CDC declined to test new coronavirus patient for days, California hospital says(thehill.com)
thehill.com
CDC declined to test new coronavirus patient for days, California hospital says
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/484903-cdc-declined-to-test-new-coronavirus-patient-for-days-california-hospital
408 comments
As a South Korean citizen it is jarring that other countries including the US and Japan isn't really trying to test people. Japan has people that died due to COVID-19 and they don't know how it was spread - the US didn't even test everyone that came from Diamond Princess! Why aren't those countries tracking down how the viruses are being spread?
I don't like conspiracy theories, but seriously it looks like they are trying to lessen the numbers on the paper instead of really trying to find the patients. Compare the numbers that the countries are testing[0], US is less than a thousand and Japan is about 1300.
Edit: Just for people who are curious in how things are working in South Korea, we test everyone who has: pneumonia symptoms, or has been in the same place with already discovered patients for free - and anyone who is concerned can test with about $100 - which is refunded if one turns out to be positive. We track every COVID-19 patient's routes and test everyone who was in the same place; which means that the government (mostly) knows exactly how the virus is being spread. Based on data that was announced 10 hours ago[1] (we announce data and roadmap twice every day), we have tested 66,652 people with 1,766 cases found, and currently 25,568 tests are on-going. 1,727 people are being quarantined, and 26 people have fully recovered from COVID-19.
Second Edit: Okay, I'm not really skilled in English; if this felt like bragging how South Korea is well handling this situation, that is not my intent - we have a lot of complaints of how the government should handle this. My intent was asking why the US/Japan is not doing at least this much, considering that both countries are much powerful & richer than Korea. Both countries are basically the Korea's wannabe-countries; and everybody here is pretty shocked (literally - there is a lot of news/SNS posts/internet memes on how Japan/US is handling the situation) that they aren't doing well.
[0] https://i.imgur.com/BAROczt.jpg
[1] http://ncov.mohw.go.kr/tcmBoardView.do?brdId=&brdGubun=&data... (Korean, sorry :-()
I don't like conspiracy theories, but seriously it looks like they are trying to lessen the numbers on the paper instead of really trying to find the patients. Compare the numbers that the countries are testing[0], US is less than a thousand and Japan is about 1300.
Edit: Just for people who are curious in how things are working in South Korea, we test everyone who has: pneumonia symptoms, or has been in the same place with already discovered patients for free - and anyone who is concerned can test with about $100 - which is refunded if one turns out to be positive. We track every COVID-19 patient's routes and test everyone who was in the same place; which means that the government (mostly) knows exactly how the virus is being spread. Based on data that was announced 10 hours ago[1] (we announce data and roadmap twice every day), we have tested 66,652 people with 1,766 cases found, and currently 25,568 tests are on-going. 1,727 people are being quarantined, and 26 people have fully recovered from COVID-19.
Second Edit: Okay, I'm not really skilled in English; if this felt like bragging how South Korea is well handling this situation, that is not my intent - we have a lot of complaints of how the government should handle this. My intent was asking why the US/Japan is not doing at least this much, considering that both countries are much powerful & richer than Korea. Both countries are basically the Korea's wannabe-countries; and everybody here is pretty shocked (literally - there is a lot of news/SNS posts/internet memes on how Japan/US is handling the situation) that they aren't doing well.
[0] https://i.imgur.com/BAROczt.jpg
[1] http://ncov.mohw.go.kr/tcmBoardView.do?brdId=&brdGubun=&data... (Korean, sorry :-()
I can only imagine that there is a large amount of requests for COVID-19 tests from hospitals across the country right now. Without some kind of guidelines, the request for tests would overwhelm the current capacity and the most likely subjects would not be identified as soon. There has to be priorities.
I expect the CDC will update their testing criteria when it makes sense.
I expect the CDC will update their testing criteria when it makes sense.
South Korea tested more people for COVID-19 in one day than all the testing the CDC has done to date.
Flying into LAX from Asia last week, I had expected to spend a few hours at the airport before officially entering, but alas, it was worryingly expedient only being asked “did I travel to China in the last weeks?”
> “Since the patient did not fit the existing CDC criteria for COVID-19, a test was not immediately administered,” the statement added. “UC Davis Health does not control the testing process.”
That seems fair enough to me - testing is currently limited, and likely under high load.
The concern, rather, is this:
> Experts raised concern that the CDC's narrow testing criteria could mean that there are more cases circulating among the general public that have not been identified.
The narrowed testing criteria hasn't managed to just exclude false positives (the intent) - it is now excluding positives that need to be caught.
That seems fair enough to me - testing is currently limited, and likely under high load.
