Witch – macOS window switcher replacement(manytricks.com)
manytricks.com
Witch – macOS window switcher replacement
https://manytricks.com/witch/
201 comments
> but poor benighted souls like me just wonder why their $2500 computer isn't doing what they're telling it to.
This is the essence of 99% of my frustration with computers (smartphones especially) anymore. I find myself literally shouting I DIDN'T ASK YOU TO DO THAT at my devices. I grew up hearing the platitude that computers only do what we tell them to do. I wish that was true!
This is the essence of 99% of my frustration with computers (smartphones especially) anymore. I find myself literally shouting I DIDN'T ASK YOU TO DO THAT at my devices. I grew up hearing the platitude that computers only do what we tell them to do. I wish that was true!
> I grew up hearing the platitude that computers only do what we tell them to do.
That platitude is from the command line age. With GUIs we will never have that as long as there are no realtime deadlines.
The most frustrating thing is when you tap something milliseconds after the GUI element changes underneath your fingers, triggering the wrong action.
That platitude is from the command line age. With GUIs we will never have that as long as there are no realtime deadlines.
The most frustrating thing is when you tap something milliseconds after the GUI element changes underneath your fingers, triggering the wrong action.
Let me guess, ex-Windows user?
The OSs are visually similar these days but there are fundamental conceptual differences, still. Window management on macOS, in particular, is a merger from two very different paradigms: classic Mac OS and NeXT. I was a huge fan of the former, though I don’t know if it would have scaled to the terabytes of today.
In any case, my advice is trying to understand whatever underling reason some behavior might have instead of trying to shoehorn a previous habit. I know a lot of my frustration with Windows was that it was not the Mac I’ve been using all of my life.
The OSs are visually similar these days but there are fundamental conceptual differences, still. Window management on macOS, in particular, is a merger from two very different paradigms: classic Mac OS and NeXT. I was a huge fan of the former, though I don’t know if it would have scaled to the terabytes of today.
In any case, my advice is trying to understand whatever underling reason some behavior might have instead of trying to shoehorn a previous habit. I know a lot of my frustration with Windows was that it was not the Mac I’ve been using all of my life.
Without providing the underlying reason that supposedly exists this just feels condescending.
I recently switched jobs, and with the change switched from Ubuntu to Mac for my work computer. I've started to develop severe repetitive stress in my right hand from too much magic mouse usage because there are so many things that just don't have keyboard shortcuts.
So, for the benefit of all of us ex-PC users, what is the underlying reason for this extreme dearth of keyboard shortcuts? How am I meant to be using these Mac OS tools in a way that doesn't kill my hand?
I recently switched jobs, and with the change switched from Ubuntu to Mac for my work computer. I've started to develop severe repetitive stress in my right hand from too much magic mouse usage because there are so many things that just don't have keyboard shortcuts.
So, for the benefit of all of us ex-PC users, what is the underlying reason for this extreme dearth of keyboard shortcuts? How am I meant to be using these Mac OS tools in a way that doesn't kill my hand?
Didn't mean to sound condescending, it was my actual experience with Windows. Aside from some obviously dumb things (like drive letters), some are just different and understanding them decreased my frustration.
I didn't directly address the original post issues because it's hard for me to even understand it, since it's nothing I've ever dealt with. For example:
“…an issue where you can select an app and it does absolutely nothing”
I _think_ the author is struggling with the fact that Mac apps can be open and have no windows. And that's not weird at all, just different. Or maybe it's a virtual desktop thing (Spaces), which I don't use.
Anyway, I use keyboard shortcuts extensively, command-tilde will switch between windows on the same app, for instance, if that's what you're looking for.
But keyboard shortcuts are much more discoverable in Windows than on the Mac. The letters are underlined in dialog boxes. It's uglier, but way more obvious. You can use the Mac with a keyboard only, but you may have to Google some shortcuts, unfortunately.
I didn't directly address the original post issues because it's hard for me to even understand it, since it's nothing I've ever dealt with. For example:
“…an issue where you can select an app and it does absolutely nothing”
I _think_ the author is struggling with the fact that Mac apps can be open and have no windows. And that's not weird at all, just different. Or maybe it's a virtual desktop thing (Spaces), which I don't use.
Anyway, I use keyboard shortcuts extensively, command-tilde will switch between windows on the same app, for instance, if that's what you're looking for.
But keyboard shortcuts are much more discoverable in Windows than on the Mac. The letters are underlined in dialog boxes. It's uglier, but way more obvious. You can use the Mac with a keyboard only, but you may have to Google some shortcuts, unfortunately.
yeah... I have the same problem. I click on the icon in dock and nothing happens. For example, Microsoft Teams.. I need this to open it and contact someone asap, but nothing happens. I need to search for the teams window on all the desktops. Or right click it and select the window, usually this works. But still frustrating. I have been using Mac for 6 months (before Windows and Linux) and Mac OS is sometimes frustrating when trying to do the most simple stuff like bringing a closed app back to front.
That is a bug with Teams. It apparently doesn't know how to show its own window. Sometimes if you keep clicking the icon you can get the window to show.
It's because the app is hidden, its really arcane but if you:
cmd+tab ->
hover over a hidden app ->
now also hold option ->
let go of cmd+tab ->
your app will appear
Not always… sometimes the app is just Spotify. Haven’t tried the option trick with it, but there the window is simply closed. Clicking the icon in the dock opens a new window, but tabbing to it does not. And yeah, I never remember the shortcut to open it once I switch to it, because cmd+0 and cmd+1 don’t bring up a new window for Spotify. So I always reach for the mouse and click the icon in the dock.
Normally my favourite method to switch apps is Spotlight, accessible with ctrl+space or cmd+space, I forget which. Anyway, Spotlight is a great app switcher, you can disable most everything else and just type a letter or two to switch. I use Powertoys on Windows to get a similar switcher there.
But again, Spotify breaks this, and switching using Spotlight does not recreate the Spotify window, if I remember correctly. Once again reaching for the dock…
Normally my favourite method to switch apps is Spotlight, accessible with ctrl+space or cmd+space, I forget which. Anyway, Spotlight is a great app switcher, you can disable most everything else and just type a letter or two to switch. I use Powertoys on Windows to get a similar switcher there.
But again, Spotify breaks this, and switching using Spotlight does not recreate the Spotify window, if I remember correctly. Once again reaching for the dock…
> However, it does not support keyboard shortcuts for navigating and selecting an application!
This is the thing that is most frustrating to me about MacOS—keyboard support is clearly a second class citizen.
It seems like you're supposed to use the trackpad for everything, but when I'm docked I want to use an external keyboard and mouse. The only mouse that supports the trackpad controls that Mac assumes are available is the magic mouse, which my company helpfully provided, but the ergonomics on that mouse are terrible. It's this tiny little flat slab that offers nothing in the way of support.
If I could figure out how to control everything with the keyboard I'd swap that mouse out for an ergonomic one, but virtual workspace management with pure keyboard seems to be impossible even with Rectangle installed.
This is the thing that is most frustrating to me about MacOS—keyboard support is clearly a second class citizen.
It seems like you're supposed to use the trackpad for everything, but when I'm docked I want to use an external keyboard and mouse. The only mouse that supports the trackpad controls that Mac assumes are available is the magic mouse, which my company helpfully provided, but the ergonomics on that mouse are terrible. It's this tiny little flat slab that offers nothing in the way of support.
If I could figure out how to control everything with the keyboard I'd swap that mouse out for an ergonomic one, but virtual workspace management with pure keyboard seems to be impossible even with Rectangle installed.
> This is the thing that is most frustrating to me about MacOS—keyboard support is clearly a second class citizen.
This has been true from the beginning of Mac OS X/OS X/macOS. Though the OS allows you to easily define keyboard shortcuts for any menu item in any application easily, there’s no way to use the system well if you don’t have a mouse (or even better, a trackpad).
And it gets even worse with Catalyst [1] apps, including Apple’s own apps like Reminders and others. It’s an exercise in futility to try to navigate those using the keyboard alone.
[1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Catalyst
This has been true from the beginning of Mac OS X/OS X/macOS. Though the OS allows you to easily define keyboard shortcuts for any menu item in any application easily, there’s no way to use the system well if you don’t have a mouse (or even better, a trackpad).
And it gets even worse with Catalyst [1] apps, including Apple’s own apps like Reminders and others. It’s an exercise in futility to try to navigate those using the keyboard alone.
[1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Catalyst
Turn on "Keyboard navigation": https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/use-your-keyboard-l...
It helps a little, such as being able to tab through dialog prompt buttons. Windows is still 10x better at being controlled by a keyboard but at least bridges the gap a tiny bit.
It helps a little, such as being able to tab through dialog prompt buttons. Windows is still 10x better at being controlled by a keyboard but at least bridges the gap a tiny bit.
Even that does not always work. Some dialogs stubbornly refuse to respond to the tab key. In fairness, though, I think those are mostly dialogs with “dangerous” options in them: It slows down the automatic response somewhat.
In addition to that, I use raycast to find any menu item. No mouse needed.
Command-shift-? Brings up Search in the Help menu, then type and select the menu item, also, but TIL about raycast:
https://www.raycast.com
https://www.raycast.com
I know, but it’s not as fast. :)
Whenever I see tools like this for Mac I can't help but wonder if I am seriously missing something.
