Virtual reality porn and the future of loneliness(techcrunch.com)
techcrunch.com
Virtual reality porn and the future of loneliness
http://techcrunch.com/2015/07/11/virtual-reality-porn-and-the-future-of-loneliness/
9 comments
I don't know. It's like we're running a giant experiment on everybody, using powerful digital technologies , without even a safe process for estimating and controlling the risks and optimizing for positives.
And we do this without even achieving a scientific consensus on regular pornography and it's impact - without even understanding the results of the previous technology, if any. Maybe we should understand that before?
And we do this without even achieving a scientific consensus on regular pornography and it's impact - without even understanding the results of the previous technology, if any. Maybe we should understand that before?
Life itself is a giant experiment for which no-one really knows the answer to.
I am pretty much for being open and accepting of our own humanity (desires, flaws, quirks), without tabooing the fuck out of everything and trying to control what other individuals think and do with themselves. Education, information, critical thinking and a sharp change of culture into acceptance is what I think we need, not a "safe process".
I am pretty much for being open and accepting of our own humanity (desires, flaws, quirks), without tabooing the fuck out of everything and trying to control what other individuals think and do with themselves. Education, information, critical thinking and a sharp change of culture into acceptance is what I think we need, not a "safe process".
>> Education, information, critical thinking and a sharp change of culture into acceptance is what I think we need,
Just out of curiosity , would you apply similar rules to hard drugs ? Are the any limits to your approach , places where a slower process that tries to minimize risks, should be applied ?
Just out of curiosity , would you apply similar rules to hard drugs ? Are the any limits to your approach , places where a slower process that tries to minimize risks, should be applied ?
I'd apply the same logic to hard drugs, with emphasis in treatment, not criminalization, if you develop addiction or other problem. I think a big chink of the drug problem is the alienation it creates, in part due to being illegal and a taboo. If it's just something you can do, it probably loses half the appeal, and information about its risks and intricacies are probably more generally available.
I emphasize critical thinking, so yeah I think there are limits to my approach, especially when it concerns other people more directly (e.g. hurting others is not ok).
Process is generally warranted as well when a large group of people have to interact directly and the consequences are more fatal, such as traffic. In fact, I am pretty much for there being processes, not necessarily for minimizing risks, but to reduce conflict in a functioning society. What I don't like, I guess, is micro-managing daily behavior of people without a very good reason.
EDIT: I also think process should be revised constantly for an evolving society, again, with an emphasis in acceptance and critical thinking, not just accepting the status quo. The last thing we need is 18th century law causing problems today.
I emphasize critical thinking, so yeah I think there are limits to my approach, especially when it concerns other people more directly (e.g. hurting others is not ok).
Process is generally warranted as well when a large group of people have to interact directly and the consequences are more fatal, such as traffic. In fact, I am pretty much for there being processes, not necessarily for minimizing risks, but to reduce conflict in a functioning society. What I don't like, I guess, is micro-managing daily behavior of people without a very good reason.
EDIT: I also think process should be revised constantly for an evolving society, again, with an emphasis in acceptance and critical thinking, not just accepting the status quo. The last thing we need is 18th century law causing problems today.
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There are lots of "we" in your sentences. Who is this "we" and when was the last time when you noticed scientific consensus on any highly subjective topics like sexuality ?
Not knowing the consequences of something is an insufficient reason not to do it. You're invoking a form of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance (Namely, that it hasn't been proven safe, so should be presumed unsafe.)
there's a difference between doing something , to doing something on a huge scale , no ?
Loneliness is like a gaping wound, anything you try to fill it with just seems to make it hurt more.
Masturbation is fine, but that longing for real human connection, that is something that I don't think is replaceable by any of these forms. Even conversations spread across strangers, it just feels like trying to fit together a jigsaw puzzle with the wrong pieces.
Masturbation is fine, but that longing for real human connection, that is something that I don't think is replaceable by any of these forms. Even conversations spread across strangers, it just feels like trying to fit together a jigsaw puzzle with the wrong pieces.
You're forgetting the (admittedly, somewhat uncountable) number of people who are substituting porn and masturbation for sexual relationships with real, live human beings.
