MacBook Pro with faster performance and new features for pros(apple.com)
apple.com
MacBook Pro with faster performance and new features for pros
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2018/07/apple-updates-macbook-pro-with-faster-performance-and-new-features-for-pros/
1,173 comments
> The new keyboard has the same dimensions and look as its two predecessors, but the keys feel just a little bit different. They're quieter, for one thing. They have a softer, less click-y feel that is a little closer to the pre-2016 models' chiclet keys. We found the new keyboard to be a little nicer to type on, but it's not a radical difference. It's unlikely to convert the detractors, but it's a welcome iteration for those who liked or didn't mind the previous butterfly keyboards.
I'm going to wait a year, maybe 18 months for feedback before I consider upgrading. Why they couldn't grab a 2012-2015 model and upgrade the guts? No touchbar, smaller touchpad than the newer macbooks, but updated specs? Call it Macbook Developer... We build the software for the "Pros" after all.
I just don't get it.
I'm going to wait a year, maybe 18 months for feedback before I consider upgrading. Why they couldn't grab a 2012-2015 model and upgrade the guts? No touchbar, smaller touchpad than the newer macbooks, but updated specs? Call it Macbook Developer... We build the software for the "Pros" after all.
I just don't get it.
It's not possible to buy it without the TouchBar any more :(
I really wanted to like it, and the concept could perhaps eventually be good, but the current implementation is infuriatingly bad:
• I need more than one tap to change the brightness, volume or skip to the next song.
• The buttons are in different locations depending on context, so it's not possible to use it by muscle memory.
• TouchBar automatically goes to sleep, making the previous two points worse.
• It's not even that good for its intended purpose. Previews of things on it are too tiny. Most actions still require multiple taps, and it's in the uncanny valley between direct and indirect manipulation.
Fingerprint sensor is convenient, but the TouchBar ended up being a gimmick, not a pro feature.
I really wanted to like it, and the concept could perhaps eventually be good, but the current implementation is infuriatingly bad:
• I need more than one tap to change the brightness, volume or skip to the next song.
• The buttons are in different locations depending on context, so it's not possible to use it by muscle memory.
• TouchBar automatically goes to sleep, making the previous two points worse.
• It's not even that good for its intended purpose. Previews of things on it are too tiny. Most actions still require multiple taps, and it's in the uncanny valley between direct and indirect manipulation.
Fingerprint sensor is convenient, but the TouchBar ended up being a gimmick, not a pro feature.
"... so many reports that it can be rendered inoperable by a grain of sand and that is incredibly difficult and expensive to repair or replace. This new third-generation keyboard wasn’t designed to solve those issues, Apple says."
https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/12/17563640/apple-macbook-pr...
https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/12/17563640/apple-macbook-pr...
I’m glad to see that Apple has finally updated its MacBook Pro line, but it’s a little too late for me. After using Macs for nearly 12 years, I bought a Dell XPS 15 9570 a week after WWDC 2018 (I couldn’t put off a new computer purchase any longer), and I couldn’t be happier. It turns out that Windows 10 really shines on a computer with six processor cores, a 4K display, and a NVMe SSD, a dramatic improvement from the refurbished ThinkPad T430 I used with a spinning hard disk and a 1366x768 display. Windows 10 shines on top-of-the-line hardware, and I’ve found the experience to be quite competitive to macOS so far for my needs. Granted, I’m still getting used to the Windows ecosystem again after being away from it for 12 years, and there are still some aspects of Windows 10 that annoy me (namely the prevelance of ads), but other than that it’s quite an improvement from my Windows XP days.
Anyway, I’m pleased that Apple updated its MacBook Pro lineup today, and I hope that Apple will start regularly updating its Macs again. Competition is very important in the personal computing marketplace. I’m glad that Windows 10 is working well for me, and I hope that Apple will still be a force in computing so that way Microsoft won’t get lazy again like they did in the dark ages of Internet Explorer 6. I have a Mac Pro I still use regularly as a desktop at home, and so I still have one foot in the Mac ecosystem.