Unlike when I use Windows, I just don't use command (alt) tab on Mac. I rely almost entirely on gestures on my trackpad (three fingers swipe up to see all my windows that are not minimized).
With the added benefit of that allowing me to drag those windows to other screens/desktops right from that UI.
Is there some power user advantage I am missing out on here or is this sort of making Mac work more like Windows? On Windows I use alt tab all the time just because... I find its windows management sucks compared to Mac.
Unlike when I use Windows, I just don't use command (alt) tab on Mac. I rely almost entirely on gestures on my trackpad (three fingers swipe up to see all my windows that are not minimized).
With the added benefit of that allowing me to drag those windows to other screens/desktops right from that UI.
Is there some power user advantage I am missing out on here or is this sort of making Mac work more like Windows? On Windows I use alt tab all the time just because... I find its windows management sucks compared to Mac.
No, the joke is on us MacOS users who insist on its terrible Alt-Tab behavior instead of leaning into the gesture support.
But I do believe the gesture support has fundamental limitations:
1) you have to take your keys off the home row to render gestures. Not good!
2) gesture window switching / Exposé breaks down when you have too many windows open: the thumbnails become unrecognizably small.
3) to solve the above problem, perhaps you suggest using spaces. Well, MacOS's spaces support is also frustrating. It's impossible to turn off the animation and time lag switching between spaces! Sure, it's only a half-second, but a half-second repeated hundreds of times adds up. And spaces's interaction with alt-tab is totally broken: if you're using a given app (say Chrome), switch to another space where Chrome is also open, and then try to alt-tab back, it doesn't take you back to the last window you had open. Sad!
But I do believe the gesture support has fundamental limitations:
1) you have to take your keys off the home row to render gestures. Not good!
2) gesture window switching / Exposé breaks down when you have too many windows open: the thumbnails become unrecognizably small.
3) to solve the above problem, perhaps you suggest using spaces. Well, MacOS's spaces support is also frustrating. It's impossible to turn off the animation and time lag switching between spaces! Sure, it's only a half-second, but a half-second repeated hundreds of times adds up. And spaces's interaction with alt-tab is totally broken: if you're using a given app (say Chrome), switch to another space where Chrome is also open, and then try to alt-tab back, it doesn't take you back to the last window you had open. Sad!
I love the mac alt-tab behavior, you just move your finger up one key to switch between windows in the current app grouping them nicely unlike Windows where they're all a big mishmash.
My issue with this behaviour is that I often don't want my windows to be grouped by app. I want to be able to group windows by project, and I may want to have multiple projects in the same set of apps. Workspaces (virtual desktops) ought to be perfect for this, but there is no way to get alt-tab like switching between windows in a desktop on macOS.
We’ll that’s the thing. Windows is based around windows and macOS is based around applications. I get that you want to use macOS like you use windows but that is the historical usage of these UI.
Except when windows behave like apps and you close a window and it closes the app. Or it’s a single window app but closing the window does not close the app. Or when you full screen a window and now everything is inconsistent. Or when you use Mission Control and now the switching paradigm is based on Windows and not Apps.
Even Apple’s own applications break the “it’s an app and not a window” paradigm in many instances. Without trying, there’s no way to tell if clicking on the close button will quit the app or just close that window even for apps that only use a single window.
That made sense in days gone by when things like photoshop's tool palettes were in separate windows. It makes no sense in 2023 when windows are self contained units. Apple have changed all sorts of other things about their desktop environment. IMO they ought to change this too.
Soo use stage manager, it’ll do cross app switching without delay using cmd-~
Simply drag a number of related windows together
Simply drag a number of related windows together
Stage manager should be nice, but it takes up a huge chunk of screen real estate for no reason.
EDIT: actually it seems possible to make it "autohide". But it won't let me have more than one window visible at once!
EDIT: actually it seems possible to make it "autohide". But it won't let me have more than one window visible at once!
Just drag a window from the sidebar (stage manager) on the desktop. It will take the front most window of that app.
It’s kind of buggy at times though.
I have a stage with a few terminals, vscode, and a development browser
It’s kind of buggy at times though.
I have a stage with a few terminals, vscode, and a development browser
Hah, my perspective is the exact opposite!
On Windows, there is a nicely and predictably maintained Z-order, whereas MacOS insists that if I want to switch focus, surely I want all the windows that the other app has to offer, which feels like a big "mishmash" to me.
On Windows, there is a nicely and predictably maintained Z-order, whereas MacOS insists that if I want to switch focus, surely I want all the windows that the other app has to offer, which feels like a big "mishmash" to me.
> MacOS insists that if I want to switch focus, surely I want all the windows that the other app has to offer, which feels like a but mishmash to me.
This had not been the case. Command tabbing would bring forward only the last active window. It was very handy to switch back and forth between text editor and browser that way. But then, they decided command tab should bring forward all windows, which ruined usability for me. Now I use BetterTouchTool [0] to directly switch to an app. Doing so brings forward only the last active window.
[0] https://folivora.ai
This had not been the case. Command tabbing would bring forward only the last active window. It was very handy to switch back and forth between text editor and browser that way. But then, they decided command tab should bring forward all windows, which ruined usability for me. Now I use BetterTouchTool [0] to directly switch to an app. Doing so brings forward only the last active window.
[0] https://folivora.ai
Pleas elaborate on how exactly you do this using BTT. I have used it a little bit, but haven’t gone beyond mapping one or two things.
My pleasure. Even though BTT is conceptually very simple (input method triggers trigger actions), implementation is very detailed.
First, add a new keyboard shortcut trigger for “All Apps”. Choose a key combo that you prefer. I'm using a programmable keyboard that has a dedicated key corresponding to key combo CTRL+SHIFT+OPTION+CMD (a.k.a. super), which doesn't collide with system key combos. You are free to choose anything that suits you. For instance, to switch to Safari, I hit SUPER+S.
For corresponding action, choose “Launch Application / Open File / ...” and choose Safari from the box below. When Safari is already running, this action will switch focus to Safari's most recently focused window and will not bring other windows of it to foreground.
That's all. Set up other key combos for other applications as well. I have many set up. SUPER+T is for Terminal, SUPER+E is for Emacs. Switching between most recent windows of these apps should now be very easy and fast.
First, add a new keyboard shortcut trigger for “All Apps”. Choose a key combo that you prefer. I'm using a programmable keyboard that has a dedicated key corresponding to key combo CTRL+SHIFT+OPTION+CMD (a.k.a. super), which doesn't collide with system key combos. You are free to choose anything that suits you. For instance, to switch to Safari, I hit SUPER+S.
For corresponding action, choose “Launch Application / Open File / ...” and choose Safari from the box below. When Safari is already running, this action will switch focus to Safari's most recently focused window and will not bring other windows of it to foreground.
That's all. Set up other key combos for other applications as well. I have many set up. SUPER+T is for Terminal, SUPER+E is for Emacs. Switching between most recent windows of these apps should now be very easy and fast.
I agree as well, which is why I've used HyperSwitch for many years. It restore most of the goodness of the Windows focus switching experience with a defined keybinding.
Came here to say the same thing! Whenever I'm using my work PC the alt-tab behavior of windows drives me nuts.
The space animation lag is mind boggling. Not only is it a half second, but it locks keypress until finished.
Any Apple devs (or anyone) here who can comment about why they removed the expose-animation-duration option?
Any Apple devs (or anyone) here who can comment about why they removed the expose-animation-duration option?
If you install yabai (https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai) it has a feature that can completely disable spaces switching animations - but it does require partially disabling SIP (worth it for yabai, IMO).
If you change spaces using the keyboard shortcuts like Ctrl+1,2 etc. (they might not be set to that by default.. it's 'Switch to Desktop 1' etc in the settings), then there is still a shorter animation, and there is no input delay when switching.
I'd love some insight, too. I was just trying to disable the delay this morning. Even with the "Reduce Motion" option checked, the delay is too long.
Re: 2), it's particularly painful if you need the "reduce motion" accessibility setting. Instead of shrinking down from their current positions where you might glimpse a window mid-animation and see where it's going, you get a fade effect from full size windows straight to unreadably small windows.
For 3, enable Reduce Motion under System Settings > Accessibility > Display.
This makes switching spaces and windows nearly instant with no animation. I don't notice whatever else lost animations...so I don't miss them. Worth a try!
This makes switching spaces and windows nearly instant with no animation. I don't notice whatever else lost animations...so I don't miss them. Worth a try!
That turns off the animation but leaves the time delay in place. E.g. if you have a text field selected in the target window, any typing you do won't register until the fade in—fade out animation completes (exact same behavior as with the option disabled, but with the fade animation instead of the slide animation).
This.
Apple hard-codes “while lies” to make the experience smoother for those with slower devices, but they end up getting in the way if you want the UI to run fast.
It’s like having triple-buffering and vsync enabled all the time. Less chance of it looking broken, but not worth the tradeoff for those that feed on responsiveness.
Apple hard-codes “while lies” to make the experience smoother for those with slower devices, but they end up getting in the way if you want the UI to run fast.
It’s like having triple-buffering and vsync enabled all the time. Less chance of it looking broken, but not worth the tradeoff for those that feed on responsiveness.
