I use an explanation using elections. Where cities, counties, states etc. (what applies in your $country) count and aggregate their values upwards until it's clear who has won on a national level. :)
As long as the Federal Reserve exists, I don't think this is possible. Given that it is just as PRIVATE as Federal Express, it is not actually the government that creates the Federal Reserve Notes, but an external entity. [1]
This 3rd party does get interest paid for that.
So the government wants an amount of X dollars to exist.
The FED ceates X but demands Y interest.
However, only amount X exists and X+Y does not.
To pay back Y,a new amount has to be created.. Over which interest Z should be paid, etc. etc.
In other words: it's impossible to pay back the national debt to the guys who have claimed the magic right to put ink on some cotton and call it a million dollars. Dollars which can no longer be exchanged for silver as was possible a few decades ago...
Now why do these banks keep loaning money? Well they already own the country since the default of 1933. The current collateral is every U.S Citizen and their future labor if someone has a birth certificate!
The only free people in that sense are those who have a Sovereign/Freeman of the Land status, living under Common Law instead of Maritime Admiralty Law.
Youtube: "Have you met your Strawman?" & "Choosing Freedom" for more of an introduction..
"No, today, in our crazy money system, the government has to borrow our money into existence and then pay interest on it. That's why they call it the National Debt. All our money is created out of debt. Politicians who focus on reducing the National Debt as an answer probably don't know what the National Debt really is. To reduce the National Debt would be to reduce our money -- and there's already too little of that."
"No, you have to go deeper. You have to get at the root of this problem or we're never going to fix this. The solution isn't new or radical. America used to do it. Politicians used to fight with big bankers over it. It's all in our history -- now sadly -- in the distant past.
"In other words you assume that those holes must be the evidence of a conspiracy. "
No, once again, I'll not allow you to corner me because of my examples with which I'm trying to explain that the events as they happened could be explained BY a conspiracy and they could JUST AS WELL be explained by it NOT being a conspiracy..
"But instead of being honest about it you simply hide behind vague insinuations."
I mentioned before that I don't claim to know what happened that day. Only that I have unanswered questions or things that are not explained sufficiently for /me/. If you're happy with your views on that day, good for you.
Is it now allowed to NOT have a position these days? Many people don't hold multiple theories/world views/models in their mind at the same time, keeping all of them open while gathering more information.
I can't help that most people directly follow either the mainstream/official approach OR the alternative approach.
Once again: the world is not black or white, 'not with us or against us', etc
"You have answered none of my arguments."
And apparently you just don't get that my points are examples.. not my opinions..
"Basically you think that most people are idiots being fooled by some clever evil leaders through the use of propaganda."
I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that propaganda nowadays would work just as well and insidiously as 60 years ago. And people don't have to be idiots for this to function, two words: human nature
And if you can't see how at least the whole situation was used to 'force through' all kinds of executive orders, laws and regulations and the creation of the Homeland security thing, I'm really sorry for you but then you've missed a few things that have changed in the world since that horrible day..
"Each and every of your posts illuminates that more than anything else."
I'm not a 'truther' and I'm not a 'mainstreamer'.
That day is still very open-ended because of it's complexity of events.
I don't have a position, deal with it. And most of all, don't try to push me into that 'elitist' corner stating that I'm calling people idiots, fools whatever.
I'm generating scenarios and examples and I'm being realistic with what we've seen in human history and human nature/psychology.
So just stop trying to label me and put me in one of those two convenient boxes you have in your mind: normal/mainstream or truther/kook.
"Only problem is that we don't live in 1948 or 1984 for that matter."
You forget one thing: human nature hasn't changed that much.
There are still plenty of modern examples of leaders that are blindly followed by people. E.g. cults, certain countries, etc.
Perhaps the risk of this happening in the West has gone down, but it's still there.
Do not underestimate the power of TV and the like.. and do not forget how fear is an effective method to sweep people into action. Perhaps not invading other countries.. but things like body scanners and privacy invasions are common place now.. why? fear + media outlets = powerful.
"Very few knew what it even meant and it was all documented and known by parts of the government. A government in war btw. A secret weapon that was not used against it's own people."
It's not brute forcing. You can place many people in their role and position, letting them do their job honestly without any need for them to have any clue at all about the greater scheme.
(This would probably apply more to the government scenario than to other scenarios, but for sake of the examples..)
Simple examples, more elaborate ones can easily be thought of with a bit more time:
Did the person giving the hijackers pilot training play a role that day? definitely!
Was this person to be blamed? in the know? no!
Doing his/her job in good faith and with honesty? yes!
What about those people scheduling an air force training that day, causing many planes and pilots that normally defend the NY airspace to be away from the area?
(assuming this was a 'purposeful move in the 'allowed to happen' scheme or something)
They were just following orders. Training pilots regularly is a good thing to do right? Who can predict that the lack of defensive capability that day would be such a bad/tragic timing? The people actually organizing the training? No! Would the pilots moving to a training need to be in the know? No! Can they be blamed? Not at all, but they might regret not being at their home base.
