Why Japanese Toilets Are Failing in America (2013)(tofugu.com)
tofugu.com
Why Japanese Toilets Are Failing in America (2013)
http://www.tofugu.com/2013/07/22/why-japanese-toilets-are-failing-in-america/
64 comments
> The feeling of having a genuinely clean butt gives you the confidence you need to go crush it in the boardroom.
Can't speak to bidets, but a while back on a whim I bought some flushable moist wipes and started using just like one at the end.
Yeah knowing you have a clean butt is totally a confidence booster.
Side note: on the general toilet subject
Niagra Conserveration's 1.25 gallon flaperless toilet is excellent that thing can flush a giraffe[1].
[1]Specifically it will flush >= 1kg of soybean paste http://www.map-testing.com/map-search.html
Can't speak to bidets, but a while back on a whim I bought some flushable moist wipes and started using just like one at the end.
Yeah knowing you have a clean butt is totally a confidence booster.
Side note: on the general toilet subject
Niagra Conserveration's 1.25 gallon flaperless toilet is excellent that thing can flush a giraffe[1].
[1]Specifically it will flush >= 1kg of soybean paste http://www.map-testing.com/map-search.html
There is some difference of opinion regarding whether wipes purported to be flushable should be:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/15/nyregion/the-wet-wipes-box...
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/15/nyregion/the-wet-wipes-box...
Was looking at the Niagra Conservation website, they seem to sell only through distributors and plumbing professionals. Are these sold for DIY installation?
You can buy them from Amazon I know, I just checked home depots website, they only have the .8 gpf toilet which is can't vouch for.
... Which is to say yes you can buy them for diy.
... Which is to say yes you can buy them for diy.
I used wipes for a while, but they always made me itchy (even the supposed hypoallergenic ones).
>>"The feeling of having a genuinely clean butt gives you the confidence you need to go crush it in the boardroom."
WMAO!
WMAO!
How do you dry your ass off?
Wipe once with toilet paper and you're good to go. It's like the best of Eastern and Western civilization, coming together to clean your ass.
Obviously you still have toilet paper, but in my experience some of these toilets also have air jets for drying.
Based on trying to use toilet paper to dry off from an errant splash, it's not very good at that purpose. It's designed to fall apart as soon as it gets wet. And anything that isn't (paper towels, etc.) should really not go down the drain, as it's likely to form clogs.
You're just cleaning up droplets of water on the underside of your butt, not sponging up a puddle. If your toiler paper can't handle that, I have to wonder how it can handle its other duties. Try a higher ply.
[deleted]
They ones I've seen have built-in driers.
Here's my answer:
* no plugs near the toilet in American homes
* too f'ing expensive
Combined, these two turn getting a Japanese style toilet into a multi-thousand dollar investment. To compare, even reasonably nice toilets cost <$200 at your local hardware store.
There are U.S. homes with Bidets in them. My sister had one in the master bath of her 1940s era home. But they're again another $200-400 prices plus plumbing costs.
If somebody made a Japanese style toilet, and it and install were <$500 Toto brand toilets would be everywhere.
* no plugs near the toilet in American homes
* too f'ing expensive
Combined, these two turn getting a Japanese style toilet into a multi-thousand dollar investment. To compare, even reasonably nice toilets cost <$200 at your local hardware store.
There are U.S. homes with Bidets in them. My sister had one in the master bath of her 1940s era home. But they're again another $200-400 prices plus plumbing costs.
If somebody made a Japanese style toilet, and it and install were <$500 Toto brand toilets would be everywhere.
I saw the bidet seat attachments being hawked in the aisle of a CostCo
recently, so that may be a sign that people in the US are willing to
consider the purchase.
http://www.costco.com/toilets-washlets.html
Re the "flushable" wipes - many US municipal waste plants would reportedly like that word removed from the labeling - while they will flush, they do not decompose readily.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/flus...
http://www.costco.com/toilets-washlets.html
Re the "flushable" wipes - many US municipal waste plants would reportedly like that word removed from the labeling - while they will flush, they do not decompose readily.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/flus...
Yeah, I saw those too. $250-$600?!
Why is the one without the $10 of plastic seat cover just $40, while the ones with are 10x as much?
There's a two-pack consisting of two entire toilets, with seats, that within the ballpark of just one of those bidet seats. I cannot fathom what kind of gold plated electronics are stashed away inside of these bidet seats. The $600 model has a cutaway view showing maybe $150 of stuff packed away inside.