The delay is caused by the fact that there’s different behavior between cmd-tab short and longer press.
Sorry will not open the horizontal list of apps.
It’s similar to the delay you have with double tap detection
Sorry will not open the horizontal list of apps.
It’s similar to the delay you have with double tap detection
The solution (although somewhat rough around the edges, but much, much better than other options) is to use a tiling window manager like Yabai. It will completely change the way you work with windows and spaces in macOS. This definitely solves your (1), especially with the help of `skhd` to map your keyboard shortcuts. Another option is Amethyst but it's a bit less configurable (although it supports stack layout for windows).
(3) can also be solved. Go to system preferences -> accessibility, check the "Reduce motion" checkbox. Now the spaces can be switched almost instantly without the annoying animation by using keyboard shortcuts.
(3) can also be solved. Go to system preferences -> accessibility, check the "Reduce motion" checkbox. Now the spaces can be switched almost instantly without the annoying animation by using keyboard shortcuts.
As far as those limitations go.
1) That would also be true if you are switching to nearly any GUI based app that you need the mouse except for maybe if you are switching to a text editor but I doubt every time you switch apps you are immediately typing something, so not really sure I see the problem there.
2) True, maybe I just don't tend to have a ton of windows open at the same time.
3) I can't really speak on how it behaves with alt-tab however with the track pad it is as fast as you swipe and tied to that swipe. I can slow it down or speed it up.
1) That would also be true if you are switching to nearly any GUI based app that you need the mouse except for maybe if you are switching to a text editor but I doubt every time you switch apps you are immediately typing something, so not really sure I see the problem there.
2) True, maybe I just don't tend to have a ton of windows open at the same time.
3) I can't really speak on how it behaves with alt-tab however with the track pad it is as fast as you swipe and tied to that swipe. I can slow it down or speed it up.
Alt+Tab lets you switch to a previous window instantly. MacOS’s UI sluggishness is jarring when you’re a power user from another platform.
Unsure if you mean AltTab - https://alt-tab-macos.netlify.app/ -- it's my favorite
I wish we could remove the animation between spaces on macos. there’s always a delay before you get to use the space you switched to.
When is the last time you used macOS? Command+Tab also switches to the previous window instantly. It only brings up the switcher when you hold it longer.
It switches to the previous _app_, not window. It will bring all of that app's windows to the front. A core feature a lot of folks want is fast, window-oriented focus switching.
Cmd-`, and Cmd-Shift-`, switches between the current app's windows. Using a combination of Cmd-Tab and Cmd-`, I've never had a problem.
I think people just like what they're used to, ultimately.
I think people just like what they're used to, ultimately.
I've been using MacOS for over 10 years by now and I still consider it vastly inferior in this regard. I recently started using alt-tab which does a pretty good job at mimicking Windows but it's slightly buggy and introduces a tiny but noticeable delay which is a constant source of frustration to me.
Imagine you have three tasks, where each one uses one window from your browser, terminal, finder, and editor. You rarely want to switch between app windows, but you often want to switch between "task windows". The windows/Linux alt-tab style is faster here.
I have caps lock bound to open the item2 visor
Cmd-` is pretty inelegant. It disturbs your workspace, bringing all the windows you cycle through to the foreground and leaving them there. You have to play spot-the-difference looking for which window just popped up, then evaluate whether it's the one you want.
Other desktop environments put the window switcher in the center of the screen (so your eyes can unthinkingly jump straight to it), you can quickly tell "hit <tab> four times to get the window I want", and your workspace wasn't disturbed with other windows you aren't interested in.
Other desktop environments put the window switcher in the center of the screen (so your eyes can unthinkingly jump straight to it), you can quickly tell "hit <tab> four times to get the window I want", and your workspace wasn't disturbed with other windows you aren't interested in.
Also CMD-~ doesn’t have a preview mode does it? It simply cycles through windows without showing all of them listed in a grid or list, unlike Windows Alt + Tab.
Cmd~ switched cross apps without any ui or delay when yoke using stage manager
It switches between all windows within one stage
It switches between all windows within one stage
[deleted]
I’m using it as my primary OS since late 2020.
> I rely almost entirely on gestures on my trackpad (three fingers swipe up to see all my windows that are not minimized).
Swiping alone is unnecessarily slow so I don't do it unless I need visual assistance. I do them all though, in this order of frequency:
- Cmd+Tab for switching apps (most frequent action)
- Option+Tab (remapped) for switching windows of active app
- Three-fingers down to see all windows of current app
- Three-fingers up to see all windows (rarely used because I have too many windows open for this to be useful)
In addition I use Ctrl+{1,4} to move between different workspaces (although I sometimes use three-finger swipe left/right for this but too often I want to skip one (like going from 1 to 3) in which case swiping is annoying.
Moving windows to a different desktop/workspace I do by clicking titlebar and pressing Ctrl+{1,4}.
Relying on the "overview" (or whatever it's called) sounds convenient, but slower than what I do.
Swiping alone is unnecessarily slow so I don't do it unless I need visual assistance. I do them all though, in this order of frequency:
- Cmd+Tab for switching apps (most frequent action)
- Option+Tab (remapped) for switching windows of active app
- Three-fingers down to see all windows of current app
- Three-fingers up to see all windows (rarely used because I have too many windows open for this to be useful)
In addition I use Ctrl+{1,4} to move between different workspaces (although I sometimes use three-finger swipe left/right for this but too often I want to skip one (like going from 1 to 3) in which case swiping is annoying.
Moving windows to a different desktop/workspace I do by clicking titlebar and pressing Ctrl+{1,4}.
Relying on the "overview" (or whatever it's called) sounds convenient, but slower than what I do.
How do you get the three-fingers down behavior?
Trackpad -> More gestures -> App Exposé
https://i.imgur.com/u9BRDU8.png (Big Sur, YMMV)
https://i.imgur.com/u9BRDU8.png (Big Sur, YMMV)
Your OS version may vary (I'm not up to date) but look for ‘App Exposé’ in the Trackpad settings.
There are Mac users like myself that don't have a trackpad or touchpad. After trying the Magic Mouse when I got my Mini I reverted back to my 20 year old Microsoft optical mouse. I long for the Windows style of app switching where you can go through each window instead of the Mac style where you go through each app.
You should try contexts! It also has a bunch of other features and is highly configurable. I'm not one to normally pay for software, but this is probably up there with some of the best $10 I ever spent.
https://contexts.co/
https://contexts.co/
Cmd+~ switches between windows of the same application
That's not what your parent comment asked for.
Some people are unable to (or prefer not to) use the touchpad or pointing devices.
such as having the mac docked and connected to an external screen with the original screen closed.
There are of course keyboard shortcuts to access expose or spaces, but then what's the difference between alt-tab and that?
There are of course keyboard shortcuts to access expose or spaces, but then what's the difference between alt-tab and that?
This is how I use my MacBook, but I still use a wireless touchpad just fine.
You can also use hot corners.
Which are often annoying if you are using multiple displays because the interior corners aren't used (or at least aren't in my configuration)
How do you use those with the keyboard?
While I agree, there's some few cases where I find Alt+Tab to be superior. A small example, you are writing a PR and want to peek at the code, you can cmd+tab, look, cmd+tab again and keep typing without moving your hands from the position. So for that "peeking" it's very useful while keeping focus. I find grander gestures like three fingers up to be a lot better when I want to "context switch" though.
Now the only/big annoyance in macOS is that "closed" windows don't close the app, so you are back from a zoom meeting trying to get into the zone and you cmd+tab from code to terminal and back expecting that to work and suddenly you are greeted tabbing into Zoom, but it is closed, but it still gets in the way.
Now the only/big annoyance in macOS is that "closed" windows don't close the app, so you are back from a zoom meeting trying to get into the zone and you cmd+tab from code to terminal and back expecting that to work and suddenly you are greeted tabbing into Zoom, but it is closed, but it still gets in the way.
I’ve never quite gotten the appeal of Winlike alt-tab myself. Its usability rapidly degrades with the number of windows open, with the downward slope beginning at ~5 windows and curving down exponentially from there. Being that I’ve always got 10+ windows open at any given time it’s almost useless for me.
I could see some utility in a keystroke that only toggles between the two last used windows, but full-on alt-tab just doesn’t work for me.
I could see some utility in a keystroke that only toggles between the two last used windows, but full-on alt-tab just doesn’t work for me.
You can for smaller visible thumbnails of much more than 5 windows in the switcher, or even use a list of icons, or just the fact that most recent windows are shown (and older 20+ is not) is already very useful
That's exactly what alt-tab is when used without holding.
Yep, but I think that little bit of functionality alone is enough to be given its own separate shortcut that doesn't summon UI or switch to some other window if accidentally held a bit too long.
Alt tab mac switcher app allows you to set the delay, so you can set it high and only use for invisible app switching (apparition delay)
it's still not prefect as it's not forced to consider only two windows (that would require a separate hack)
it's still not prefect as it's not forced to consider only two windows (that would require a separate hack)
Same for me. Trackpad is my best friend for productivity. 4-fingers up (and also bottom-left hot corner) for Mission Control, top-left hot corner for desktop, 4-finger swipe left/right between spaces.
