Trying to set Linux up is making me feel like a noob
48 comments
The learning curve on Linux if you're coming from a complete Windows background is really steep. Also, each distribution has it's own pain points, and advantages. Some ditro's I'd stay clear of until you're on your way to being something of a Linux.
But, that's kind of the point of learning Linux. Feel like a noob because you are a noob. But, after setting the system up, you will have learned tons about how your computer works. Keep at it. You'll get it.
But, that's kind of the point of learning Linux. Feel like a noob because you are a noob. But, after setting the system up, you will have learned tons about how your computer works. Keep at it. You'll get it.
It's not simply a matter of learning curves. I would say vi has a pretty steep learning curve, but you get something out of it if you do learn it. Same for using a Unix shell effectively. On the other hand, knowing about Linux driver issues has no value in itself for any regular user.
Setting up Linux on a laptop is always a gamble. Sometimes it works flawlessly and at other times it's a nightmare. I recently tried to make Ubuntu work on one particular laptop. Installing it was no problem whatsoever, but the CPU just wouldn't enter C3 power state, which meant that it ran extremely hot.
I tried to deactivate every single driver to find out which one kept the CPU busy. I had to resolve all the driver interdependencies, recompile the kernel, etc. But even on a completely stripped down OS the CPU just wouldn't enter C3. None of the many tips and tricks on various Linux on laptops sites would work.
Could I have pursued this further? Sure, and at some point I would have found a solution, but it wasn't worth my time frankly.
I think Linux on laptop/desktop can work if hardware vendors get behind it and sort out all the driver issues. Everything else can be resolved by the Linux community but drivers are unsuitable for the open source model as long as some hardware vendors keep their specs secret.
Setting up Linux on a laptop is always a gamble. Sometimes it works flawlessly and at other times it's a nightmare. I recently tried to make Ubuntu work on one particular laptop. Installing it was no problem whatsoever, but the CPU just wouldn't enter C3 power state, which meant that it ran extremely hot.
I tried to deactivate every single driver to find out which one kept the CPU busy. I had to resolve all the driver interdependencies, recompile the kernel, etc. But even on a completely stripped down OS the CPU just wouldn't enter C3. None of the many tips and tricks on various Linux on laptops sites would work.
Could I have pursued this further? Sure, and at some point I would have found a solution, but it wasn't worth my time frankly.
I think Linux on laptop/desktop can work if hardware vendors get behind it and sort out all the driver issues. Everything else can be resolved by the Linux community but drivers are unsuitable for the open source model as long as some hardware vendors keep their specs secret.
The choice of distros definitely is key. How bad it is also depends on how long you've been working with computers in general. I've noticed that people who started pre-Win95 tend to make the transition a bit more easily. It helps a little if you're at least comfortable working with a CLI, doing basic scripting, etc.
I don't think that is the case anymore. At least Ubuntu is a lot easier to use than Windows. Although granted, a few thinks have to be set up properly before the fun can begin, like video codecs.
Heh, I feel that pain. I tried to install Vista about a week ago after not having run windows since 2001. I never did get it all working right, plus thanks to (I think) not having some drivers right, my 2Ghz dual core with 3 gig ram was so slow it was unusable.
I'm out of time for now but I'll try agian later in a few weeks after I buy some "vista ready" gear.
Considering that the original post has almost nothing to do with Linux, the helpfulness and positive attitudes in this thread amaze me.
I've been spending too much time at Slashdot.
I've been spending too much time at Slashdot.
Just install Ubuntu. Couldn't be easier.
I agree. I don't know what distro you are using, but you shouldn't have problems installing Ubuntu.
I'm trying ubuntu. I checked the hash on the ISO I made on the disk, and it's right, but I'm not sure what problem I'm having. First, I'm not sure I burned the CD as an image. Second, I've been unable to partition my hard drive because windows is in Spanish. Whenever I try to boot the computer after telling the BIOS to prioritize the CD-ROM, it just opens Windows as if there was nothing in there. When I give priority to the CD and nothing else, it says there's a disk error and that I need to put the system disk in.
What's most likely the problem?
What's most likely the problem?
Sounds like you copied the iso file onto a CD rather than actually burning an image. I believe Windows, can't do this on it's own. Download a burning program such as this open source one: http://infrarecorder.sourceforge.net/
Then you can follow this guide on how to burn an ISO image to a CD: http://dai-videotutes.blogspot.com/2007/07/ifrarecorder-burn...
