Why the Saudis Are Going Solar(theatlantic.com)
theatlantic.com
Why the Saudis Are Going Solar
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/07/saudis-solar-energy/395315/?single_page=true
8 comments
You mean the America that invented the photovoltaic industry courtesy of Bell Labs?
The one that is among the leading nations on solar, wind and nuclear?
The one that has several of the world's largest, most successful independent solar companies, including First Solar, SunPower, SunEdison, and SolarCity? The same America that is undergoing a vast, rapid solar boom?
"Residential Solar Grows by 76% over Q1 2014"
"The U.S. installed 1,306 megawatts (MW) of solar photovoltaics (PV) in the first quarter of 2015 to reach 21.3 gigawatts (GW) of total installed capacity, enough to power 4.3 million American homes. 51 percent of new electric generating capacity came from solar in Q1 2015, and the residential and utility-scale segments each added more capacity than the natural gas industry."
http://www.seia.org/research-resources/us-solar-market-insig...
Remind me again in what way Saudi Arabia is taking a longer term view than the US is.
The one that is among the leading nations on solar, wind and nuclear?
The one that has several of the world's largest, most successful independent solar companies, including First Solar, SunPower, SunEdison, and SolarCity? The same America that is undergoing a vast, rapid solar boom?
"Residential Solar Grows by 76% over Q1 2014"
"The U.S. installed 1,306 megawatts (MW) of solar photovoltaics (PV) in the first quarter of 2015 to reach 21.3 gigawatts (GW) of total installed capacity, enough to power 4.3 million American homes. 51 percent of new electric generating capacity came from solar in Q1 2015, and the residential and utility-scale segments each added more capacity than the natural gas industry."
http://www.seia.org/research-resources/us-solar-market-insig...
Remind me again in what way Saudi Arabia is taking a longer term view than the US is.
Especially when the global map of solar irradiance looks like this:
http://i.imgur.com/CIcFQYU.jpg
Which makes solar plays in the Middle East much more economically viable as compared to in the US (although to be fair, as a opportunity cost, their fuel prices are much lower..)
http://i.imgur.com/CIcFQYU.jpg
Which makes solar plays in the Middle East much more economically viable as compared to in the US (although to be fair, as a opportunity cost, their fuel prices are much lower..)
Most of this map makes sense, but why is that area of China so low?
It's kinda shocking to see it on the map, but that's because of all the smog:
http://portal.rrcap.ait.asia/abc/Pages/default.aspx
> Atmospheric brown clouds (ABCs) are widespread layers of brownish haze of air pollutants, such as aerosol particles (black carbon (BC) and non BC), and precursor gases (e.g. CH4, CO, NMVOCs, NOx), which produce aerosols and ozone. ABCs and their interaction with build-up of greenhouse gases significantly affect the regional climate, hydrological cycle, glacial melting, agriculture production, ecosystem and human health.
http://www.britannica.com/science/atmospheric-brown-cloud
> The presence of both types of aerosols in the air reduces the amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the Earth, producing a phenomenon called “dimming.” This type of radiative forcing is referred to as the “aerosol direct effect.” In addition, aerosols can influence the formation of clouds, known as the “aerosol indirect effect.” Atmospheric brown clouds contain a mixture of both types of aerosols. Because of the effects of atmospheric brown clouds, India and China are dimmer at the surface today by at least 6 percent compared with their state in preindustrial times.
http://portal.rrcap.ait.asia/abc/Pages/default.aspx
> Atmospheric brown clouds (ABCs) are widespread layers of brownish haze of air pollutants, such as aerosol particles (black carbon (BC) and non BC), and precursor gases (e.g. CH4, CO, NMVOCs, NOx), which produce aerosols and ozone. ABCs and their interaction with build-up of greenhouse gases significantly affect the regional climate, hydrological cycle, glacial melting, agriculture production, ecosystem and human health.
http://www.britannica.com/science/atmospheric-brown-cloud
> The presence of both types of aerosols in the air reduces the amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the Earth, producing a phenomenon called “dimming.” This type of radiative forcing is referred to as the “aerosol direct effect.” In addition, aerosols can influence the formation of clouds, known as the “aerosol indirect effect.” Atmospheric brown clouds contain a mixture of both types of aerosols. Because of the effects of atmospheric brown clouds, India and China are dimmer at the surface today by at least 6 percent compared with their state in preindustrial times.