I don't need anything more than that, and any app that offers more just becomes noise.
I don't need anything more than that, and any app that offers more just becomes noise.
The trackpad gestures is a major reason that Mac is my primary OS while Windows is there when I have to use it.
Even on my "desktop" Mac setup (which is really just my laptop in a dock) I have a full keyboard and the Magic Trackpad joined together with that tool from twelve south.
Thinking about it more I feel like I just use Windows and Mac differently. Most of the time I am in full screen mode (so any windows is just a quick swipe to the left or right) and when I am not I have multiple desktops or I have split full screen mode. Plus using 3 monitors I really just don't find myself switching all that often.
For me Windows feels like the worse management when I get used to what Mac has to offer.
Even on my "desktop" Mac setup (which is really just my laptop in a dock) I have a full keyboard and the Magic Trackpad joined together with that tool from twelve south.
Thinking about it more I feel like I just use Windows and Mac differently. Most of the time I am in full screen mode (so any windows is just a quick swipe to the left or right) and when I am not I have multiple desktops or I have split full screen mode. Plus using 3 monitors I really just don't find myself switching all that often.
For me Windows feels like the worse management when I get used to what Mac has to offer.
KDE is so close to getting the best of both worlds out-of-box for Linux users. I highly recommend it to anyone who has a Magic Trackpad-heavy workflow (and it's probably why KDE is the default on Asahi).
- 4 finger swipe up is an overview for all desktops
- 4 finger swipe down is an overview for all windows
- 3 finger pinch does the MacOS-style desktop overview with your other desktops at the top
All of the gestures are 1:1 with the trackpad, and are functionally very useful. It feels a little cobbled together in current builds, but I'm hoping it gets extra attention with KDE6: https://youtu.be/aBEsxTVRsEo?t=100
- 4 finger swipe up is an overview for all desktops
- 4 finger swipe down is an overview for all windows
- 3 finger pinch does the MacOS-style desktop overview with your other desktops at the top
All of the gestures are 1:1 with the trackpad, and are functionally very useful. It feels a little cobbled together in current builds, but I'm hoping it gets extra attention with KDE6: https://youtu.be/aBEsxTVRsEo?t=100
> Unlike when I use Windows, I just don't use command (alt) tab on Mac. I rely almost entirely on gestures on my trackpad (three fingers swipe up to see all my windows that are not minimized).
First, ⌘+Tab & Alt+Tab do different things; the latter is far superior in doing The Right Thing.
But me too, but I use the gestures because I lack Alt+Tab, not because they're better.
I do like the gesture feature, and I think, even if I had Alt+Tab, gestures would have its own place.
I also wish the catchment for resize wasn't a single pixel in macOS. In Linux, with the shortcuts, it's 1/8th the entire window. Resizing in Linux is the entire window, which is nice now that applications feel the need to invade the title bar. (I'm looking at you, browsers.)
First, ⌘+Tab & Alt+Tab do different things; the latter is far superior in doing The Right Thing.
But me too, but I use the gestures because I lack Alt+Tab, not because they're better.
I do like the gesture feature, and I think, even if I had Alt+Tab, gestures would have its own place.
I also wish the catchment for resize wasn't a single pixel in macOS. In Linux, with the shortcuts, it's 1/8th the entire window. Resizing in Linux is the entire window, which is nice now that applications feel the need to invade the title bar. (I'm looking at you, browsers.)
personally I don't use the magic mouse or the touch pad (only if I work remotely and i have the macbook with me) but the magic mouse is terrible compared to normal mouse. I use a gaming mouse with a ton of macro keys. These keys do various things, most important keys are keys for switching desktops.
The appeal of the Magic Mouse is that it allows gestures like a trackpad. If you are not a gesture person, then it’s just a funny-shaped mouse with a kinky charging method.
That was the appeal for me to try it but it just doesn’t work well. The Magic Mouse is almost unusable to me. It’s shape is so bad for the hand even when using it normally, and it instantly hurt me whenever I tried to do gestures.
I use CMD+TAB prodigiously, but only to switch to the previously open thing or the second-previously open thing. If I'm looking for a certain window I use the three-finger-swipe-up, or, if using the mouse, it has a few extra programmable buttons and one of them is programmed to do that.
It feels like CMD+TAB was designed to be used for this purpose and not for the more general ersatz 'open an application I know is currently running' mode.
But, hey, if you _do_ use it for that, this Witch window switcher seems like a great idea. More power to you!
It feels like CMD+TAB was designed to be used for this purpose and not for the more general ersatz 'open an application I know is currently running' mode.
But, hey, if you _do_ use it for that, this Witch window switcher seems like a great idea. More power to you!
The nice thing about macOS is that there are several equally effective paradigms for window management. For example, you use trackpad gestures for Mission Control as your primary switcher, whereas I use Command+Tab and only use Mission Control sparingly with mouse5 (no trackpad). Likewise, some people use a visible Dock, but I've never seen the point of it.
The problem is MacOs’ window switching behavior when using alt-tab and alt-`. The one switches to the most recently used other software, the other cycles through the windows of the same software.
Now imagine u have 10 terminal windows and 3 chrome windows open. And you switch back and forth between two or three of these windows. In Mac Os you cant really do that, because u have to cycle through all the windows of the same software to get back to the other terminal window youre working on.
And thats why people use non keyboard methods for switching windows, which sux,
I hate Windows, but I also hate Mac Os for its dumb opiniated design choices that after 20 years theres still no option for fixing, so u need to pay 20$ for some tools that give you sane usability (also the the need for better touch tool to get proper tap to drag without a release delay).
And the worst is the fanboys that act like Mac Os’ wonky choices are a necessity because I’m holding wrong and they never had a problem with it.
Now imagine u have 10 terminal windows and 3 chrome windows open. And you switch back and forth between two or three of these windows. In Mac Os you cant really do that, because u have to cycle through all the windows of the same software to get back to the other terminal window youre working on.
And thats why people use non keyboard methods for switching windows, which sux,
I hate Windows, but I also hate Mac Os for its dumb opiniated design choices that after 20 years theres still no option for fixing, so u need to pay 20$ for some tools that give you sane usability (also the the need for better touch tool to get proper tap to drag without a release delay).
And the worst is the fanboys that act like Mac Os’ wonky choices are a necessity because I’m holding wrong and they never had a problem with it.
> I rely almost entirely on gestures on my trackpad (three fingers swipe up to see all my windows that are not minimized).
Is a docked setup just not a thing for most Mac users?
I almost never want to use my laptop as a laptop—the keyboard is too small, looking down at the screen is bad for my neck, and multiple monitors is addictive. But as soon as I set the laptop aside and break out the external keyboard and mouse, Mac's window manager becomes completely unusable. I'm finding that the magic mouse doesn't help much because it's crippled compared to the trackpad and is horribly unergonomic. Hence the external tools to make the keyboard actually useful.
Is a docked setup just not a thing for most Mac users?
I almost never want to use my laptop as a laptop—the keyboard is too small, looking down at the screen is bad for my neck, and multiple monitors is addictive. But as soon as I set the laptop aside and break out the external keyboard and mouse, Mac's window manager becomes completely unusable. I'm finding that the magic mouse doesn't help much because it's crippled compared to the trackpad and is horribly unergonomic. Hence the external tools to make the keyboard actually useful.
> Is a docked setup just not a thing for most Mac users?
Can’t tell for others, but the trackpad is central on how I use my Mac. I can’t imagine using an external mouse/keyboard because it would completely break my workflow. Gestures are extremely convenient when you get used to them.
So yeah, no docking.
I also don’t agree that the keyboard is too small or that multiple monitors is addictive (it’s just convenient). The neck thing is true, which is why I try to keep my main windows on the second monitor, at eye level and bigger
Can’t tell for others, but the trackpad is central on how I use my Mac. I can’t imagine using an external mouse/keyboard because it would completely break my workflow. Gestures are extremely convenient when you get used to them.
So yeah, no docking.
I also don’t agree that the keyboard is too small or that multiple monitors is addictive (it’s just convenient). The neck thing is true, which is why I try to keep my main windows on the second monitor, at eye level and bigger
I found it useful because I try to avoid using mouse as much as possible.
I'm usually docked and using a model-m style keyboard and a standard two button + scroll-wheel mouse. So such gestures aren't really convenient for me. Switching apps is really painful, as I tend to have a few browser windows with different profiles, as well as a couple projects on VS Code open. It's kind of ugly imo.
I wouldn't mind if I could trigger the same gesture (as three finger swipe) with cmd or cmd+ctrl with the scroll wheel.
I wouldn't mind if I could trigger the same gesture (as three finger swipe) with cmd or cmd+ctrl with the scroll wheel.
I use Hyper (Caps) + Space for the 3-fingers up gesture, plus Hyper + q / e for switching desktops and Hyper + w for 3-fingers down. Works very well.
That is making the assumption every user uses the Mac keyboard for typing, I for one don't when I am at my desks.
What exactly am I missing with gestures on Windows vs macOS for this purpose? 3 finger gesture brings up my windows and allows me to drag windows to different workspaces. 4 finger swipes left and right allows me to switch workspaces.
