Ask HN: Dell paved my hard drive with Windows, now what?
8 comments
Did you not back it up before you sent it to be repaired?
When you sent it in you made an agreement that they are not responsible for your data. Read the fine print.
I backed up the hard drive. I am sure I can get that back. I didn't remove the hard drive, though. I am amazed that Dell went so far out of its way to give me exactly what I did not want.
A large part of the trouble is the boot sector jiggery-pokery that I will have to redo to get UEFI removed.
A large part of the trouble is the boot sector jiggery-pokery that I will have to redo to get UEFI removed.
Wise of you to backup!
If Dell explicitly agreed via some kind of contract to not touch the HD then their bad. Did they? It's more likely for some local tech-support company to be open to such a customer request.
If Dell explicitly agreed via some kind of contract to not touch the HD then their bad. Did they? It's more likely for some local tech-support company to be open to such a customer request.
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Basically none, you agreed to this as part of the repair process, like what sansavarous said. And in general, the person that repaired your machine almost definitely never saw your note as it went through a receiving department first before it hit a testing line, in receiving even if they read the note, at best they might add a comment to the case. Most of the time in repair shops like this there is a standard process and reimaging the Hard Drive is likely automatic as it is also used as a part of the final inspection test.
When I send a machine for repair I have an old drive I stuff in it that has nothing on it except Windows. This way regardless of what they do my data never leaves my side and I won't lose anything. I'd suggest taking that approach if you ever have to do this again, because no "extra" instructions you give them will likely ever be followed. Honestly, you can't really blame them as they need a standard process that supports high volume, and custom instructions on every order would not make that reasonable.
When I send a machine for repair I have an old drive I stuff in it that has nothing on it except Windows. This way regardless of what they do my data never leaves my side and I won't lose anything. I'd suggest taking that approach if you ever have to do this again, because no "extra" instructions you give them will likely ever be followed. Honestly, you can't really blame them as they need a standard process that supports high volume, and custom instructions on every order would not make that reasonable.
This was one of the points drilled into our head the last time I did a new job orientation (15 years ago): Your computer is warranted by Dell, they will usually send parts directly to you, sometimes they will send a tech out and it's your responsibility to watch him, if you have to send it to the depot remove the disk.
I am surprised that the OP did depot service for keyboard and trackpad. I replaced my own keyboard twice and trackpad once (trackpad was actually part of the housing.) Maybe my enterprise had a special agreement with Dell to let us do this?
I am surprised that the OP did depot service for keyboard and trackpad. I replaced my own keyboard twice and trackpad once (trackpad was actually part of the housing.) Maybe my enterprise had a special agreement with Dell to let us do this?
> Basically none, you agreed to this as part of the repair process, like what sansavarous said.
No he didn't. This is akin to taking your car for an oil change, and finding that the seats were replaced as well. He didn't even come close to agreeing to this.
Dell modified his machine, and deleted his data, when there was no reason to do so (why would you need to wipe a disk to replace a keyboard)?
IMHO, depending on the damage, he should go after Dell, and ask to get back some compensation for the damage that was done mostly due to, well, negligence?
No he didn't. This is akin to taking your car for an oil change, and finding that the seats were replaced as well. He didn't even come close to agreeing to this.
Dell modified his machine, and deleted his data, when there was no reason to do so (why would you need to wipe a disk to replace a keyboard)?
IMHO, depending on the damage, he should go after Dell, and ask to get back some compensation for the damage that was done mostly due to, well, negligence?
I encourage you to read the warranty terms that came with your computer. Particularly this section:
"Software/Data Backup. It is solely Customer’s responsibility to complete a backup of all existing data, software, and programs on affected Products before receiving services (including telephone support) or shipping Product(s) back to Dell. In addition, Customer is responsible for removing any confidential, proprietary, or personal information and any removable media such as SIM cards, CDs, or PC Cards. DELL WILL HAVE NO LIABILITY FOR LOSS OF OR RECOVERY OF DATA, PROGRAMS, OR LOSS OF USE OF PRODUCT(S). You understand and agree that under no circumstances will Dell be responsible for any loss of software, programs, or data -even if technicians have attempted to assist you with your backup, recovery or similar services. Any such assistance is beyond the scope of any Dell warranty and this Service Agreement."
"Software/Data Backup. It is solely Customer’s responsibility to complete a backup of all existing data, software, and programs on affected Products before receiving services (including telephone support) or shipping Product(s) back to Dell. In addition, Customer is responsible for removing any confidential, proprietary, or personal information and any removable media such as SIM cards, CDs, or PC Cards. DELL WILL HAVE NO LIABILITY FOR LOSS OF OR RECOVERY OF DATA, PROGRAMS, OR LOSS OF USE OF PRODUCT(S). You understand and agree that under no circumstances will Dell be responsible for any loss of software, programs, or data -even if technicians have attempted to assist you with your backup, recovery or similar services. Any such assistance is beyond the scope of any Dell warranty and this Service Agreement."
I believe Dell did agree to that. I am talking to the tech group and their case notes say they were not to reimage the hard drive or reinstall the OS.
And I did back up the data. I just never imagined they would go so far out of their way to do what I asked them not to do. And they agreed not to do.
And I did back up the data. I just never imagined they would go so far out of their way to do what I asked them not to do. And they agreed not to do.
How legal are these terms? Dell is forced, by law, to offer certain warranties when a user pays for a product.
