the manufacture instructs instead of this random hacking? Why pull out all the engineering tools when the step by step is in the manual?
I think that's a symptom of buying off-the-shelf NFC hardware. They all lock you out after some small number of incorrect attempts to guess the password, because some security researcher noticed how easy it was to try every password and people stopped buying their stuff if they didn't have this feature.
This equipment is not necessary for a toothbrush "minutes used" counter, but unfortunately, there is no off-the-shelf alternative.
This equipment is not necessary for a toothbrush "minutes used" counter, but unfortunately, there is no off-the-shelf alternative.
Elaborate discussion 6 months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36128617
Previous article had to sniff the NFC password when the handle connected to the head. New article has a convenient form to generate password.
How did they reverse the brush head password algorithm?
https://youtu.be/EPytrn8i8sc "Hacking the Phillips Sonicare NFC Password" (buried three links deep)
How did they reverse the brush head password algorithm?
https://youtu.be/EPytrn8i8sc "Hacking the Phillips Sonicare NFC Password" (buried three links deep)
Is using a screen capture software expensive or difficult to do? In 2023, why would someone not use one instead of hand holding a phone to record so that every time they look away, the phone bounces and makes whatever they are showing on the screen impossible to read?
It’s a bit frustrating for how much time is spent showing a screen.
However, making the same video with screen capture would require a good amount of editing to also show the toothbrush. Here everything seems to be in one take. I don’t blame him; as easy as it is now, editing is still time consuming.
However, making the same video with screen capture would require a good amount of editing to also show the toothbrush. Here everything seems to be in one take. I don’t blame him; as easy as it is now, editing is still time consuming.
Most people I personally know would reach for a phone to record a video.
They are simply more familiar with it, and while some may be aware screen capture exists, it usually requires some setup, and knowledge of a macro.
They are simply more familiar with it, and while some may be aware screen capture exists, it usually requires some setup, and knowledge of a macro.
Me, dumb: I change my Sonicare toothbrush head whenever it tells me to. I haven’t had a cavity in 8 years.
You, a clever toothbrush-hacking genius: haha, the head is new again!
You, a clever toothbrush-hacking genius: haha, the head is new again!
Cavities can be the result of many things, including genetics
Old toothbrushes are bad for gum. This is not only a cavities problem.
The orange light on the toothbrush comes on after three months to remind you to change it - it's only slightly annoying but this worked perfectly to reset it.
It’s better for your mouth/teeth to change the brush, it’s not really visible but there’s a difference in how effective an old brush is at plaque removal compared to a new one.
Related, has anyone gotten a solution to the Oral-B/Braun toothbrush bug where it refuses to start after being fully charged? You pop it back in the charger and immediately it'll have full charge and start again!
I've been caught out on this more than once and I'm not the only one. I make sure it's fully charged and pop it in my travel bag. Then when I'm 2000 miles from my charger I find out it refuses to start!
I've been caught out on this more than once and I'm not the only one. I make sure it's fully charged and pop it in my travel bag. Then when I'm 2000 miles from my charger I find out it refuses to start!
Hmm… was not working me. Solved it.
I get TAG CONNECTION LOST whenever I try and write with an iPhone 15 Pro.
Philips sonic card brush, recent mfg.
If you are having trouble with the last step of OTHER > ADV COMMAND, separate the two steps.
Instead of pasting: 1B:C3:05:5C:30,A2:24:00:00:02:00
Try to separate them into separate steps.
1B:C3:05:5C:30 then A2:24:00:00:02:00
After that one worked, and one didn’t. The second one needed the command again, this time it worked as one.
I get TAG CONNECTION LOST whenever I try and write with an iPhone 15 Pro.
Philips sonic card brush, recent mfg.
If you are having trouble with the last step of OTHER > ADV COMMAND, separate the two steps.
Instead of pasting: 1B:C3:05:5C:30,A2:24:00:00:02:00
Try to separate them into separate steps.
1B:C3:05:5C:30 then A2:24:00:00:02:00
After that one worked, and one didn’t. The second one needed the command again, this time it worked as one.
Sonicare is the best toothbrush yet normal shops only seem to stock oralb heads. You can get non-smart sonicare heads too.
I do think shops should stock both, but personally I can't stand Sonicare. I tried using my wife's toothbrush (I was a manual brushing guy at the time and wanted to check it out), and it actually hurt to use because the vibration was so intense. I figured that electric toothbrushes weren't for me and just went back to manual brushing, until my wife got me a cheap Oral-B to see if I liked that more. It's been really nice actually, and I've been planning to get a nicer Oral-B model. But yeah, I would far rather manually brush my teeth than use a Sonicare with how uncomfortable they are.
Sonicare has 4 or 5 different brushing modes. Newer models even alert you if you’re pressing too hard. If all of the modes hurt you must have really sensitive teeth!
I'm more interested in getting the mouse cursor on my machine
It doesn’t work for me :(
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