Anyway, I’m pleased that Apple updated its MacBook Pro lineup today, and I hope that Apple will start regularly updating its Macs again. Competition is very important in the personal computing marketplace. I’m glad that Windows 10 is working well for me, and I hope that Apple will still be a force in computing so that way Microsoft won’t get lazy again like they did in the dark ages of Internet Explorer 6. I have a Mac Pro I still use regularly as a desktop at home, and so I still have one foot in the Mac ecosystem.
After ongoing problems and repairs with my gen 2 butterfly, I switched to Linux (Ubuntu). After many months, I'm still a little shocked at how much worse the desktop experience is. 11 year old OS X Leopard is more consistent, intuitive and usable.
Hardware is slightly less polished, but no major complaints there (except for how poor the buying experience was).
Still, keyboard works. It would take something amazing to win me back (like a custom CPU that just completely redefines what we expect from battery life and performance)
Hardware is slightly less polished, but no major complaints there (except for how poor the buying experience was).
Still, keyboard works. It would take something amazing to win me back (like a custom CPU that just completely redefines what we expect from battery life and performance)
I have limited eyesight - good enough to work on a bright magnified computer screen. When I bought a new Macbook Pro I couldn't read the Touchbar and of course there's no tactile feedback. It's even worse that the keys can change with context. Due to my eyesight I also often tweak the screen brightness for best readability with the up/down function keys. The slider doesn't work well for incremental adjustments especially when you can't see it clearly.
I returned the Macbook within a week and had to buy a lower model with real function keys.
I tried configuring fixed locations for the most important keys but could not work without the tactile feedback of being centered on a given key. I guess there's some sort of voiceover but it would be annoying and slow. I didn't need voiceover before so why would I want to use it now to accommodate Apples latest gimmick?
Actually I wonder if it would work to add tactile feedback by 3D printing a thin overlay that adds frames around keys configured for fixed location. Or maybe someone could offer a product that is a Touchbar overlay made of clingy silicone?
Edit: Something else I wanted to add: I've tried switching to Windows (several times) but I can't work without Apple's Ctrl + two-finger up/down full screen magnification. Window's magnifier is a poor substitute because it's not full screen. The magnifier can be made the size of the screen but then it's clunky to move the focus of magnifier, and update is jittery. If anyone from Microsoft is reading this, please look at Apple's screen zoom and give your magnifier a mode like that - a full screen infinitely variable zoom that continually centers the focus on the mouse pointer.
I returned the Macbook within a week and had to buy a lower model with real function keys.
I tried configuring fixed locations for the most important keys but could not work without the tactile feedback of being centered on a given key. I guess there's some sort of voiceover but it would be annoying and slow. I didn't need voiceover before so why would I want to use it now to accommodate Apples latest gimmick?
Actually I wonder if it would work to add tactile feedback by 3D printing a thin overlay that adds frames around keys configured for fixed location. Or maybe someone could offer a product that is a Touchbar overlay made of clingy silicone?
Edit: Something else I wanted to add: I've tried switching to Windows (several times) but I can't work without Apple's Ctrl + two-finger up/down full screen magnification. Window's magnifier is a poor substitute because it's not full screen. The magnifier can be made the size of the screen but then it's clunky to move the focus of magnifier, and update is jittery. If anyone from Microsoft is reading this, please look at Apple's screen zoom and give your magnifier a mode like that - a full screen infinitely variable zoom that continually centers the focus on the mouse pointer.
I'm looking forward to the very first "real development takes 64GB RAM, 32 just isn't enough" complaints.
Honestly, this looks like a good revision. I've been wanting a quad core 13 inch for a while.
Hopefully the keyboard revision helps with all of the issues people have had.
Honestly, this looks like a good revision. I've been wanting a quad core 13 inch for a while.
Hopefully the keyboard revision helps with all of the issues people have had.
Looking at the specs on the sales pages:
https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/15-inch https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/13-inch
It's interesting to me that they've widened the gap between the 13" and 15" -- it looks like the 15 has been updated to use DDR4 while the 13 is still on LPDDR3. I get where they're coming from in that the 15 has notably more battery to work with, but it seems surprising that they'd widen that gap between devices.