This is kind of what I'm talking about. The price for Japanese-style toilet stuff is kind of bonkers.
Why is the one without the $10 of plastic seat cover just $40, while the ones with are 10x as much?
There's a two-pack consisting of two entire toilets, with seats, that within the ballpark of just one of those bidet seats. I cannot fathom what kind of gold plated electronics are stashed away inside of these bidet seats. The $600 model has a cutaway view showing maybe $150 of stuff packed away inside.
This is kind of what I'm talking about. The price for Japanese-style toilet stuff is kind of bonkers.
http://www.amazon.com/Luxe-MB110-Non-Electric-Mechanical-Att...
These definitely aren't nearly as nice as the Japanese toilet (which is mostly noticed in that the temperature of the bidet water is at pipe temperature), but they do render both of your big points moot. I own one, and I highly recommend them.
These definitely aren't nearly as nice as the Japanese toilet (which is mostly noticed in that the temperature of the bidet water is at pipe temperature), but they do render both of your big points moot. I own one, and I highly recommend them.
"no plugs near the toilet in American homes"
Yes this is the reason we don't have one in our home... the licensed electrical work needed is both too much of a hassle and expensive. Electrical work, especially in the bathroom, is not something I'm willing to hack.
Yes this is the reason we don't have one in our home... the licensed electrical work needed is both too much of a hassle and expensive. Electrical work, especially in the bathroom, is not something I'm willing to hack.
So I was shopping for bathroom fixtures with my wife and I decided to use the bathroom (the ones that were plumbed!).
I sit down, do my thing, and I notice there's a remote control unit. I press the button and a jet of water shoots up my ass, and I get so freaked out I stood up and got the rest of me wet, too. Having not read the manual, I press a few more buttons because I hear these things dry you as well. It did, after a few more squirting incidents.
It would have been cool to have one of these things, but they do cost a fair bit more than a normal toilet. Also your guests may never return to your house.
Oh and someday these things will be so advanced they will be considered intelligent. Terrible thought, an intelligent being whose whole life is looking where the sun don't shine.
I sit down, do my thing, and I notice there's a remote control unit. I press the button and a jet of water shoots up my ass, and I get so freaked out I stood up and got the rest of me wet, too. Having not read the manual, I press a few more buttons because I hear these things dry you as well. It did, after a few more squirting incidents.
It would have been cool to have one of these things, but they do cost a fair bit more than a normal toilet. Also your guests may never return to your house.
Oh and someday these things will be so advanced they will be considered intelligent. Terrible thought, an intelligent being whose whole life is looking where the sun don't shine.
Proctologist?
This is a big deal, but no one wants to think or talk about it. You can start to experience this by just taking a shower immediately after anything that would normally require a bidet (read: toilet paper... or kleenex). It's quickly realised that this means a LOT of time wasted taking showers and clothes-changing to stay clean in only two areas. And I'm sure everyone shaves often enough so that nothing sticks, right? It then become annoying, as this is entirely a solved problem from the engineering side (very much "not invented here"). I don't even use toilet paper any more. However, I live in an apartment and can't afford one of these washlets anyway, yet I very clearly see the advantages.
As an Italian living in Italy (bidets in every bathroom here) I can't think of any more convenient way to clean myself after I used the WC. I experienced the Japanese one in Japan and it's not as effective, but it's better than nothing.
Note that deep into the piece, the author reveals he's never actually tried one before. So take his advice and analysis with a grain of salt.
Before smartphones became the rage, American consumer technology always lagged behind japan in terms of adoption. I think this is still the case for a lot of things, including toilets.
Yes and no. Fax machines are still more popular than email in Japan.
Even in more rural parts of Japan, how quickly is technology adopted? Or do we make the assumption that Tokyo and a few other cities == Japan?
In 2009 I went cycling around the Japanese countryside. I was enjoying the scenery of farmland when all of a sudden this drone came out of nowhere and started spraying all the crops.
Even then I don't think it's true. Some things caught on big in Japan, but in general it seems that they're no less conservative than consumers in the US. It's not like that started with smart phones, DVD and home computers took off in the US well before they did in Japan.
Tokyo alone has 25% of Japan's population. So I think it is fair to say that Tokyo and a few other cities == Japan.
We love these things. We have bought at least 8 of the Totos over the last 10 years. None has ever needed repair (we have several houses). They helped me a lot after an abdominal operation, and are good for our severely learning delayed son.