Yes, people in relationships, with sex lives watch porn. Good for them. They aren't the ones we should be concerned about; they aren't the ones whose behavior is (or risks becoming) maladptive.
I think you're drawing a false identity here — between people who use porn to supplement their sex lives, and people for whom porn is their sex life — and treating the valuable and well-warranted concern for the latter as criticism of the whole.
Yes, people in relationships, with sex lives watch porn. Good for them. They aren't the ones we should be concerned about; they aren't the ones whose behavior is (or risks becoming) maladptive.
I think you're drawing a false identity here — between people who use porn to supplement their sex lives, and people for whom porn is their sex life — and treating the valuable and well-warranted concern for the latter as criticism of the whole.
As someone else asked above, who is "we?" And why is it any business of "ours" whether someone decides that relationships (in the romantic/sexual sense) with other people are something he/she wants?
My language was admittedly a bit sloppy, but I was talking specifically about people who are turning to porn to fill the need/want in their sexual life for a partner.
If that's what someone genuinely wants, and it's what makes them happy [1], then good for them.
[1] As opposed simply to being a means of getting off while avoiding the risk and vulnerability that human intimacy tends to require.
Even then, if that's the choice they're making, it's their life, I guess. I've just known a few people who did make that choice, and invariably, they felt wretched about it.
If that's what someone genuinely wants, and it's what makes them happy [1], then good for them.
[1] As opposed simply to being a means of getting off while avoiding the risk and vulnerability that human intimacy tends to require.
Even then, if that's the choice they're making, it's their life, I guess. I've just known a few people who did make that choice, and invariably, they felt wretched about it.
> Even then, if that's the choice they're making, it's their life, I guess. I've just known a few people who did make that choice, and invariably, they felt wretched about it. <
Because of the act itself, or the social stigma put upon the act?
Because of the act itself, or the social stigma put upon the act?
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Well, demographics and reproduction rates have significant effect on economics for starters.
http://www.clearonmoney.com/dw/doku.php?id=public:japan_demo...
http://www.clearonmoney.com/dw/doku.php?id=public:japan_demo...
Well, not exactly. Lack of people of working age has an effect on economics. Reproduction is just one possible way of fixing that problem, not the only.
If you do not reproduce, then the existing population has to work longer, or you need immigration to make up the difference, at least to care for the retired generation until they pass away. And at least for Japan, they don't seem to be a big fan of immigration.
Or improve productivity per worker.
It isn't anyone's buisness, it is just interesting to consider.
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Quite right!
Now if only we could accept as a society that sex is natural, normal, and healthy, and that it is a standard part of healthy functioning relationships.
Porn wouldn't be half as popular, I believe, were creep-shaming and the entire romantic-industrial complex not so pervasive.
Now if only we could accept as a society that sex is natural, normal, and healthy, and that it is a standard part of healthy functioning relationships.
Porn wouldn't be half as popular, I believe, were creep-shaming and the entire romantic-industrial complex not so pervasive.
How about couples in a monogamous relationship - is that natural? (genuine question) Are we moving to a more fluid type of relationship - is VR sex closer to cheating?
Sexual images that are illegal would still be illegal in VR?
Sexual images that are illegal would still be illegal in VR?
>> How about couples in a monogamous relationship - is that natural?
There's some evidence that while short-term(a few years) monogamy is natural , long-term one isn't . this book talks about it:
http://www.amazon.com/Sex-Dawn-Stray-Modern-Relationships-eb...
There's some evidence that while short-term(a few years) monogamy is natural , long-term one isn't . this book talks about it:
http://www.amazon.com/Sex-Dawn-Stray-Modern-Relationships-eb...
Natural? It's certainly common. Kind of a red herring--I'm more thinking about the pattern I've seen nowadays (and this is certainly personal bias of one sort of another) where white-collar/tech workplaces are being elevated to some monastic asexual space (hah) where people have no concept of romantic interest (hah hah), and where outside of work the mere act of saying "Hey, you seem pretty cool, would you like to meet up for <insert culture-specific code phrase for precursor-context-for-eventual-offer-of-mutual-sexual-activity>?" results in frightened looks and scampering off to the warm and safe bosom of Facebook, Tinder, or online dating. Grumble. This doesn't excuse boorish behavior, mind you, but being sex-positive would be a nice norm.