At this point (assuming no issues with gen3-keyboard) I think a lot of people will find the 15" to be a great pro laptop and the 13" will still be rather disappointing to many. Here's hoping some reviewers do a meaningful comparison between the two.
https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/15-inch https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/13-inch
It's interesting to me that they've widened the gap between the 13" and 15" -- it looks like the 15 has been updated to use DDR4 while the 13 is still on LPDDR3. I get where they're coming from in that the 15 has notably more battery to work with, but it seems surprising that they'd widen that gap between devices.
At this point (assuming no issues with gen3-keyboard) I think a lot of people will find the 15" to be a great pro laptop and the 13" will still be rather disappointing to many. Here's hoping some reviewers do a meaningful comparison between the two.
I would pay a lot for a 15 of the current model that did NOT have a touch bar. Everything about the new MBPs I can deal with except that.
Also, the fact that they keep the higher spec-d models with the touch bar and if you want no touch bar you have to get low-spec-d 13s is downright hostile to consumer choice.
Please Apple, you're leaving money on the table here.
Also, the fact that they keep the higher spec-d models with the touch bar and if you want no touch bar you have to get low-spec-d 13s is downright hostile to consumer choice.
Please Apple, you're leaving money on the table here.
As a developer the new keyboards have ruined macbooks for me - I find my macbook pro quite comfortable to type on for longer periods when I am away from my desk. I feel like the new keyboards are not practical for real use and it doesn't sound like the new models will greatly improve that which is a shame because I would love an upgrade.
I think those keyboards are great on the smaller more portable macbooks but I don't understand why the 'pro' models are favouring a couple of mm in size over a more practical keyboard designed for 'pro' use.
I think those keyboards are great on the smaller more portable macbooks but I don't understand why the 'pro' models are favouring a couple of mm in size over a more practical keyboard designed for 'pro' use.
They need to take a page from “G4 Cube” and kill this entire product design, not tweak it.
Touch Bar adds cost (both money and battery) for a net negative in functionality and has no external-keyboard equivalent. Wrong design, take it out.
Machine is thin enough to cause unwanted trade-offs in capacity and performance. Wrong design, take it out.
“Improved” keyboard means waiting more years to see if it breaks, whereas “reverted 100% to 2013 keyboard” might have created instant customers. Flaky keyboard frought with risk? Wrong design, take it out.
There is nothing about this design that deserves risking spending so much money on it. They haven’t truly fixed any of the requests (except maybe maximum RAM).
Touch Bar adds cost (both money and battery) for a net negative in functionality and has no external-keyboard equivalent. Wrong design, take it out.
Machine is thin enough to cause unwanted trade-offs in capacity and performance. Wrong design, take it out.
“Improved” keyboard means waiting more years to see if it breaks, whereas “reverted 100% to 2013 keyboard” might have created instant customers. Flaky keyboard frought with risk? Wrong design, take it out.
There is nothing about this design that deserves risking spending so much money on it. They haven’t truly fixed any of the requests (except maybe maximum RAM).
This seems like a pretty unusual/rare step of releasing an upgrade with just a press release; they clearly wanted to get this machine out before some part of the buying cycle rather than waiting for a press event. I know it's still just a spec bump, but it's different enough that it would normally appear at an event.
I don't need to rehash all of the 2015 vs touchbar arguments, the touchbar machine is "good enough" that I like it as my work machine. But as my 2011 Air home "kitchen table" machine (128gb ssd/4gb RAM) is getting infuriatingly slow, I realized I don't have to decide between a Macbook or a Macbook Pro to replace it. Suddenly buying a gently used 2015 Macbook Pro to replace it seems like a killer idea. Not quite as svelte as my work machine, and nowhere near as light as the air, but for a versatile home/travel machine, having the great keyboard, USB ports, and most importantly, CHEAPER than a brand new one, would really sell me.
I don't need to rehash all of the 2015 vs touchbar arguments, the touchbar machine is "good enough" that I like it as my work machine. But as my 2011 Air home "kitchen table" machine (128gb ssd/4gb RAM) is getting infuriatingly slow, I realized I don't have to decide between a Macbook or a Macbook Pro to replace it. Suddenly buying a gently used 2015 Macbook Pro to replace it seems like a killer idea. Not quite as svelte as my work machine, and nowhere near as light as the air, but for a versatile home/travel machine, having the great keyboard, USB ports, and most importantly, CHEAPER than a brand new one, would really sell me.