Then you can follow this guide on how to burn an ISO image to a CD: http://dai-videotutes.blogspot.com/2007/07/ifrarecorder-burn...
If you can boot from other bootable CDs (for example a windows install CD) then it looks like you haven't burnt the disc correctly. If you can't boot from any bootable CDs then there is something wrong with your setup (on the hardware/bios side)
Yes, it seems like your cd has some errors (maybe it wasn't burnt ok, maybe the downloaded file is bad and you have to download it again). If you can't start the cd, make another bootable cd or download the image again. (Remember you have to create the image with the iso, not just create a cd with an iso file inside of it.)
If you do that ok, you'll be able to boot from the cd. Once you get to boot it, choose the option that lets you do a check on the entire cd, so you are sure there aren't errors on it (so there are no broken packages, and that kind of thing). Only after that, start the live cd, and then install from there.
If you do that ok, you'll be able to boot from the cd. Once you get to boot it, choose the option that lets you do a check on the entire cd, so you are sure there aren't errors on it (so there are no broken packages, and that kind of thing). Only after that, start the live cd, and then install from there.
Your issues have nothing to do with Ubuntu. Just buy a Dell PC with Ubuntu pre-installed, just like you've been doing with Windows.
True, it probably has nothing to do with Ubuntu. It might be the windows, it might be me.
There are a bunch of freeware CD-burning apps that can burn an ISO for you if you don't have Nero/Roxio; CDBurnerXP comes to mind. Once you are able to boot, just let Ubuntu load into the LiveCD OS. From there you can use the built in partition editor to resize your main partition and just have the installer fill up the empty space.
You typically need very specific software to burn an ISO CD. If you just copied the file, that won't work.
I used this to make my last Ubuntu disk: http://isorecorder.alexfeinman.com/isorecorder.htm
I used this to make my last Ubuntu disk: http://isorecorder.alexfeinman.com/isorecorder.htm
[deleted]
Another option, which is more noob-friendly is: http://wubi-installer.org/
It let's you install Linux from within Windows, as if you were just installing another Windows program. The main downside to this is that your disk IO will suffer since it installs Ubuntu inside of a Windows file (as a virtual disk).
Also, installing an OS is not for everyone. You can simply purchase a Dell, HP or Lenovo with Linux pre-installed, and that gets rid of the "frictional cost" of switching.
It let's you install Linux from within Windows, as if you were just installing another Windows program. The main downside to this is that your disk IO will suffer since it installs Ubuntu inside of a Windows file (as a virtual disk).
Also, installing an OS is not for everyone. You can simply purchase a Dell, HP or Lenovo with Linux pre-installed, and that gets rid of the "frictional cost" of switching.
I feel like every person who writes a guide to installing ubuntu glosses over at least a few critical details. I'm rather sick of this shit.
(I'm also trying to install rails on my mac. It's also ridiculous. You download 2 gigs of stuff, follow every instruction to the letter, and then your computer says
daniel-cussens-computer:~/src danielcussen$ mate .~/.bash_login -bash: mate: command not found
and
Error 2740. An unknown token can't go after this identifier.
which basically translates to: Error: PWNAGE! L2P, noob.)
To some up, at least in my experience, the amount of BS a user has to go through to get linux is rather enormous. I hope it's just the messed-up, non-generic user settings on my computers, but the amount of crap I've had to do makes Linux a complete impossibility for anyone who doesn't know what hexadecimal code is. But I accept the bullshit, because I know it's a right of passage, and it's worthwhile to know what a disk image, a disk ISO 9660 format (or is it file system?), a BIOS, booting priority, repartitioning, defragmenting, checking md5 hashes, and a virtual machine is. I'm going to make it happen if it takes me all week. But from a user-friendliness point of view, this is hell. I shouldn't have to know any of those things. I hope my situation is rare, because if it's not, the linux community has some serious problems.
(I'm also trying to install rails on my mac. It's also ridiculous. You download 2 gigs of stuff, follow every instruction to the letter, and then your computer says
daniel-cussens-computer:~/src danielcussen$ mate .~/.bash_login -bash: mate: command not found
and
Error 2740. An unknown token can't go after this identifier.
which basically translates to: Error: PWNAGE! L2P, noob.)