The concern, rather, is this:
> Experts raised concern that the CDC's narrow testing criteria could mean that there are more cases circulating among the general public that have not been identified.
The narrowed testing criteria hasn't managed to just exclude false positives (the intent) - it is now excluding positives that need to be caught.
Perhaps a basic question, but what is actually required to test for COVID-19? I've seen mentions of "testing kits", but what's actually in them? For comparison, US medical facilities regularly test for any number of viruses and can essentially turn them around indefinitely. Is this because they know they'll continue to need to test for them, so they are well-stocked in the test kits?
Folks, I think it's time for as many bay area workers as possible to WFH. Let's get ahead of this.
Everyone involved in the decision not to test the person should be removed from their position. End of story.
In a time of crisis we need the best people in control of important decisions not bureaucrats.
In a time of crisis we need the best people in control of important decisions not bureaucrats.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) initially declined to test a California patient for coronavirus because of narrow testing criteria, delaying the identification of a new possibly pivotal case, according to officials at the hospital treating the patient.
Seems pretty reasonable to me.
There are limited resources for doing the Corona virus test. If the CDC tested everyone who got a fever, they'd have a massive backlog.
The risk is reasonable if any suspected case is quarantined.
Seems pretty reasonable to me.
There are limited resources for doing the Corona virus test. If the CDC tested everyone who got a fever, they'd have a massive backlog.
The risk is reasonable if any suspected case is quarantined.
No offense, but I remember couple weeks ago, people in here are keep mention that China gov lying about the truth/numbers etc.
By saying that, I am not argue fro the China gov. The Wuhan gov actually tried to hide something in the very early days, until the central gov noticed this.
I just feel this's interesting.. --- Disclaimer: I am Chinese work in US. I don't agree everything China is doing, but also don't like people blindly hate it.
I just feel this's interesting.. --- Disclaimer: I am Chinese work in US. I don't agree everything China is doing, but also don't like people blindly hate it.
It has been mentioned in a number of threads that there are likely a significant number of underreported cases, e.g. John Hopkins study. However, if cases are underreported and it is implied that these are more mild cases, would that mean that these more mild cases are less likely to infect others? I ask this because if there's a hidden but significant fraction of cases, it seems to be beyond the scope of nearly every quarantine (i.e. asymptomatic people going about their day) and if the transmission rate is equal I would think we would see a lot of uncontrolled spreading. Perhaps Italy and South Korea are an example of this, although I would've imagined far more Western countries with deep distributed infections if are so many high transmission, light or asymptomatic carriers around.
Concurrent to this, I am surprised the original dozen set of infections in the US seemed to have not infected nearly anyone else, assuming close contacts were appropriately monitored.
Concurrent to this, I am surprised the original dozen set of infections in the US seemed to have not infected nearly anyone else, assuming close contacts were appropriately monitored.
UC Davis is 20 minutes from the capital of California, the largest state in the union. Davis Medical, one of the top-5 hospitals in the state, has specialists in 150 fields, and is the referral center for 33 counties. It took them 3 days to get a Covid test.
How long 'til we get serious?
How long 'til we get serious?
And we thought only China was suppressing disease counts
I see from the downvotes that everyone thinks this is just a glib cheap shot. But the point is profound: no one wants to admit to this happening. Everyone in power[1], everywhere, still thinks this is "probably not going to be a big deal". So they deliberately avoid looking for those early cases, because they're sure they're just rare outliers. And that makes the eventual outbreak inevitable.
And it's happening here too.
[1] Also a lot of people not in power, like a distressingly large cohort of posters here who seem to be taking their cues from political sources.
I see from the downvotes that everyone thinks this is just a glib cheap shot. But the point is profound: no one wants to admit to this happening. Everyone in power[1], everywhere, still thinks this is "probably not going to be a big deal". So they deliberately avoid looking for those early cases, because they're sure they're just rare outliers. And that makes the eventual outbreak inevitable.
And it's happening here too.
[1] Also a lot of people not in power, like a distressingly large cohort of posters here who seem to be taking their cues from political sources.
Here's the appropriate level of threat response to the virus, as seen by other countries:
0-30 cases/day (covid is being imported in via travel)
- put temperature detection check points at airports for all passengers on international flights
- voluntary or enforced self-quarantine measures for those who have fever
- tighten or ban travel from certain areas of the world
30-100 cases/day (you've isolated individuals with covid in your population)
- put areas with confirmed COVID cases on high alert - hospitals in those areas should be required to check fever for COVID virus
- Follow up with patients who have COVID by tracking down and checking their recent social circles
100+ cases / day (containment, not prevention, becomes the main goal. There's groups who contracted the virus / the virus cannot be traced to an entry point)
- Put the entire region on high alert via policy - mandated work from home and limited social gatherings
- Suspend school and other high traffic institutions
- limit travel, request everyone to stay at home. Put up temperature checks / road blocks in major crowded areas.