I'm definitively buying this one. Upgraded RAM and processors. Good Graphic card. And 512Gb of SSD is plenty for my line of work.
Now to the issues:
- The keyboard: I don't know. I say wait and see. I'll probably wait a few months to see if there are any bad news. Worst case scenario, I'll just take extra care.
- Touchbar: Do not mind this one.
- Battery life: I'm concerned that the top spec laptop will have poor battery life.
I think this macbook is good given that it is an update not a new re-design. I say wait and see.
Now to the issues:
- The keyboard: I don't know. I say wait and see. I'll probably wait a few months to see if there are any bad news. Worst case scenario, I'll just take extra care.
- Touchbar: Do not mind this one.
- Battery life: I'm concerned that the top spec laptop will have poor battery life.
I think this macbook is good given that it is an update not a new re-design. I say wait and see.
If only they might restore the escape key in the 15 inch model...
I wonder why the marginal price of more SSD storage is positive, non linear
+512GB | 0.78 / GB
+1.5TB | 1.56 / GB
+3.5TB | 1.79 / GB
The keyboard and the touch bar are deal breakers for me. For the first time in a while I've been considering buying a new laptop, but the touch bar is basically zero utility and the keyboard is negative utility. I can't spend $2400+ on a laptop and feel good about it.
The touch bar is an ergonomic nightmare.
Apple's soul truly died back in 2011 with the loss of Steve Jobs.
Their computers are now appropriate funeral attire. Lifeless, fragile and gaunt. The operating system, a pale reflection of the past, reminds me of disney movies and EA games these days -- forumlaic, unimaginative, designed to take your money. iTunes sucks the soul right out of you. It's Apple's laboratory and you're the experiment. Welcome to an homogenous, sterile prison of an operating system. You're no longer unique, nor empowered with an Apple computer. When the shallow keyboards make your fingers sore, when you need to replace the $600 display of your 12" macbook because you pinched the screen for the first time, you'll lose your love for Apple. Something like this will happen to you
Apple's soul truly died back in 2011 with the loss of Steve Jobs.
Their computers are now appropriate funeral attire. Lifeless, fragile and gaunt. The operating system, a pale reflection of the past, reminds me of disney movies and EA games these days -- forumlaic, unimaginative, designed to take your money. iTunes sucks the soul right out of you. It's Apple's laboratory and you're the experiment. Welcome to an homogenous, sterile prison of an operating system. You're no longer unique, nor empowered with an Apple computer. When the shallow keyboards make your fingers sore, when you need to replace the $600 display of your 12" macbook because you pinched the screen for the first time, you'll lose your love for Apple. Something like this will happen to you
Lol that main image showing the laptop with a USBC -> display dongle... at least they are being representative.
I hear all the complaints about keyboard and touchbar, but we use these with external keyboards and never use the touchbar.
32GB DDR4 Ram and 6 Core processors honestly is making this a no-brainer here. We have been waiting on the ram for years. Price is the big question. At this time, the Select on the apple store is disabled so no idea what this will cost.
32GB DDR4 Ram and 6 Core processors honestly is making this a no-brainer here. We have been waiting on the ram for years. Price is the big question. At this time, the Select on the apple store is disabled so no idea what this will cost.
The most interesting thing here is that Apple previously did not ship 32gb ram in laptops because it was not available as a LPDDR3 single chip. Here you see the 15 inch models now use DDR4 (not LP - low power).
Basically Phil Schiller relented and said, meh, fuck it, lets give them what they want and put the more power hungry DDR4 in there. I wonder why the chip manufacturers couldn't make LPDDR4 or 32gb LPDDR3 modules after all this time.
Basically Phil Schiller relented and said, meh, fuck it, lets give them what they want and put the more power hungry DDR4 in there. I wonder why the chip manufacturers couldn't make LPDDR4 or 32gb LPDDR3 modules after all this time.
I don't mind about touchbar being there or not, just make escape key physical again :-(
It's not that hard, I mean, esc takes half the size of a regular key. Right below it in old Macbooks we have a full sized key just for ~` they could make the space of this full sized key contain instead two half sized keys.
The top would be esc, the bottom would be ~`. If you notice the Macbook already has this, for the up/down arrows. They are two half sized keys taking the footprint of a single full sized key.