To some up, at least in my experience, the amount of BS a user has to go through to get linux is rather enormous. I hope it's just the messed-up, non-generic user settings on my computers, but the amount of crap I've had to do makes Linux a complete impossibility for anyone who doesn't know what hexadecimal code is. But I accept the bullshit, because I know it's a right of passage, and it's worthwhile to know what a disk image, a disk ISO 9660 format (or is it file system?), a BIOS, booting priority, repartitioning, defragmenting, checking md5 hashes, and a virtual machine is. I'm going to make it happen if it takes me all week. But from a user-friendliness point of view, this is hell. I shouldn't have to know any of those things. I hope my situation is rare, because if it's not, the linux community has some serious problems.
I feel like every person who writes a guide to installing ubuntu glosses over at least a few critical details. I'm rather sick of this shit.
I feel like people who write those tutorials assume a basic computer literacy from their readers. I am not assaulting you, I am replying to an assault: you have no idea how to burn a bootable CD. Period. You're not even ready to install an OS, any kid of OS. So go get yourself a basic "Build your own PC" kind of book, read it, and then try more advanced tasks such as installing operating systems.
I feel like people who write those tutorials assume a basic computer literacy from their readers. I am not assaulting you, I am replying to an assault: you have no idea how to burn a bootable CD. Period. You're not even ready to install an OS, any kid of OS. So go get yourself a basic "Build your own PC" kind of book, read it, and then try more advanced tasks such as installing operating systems.
It's true. I'm not computer literate. I thought I was, but that is because I underestimated what computer literacy meant. I thought that if I knew how to change the BIOS, knew how to burn a disc, and could unzip files, I could install Linux.
Another problem is that my situation is probably an outlier. My computer is in Spanish, which makes it a lot harder to mess with. Plus, it runs on Windows XP from 2002. On top of that, my disk drives are slightly messed up. They burn correctly according to the MD5 hashes, but one of them might not read well. Finally, none of the two computer-literate people I know are around, and "build your own PC" books are hard to find, universally in Spanish, and expensive (here in Santiago).
I'll keep trying until I find the stupid mistake I've been making all along.
And you're right. I'm being hostile; I've spent too much time over the computer over the last few days, and I'm going a little crazy. But, much like being drunk, driving oneself crazy does not excuse what you do/say when you're kind of crazy. I apologize.
Edit: both CD drives work properly.
Edit: I followed the tutorial, and burned the CD. I'm going to reboot now (both fingers crossed).
Another problem is that my situation is probably an outlier. My computer is in Spanish, which makes it a lot harder to mess with. Plus, it runs on Windows XP from 2002. On top of that, my disk drives are slightly messed up. They burn correctly according to the MD5 hashes, but one of them might not read well. Finally, none of the two computer-literate people I know are around, and "build your own PC" books are hard to find, universally in Spanish, and expensive (here in Santiago).
I'll keep trying until I find the stupid mistake I've been making all along.
And you're right. I'm being hostile; I've spent too much time over the computer over the last few days, and I'm going a little crazy. But, much like being drunk, driving oneself crazy does not excuse what you do/say when you're kind of crazy. I apologize.
Edit: both CD drives work properly.
Edit: I followed the tutorial, and burned the CD. I'm going to reboot now (both fingers crossed).
Edit: I did it! w00t! Turns out I had to choose i386 from the options at Debian. Also, when the Debian booted, error EIP 00000060 c0100231 00000230 appeared. I looked this up, and I had to type LINUX ACPI=OFF during booting. This didn't work either; I found out I had to change the onboard virtual memory from 8mb to 1mb. It's not the linux people at all. The problem was that the default onboard virtual memory of hp pavilions is too high. It took me three days to find that out.
"The computer is personal again."
"The computer is personal again."
Congrats!
Edit: I think I found the problem. I had to choose i386 instead of alpha on the <a href="http://www.debian.org/CD/netinst/>debian site</a>. I figured out this referred to my processor. Thanks to the guy who posted the tutorial on the infrarecorder; it looks like it will work.
Dude. Buy a dell with ubuntu, or one of those wal-mart computers wit gOS. Or call up a computer dude to fix your computer for you. Or order correctly-burned ubuntu cds.
Well, if it's your first time installing it, you are a newbie.
Would probably be easier to help if we knew what distro you're trying to install...
I find it easier to install Linux than Windows, but that's probably because I'm more familiar with Linux. Anyway, unless you're using a geek linux distro, you really shouldn't be having such a hard time. Ubuntu, Kubuntu, or (my favorite) Fedora 8 should all be really easy to install.
Also, what exactly is the problem you're having? You'll get more help if you have more specific problems.
Also, what exactly is the problem you're having? You'll get more help if you have more specific problems.
Update (3 hours after posting): I'm trying again, this time with a new CD. Thanks for the advice; I hope it works.
