maximusprime

vor 15 Jahrendiscuss

I would personally add

2) Websites that are known for mallware, phishing, or otherwise going to mess you up.

As I said I don't know if SOPA is good/bad, but my point was that "I support an Open Internet" is a bit of a cop out.

maximusprime

vor 15 Jahrendiscuss

So if a company starts infringing trademarks, polluting search engines en masse, tricking people into buying their rubbish, phishing their details, getting credit card details etc, you'd be fine with that?

What about people who DDoS attack you? Is that fine? No need to have any recourse there?

How about those that hack DNS to dupe people into visiting their site etc

Those are all "Open Internet", but they're also not very nice.

I don't think it's as clear cut as some make it.

I don't know if SOPA gets it right or wrong, or if the current laws are sufficient, but I'm glad we have some of those laws in place to make the internet a slightly nicer place.

maximusprime

vor 15 Jahrendiscuss

You've missed the point. This is an internet hate mob formation. The facts aren't important.

maximusprime

vor 15 Jahrendiscuss

I just think the sky isn't falling that's all. I think the endless posting of articles, protesting, etc etc is a big waste of man hours.

maximusprime

vor 15 Jahrendiscuss

What does "Open Internet" mean though?

You can't reasonably support free speech in all instances, just like you can't reasonably support an "open internet" in all instances. There have to be some exceptions.

It's the listing of those exceptions and how you deal with them that's the tricky bit. So saying "I support an open internet" is just ignoring the issue.

maximusprime

vor 15 Jahrendiscuss

Please can we at least try to ensure HN doesn't go the way of Reddit?

I'm against SOPA as much as the next guy, but it's a moot issue. Browsers will just release new versions that use alternate DNS systems or get past any 'blocks'.

There's nothing uglier than an internet hate/protest mob.

maximusprime

vor 15 Jahrendiscuss

A single currency across countries with such different economies, histories, cultures and languages would still result in the same outcome IMHO.

maximusprime

vor 15 Jahrendiscuss

Their mistake was to join the Euro.

maximusprime

vor 15 Jahrendiscuss

"the idea of a single currency" caused it. A truly terrible idea.

Everything that happened was inevitable.

maximusprime

vor 15 Jahrendiscuss

You're conveniently ignoring the fact that the + operator also means string concatenation.

Javascript thinks to itself 'hello' string concatenated with a 1 value.

maximusprime

vor 15 Jahrendiscuss

It wasn't. At least in the UK in the 80s, you could go out to any town center, walk into a shop, and buy a "home" computer. They were everywhere.

maximusprime

vor 15 Jahrendiscuss

"hello" - 1 doesn't return NaN out of some sense of exception to trying to subtract from a string.

It returns it because parseFloat("hello") = NaN, and NaN - 1 = NaN.

maximusprime

vor 15 Jahrendiscuss

Well, I grew up in a day when it was even easier.

  * Buy home computer (ZX81)
  * Turn on
  * 10 Print "Hello world"
  * run

I don't think the instant gratification and ease of use did me any harm.

maximusprime

vor 15 Jahrendiscuss

That would be ridiculous because then what would 'hello' + 1 equal? Everyone would expect it to equal 'hello1'.

maximusprime

vor 15 Jahrendiscuss

OK here's plain english simple explain...

Left hand side is a string, and "+" is string concatenation as well as addition. So '5' + 3 = '53' (String concatenation). Just as "Hello" + 1 would equal "Hello1". The right hand side is converted to a string.

Left hand side is a string, but "-" is subtraction for numbers. JS converts the '5' to a number, then subtracts. So '5' - 3 = 2 (Numerical subtraction).

That's the explanation, and it's not terribly hard to get past.

maximusprime

vor 15 Jahrendiscuss

Everyone already has a browser, which includes a profiler, debugger, REPL etc.

Not everyone has a c compiler or JDK, or wants the hassle of having to set them up just to start learning.

maximusprime

vor 15 Jahrendiscuss

See my comment below. It's not about being trapped in any mindset. It's about thinking logically.

Either '5' - 3 results in an error of some kind, or it evaluates to 2. There is no other logical outcome. Javascript chooses to do the latter.

I also disagree that starting language matters. It's like saying you need to have a steinway grand to learn the piano properly.

Learning is about learning what not to do just as much, if not more, than what to do.

Also if you learn to swim through syrup, imagine how fast you'll be when you try swimming through water...

maximusprime

vor 15 Jahrendiscuss

No it's not.

Logically, the only other thing that could happen is for an "error" or "exception" be thrown when you do

  '5' - 3

There's really only 2 choices. Either convert the '5' to a number and subtract, or throw a hissy fit because it's a string.

That's not perverse. It's very logical.

maximusprime

vor 15 Jahrendiscuss

Disagree... for example from the link:

  In JavaScript:

  '5' + 3 gives '53'
  Whereas

  '5' - 3 gives 2

That's just logical and obvious, since "+" is both numerical addition, and string concatenation, but "-" is only numerical subtraction, and the '5' starts out as a string.

Every language has 'gotchas'. Doesn't really matter which you pick to learn first at all. The more important thing is that you don't give up. possibly there are languages that just make people want to give up, but I'd say perhaps they're not motivated enough to learn if that's the case.

I started out on BASIC, and after a while I decided it was a piece of shit language and learnt assembly. But it taught me programming which is what I wanted to learn. I'm really glad I learnt BASIC first... essentially I learnt to swim really fast through syrup, and then switched to swimming in water.

The good thing about javascript as a first language is that people can be programming in it immediately, in their browser. They have a built in REPL to help them, as well as a debugger, profiler, etc. They have numerous docs to look at, and if they go to any website they can check the source to see how it works. That's a big win.

maximusprime

vor 15 Jahrendiscuss

What's the point? What's the difference between a stream of messages, and a stream of bytes? Nothing.

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