It's not that hard, I mean, esc takes half the size of a regular key. Right below it in old Macbooks we have a full sized key just for ~` they could make the space of this full sized key contain instead two half sized keys.
The top would be esc, the bottom would be ~`. If you notice the Macbook already has this, for the up/down arrows. They are two half sized keys taking the footprint of a single full sized key.
32gb MAX ram is a nice change, and the true-tone display is a positive. Really wish Apple were in the nVidia camp instead of the ATI camp.
Apple have improved (and probably fixed) the keyboard and increased maximum RAM top 32GB for the 15-inch. These resolving two of the most common complaints seen here previously.
Apple have also improved the display, added Siri, better system security and much faster CPUs. The leather sleeves are nice too - wildly expensive but lovely.
It's sad therefore to read so many complaints here - but I suspect many people have silently purchased one.
It's sad therefore to read so many complaints here - but I suspect many people have silently purchased one.
Doubling down on the Meme Bar. Yikes. Did they at least add some kind of haptic response for the new generation touch bar?
I would advise folks to hold off on this. I've a base configuration iMac Pro. There is an issue with either the video card, T2 chip or some combination of the 2.(or maybe something entirely different) There is a kernel panic issue that has yet to be solved, even though there is a very long thread going on the apple support community. Ive been contacted by apple engineers based on my participation in the thread, so I believe they are on the verge of officially acknowledging a problem here. So far those affected have done everything from re-imaging, replacing and returning their iMac Pros and nothing has fixed this issue. I want to upgrade my macbook pro, but until they fix this, Im not buying any more macs...
Not a MacBook user, but being in a US university campus for almost 5 years now there is one change that I noticed with the latest crop of Macbooks. Everyone seems to carry their chargers. 2-3 years ago really I don't remember any Mac user carrying a charger.
I just switched to Mac for work 2 months ago... Before that I was using a 2016 Razer Blade Stealth (which I loved)...
Touchbar is worse than useless for me because I am constantly accidentally grazing the esc key on the touch bar with my ring finger... infuriating. Keyboard is pretty bad also... I needed to take my macbook to the apple store (thunderbolt issue) and so I had to use a loaner for a week... I got the last macbook before the 2017 one... SO much better! First of all having a variety of ports is awesome... keyboard is awesome... Why did they just not add 2 thunderbolt ports and a 4k screen to that one (and upgrade CPU etc)?
Touchbar is worse than useless for me because I am constantly accidentally grazing the esc key on the touch bar with my ring finger... infuriating. Keyboard is pretty bad also... I needed to take my macbook to the apple store (thunderbolt issue) and so I had to use a loaner for a week... I got the last macbook before the 2017 one... SO much better! First of all having a variety of ports is awesome... keyboard is awesome... Why did they just not add 2 thunderbolt ports and a 4k screen to that one (and upgrade CPU etc)?
This hardware should have been here in the previous iteration. Also, I've yet to meet a single person who fancies the touch bar. It's now just something that's tolerated. Bring back the hard keys, shorten the oversized track pad, and add a shorter touch bar to the top if you really want to keep it.
(All prices Canadian)
- A $2400 entry price for a quad-core 13" Macbook Pro. - Minimum $3675 spend for a Macbook with 32GB of memory (and still only comes with 256GB of storage). - Non-touchbar Macbook Pro stagnating with 7th-gen dual-core at the same exact price.
Looks like I'll be holding on to my 2014 model like grim death.
- A $2400 entry price for a quad-core 13" Macbook Pro. - Minimum $3675 spend for a Macbook with 32GB of memory (and still only comes with 256GB of storage). - Non-touchbar Macbook Pro stagnating with 7th-gen dual-core at the same exact price.
Looks like I'll be holding on to my 2014 model like grim death.
Maybe instead we could have a row of keys that provide some sort of function, and maybe a key that allows the user to escape. That would be a pretty useful feature that I can guarantee I would use dozens or hundreds of times a day.
I'm considering replacing my MacBook Pro soon, and I might have to drop macOS from my 3 OS lineup. I can't justify an expensive but locked down desktop machine, so if the laptops aren't meeting my needs either then goodbye Apple.