Just a couple of people in strategic places can move all the 'pawns' (not meant derogatory in any way!) to the correct place and time for the greater strategic (chess) plan to work / allowed to work / insert possible variations here.
These 'pawns' would often truly believe that they are doing their job to the best of their abilities and not be able to see any 'evil' in what they are doing.
Hope what I'm trying to convey is somewhat clear.
Once again, these examples are easier to make for the 'government scenario'.. which is not something that I fully support.
To be honest: I really don't know what really happened that day. I don't have a definitive answer that I want to 'push on to others'. I only know that the official story is something with too many holes and too many strange coincidences for me.
"Conspiracy theorists are assuming the conclusion before the evidence is in place. You know just like religious people can make anything seem like an act of god. Or believers in Nostradamus make everything seem like he was right. The list of alternatives stories one can make in retrospect is more or less limitless."
I completely agree with this.
"If you have already decided that the government are conspiring against their citizens then you will take any weird phenomena and use that as an argument for you case."
I also agree completely with this point. I also want to make it very clear that I have not decided that the government is conspiring against their citizens, nor is it my starting point.
It is however not something that can be ruled out from the start either, as I mentioned, history has proven that too.
"But you could might as well make another conclusion far less spectacular yet as horrific. For instance that the US government knew something was going to happen and they let it happen."
Agreed, there are so many shades of gray between the often official/'truthers' dichotomy that is almost always maintained and promoted.
Once again to be explicit: I'm interested for the correct shade of gray, because the official version doesn't do it for me, but most alternatives are complete non-sense too.
"This would be a far less outrageous claim to make even though it's really pretty much wrong."
At least the government messed up by ignoring too many signals in the months leading up to the day and by acting to slow on the day itself. Having a training with almost the exact same scenario on the same day doesn't help. This also applied to the attack in London.
"One would think that if there are people who leak videos of US pilots shooting down journalists, there would be people leaking a far greater story, requiring a far larger conspiracy involving thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people."
Not necessarily. Large groups of people can work on a common goal while still keeping it secret. See e.g. the Manhattan project with 100K people working on it.
"One would also think that if the government really was that great at covering up something a huge as 9/11 then they
Unpleasant to think about? Yes for the conspiracy theorists."
As I noted in another reply in this topic: conspiracy theory is also a word that's used to create false dichotomies.
The official version is also a conspiracy, the conspirators being those Arabic hijackers (of whom quite a few are still alive too btw).
So the real issue isn't: is it a conspiracy or not
It's: who are the conspirators and how can everything observed that day be explained.
I'll keep it short too because I agree that you can keep arguing things for the rest of your life.
- I just find it odd that Dr. Jones doesn't count as some 'internet randomer' for you while someone with an opposing theory with similar degrees does (Dr. Judy Wood).
- If you have to prove point X that was accompanied with weird occurrences X1 and X2 with theory Y. Theory Y is not complete until it can fully proof point X, /including/ its weird occurrences. Until that point, theory Y might be a good explanation, but never a complete one.
- Completely ignoring oddities and weirdness in an event where thousands of innocents died, that's what I call offensive. If things like surviving passports, hijackers that are still alive, engine blocks melting and cars rusting in no-time at blocks away behind other buildings and 100's of other strangeness and coincidents don't give you ANY gut feeling to look beyond the official story then I'm sorry it's not a University course.
- I agree that a whole lot of 'evidence' on alternative sites is false. But I'm not mentioning these sites so don't try to associate me with those. I mentioned a few things that /I/ find odd, nothing more, nothing less.
Two final points:
- I'm not saying that the (US) government did it, but if you have any historical knowledge, you know that governments have and will definitely sacrifice some of their citizens if the things they can gain with it are worth it.
Unpleasant to think about: hell yes!
A reality: very sadly yes!
- You probably have never looked into the more alternative physics and their horrific weaponization potential. Think the work of people like Tesla, the super-classified research done by the Soviets, the Nazi's, etc. Stuff you can find discussed by 'non-kooks' if you look for it.
If you come from this perspective of history and alternative weapons research, the signatures of such technology could fit many of the things seen like a glove..
You can say what you want, but I find seeing the type of massive steel beams used in those building turning to dust and blowing away in the wind in just seconds very, very odd. Were does the energy come from? Especially because the steel to which this is happening is 'standing alone', seemingly untouched, suddenly going 'poof'..!?!
Not saying that I agree with the described causes on that web page.. but I am quite certain it isn't caused by a plane crash an hour or so earlier.
AFAIK it still isn't there.. is this (still?!?) a serious negative factor when considering a SSD in a MBP?!?
Certainly considering inserting a SSD. Once I played with an MBA in a shop, I could sooo feel the difference in speed compared to my MBP which has a much faster CPU.
- I also learned that I was frequently hyperventilating in my sleep. My girlfriend noticed it a few times when she couldn't sleep. This very well explained why I woke up more tired than how I went to bed, frequently unable to find the energy to e.g.turn my pillow around.
- I also read the paraphrased quote somewhere that:
"Breathing 20-25 times/min. is what you do when you're cycling with 15-25KM/h. No body in the world is strong enough to do that 24/7, day after day, month after month"