Any idea why this shows equatorial regions as having lower irradiance than other areas? It seems unintuitive to me.
Places on the equator (0 degrees) tend to be rain forests. Places on the tropics of cancer/capricorn (30 degrees) tend to be deserts. This is due to the way the upper atmosphere works.
Air that rises tends to rain. Air that falls tends to be cloudless. This is because of how the dewpoint changes at different altitudes.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=jet+streams&ia=images&iai=http%3A%...
Air that rises tends to rain. Air that falls tends to be cloudless. This is because of how the dewpoint changes at different altitudes.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=jet+streams&ia=images&iai=http%3A%...
Many clouds
Lighter is more.
you must not read the wall street journal. not long ago i read a lengthy article discussing the threats of solar and wind power. there is substantial concern they will displace coal fired power plants.
see the investors already own utility stocks.
see the investors already own utility stocks.
Link to article?
Maybe. If they had no oil they would be a solar superpower.
But its more than just the solar plants that they need, they need transmission facilities to their customers outside the kingdom.
My prediction is simply this: The oil will run out, the cash will run out, and the kingdom will collapse.
They have no cultural understanding of saving for the future. Contrast that with Norway and the way Norway has managed their oil revenue.
http://www.rferl.org/content/what-can-norway-teach-other-oil...
By the time, Saudi Arabia discovers that the move to solar is not optional - all the other countries in the region will have moved to solar or renewable because those countries have no choice.
But its more than just the solar plants that they need, they need transmission facilities to their customers outside the kingdom.
My prediction is simply this: The oil will run out, the cash will run out, and the kingdom will collapse.
They have no cultural understanding of saving for the future. Contrast that with Norway and the way Norway has managed their oil revenue.
http://www.rferl.org/content/what-can-norway-teach-other-oil...
By the time, Saudi Arabia discovers that the move to solar is not optional - all the other countries in the region will have moved to solar or renewable because those countries have no choice.
> They have no cultural understanding of saving for the future.
This is nonsense, Norway is an odd one out, barely any other countries save for the future. It's Norway that's culturally not normal.
> By the time, Saudi Arabia discovers that the move to solar is not optional.
There's enough cheap fossil fuels on planet earth to last pretty much forever so this also has no meaning, unless you're talking about other countries invading them if they keep using fossil fuels?
Even if all the other countries refused to sell them fossil fuels, I'd find it hard to believe after the oil runs out in such a huge reserve there are no other cheap alternatives locally like gas.
This is nonsense, Norway is an odd one out, barely any other countries save for the future. It's Norway that's culturally not normal.
> By the time, Saudi Arabia discovers that the move to solar is not optional.
There's enough cheap fossil fuels on planet earth to last pretty much forever so this also has no meaning, unless you're talking about other countries invading them if they keep using fossil fuels?
Even if all the other countries refused to sell them fossil fuels, I'd find it hard to believe after the oil runs out in such a huge reserve there are no other cheap alternatives locally like gas.
they need transmission facilities to their customers outside the kingdom.
Not necessarily, there are lots of industrial processes that become very attractive if electricity is plentiful and essentially free.
Look at Norway again. Before they had oil two of their major exports was artificial fertilizer and later aluminium. Both these products required huge amounts of electricity to make and Norway had lots of cheap hydroelectricity. So instead of trying to export electricity, they built huge factories next to the power plants and exported the aluminium and fertilizer produced in these factories instead.
Not necessarily, there are lots of industrial processes that become very attractive if electricity is plentiful and essentially free.
Look at Norway again. Before they had oil two of their major exports was artificial fertilizer and later aluminium. Both these products required huge amounts of electricity to make and Norway had lots of cheap hydroelectricity. So instead of trying to export electricity, they built huge factories next to the power plants and exported the aluminium and fertilizer produced in these factories instead.
"My prediction is simply this: The oil will run out, the cash will run out, and the kingdom will collapse."