Now I'm getting a message that says
1. HD System Type-(00) Missing operating system
Crap.
1. HD System Type-(00) Missing operating system
Crap.
Daniel, your problem is the way you are burning the iso. You are burning it as a file, while you have to burn it as a image file. Read this: http://www.petri.co.il/how_to_write_iso_files_to_cd.htm
I think this'll put an end to your problems.
I think this'll put an end to your problems.
(I know you've been told this before, but that's why you get that message. Your computer can't boot from the cd unless you burn it properly, and burning the iso as a file won't work even if it seems reasonable.)
http://goodbye-microsoft.com/ is your friend.
It lets you install Debian from within Windows (and is different from wubi, as it does a proper install).
It lets you install Debian from within Windows (and is different from wubi, as it does a proper install).
I'm trying this. I get a window that asks me if I want to load Windows XP or Debian Installer. If I choose Debian Installer, it says welcome to grub, and then nothing happens for a while and I get the starting screen again.
I'm going to go off of everyone else's diagnoses that the ISO is not being properly burnt. If this is indeed the case, Ubuntu has some very clear directions for burning the ISO to disc.
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto
Hope that helps.
Also, if you still can't burn the CD for some reason, Ubuntu will ship you a CD for free.
http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto
Hope that helps.
Also, if you still can't burn the CD for some reason, Ubuntu will ship you a CD for free.
http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu
Sounds as if it still not booting from CD. Actually with the Ubuntu CD, the Ubuntu Live System could come up first (without you doing anything). Does that happen?
While we're on the topic of installing Ubuntu which is agreed to be the easiest, may I recommend Ubuntu Ultimate
http://ultimateedition.info/Ubuntu_Ultimate_1.6/
Its just normal ubuntu but with different default packages installed, which are actually really useful (go to the site and read about it), and all repositories enabled.
Some people really don't like this because they say its annoying but most people really end up downloading all these packages anyway...might as well save the hassle. Not to mention it comes with an interesting default theme.
http://ultimateedition.info/Ubuntu_Ultimate_1.6/
Its just normal ubuntu but with different default packages installed, which are actually really useful (go to the site and read about it), and all repositories enabled.
Some people really don't like this because they say its annoying but most people really end up downloading all these packages anyway...might as well save the hassle. Not to mention it comes with an interesting default theme.
I've been using linux off and on since 1995-1996 (gosh, has it been that long?).
It's only been in the last couple years that I feel confortable enough to use it day to day as a primary OS (actually put it on my wife's laptop and she's fine with it surprisingly enough).
So all the seat time you've got with Windows? You don't have that with Linux and you're going to have problems.
Anyone that says the switch is painless blah blah is high on the rock.
Y creo que hay algo que no esta configurado correctamente en su BIOS (para boot desde el DVD). Tambien es posible que el disco no fue quemado (burned) correctamente....
It's only been in the last couple years that I feel confortable enough to use it day to day as a primary OS (actually put it on my wife's laptop and she's fine with it surprisingly enough).
So all the seat time you've got with Windows? You don't have that with Linux and you're going to have problems.
Anyone that says the switch is painless blah blah is high on the rock.
Y creo que hay algo que no esta configurado correctamente en su BIOS (para boot desde el DVD). Tambien es posible que el disco no fue quemado (burned) correctamente....
The true learning experience comes from learning how to install linux even it means initially struggling but eventually figuring it out.
there is nothing wrong in being a noob. But hey you are learning the right way;)
try virtualization something like vmplayer should do it.
"linux is completely inaccessible for most everybody because the frictional cost of changing from windows to linux is enormous."
Unfortunately there isn't a whole lot the Linux community can do about that. The only reason Windows is so accessible to so many people is that it comes on their computer. I doubt if most Windows users would be able to install the OS from scratch.
I have to agree with you on some level though; Ubuntu is great and it has been my primary OS for several years now, but I can't say I would recommend for a non-geek to use it instead of Windows. It excites me, though, that with every release I get closer and closer to being able to do that.
Unfortunately there isn't a whole lot the Linux community can do about that. The only reason Windows is so accessible to so many people is that it comes on their computer. I doubt if most Windows users would be able to install the OS from scratch.
I have to agree with you on some level though; Ubuntu is great and it has been my primary OS for several years now, but I can't say I would recommend for a non-geek to use it instead of Windows. It excites me, though, that with every release I get closer and closer to being able to do that.
I'm still trying to install it. Wish me luck; it might take a few more days.