I re-code the 3-fingers movement to drag with mouse, similar to the middle-mouse button. Saves on wrist/finger pressure.
my mac doesn't have a touchpad, so the gestures are a little difficult.
I'm already using [Contexts](https://contexts.co/) for this purpose, and I don't think I need anything else.
Raycast, a drop in replacement for spotlight with support for plugins, also has support for searching windows by title. I rarely even use command tab anymore.
https://www.raycast.com/
https://www.raycast.com/
There's also a ChatGPT plugin which enables you to easily send queries from your launcher. It's the most convenient way to use the tool in my experience.
Interesting. I use a combination of free and open source apps instead of these.
Window management - Rectangle
https://rectangleapp.com/
Alt-Tab improvements: AltTab app
https://alt-tab-macos.netlify.app/
Searching - Alfred
https://www.alfredapp.com/
Between these three, is there anything that Contexts or Witch can do that is worth paying for?
Window management - Rectangle
https://rectangleapp.com/
Alt-Tab improvements: AltTab app
https://alt-tab-macos.netlify.app/
Searching - Alfred
https://www.alfredapp.com/
Between these three, is there anything that Contexts or Witch can do that is worth paying for?
Contexts is amazing, being able to search window titles is how I do almost all my navigation between apps now days, especially when I have code editors open to multiple (4+) different projects.
I have an equivalent installed on Windows (I forget its name) and it is likewise just as amazingly useful.
I have an equivalent installed on Windows (I forget its name) and it is likewise just as amazingly useful.
I would really appreciate if you could remember the name, because I love using Contexts.
Contexts is excellent. There's a free trial. Keyboard FTW!
I configure it to be a minimal cmd-tab switcher that shows all windows for each app. I disable the sidebar and other unnecessary stuff.
I configure it to be a minimal cmd-tab switcher that shows all windows for each app. I disable the sidebar and other unnecessary stuff.
That looks interesting, but does it work in Ventura? They only list Big Sur and Monterey on the website...
Works for me on Ventura.
I also use Contexts, and prefer it over AltTab and others…
I used AltTab first, then switched to Contexts because AltTab imposed a serious performance penalty on my older Intel Mac. Did you also experience that?
Most underrated app!
I switched from KDE to Mac some months back and I'm shocked how many window management features are missing. I'm especially disappointed about the dock. I would love being able to see native window previews when hovering over an application icon. Also I would like to split the dock into the different spaces (virtual desktops). Currently the dock seems not to be considering the fact tha Mac OS supports spaces.
I still want macOS to "borrow" (Read: steal) window snapping from Windows. The mere existence of MultiView on Apple TV gives me hope that someone is at least thinking about how to implement such a system.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Orl5SlmIceA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Orl5SlmIceA
Have you tried Magnet[1] yet? I’ve been using it for years and really love it. TBH, I prefer it over way Windows does it (forcing you to decide wha goes in the “other” side of the screen).
[1] https://magnet.crowdcafe.com/
[1] https://magnet.crowdcafe.com/
magnet's keybindings for me are the best defaults—they are very intuitive, and don't conflict with emacs. rectangle is an alternative i've tried, but magnet is the one for me.
BetterSnapTool is the first thing I install on macOS.
Try Rectangle: https://rectangleapp.com/
Also check out my rcmd app (https://lowtechguys.com/rcmd) for more keyboard centric workflows.
It’s definitely not as powerful as Witch for windows/tabs but rcmd’s one-key approach is instant for app switching.
Witch has some ingenious features indeed: searching browser/editor/terminal tabs, lingering on an app to show its windows etc.
I wish Apple would allow this kind of functionality in App Store apps.
It’s definitely not as powerful as Witch for windows/tabs but rcmd’s one-key approach is instant for app switching.
Witch has some ingenious features indeed: searching browser/editor/terminal tabs, lingering on an app to show its windows etc.
I wish Apple would allow this kind of functionality in App Store apps.
How does it compare to AltTab? https://alt-tab-macos.netlify.app/
This is what I use and would recommend. the nice thing about it is that you can activate the switcher using keyboard and then hover over any window without even clicking on it. when you release the keyboard shortcut, you switch to that window.
it also allows me to hide certain apps from the switcher. like if you have a terminal, you might wanna set up a keyboard shortcut for that and forget about it.
it also allows me to hide certain apps from the switcher. like if you have a terminal, you might wanna set up a keyboard shortcut for that and forget about it.
I like alt Tab, great project and it's open source and has nice maintainers.
Just wish I could turn off the screen recorder feature, as I don't trust any app that does that without exceptional reasons. (In my case, I don't care about thumbnails)
Just wish I could turn off the screen recorder feature, as I don't trust any app that does that without exceptional reasons. (In my case, I don't care about thumbnails)
looks like it has some more features than alt tab that are usually covered by other programs. quick open like Alfred, hibernation like Franz/Ferdium.
I've found rcmd quite useful for window switching. It lets you use the right command key plus another key to switch applications; e.g., right ⌘+s for Safari. It can also display a switcher that shows the letter associations.
https://lowtechguys.com/rcmd/
https://lowtechguys.com/rcmd/
I do something similar with Hammerspoon (which is an amazing app... a little bit of Lua and you can do all sorts of things to the OS!) → https://hammerspoon.org
Because I'm already running Hammerspoon to do things like window management (hotkeys to move and resize windows), control my Streamdeck (without needing to run any other third-party software → https://www.hammerspoon.org/docs/hs.streamdeck.html) and to act as my default browser (so I can use URLDispatcher to do all kinds of "smart" things when URLs are "opened" on my Mac → https://www.hammerspoon.org/Spoons/URLDispatcher.html), etc. it makes sense for me to keep adding functionality with Hammerspoon instead of adding more and more "one off" utilities.
local hammerspoonHotkeys = {
F = { name='Finder' },
P = { name='1Password', alt='1Password 7' },
S = { name='Slack' },
M = { name='Music' },
W = { name='Safari' }, -- 'W' for web
...
}
for key, obj in pairs(hammerspoonHotkeys) do
trigger:bind({}, key, function() openOrHideApp(obj) end)
end
Because I'm already running Hammerspoon to do things like window management (hotkeys to move and resize windows), control my Streamdeck (without needing to run any other third-party software → https://www.hammerspoon.org/docs/hs.streamdeck.html) and to act as my default browser (so I can use URLDispatcher to do all kinds of "smart" things when URLs are "opened" on my Mac → https://www.hammerspoon.org/Spoons/URLDispatcher.html), etc. it makes sense for me to keep adding functionality with Hammerspoon instead of adding more and more "one off" utilities.
Can you switch between just 2 windows (current and most recent) in hammerspoon while holding (and not releasing) an arbitrary modifier key and tapping some other arbitrary key?
I do that with Phoenix: https://taoofmac.com/space/apps/phoenix
I’m sure I’m in the minority, but Stage Manager addressed nearly all of my window management woes on the Mac.
It's an interesting take, but I'm not sure how this deals with multiple windows if all the demos show a primary, active window and everything else "offstage."
I don't need to just see those other windows and their contents, I want to interact with them as well, which SM doesn't seem to do.
I don't need to just see those other windows and their contents, I want to interact with them as well, which SM doesn't seem to do.
I found that cases where I need multiple windows at the same time are actually quite rare in my work. Turned out seeing only the window I work with right now is actually what I needed 90% of the time, so this default behavior is a win.
For the remaining 10%, SM makes it easy to combine windows into a set (this is so far the only instance where I use the new “recent applications” widget, I set it to auto-hide so it never distracts me otherwise). Then with cmd+` you can switch between windows in the same set (even if they are of different apps). You can also tile windows in your set with something like Rectangle, etc.—just make sure not to over-craft sets, they are ephemeral after all.
The ephemeral nature of window sets used to bother me initially—I wanted to persist them across restarts—but after I realized I really focus on one window 90% of the time, and creating ad-hoc window sets is very quick, I no longer find it an issue.
For the remaining 10%, SM makes it easy to combine windows into a set (this is so far the only instance where I use the new “recent applications” widget, I set it to auto-hide so it never distracts me otherwise). Then with cmd+` you can switch between windows in the same set (even if they are of different apps). You can also tile windows in your set with something like Rectangle, etc.—just make sure not to over-craft sets, they are ephemeral after all.
The ephemeral nature of window sets used to bother me initially—I wanted to persist them across restarts—but after I realized I really focus on one window 90% of the time, and creating ad-hoc window sets is very quick, I no longer find it an issue.
What I'm really thinking about is something approaching Snap Layouts from Windows 11. SM kinda, sorta does this, but the layout isn't as nice as what Microsoft did, hence the complaints.
I would argue that the idea that windows are ephemeral doesn't work for all windows in all situations - I'm almost always going to want a window with BBEdit, another with Terminal cd'd to the current project (whatever I might be doing, and there likely will be a fair number of these, more than 1 at least), plus a web browser with email/documentation.
Admittedly, some of my complaints come from having my current setup with a DisplayPort hub and 2 HP displays, yet not having the horsepower to drive them each as independent screens. It's a holdover from a previous setup when there actually was a Windows machine in the mix.
Apple seems to begrudingly acknowledge that people might actually have more than one display in their setup, so features like this sometimes feel incomplete.