Illegal sexual imagery in VR is a thing. So long as it is digitally created, I have no reason to think that it carries with it the intrinsic moral wrongness of whatever the equivalent analog act would have. That said, there's a clear counter argument that providing that sort of material normalizes the behavior.
What I think will be more interesting is looking at the IP claims to come out of VR and teledildonics...being sued by a former lover for, say, continuing to hold onto and operate recordings of their performance.
It's all rather entertaining.
Illegal sexual imagery in VR is a thing. So long as it is digitally created, I have no reason to think that it carries with it the intrinsic moral wrongness of whatever the equivalent analog act would have. That said, there's a clear counter argument that providing that sort of material normalizes the behavior.
What I think will be more interesting is looking at the IP claims to come out of VR and teledildonics...being sued by a former lover for, say, continuing to hold onto and operate recordings of their performance.
It's all rather entertaining.
You have absolutely no idea.
While not dead certain I speculate that we could reverse global warming by powering off all the child pornography servers.
http://www.warplife.com/jonathan-swift/books/software-proble...
I regard Microsoft's Bing Image search as the most-egregious offender.
Clark County Washington Deputy C. Bull suggested I notify the FBI. "The FBI obviously knows about it," I replied. "There must be some reason they don't enforce the law. I have some theories but really I do not know."
My essay is a very rough draft but far enough along that you can see where I am going with it.
While not dead certain I speculate that we could reverse global warming by powering off all the child pornography servers.
http://www.warplife.com/jonathan-swift/books/software-proble...
I regard Microsoft's Bing Image search as the most-egregious offender.
Clark County Washington Deputy C. Bull suggested I notify the FBI. "The FBI obviously knows about it," I replied. "There must be some reason they don't enforce the law. I have some theories but really I do not know."
My essay is a very rough draft but far enough along that you can see where I am going with it.
Someone needs to make "Tropes vs Men" series.
To anyone who didn't get the context (I can't edit the above post) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropes_vs._Women_in_Video_Game...
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Well!
> For most people (the asexual population and the abstaining Japanese youth notwithstanding), sex with another person, especially in the context of meaningful intimacy, is a source of joy.
> Watching porn by yourself all the time, although physically stimulating, is spiritually the opposite of this.
Participating in autosexual intercourse can absolutely be both meaningful and a powerful source of joy. It consists in the appreciation of one's own body, mind, and spirit as a full and complete flowering of the universe. Consensual sensory experiences allow that being to approach its own devotion fully.
On a less metaphysical note, this is really a marvelous denouement to the sexual brinksmanship that's infested society over the past few millenia.
From an individual perspective, I love having sex with myself. When partners I find attractive want to share, so much the better. It's not as much fun trying to convince them to, though, that part pretty much sucks, and this provides the best BATNA ever in that negotiation.
> For most people (the asexual population and the abstaining Japanese youth notwithstanding), sex with another person, especially in the context of meaningful intimacy, is a source of joy.
> Watching porn by yourself all the time, although physically stimulating, is spiritually the opposite of this.
Participating in autosexual intercourse can absolutely be both meaningful and a powerful source of joy. It consists in the appreciation of one's own body, mind, and spirit as a full and complete flowering of the universe. Consensual sensory experiences allow that being to approach its own devotion fully.
On a less metaphysical note, this is really a marvelous denouement to the sexual brinksmanship that's infested society over the past few millenia.
From an individual perspective, I love having sex with myself. When partners I find attractive want to share, so much the better. It's not as much fun trying to convince them to, though, that part pretty much sucks, and this provides the best BATNA ever in that negotiation.
> It’s not difficult to imagine a future where a cohort of the male population — especially those who have trouble connecting with members of their preferred sex — sits at home many nights with the Oculus Rift strapped to their heads, living out their sexual fantasies in VR, having their psychology further shaped and distorted by the persistent absence of connection with real life people.
Regardless, the future of porn is here, and it is fucking intense.
There's already a hit song about basically this. From 1979. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF4Z6smOrZw Also related: this film from 1973 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westworld .
There's already a hit song about basically this. From 1979. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF4Z6smOrZw Also related: this film from 1973 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westworld .
