My biggest complaint about HN is the users with enough karma to down-vote that do so just because they disagree with you.
I've had legit discussions here about real tech topics (for example web apps vs standard EXE apps), and the guy who continually disagreed with me clearly down-voted every comment I made, and replied with out-dated counterarguments. I wound up losing almost all my karma from one discussion, all while remaining civil.
It's very discouraging to be new here, and try to openly express an opinion. It should take more than one to down-vote a comment successfully.
Security e.g. users shouldn't trust a client based HTML5 with any serious data collection.
- I'm not sure why you say that. I do online banking all the time. It is possible to code something secure and tight, but I'll admit it's not easy. I think security will always be an issue, even with native apps.
Local Data - Storage is limited & it can be manipulated
- True, storage needs to be unlimited. As for manipulating it, this is also true of native apps. Without jailbreaking, I can manipulate a save file for almost any iPhone game. The security issue (again) depends on the developer, and how they protect the data.
Syncing offline apps - Determining which is the latest version etc
- Yup, that's a challenge too. But also a challenge native apps face. When I make a note on an offline iPhone in the notes app, and then edit the same note on my Mac, it creates a duplicate when the iPhone is back online. It should probably be up to the developer how to handle this, whether the app is native or HTML5.
If the browser vendors won't implement something, it won't get implemented. This has also lead to
- Yes, this I think is one of the biggest challenges. People buy a computer, it comes with a browser default, and they never change or update it. It's hard enough to get the W3C to add new features, let alone browsers to implement them, and even harder still to get users to update their browsers.
Format Incompatibilities e.g. try audio/video tags across the major browsers
True, which is another problem web apps face - waiting for the W3C to adopt something new. Native apps run on OSes that change several times a year, introducing new features. New HTML5 features seem to take two years - and worse still, every user must update their browser to get them.
security causes a lot of limits for users and developers
- Security will probably always be an issue, even with native apps. Anything specific you think could be changed to make web apps safer?
unhealthy competition between browser vendors, example: WebGL@InternetExplorer
- Agreed. Especially when one browser stays from what's supposed to be "standard", yet rarely is.
its limited to 3 languages: HTML, CSS, JS (and its derivatives)
- Agreed. Google's working on a compiled web language, but it will only work in chrome. They're attempting to make it a standard, but I'm not sure if any other browsers would put the effort into supporting it. And a whole new system like this would take years to implement. But still possible....
I'm not too familiar with Facebook's APIs, but could someone just go ahead and make a live version of Facebook like this? I know there are 3rd party iPad apps, what about a web version? (Not that I'd use this one - looks too crazy - but someone could come up with a different look I prefer.)
My Mom has one like that, and frankly I'm a little jealous. Her usage seems to be sitting as the default, then after a few hours, raises it to stand for a few hours. Alternating between seems more natural (and no stool required). Do you intend to alternate, or just stand all the time?
I think this is an iPod limitation implemented by Apple. I have the iPhone 5, loaded a large non-mobile site, and did the same thing. Upon lifting my finger, the rest of the page loads instantly.
In other words, the number one selling laptop today can't run any desktop applications - just web apps. I'm a developer, and I simply can't ignore this.
It's time to focus our efforts on fixing the obstacles web apps face, instead of doubling-down on desktop/native apps because they're easier to make, or run slightly faster.
Well at least I knocked you down from saying we'll never see FPS in the browser to okay-maybe-but-not-all-that-soon. Perhaps I can take you one step further, and inform you that a browser-based FPS on Facebook has over a million active players. https://www.facebook.com/appcenter/uberstrike?fb_source=sear...
I saw your previous comment earlier, and even gave it an up-vote. I'm new to Hacker News, but perhaps some day I'll have the right to down-vote; and when I do, I won't use it simply because I disagree with someone.
The FPS demo is just that: a demo. It's not made by a game company. It's not made by iD. It's a demo made to run on as many desktops as possible, unlike anything by iD, which pushes graphics to the limit. Graphics are your issue with this demo? A game company can make an HTML5 FPS with amazing graphics. There is no reason why they can't.
To clarify: the top 10 successful new tech businesses. And not necessarily financially, but that have the most impact. Also, this is a discussion about software. Sure, IBM has made a ton of money compared to Facebook. They have long-term contracts with governments and businesses worldwide; making money for IBM means waking up tomorrow. But they're boring. They're the successful company that makes all the screws; vital to the world, hugely profitable, but boring. I'm talking about new tech software companies you've actually heard of, and use their service every single day. When anyone talks about new startups, they inevitably mean a web-based company.
Okay, so Facebook launches as a downloadable EXE? What about Amazon, or Twitter? Everyone has to install it to use it. There has to be a Mac version, and a Linux version. Then the iOS and Android versions. Everything is native apps. This is a terrible ideal world you live in.
(It's not made by a game development team, but tech nerds at Mozilla, showcasing what new HTML5 tech can do. A real game company could go nuts with this.)
Also... Desktop apps have died. Apart from high performance apps, the top 10 successful tech businesses in the last 10 years have been web apps. Imagine Facebook launching as a desktop app. You buy a CD at Target, and install it, connect, and type in the app to communicate. It's a laughable idea.
It's lazy to give up and devote all your energies on yet another company's proprietary platform. Instead of constantly writing articles like this, how about we focus on the obstacles web apps face, and fix them.
Sure, if both a web app and native app are programmed optimally, the native app will run slightly faster. But a program written in machine code will always be faster still. There will come a point when the speed disadvantage is outweighed by all the benefits of web apps - and that time is near.
The biggest issues with web apps are:
- Development. Creating web apps requires writing code in at least 3 different languages, including server code, client code, and markup code. Try making an iOS paint app that saves your drawing to the cloud. Then try doing it as a web app. If you think this is easy, believe me, Objective C is a drrreeeam.
- Discovery. The App Store/Google Play are the best ways to discover new apps. There exists no such popular and lively platform for web app discovery, review, and sales.
- Browser and OS Dependency. Mobile browsers don't all allow access to the camera, easy installation to the home screen, and all the access to APIs a full-featured app should have.
So let us be constructive from now on, and focus on fixing these issues, instead of giving up and locking ourselves into reliance on yet another company (Flash, iOS, Android, etc).
Time Machine works great, and is a free part of OS X. You can use any external drive, but I use an extra Windows PC on my network which I hacked to act like a "Time Capsule." (If you're interested I can help you do this.)
(Time Machine backs up hourly, daily, monthly, etc)
I've had legit discussions here about real tech topics (for example web apps vs standard EXE apps), and the guy who continually disagreed with me clearly down-voted every comment I made, and replied with out-dated counterarguments. I wound up losing almost all my karma from one discussion, all while remaining civil.
It's very discouraging to be new here, and try to openly express an opinion. It should take more than one to down-vote a comment successfully.