See also - the "bug" in prior versions of Spaces which didn't account for multiple monitors correctly. A simple oversight that shows they think about this kind of use last, if at all.
I would argue that the idea that windows are ephemeral doesn't work for all windows in all situations - I'm almost always going to want a window with BBEdit, another with Terminal cd'd to the current project (whatever I might be doing, and there likely will be a fair number of these, more than 1 at least), plus a web browser with email/documentation.
Admittedly, some of my complaints come from having my current setup with a DisplayPort hub and 2 HP displays, yet not having the horsepower to drive them each as independent screens. It's a holdover from a previous setup when there actually was a Windows machine in the mix.
Apple seems to begrudingly acknowledge that people might actually have more than one display in their setup, so features like this sometimes feel incomplete.
See also - the "bug" in prior versions of Spaces which didn't account for multiple monitors correctly. A simple oversight that shows they think about this kind of use last, if at all.
> I would argue that the idea that windows are ephemeral doesn't work for all windows in all situations - I'm almost always going to want a window with BBEdit, another with Terminal cd'd to the current project (whatever I might be doing, and there likely will be a fair number of these, more than 1 at least), plus a web browser with email/documentation.
I thought so, too. However, turns out I work better when I see either an editor window, a terminal window, or a web browser, but not all at the same time. Meaning even if I had them all on screen, every moment in time I really focus only on one, and I do it for minutes at a time—all others meanwhile are visual junk. So SM does just that: focus one window at a time by default, and because command-tab is so readily available switching between full focus on one window to full focus on another window is very fast.
In my case, I could create a multi-window set where I have all of those windows very large and exactly same size (e.g., with Rectangle’s “almost full-screen” feature), and then I would get a bonus way of switching just between those windows (through command-`). I might try it some time.
There are few cases so far where I create multi-window sets arranged so that I see windows simultaneously, for example: 1) when I need to drag things between them repeatedly, such as when organizing files (e.g., moving photography between my SD card, SSD and HDD), or 2) when I’m observing multiple long-running processes in terminal but didn’t bother to run Tmux in the beginning so now I am stuck multiple Terminal windows and I want to see progress in them all. Turns out such cases are pretty rare.
That said, I don’t use multiple displays, I work on laptop and that probably informs my use case.
I thought so, too. However, turns out I work better when I see either an editor window, a terminal window, or a web browser, but not all at the same time. Meaning even if I had them all on screen, every moment in time I really focus only on one, and I do it for minutes at a time—all others meanwhile are visual junk. So SM does just that: focus one window at a time by default, and because command-tab is so readily available switching between full focus on one window to full focus on another window is very fast.
In my case, I could create a multi-window set where I have all of those windows very large and exactly same size (e.g., with Rectangle’s “almost full-screen” feature), and then I would get a bonus way of switching just between those windows (through command-`). I might try it some time.
There are few cases so far where I create multi-window sets arranged so that I see windows simultaneously, for example: 1) when I need to drag things between them repeatedly, such as when organizing files (e.g., moving photography between my SD card, SSD and HDD), or 2) when I’m observing multiple long-running processes in terminal but didn’t bother to run Tmux in the beginning so now I am stuck multiple Terminal windows and I want to see progress in them all. Turns out such cases are pretty rare.
That said, I don’t use multiple displays, I work on laptop and that probably informs my use case.
But unlike on the iPad, you can’t switch between sets with a hotkey—Apple really dropped the ball on that one.
I don’t use SM on iPad, I find it overkill, but maybe that’s because I don’t connect a keyboard.
I’m not sure what you mean about switching between sets. On macOS, any action that focuses any window (like command-tab) switches you to its window set. Do you mean on iPad you can assign individual shortcuts or use numbers to switch between window sets?
I’m not sure what you mean about switching between sets. On macOS, any action that focuses any window (like command-tab) switches you to its window set. Do you mean on iPad you can assign individual shortcuts or use numbers to switch between window sets?
On iPad you have hotkeys to switch between sets.
[deleted]
I like Stage Manager, but I can't get it to play nicely with multiple screens and Rectangle.app. Its behavior is too unpredictable, and I'm not sure how to make it work. Do you have any tips?
I don’t use multiple screens, and I no longer use multiple virtual desktops either, but I outlined my mental model of Stage Manager in a response to another comment if it helps. I do still use Rectangle occasionally.
I tried stage manager for about five minutes before I turned it off because it seriously hindered my workflow. Perhaps I should give it another try.
Had the same initial reaction. Had to tweak settings a bit (e.g., set recent apps to auto-hide) and create a mental model of window sets before it clicked.
My mental model of window sets:
— A window always belongs to one set, with two exceptions: 1) global ephemeral windows like “About This Mac” (they appear in all sets on current desktop) and 2) windows assigned to all desktops via Dock (they appear in all sets and on all desktops).
— You are always “in” a set, even if it’s a 1-set with only this window alone, and you don’t see any windows not in the current set (other than the exceptions above). You can only glimpse other windows via Recent applications, Mission Control, and so on.
Managing window sets:
— Creating a window always drops you into a fresh set with that window alone. While jarring at first, it’s key to me—with a new window I start doing something different and don’t need the distracting baggage of whatever was on screen before that. Can always add windows later (see below).
— Any way that focuses a window now also drops you into its entire window set. This includes: Mission Control (which like before operates individual windows, not sets), ⌘+tab, clicking on app’s Dock icon, window switch from within the app, and so on.
— If you switch to another window set while dragging a window, that window becomes part of the set when you release the drag.
— To remove a window from a multi-window set (creating a new set with only that window alone), long-press the maximize window button and click “Remove Window from Set”.
Recent apps:
— “Recent applications” shows two kinds of things: 1) multi-window sets you created (last focused window on top), and 2) solo window sets grouped by application.
— Recent applications list is scoped to windows on current desktop and excludes the window set you are currently working in.
— You can interact with Recent apps in three ways: 1) click on a set to switch to it, focusing topmost window; 2) click on any app’s icon to show up to 18 recently used window sets with any of that app’s windows; 3) drag the topmost window from any visible set into current set.
— I set it to auto-hide, I only need it when I need to add another window to the current set.
By the way, ⌘+` now works in two ways: 1) if you are in a set of multiple windows, it will switch between windows in the set (regardless of the app); 2) if you are viewing a solo window, it switches between other solo windows of the app (close to old behavior).
This all might sound complex but a couple hours in it works quite intuitively, I find.
My mental model of window sets:
— A window always belongs to one set, with two exceptions: 1) global ephemeral windows like “About This Mac” (they appear in all sets on current desktop) and 2) windows assigned to all desktops via Dock (they appear in all sets and on all desktops).
— You are always “in” a set, even if it’s a 1-set with only this window alone, and you don’t see any windows not in the current set (other than the exceptions above). You can only glimpse other windows via Recent applications, Mission Control, and so on.
Managing window sets:
— Creating a window always drops you into a fresh set with that window alone. While jarring at first, it’s key to me—with a new window I start doing something different and don’t need the distracting baggage of whatever was on screen before that. Can always add windows later (see below).
— Any way that focuses a window now also drops you into its entire window set. This includes: Mission Control (which like before operates individual windows, not sets), ⌘+tab, clicking on app’s Dock icon, window switch from within the app, and so on.
— If you switch to another window set while dragging a window, that window becomes part of the set when you release the drag.
— To remove a window from a multi-window set (creating a new set with only that window alone), long-press the maximize window button and click “Remove Window from Set”.
Recent apps:
— “Recent applications” shows two kinds of things: 1) multi-window sets you created (last focused window on top), and 2) solo window sets grouped by application.
— Recent applications list is scoped to windows on current desktop and excludes the window set you are currently working in.
— You can interact with Recent apps in three ways: 1) click on a set to switch to it, focusing topmost window; 2) click on any app’s icon to show up to 18 recently used window sets with any of that app’s windows; 3) drag the topmost window from any visible set into current set.
— I set it to auto-hide, I only need it when I need to add another window to the current set.
By the way, ⌘+` now works in two ways: 1) if you are in a set of multiple windows, it will switch between windows in the set (regardless of the app); 2) if you are viewing a solo window, it switches between other solo windows of the app (close to old behavior).
This all might sound complex but a couple hours in it works quite intuitively, I find.
I rarely comment on HN but I needed to login and say THANK YOU for this walkthrough of Stage Manager. I didn't even know I could bring in other windows, remove it use Maximize, and more. Just wanted to share my appreciation.
Really glad to know it helped!
I was actually surprised to find that it works really well for me in the end (contrary to my experience on iPad, where I don’t like using SM). I thought it could reasonably “just work” for casual users on intuitive basis, but most advanced users wouldn’t like it—not having a good concept of how things work is a big barrier, and there is absolutely no documentation or good way of discovering this—so I decided to share my understanding lest Apple kills this feature due to lack of demand.
To add to my description one thing that I noticed just now: there’s a distinction in behavior between “heterogenous” window sets and single-app window sets. For example, if your window set is heterogenous—contains windows of multiple apps—then command-` indeed switches only between windows in the same multi-window set (so you won’t leave that set). On the other hand, if current multi-window set consists only of windows from a single app (e.g., multiple Terminal windows), then command-` will switch between 1) windows in current window set, as well as 2) this app’s windows in other homogenous sets (and standalone windows). I’m not a fan of this particular behavior, because every time it kind of breaks my expectations when I leave a multi-window set due to command-`, but maybe it’s because I got used to thinking that command-` only works within a set too quickly.