I teach in a college. our challenges are four: pot, porn, poker, and playstation. This combines porn and playstation. I fear they will next find a way to bring in pot. That'll be a problem.
Surely anyone who is wasting time on porn and/or Playstation is capable of smoking pot at the same time. I'm not sure why you think this would require some sort of tie-in at the production end.
Just make a VR version of strip poker and you can have all four!
One thing that's still imperfect with VR is getting strong presence , consistently. But pot greatly helps with that, at least according to some guys from reddit.
Poker/gambling is a common impediment in education? Where, if I may ask? I would have guessed the others, but I'm surprised by this one.
Yeah, it is the quietest one. But more people than you think do way too much online gambling.
Obviously as with the others a little bit is not an issue. But it gets in the way of life for some people.
Obviously as with the others a little bit is not an issue. But it gets in the way of life for some people.
I think it's a self correcting problem. The people that enjoy the VR to exclusion of regular human contact, will remove those people from the gene pool.
Sure, you might end with a different next generation that has the fear of VR built into them, or the entire human race will die, out, but its nothing to concern yourself with.
Sure, you might end with a different next generation that has the fear of VR built into them, or the entire human race will die, out, but its nothing to concern yourself with.
And another song, also from 1979 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm00l5N8Jao
I Love You Miss Robot, Electronic tease... programmed just to please. etc.
I Love You Miss Robot, Electronic tease... programmed just to please. etc.
Let me add this song from 1969.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izQB2-Kmiic
Also the "cyber club" that gives patrons access to any fantasy from Minority Report.
My favorite explanation for the Fermi paradox [1]: we're not seeing any alien life because they have figured out a way to entertain themselves which is far more appealing than searching for ET life forms.
Anyway, before embarking on regular VR sessions with pr0n, see this video first [2]
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox
[2] http://www.ted.com/talks/zimchallenge
Anyway, before embarking on regular VR sessions with pr0n, see this video first [2]
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox
[2] http://www.ted.com/talks/zimchallenge
Relevant SMBC: http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20131122.png
Our culture (at least in America) is poorly equipped to deal with the sexual freedoms that technology is increasingly granting. Porn is definitely a problem and a source of loneliness for many, but just like video games, its not the technology itself that is the problem.
I presume you don't intend to suggest that the freedom is the problem? I would propose we attempt to fix the stifling antisexuality of everyday social life, rather than the newfound capacity to meet bodily desires individually.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=73799908&postcoun... is perhaps relevant. (Japan a couple of years ahead as always?)
"This new technology is totally gonna make everyone lonely and messed up!"
Definitely not what I was saying.
"As Mike Kovalsky said at the end of our interview, “We really believe that virtual reality will drive the relationships between humans in the next years.”"
More like _divide_ the relationships between humans.
More like _divide_ the relationships between humans.
On one hand I'm ok with more and more dudes being taken out of the game because they're too busy fapping to increasingly more realistic pornography. At the same time, it's not obvious that the kind of men that are happy to fully migrate their sexual needs to VR porn weren't already out of the dating pool in the first place. They likely were already consuming regular porn as surrogate for their sexual lives.
On the other hand, I realize that women aren't going to sit still, and they're probably going to have to adapt to this new world, meaning they'll possibly follow along and slowly dating might become mostly virtual.
On the other hand, I realize that women aren't going to sit still, and they're probably going to have to adapt to this new world, meaning they'll possibly follow along and slowly dating might become mostly virtual.
That depends on them being interest at all.
As an Norwegian i came upon an article a year or two ago, based on book by a social scientist that had found that the Norwegian family was changing.
As the female part of the population has gained more equal economic terms, a pattern had emerged where a single "stud" man was being passed around from woman to woman. Once she found herself pregnant he was shown the door.
As an Norwegian i came upon an article a year or two ago, based on book by a social scientist that had found that the Norwegian family was changing.
As the female part of the population has gained more equal economic terms, a pattern had emerged where a single "stud" man was being passed around from woman to woman. Once she found herself pregnant he was shown the door.
Masturbation is natural, normal and healthy, and it's about time we stop the false "watches porn = lonely loser" equation.