- ask population to take extreme precautions with their health by washing hands and wearing masks. Wearing masks is an amazing marketing tool to get people to treat the pandemic seriously, even if it doesn't actually help limit the spread that much.
1000+ cases/day (treatment is the prioritization to limit deaths)
- build makeshift hospitals to anticipate the increase in load
- remove as much red tape as possible to allow immediate treatment of critical condition patients (approve funding, get the right tests, mobilize health professionals, allocate hazmat suits / quarantine spaces)
This implies that you are testing patients that have suspected corona symptoms and reporting them upwards.
The US should have been taking border protection more seriously, but it's probably already too late for that. COVID is likely to spread regardless of how much effort you put into border control now.
0-30 cases/day (covid is being imported in via travel)
- put temperature detection check points at airports for all passengers on international flights
- voluntary or enforced self-quarantine measures for those who have fever
- tighten or ban travel from certain areas of the world
30-100 cases/day (you've isolated individuals with covid in your population)
- put areas with confirmed COVID cases on high alert - hospitals in those areas should be required to check fever for COVID virus
- Follow up with patients who have COVID by tracking down and checking their recent social circles
100+ cases / day (containment, not prevention, becomes the main goal. There's groups who contracted the virus / the virus cannot be traced to an entry point)
- Put the entire region on high alert via policy - mandated work from home and limited social gatherings
- Suspend school and other high traffic institutions
- limit travel, request everyone to stay at home. Put up temperature checks / road blocks in major crowded areas.
- ask population to take extreme precautions with their health by washing hands and wearing masks. Wearing masks is an amazing marketing tool to get people to treat the pandemic seriously, even if it doesn't actually help limit the spread that much.
1000+ cases/day (treatment is the prioritization to limit deaths)
- build makeshift hospitals to anticipate the increase in load
- remove as much red tape as possible to allow immediate treatment of critical condition patients (approve funding, get the right tests, mobilize health professionals, allocate hazmat suits / quarantine spaces)
This implies that you are testing patients that have suspected corona symptoms and reporting them upwards.
The US should have been taking border protection more seriously, but it's probably already too late for that. COVID is likely to spread regardless of how much effort you put into border control now.
What the hell is wrong with the CDC right now ?
[s]It just seems to be ran like a startup or something. Jesus.[/s]
How can more people not be outraged by the govmnt lack of readiness?
[s]It just seems to be ran like a startup or something. Jesus.[/s]
How can more people not be outraged by the govmnt lack of readiness?
I'm wondering if confirming COVID-19 with a test now matters much from the perspective of a patient and doctor. At this point, with public-to-public transmission known to be occurring, if an MD assesses a symptomatic patient and suspects COVID-19, they'd likely isolate the patient immediately.
Does the treatment regimen differ much between severe flu and COVID-19?
Does the treatment regimen differ much between severe flu and COVID-19?
I’ve read that as a respiratory disease such as the flu it should die down in spring naturally. Is that true?
If any given country is declining to test for whatever reason, but the virus kills ~2% of those infected, wouldn't the mortality rate seem much higher than 2% in those countries?
(assuming testing uncovers cases post-homously and numbers are not suppressed outright)
(assuming testing uncovers cases post-homously and numbers are not suppressed outright)
I wonder sometimes about the future of the human species. I can't find an apparent reason for it other than cost and even that should not be an issue in this case. Ignorance is bliss and no one wants to cause panic?
the test result shows it is flu, why panic
I've heard there are budget cuts being done, they've completely gutted the staff of the CDC.
Morons in charge seems to be a leading factor.
Morons in charge seems to be a leading factor.
As european, don't count on Europe neither. Italians are already backing up in their statements as they clearly see they are the only fools that were willing to make any sacrifice to try to contain it.
Another instance of pathethic european leadership.
Another instance of pathethic european leadership.
The corona virus has to be tariffed before get into united state
Something something the blindness of a non-authoritarianism (Chinese version of The Atlantic).
We have had the sequence of the COVID-19 for over a month. Are you guys, on hackernews, are telling me there isn't a single startup - not one - that could develop a more effective test to fill this gap? The virus when it comes, will not discriminate between Republican and Democrat. But developing a better test could save lives.
They were too busy sending their thoughts and prayers to perform any scientific evidence based tests.
[0] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-in-us.html
[1] https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information...