Add: and there is an outright bug in that if you use command-` while in some non-English keyboard layouts, it starts command-`’ing infinitely. Guessing Apple might be aware but too lazy to figure out their ticket tracker…
I was actually surprised to find that it works really well for me in the end (contrary to my experience on iPad, where I don’t like using SM). I thought it could reasonably “just work” for casual users on intuitive basis, but most advanced users wouldn’t like it—not having a good concept of how things work is a big barrier, and there is absolutely no documentation or good way of discovering this—so I decided to share my understanding lest Apple kills this feature due to lack of demand.
To add to my description one thing that I noticed just now: there’s a distinction in behavior between “heterogenous” window sets and single-app window sets. For example, if your window set is heterogenous—contains windows of multiple apps—then command-` indeed switches only between windows in the same multi-window set (so you won’t leave that set). On the other hand, if current multi-window set consists only of windows from a single app (e.g., multiple Terminal windows), then command-` will switch between 1) windows in current window set, as well as 2) this app’s windows in other homogenous sets (and standalone windows). I’m not a fan of this particular behavior, because every time it kind of breaks my expectations when I leave a multi-window set due to command-`, but maybe it’s because I got used to thinking that command-` only works within a set too quickly.
Add: and there is an outright bug in that if you use command-` while in some non-English keyboard layouts, it starts command-`’ing infinitely. Guessing Apple might be aware but too lazy to figure out their ticket tracker…
I purchased witch several years ago, and my main complaint is that it takes a long time to show all my windows if there's a lot of applications windows, and this did not use to be the case. It's fine if I'm switching between windows in one application, but if I say, want to show all the windows open on my computer, it takes 3+ seconds to display the interface.
I discussed it with the Many tricks support, and apparently it's a problem with MacOS
I discussed it with the Many tricks support, and apparently it's a problem with MacOS
Yeah, I used to be a faithful user and I quit because of this. Many Tricks makes good software, but it seems the APIs they use for some of the window information end up getting very slow under certain circumstances, starting on an OS release somewhere around 2017 if I recall.
One of my favorite things about Witch is the huge amount of customization you could do with it. Defining multiple switchers with different behaviors and different trigger keys is a nice feature too.
One of my favorite things about Witch is the huge amount of customization you could do with it. Defining multiple switchers with different behaviors and different trigger keys is a nice feature too.
Kind of off topic, but has tiling managers for macOS improved in the last few years? I remember I tried one solution (I can’t remember the name now) which worked OK but it was a little buggy some times. Ever since I just use the standard window manager and try to manage with cmd + tab, cmd + `, and gestures to change spaces.
Amethyst is my tiling manager of choice for macOS: https://ianyh.com/amethyst/
It was a little buggy when Ventura dropped, but it gets frequent updates and has stabilized in the past few months.
It was a little buggy when Ventura dropped, but it gets frequent updates and has stabilized in the past few months.
I’ve been using BetterSnapTool for years. Can’t recommend it enough. It takes a bit to configure your zones, but it’s so versatile and easy to use. I have dozens of shortcuts to divide my screen into 3rds, quarters, 6 or 8 equal zones…
https://folivora.ai/bettersnaptool
https://folivora.ai/bettersnaptool
+1 for BetterSnapTool. I've had it for years, one of the first things I install on any new Mac. It's always "just worked" for me, zero issues.
BST is part of BetterTouchTool, which is invaluable on its own.
https://github.com/kasper/phoenix
This let’s you have complete control over tiling.
This let’s you have complete control over tiling.
I have a config for that with window hints and progressive resizing: https://taoofmac.com/space/apps/phoenix
I use skhd and yabai, and it's quite okay. Not as great as i3 under linux, but much better than OSX's defaults for sure.
I love what yabai is trying to do, but it does really suck for no fault of its own.
Which parts of it suck in particular? From the videos I've seen so far it's quite useable but requires configuring tons of stuff, possibly disabling SIP, animations are a bit jaggy (mainly due to macos not providing proper non-blocking apis to certain things), no proper master stack layout etc. But all in all looks pretty useable.
Planning to switch to it now, because all the other options (like using no tiling manager at all, or Amethyst) seem to suck even more.
Planning to switch to it now, because all the other options (like using no tiling manager at all, or Amethyst) seem to suck even more.
It's just slow and full of jank like what you listed. Disabling SIP is mandatory if you don't want to feel like you need to blow your brains out. (Another issue is that many windows can't be resized at all on macOS, yet yabai allocates the full space for them and puts them in the top-left corner.)
Don't get me wrong, none of this is an issue with yabai, just with macOS. If I were forced to use macOS for work I'd use yabai too. But I've arranged my life so I never have to touch macOS professionally.
Don't get me wrong, none of this is an issue with yabai, just with macOS. If I were forced to use macOS for work I'd use yabai too. But I've arranged my life so I never have to touch macOS professionally.
And Rectangle. I really like it’s Window Throw method in the Pro version.
The problem with the built-in methods is that they use spaces and split them for windows. That locks you into that space just as full-screen view does.
The problem with the built-in methods is that they use spaces and split them for windows. That locks you into that space just as full-screen view does.
I’ve used Magnet for ages. It’s pretty expensive now though—I think it was only a couple of dollars when I bought it. https://apps.apple.com/us/app/magnet/id441258766?mt=12
Have been using Moom for ages, and still sticking with it for now! Works well!
The trial expires after triggering Witch 50 times, and I was only beginning to configure it. Trial should be a a day or two for me to choose if I like it or not.
I have been a long time MacOS user and the app/window switching never made any sense to me. Windows and Linux just does it better.
I'm not a Witch user (found it to Windowsy), but I can highly recommend Moom and NameMangler from the same dev.
Big fan of Moom. It adds light window snapping functionality that only reveals itself when I’m explicitly looking for it… no annoying snap-proposal animations or unintended snaps when I drag windows somewhere near a screen edge.
I’m a big fan of the functionality of witch and have had it installed for years. But honestly I’ve just about given up on it. It keeps breaking. Mac OS of course keeps updating itself and very often those updates cause Witch to stop working. It seems like I used to be able to fix it just by re enabling a permission setting. (Which is fairly obnoxious that I have to do this over and over again - how many times do I have to authorize the same app?) But recently it still doesn’t work after authorizing. And now whenever I hit the magic key combo the security dialog comes up and I can’t fix it. At this point it just doesn’t seem worth the hassle.
Cute app, but you can already switch tabs (opt + cmd + arrows) and windows (cmd + `)?
I'll just quickly plug Kanel ([link redacted]) which I use to generate Typescript types from a Postgres database. I agree with the author to think migrations-first, though I prefer to write them in SQL to ensure I can utilize all the powerful features that Postgres has to offer.
With it, I only get types for the tables and views etc., so any join will be untyped if done client-side. This is still a big win in my opinion, and I much prefer it to normal ORM's.
With it, I only get types for the tables and views etc., so any join will be untyped if done client-side. This is still a big win in my opinion, and I much prefer it to normal ORM's.
wrong topic / hn thread?
Indeed, but I can't delete it now. Oh well, thanks for the heads up!
Coming from AltTab, what does Witch do better?
Hey awesome tool!
Myself; I’ve been using the “Windows” feature in Raycast; I highly recommend it. Extremely intuitive. I assign it to a shortcut and then use it to automatically list all the open windows I have and I just search through them to open the one I want
Myself; I’ve been using the “Windows” feature in Raycast; I highly recommend it. Extremely intuitive. I assign it to a shortcut and then use it to automatically list all the open windows I have and I just search through them to open the one I want
Witch looks awesome, and I think has a killer feature I've been looking for for a while on linux (slightly off topic).
I use rofi on linux to surface a dialog that allows me to execute programs, surface an X window, or change to a different tmux session. Rofi natively supports the first two, the tmux pane/session switcher being a little 10 line extension I wrote in bash.
I love rofi and the ability to do this, but there is a 'white whale' in this workflow setup that I have not been able to crack: A rofi dialog that displays and surfaces browser tabs. I have fought with chromium dev mode/flags/options on several occasions trying to plumb together something like this, but cannot for the life of me figure it out; apparently chromium does not really want you to get a list of tabs from outside the browser.
Has anyone with a similar workflow found a solution for this? I'd be willing to switch browsers, or try anything really.
I use rofi on linux to surface a dialog that allows me to execute programs, surface an X window, or change to a different tmux session. Rofi natively supports the first two, the tmux pane/session switcher being a little 10 line extension I wrote in bash.
I love rofi and the ability to do this, but there is a 'white whale' in this workflow setup that I have not been able to crack: A rofi dialog that displays and surfaces browser tabs. I have fought with chromium dev mode/flags/options on several occasions trying to plumb together something like this, but cannot for the life of me figure it out; apparently chromium does not really want you to get a list of tabs from outside the browser.
Has anyone with a similar workflow found a solution for this? I'd be willing to switch browsers, or try anything really.
If I understand what you want correctly, you'd like to be able to hit a chord that opens rofi, type (say) "python typing", hit ENTER and have your system unite you and the browser tab whose title was the best fuzzy match for what you typed.