Obligatory Syriana clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtcaIA9SU7o
Obligatory Syriana clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtcaIA9SU7o
Saudis running out of money is the silver lining around the ominous cloud of peak oil !
Why? Further destabilization in the Middle East is desirable?
It's likely Saudi Arabia is a wolf in sheep's clothing - sold to the American people as an ally - but actually terrible in everything from human rights to funding of radical groups.
You know, with friends like this...
Still, it's not like the rest of the region is in the best of shape. What good could come of 30m people being dropped into abject poverty with no hope?
It's likely Saudi Arabia is a wolf in sheep's clothing - sold to the American people as an ally - but actually terrible in everything from human rights to funding of radical groups.
You know, with friends like this...
Still, it's not like the rest of the region is in the best of shape. What good could come of 30m people being dropped into abject poverty with no hope?
Saudis are major overseas investors. They have a serious problem that, on the scale of trillions of dollars of cumulative oil income, there isn't anywhere safe to put that quantity of savings.
However, these savings are "personal" savings of the monarchy, because it's not a free country. The population have been bought off for the time being, and told that an especially patriarchal flavour of Islam is better than western freedom. But fundamentally it's a country that relies on importing food and desalinating water, so as the fields deplete they need to be careful not to turn into Yemen.
However, these savings are "personal" savings of the monarchy, because it's not a free country. The population have been bought off for the time being, and told that an especially patriarchal flavour of Islam is better than western freedom. But fundamentally it's a country that relies on importing food and desalinating water, so as the fields deplete they need to be careful not to turn into Yemen.
> they need transmission facilities to their customers outside the kingdom.
Just idle thought -- it would be interesting if they turned into the "big battery capital of the Middle East/Eurasia/the world," with electric cars etc. on the rise.
Just idle thought -- it would be interesting if they turned into the "big battery capital of the Middle East/Eurasia/the world," with electric cars etc. on the rise.
> According to a widely read December 2011 report by Chatham House, a British think tank, if this trend continues, domestic consumption could eat into Saudi oil exports by 2021 and render the kingdom a net oil importer by 2038
The article seems logically broken.
If shipping oil to another county is cheaper for that country than solar why does SA want solar? They are losing even more money.
And why not just import coal like everyone else.
Seems to me it's about energy security and the fact burning oil for electricity has less worth than the other uses which they can on sell it for.
The article seems logically broken.
If shipping oil to another county is cheaper for that country than solar why does SA want solar? They are losing even more money.
And why not just import coal like everyone else.
Seems to me it's about energy security and the fact burning oil for electricity has less worth than the other uses which they can on sell it for.
Large expanses of unused land with plenty of sunlight. Even a 5th grader can figure that one out.
What I want to know is, if oil is so cheap there, why isn't there more manufacturing of petroleum based products there?
What I want to know is, if oil is so cheap there, why isn't there more manufacturing of petroleum based products there?
One historical factor is that they have a high reliance on foreign workers in highly skilled industries. This talent comes and goes. This can't be changed overnight, and the education system does have a strong religious component that is likely not going away. I've also read that culture impedes the receptiveness of young men to education.
Another factor is that crude oil travels better. Some of the more lucrative products have a limited shelf life. Gasoline's life is measured in months.
Another factor is that crude oil travels better. Some of the more lucrative products have a limited shelf life. Gasoline's life is measured in months.
They do, planning to spend $91bn over the next 10 years, and the current petrochemical sector is valued at $48.5 bn.
(Source: wikipedia)
(Source: wikipedia)
Saudis make outsized profits because they can export their oil around the world. Although they will be very efficient at producing power from the sun, I doubt it will be enough to counteract losses from electricity transmission. Cheap power for themselves and close neighbors will not translate into world-beating wealth.
Its because they have lots of sun. what the hell kind of title is that? Might as well have been titles "Why are people utilizing the natural resources that are abundantly available to them?" OMFg. "Read more after the jump" dude are you fucking serious. Unreal.
No it's because they have a radical ideology!
Looks like one of those image-cleaning planted articles.
There are many cultures where they take a far longer term view then do my fellow Americans.