Is adding extra conditions like "you may lose data if you use your warranty" legal in the US (assuming op is from USA)?
Is adding extra conditions like "you may lose data if you use your warranty" legal in the US (assuming op is from USA)?
This is a standard term in virtually every computer warranty. What you're saying is that manufacturers, when repairing their products, should NOT restore them to original working condition, but instead preserve arbitrary modifications customers have made. That sounds untenable, and isn't something required by the implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a purpose you are presumptively referring to.
> instead preserve arbitrary modifications customers have made
Which, having worked in a PC repair shop in a past life, makes it difficult to both diagnose the initial issue and to test the fix. How do I confirm it's a hardware and not a software issue without knowing that the base platform state is in working condition?
Which, having worked in a PC repair shop in a past life, makes it difficult to both diagnose the initial issue and to test the fix. How do I confirm it's a hardware and not a software issue without knowing that the base platform state is in working condition?
Dell machines nowadays have very comprehensive diagnostic utilities baked into the firmware/BIOS, and have had such diagnostic utilities baked in for almost a decade. Booting into any operating system at all, let alone overwriting the user's, is very rarely necessary, and even if the former is necessary, that's what a bootable USB stick or CD-ROM is for.
That said, I agree that there isn't really an expectation of data preservation, which is why removing one's hard drive prior to sending a machine on for servicing is a best practice in most circumstances (the exception being when the hard drive is the faulting module).
That said, I agree that there isn't really an expectation of data preservation, which is why removing one's hard drive prior to sending a machine on for servicing is a best practice in most circumstances (the exception being when the hard drive is the faulting module).
On my Dell's, the diagnostics have been a partition on the hard drive, which while in hardware, should not be considered 'baked in' in any important sense. If a user has formatted over that partition when installing another OS, then those diagnostics cease to be available [which was how I came by my intimate knowledge]. Fortunately, the box has never required service beyond BIOS upgrades which can be user installed.
That's interesting, to say the least. I thought they stopped doing that quite a while ago now that UEFI is becoming the norm?
I used to manage a wide deployment of Dell workstations across multiple locations in a small hospital district. We had a Windows 7 image that we'd deploy (nuking all the partitions in the process, including any Dell recovery partitions), yet diagnostics would continue to be available for those times when we encountered hardware issues and needed to send machines back to Dell (and I'm pretty confident that we didn't preserve any diagnostic partition(s) during the imaging process).
I suppose older machines probably required a diagnostic partition, in which case I stand corrected.
I used to manage a wide deployment of Dell workstations across multiple locations in a small hospital district. We had a Windows 7 image that we'd deploy (nuking all the partitions in the process, including any Dell recovery partitions), yet diagnostics would continue to be available for those times when we encountered hardware issues and needed to send machines back to Dell (and I'm pretty confident that we didn't preserve any diagnostic partition(s) during the imaging process).
I suppose older machines probably required a diagnostic partition, in which case I stand corrected.
You can boot of an external drive, and test it there.
Having worked in internal support at several places, this is the standard practice, since deleting our user's data was the worst that could happen.
Having worked in internal support at several places, this is the standard practice, since deleting our user's data was the worst that could happen.
Pretty much nothing. If you have some data you need to recover you'll have to find a data recovery company.
Whenever I send stuff in I always assume I will never get the data back. I generally do a backup and wipe.
Whenever I send stuff in I always assume I will never get the data back. I generally do a backup and wipe.
I take it you've already demanded the full refund and sent an invoice for your time?
In the future, I recommend removing the hard drive before sending them on to Dell (unless the hard drive is the problem). Dell shouldn't care about the lack of a hard drive; if it does, pop in a temporary drive (as davismwfl mentioned).
Alternately, you can ask Dell to just send you the parts, in which case they'll usually be fine with you performing the swap yourself and sending back the faulty parts. This avoids the issue entirely, at the expense of leaving you with the work of replacing the parts in question (though a keyboard/trackpad replacement isn't that hard on most Dells).
I used to work with Dell machines routinely in a hospital IT department. Dell never gave us grief for removing hard drives prior to sending machines out for servicing (per our internal HIPAA-compliance policy). YMMV for consumer support, but I don't expect that to be significantly different in their case.
In the future, I recommend removing the hard drive before sending them on to Dell (unless the hard drive is the problem). Dell shouldn't care about the lack of a hard drive; if it does, pop in a temporary drive (as davismwfl mentioned).
Alternately, you can ask Dell to just send you the parts, in which case they'll usually be fine with you performing the swap yourself and sending back the faulty parts. This avoids the issue entirely, at the expense of leaving you with the work of replacing the parts in question (though a keyboard/trackpad replacement isn't that hard on most Dells).
I used to work with Dell machines routinely in a hospital IT department. Dell never gave us grief for removing hard drives prior to sending machines out for servicing (per our internal HIPAA-compliance policy). YMMV for consumer support, but I don't expect that to be significantly different in their case.
Not a solution for your case, but this is why I like Lenovo's 'keep your drive' warranty.
I wrote on the repair description, "Do not under any circumstances clear the hard drive or reinstall Windows" and "Beyond replacing the keyboard and touchpad, do not do anything to this computer" and "If you delete my hard drive or clear the password, I will demand a full refund and bill you for my time to reinstall the OS and data." And yet, I have my laptop back today with Windows 8.1 installed.
This is so infuriating I cannot tell you. What remedies are there for this when I was so crystal clear in writing and on the phone that I did not want this outcome?