I agree that'd be great. I don't have that solution for you, but I can describe the workaround I've been using in my environment.
I use dmenu to switch between i3 workspaces by name [0]. Probably 80% of my workspaces contain a single browser window with multiple tabs (i.e. I'm currently on workspace "hn" which contains one Firefox window with 17 hackernews-or-hn-adjacent tabs).
My flow:
- With the browser window in my current workspace active
- I hit CTL+L (to focus the address bar)
- I type "%python typing" (in Firefox, the % prefix makes the query fuzzy match open tab titles across all browser windows)
- Select the tab title I want from the results and hit ENTER (surfaces the tab in its window and causes that tab's window to assign itself the X11 "urgent" flag)
- Read the 2-letter workspace name that is now highlighted in red at the bottom of my screen (i3 highlighted it because it contains a window with the "urgent" flag)
- Hit SUPER+C (to open dmenu with my workspace names)
- Type the 2-letter workspace name and hit ENTER (to switch to that workspace, where the tab is surfaced and waiting for me)
I do use rofi as my application launcher, though, and you're making me curious if it's possible to exfiltrate tab titles from Firefox. It'd be pretty slick to cut back from two chords+queries to one.
0: Reddit post I made a while back describing my setup, includes a video https://old.reddit.com/r/unixporn/comments/udd0zg/i3gaps_flu...
I agree that'd be great. I don't have that solution for you, but I can describe the workaround I've been using in my environment.
I use dmenu to switch between i3 workspaces by name [0]. Probably 80% of my workspaces contain a single browser window with multiple tabs (i.e. I'm currently on workspace "hn" which contains one Firefox window with 17 hackernews-or-hn-adjacent tabs).
My flow:
- With the browser window in my current workspace active
- I hit CTL+L (to focus the address bar)
- I type "%python typing" (in Firefox, the % prefix makes the query fuzzy match open tab titles across all browser windows)
- Select the tab title I want from the results and hit ENTER (surfaces the tab in its window and causes that tab's window to assign itself the X11 "urgent" flag)
- Read the 2-letter workspace name that is now highlighted in red at the bottom of my screen (i3 highlighted it because it contains a window with the "urgent" flag)
- Hit SUPER+C (to open dmenu with my workspace names)
- Type the 2-letter workspace name and hit ENTER (to switch to that workspace, where the tab is surfaced and waiting for me)
I do use rofi as my application launcher, though, and you're making me curious if it's possible to exfiltrate tab titles from Firefox. It'd be pretty slick to cut back from two chords+queries to one.
0: Reddit post I made a while back describing my setup, includes a video https://old.reddit.com/r/unixporn/comments/udd0zg/i3gaps_flu...
This app called Finda https://keminglabs.com/finda/setup/#chrome-and-firefox-tabs has to use an extension to support this functionality. That seems like a fairly reliable way to get the list of tabs, with the downside that writing a browser extension is a lot less trivial than having a quick command line thing.
I used to use Phoenix (mentioned elsewhere on this thread) to do a typeahead-style window finder. It would pop up a list of all windows and you could choose from them, but you could type to filter the list down. Very similar to rofi's window mode.
The only thing I need from the existing app switcher is for it to ignore minimised apps.
That way I can have many apps open, but only care about a few at a time. And keep my focus.
Annoying that I have to install ae wizzbang addition to achieve such a simple thing.
That way I can have many apps open, but only care about a few at a time. And keep my focus.
Annoying that I have to install ae wizzbang addition to achieve such a simple thing.
macOS, the only OS that still empower its devs to do UX usable with a mouse and keyboard
Windows/Linux on the other hand, is all about scrolling
https://i.imgur.com/LYytae6.png
Why does this Linux/GTK desktop program looks like an iOS setting menu?
Compare to this, all settings available without scrolling: https://manytricks.com/witch/images/4/multiswitch_big.png
Windows/Linux on the other hand, is all about scrolling
https://i.imgur.com/LYytae6.png
Why does this Linux/GTK desktop program looks like an iOS setting menu?
Compare to this, all settings available without scrolling: https://manytricks.com/witch/images/4/multiswitch_big.png
You may be already aware of this, but macOS Ventura (maybe earlier versions too) changed System Preferences to work more similarly to iOS. Lots of scrolling and nearly all the checkboxes are toggle switches.
See, you guys don't understand, they only changed the categories (that's understandable because they added plenty, similar to the permission menu), the content menu and controls remain the same, optimized for a trackpad and mouse+KB combo
https://support.apple.com/en-bn/guide/mac-help/mh15217/
Again, compare this with the Gnome/GTK screenshot I shared above..
UX for vertical vs horizontal screens (desktop/laptop vs smartphone), macOS did it right, Gnome did it wrong and Windows is following Gnome's mistake
Another example: https://i.imgur.com/atT4Xkg.png
XFCE's file manager vs Gnome's one
One optimized for trackpad and mouse/KB combo, the other is looking like a smartphone UX, you constantly need to scroll, and "tap" on huge controls, not optimized for a mouse pointer, and not optimized for keyboard navigation
https://support.apple.com/en-bn/guide/mac-help/mh15217/
Again, compare this with the Gnome/GTK screenshot I shared above..
UX for vertical vs horizontal screens (desktop/laptop vs smartphone), macOS did it right, Gnome did it wrong and Windows is following Gnome's mistake
Another example: https://i.imgur.com/atT4Xkg.png
XFCE's file manager vs Gnome's one
One optimized for trackpad and mouse/KB combo, the other is looking like a smartphone UX, you constantly need to scroll, and "tap" on huge controls, not optimized for a mouse pointer, and not optimized for keyboard navigation
GNOME has been trying (unsuccessfully) to copy the Mac look and feel for several years.
I love macs for their general feel, but the windowing paradigm is just weird. Their ux team should try i3 for a few months and come up with ab Apple version of that.
Cmd+`, anyone?…
After https://SwayWM.org I have told prospective employers that I'm gonna have to use a Linux system when working there and if not it's okay I can work somewhere else.
"But our security team can only support Mac and Windows" is a sad joke I hear too often.
A couple years ago I turned down an employment package offer that was too good to turn down and said I could be available as a contractor. A big part was I didn't wanna be forced to use a f**ing Mac. Taxes made more sense too so yeah.
"But our security team can only support Mac and Windows" is a sad joke I hear too often.
A couple years ago I turned down an employment package offer that was too good to turn down and said I could be available as a contractor. A big part was I didn't wanna be forced to use a f**ing Mac. Taxes made more sense too so yeah.
A hard requirement on what OS we wanna use is not a luxury most of us can afford. Good for you though to be along the few who can.
I had some success with this, but then came the issues with screensharing on zoom, so they got me in the end.
Zoom is such nasty software I only permit it to be run in a VM.
Wow this is fantastic. I was gifted a MacBook a few months ago and I am continually surprised to learn how many features I just take for granted in windows. MacOS often feels very similar to Linux in that the core OS is very barebones and needs a ton of extensions to really be useable. The difference being in Linux most of the extensions are OSS while in MacOS they’re each $9.99.
It really just comes down to a different paradigm. I agree that I prefer how Windows handles a lot of things and gives you a lot built-in these days, especially once you add PowerToys
This comes down a lot to your personal expectations. As someone who grew up on both Mac and Windows equally, I find its Windows that tends to lack really basic stuff that I take for granted in my day-to-day Mac usage.
Are they oss though? I am struggling to get something similar to bartender and little snitch on my Linux dev machine but so far, I couldn’t even find alternatives.
For a Little Snitch alternative on Linux have you tried OpenSnitch? https://github.com/evilsocket/opensnitch
For example, the CMD+Tab task switcher seems natural, but it has an issue where you can select an app and it does absolutely nothing, which is both infuriating and incomprehensible. Is it ignoring me because the app is minimized? Did it send it to another desktop? I have no idea! It must be deterministic, but I'll be damned if I can figure it out. I am sure "real mac users" get it, and I'm happy for them, but poor benighted souls like me just wonder why their $2500 computer isn't doing what they're telling it to. And whatever that perfectly good reason is, there is an even more perfectly good reason to make it work the way users expect.
The Dock has the same issue with letting you click on an app, and then not bringing that app on screen, or telling me why it's ignoring my command. Both of the above patterns work better in Windows, and have worked better for decades, and Apple designers should be a little ashamed of that.
Mission Control is probably the most useful method, because it actually brings selected applications on screen (the minimum functionality you would expect). However, it does not support keyboard shortcuts for navigating and selecting an application! How is this possible? It feels like a couple story point ticket to me, yet it remains a problem after a decade. Maybe Apple stubbornly assumes everyone will use a touchpad for everything, despite them selling products without touchpads in them. For money.
The other problem with Mission Control is that it should not require your entire screen to switch apps. It feels too form-over-function to me.
I tried the newest entry, Stage Manager, for several months. It's like a cross between Mission Control and the Dock. It works well (that is, it does what it's supposed to), except it's missing the ability to change the size of the window thumbnails. It takes up quite a lot of the screen for the value it gives you. Not that being able to select a window and switch to it isn't valuable, just that that's how the Dock should already work, and Dock doesn't take up 10-15% of the screen.