If anyone wants to give it a try, here it is a cheaper alternate [1].
This doesn't require the electricity since it is manual but more or less play the same role like Japanese toilets (without drying facility but you can use TP after using it).
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet_shower
This doesn't require the electricity since it is manual but more or less play the same role like Japanese toilets (without drying facility but you can use TP after using it).
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet_shower
And they are useful to clean the toilets as well.
"Also, interestingly enough, most people who grew up with bidets believe the toilet paper only method to be unsanitary whereas those brought up on TP only believe bidets to be inferior."
If bidets are inferior to TP, then why should we wash our hands after using the toilet? Surely a wipe over of our hands with a piece of TP would be better.
If bidets are inferior to TP, then why should we wash our hands after using the toilet? Surely a wipe over of our hands with a piece of TP would be better.
How about you can't compare a bidet to washing your hands. When you wash your hands you use soap and purposefully rinse a way from your body. A bidet just sprays some water with no anti microbial properties, and it makes no attempt to wash germs away from your body. Tp might not be great at going antimicrobial but at least it is intelligently applied to keep germs contained instead of washing them all over your backside.
Intelligently applied to keep germs contained? The intelligence left the building with that statement. Water is 10X more hygienic than toilet paper. Next time you want to wash your hands try wiping them with dry toilet paper.
Your hands touch your eyes, nose, mouth and food. The possibility of transferring germs is high unless you carefully wash your hands.
American homes are generally insulated, not drafty, and centrally heated. There is therefore no need to heat your butt to stop it freezing to your toilet seat, and so no overwhelming drive to connect everyone's loos to the mains, and all the other features aren't enough to make it a mainstream purchase.
The heat is nice, but the bidet function is the main reason I'd want one if I ever move from Japan.
Check out the Hand Bidet Sprayer at www.bathroomsprayers.com.
I didn't really like living and working in Japan, but the toilet in my flat is one of the few things that I dearly miss. I don't know why anyone would want to stick their hand in "the mess" with a flimsy layer of cheap paper as the only insulator between skin and "the mess" when such a great alternative is available.
The machine I had in Japan had a hot water connection instead of an electric heater. However, being electrically inclined, the models sold in the USA would be a better proposition for me, rather than having to plumb a hot water line to the toilet. I'm going to get a Toto as soon as I expect to remain in one place for longer than five years.
On the other hand, I've had experience with German toilets too, and wow the fact that this exists makes me sad.
The machine I had in Japan had a hot water connection instead of an electric heater. However, being electrically inclined, the models sold in the USA would be a better proposition for me, rather than having to plumb a hot water line to the toilet. I'm going to get a Toto as soon as I expect to remain in one place for longer than five years.
On the other hand, I've had experience with German toilets too, and wow the fact that this exists makes me sad.
[deleted]
I experienced the japanese toilet the first time in 2006. I was curious to try but afraid it would get messy. It takes a bit getting used to. When i came back to the netherlands, i wanted to buy one too but, like the US, no power in the toilet.
After i got my new apartment i had a power outlet built in the toilet. Now im so used to it, sometimes i even look for the remote in other peoples toilets, lol.
They say using TP only cleans 20-30% of bacteria and with a bidet around 95%. Most important is that you feel just fresher down there.
My friends coming over dont use it, but my girlfriend does and loves it.
After i got my new apartment i had a power outlet built in the toilet. Now im so used to it, sometimes i even look for the remote in other peoples toilets, lol.
They say using TP only cleans 20-30% of bacteria and with a bidet around 95%. Most important is that you feel just fresher down there.
My friends coming over dont use it, but my girlfriend does and loves it.
Just an FYI: The Dutch word 'toilet' means restroom or bathroom. So if a Dutch person would say: "I washed my hands in the toilet", that doesn't mean what you think it means..
Well, British (International) English too... it always seems weird the US thing of calling the toilet the bathroom.
There are, however, many Americans who started to use wet wipes because they want to feel cleaner.
Bidet attachments and bidet seats ("washlets") are much cheaper in the long run and they also aren't a problem for the sewage system.
By the way, electricity isn't an unsolvable problem. There are water resistant extension cord covers. You can safely extend it.
Maybe it would be a good idea to produce models with replaceable power cords (with generic IEC 60320 plugs) for the American and European market.
Bidet attachments and bidet seats ("washlets") are much cheaper in the long run and they also aren't a problem for the sewage system.
By the way, electricity isn't an unsolvable problem. There are water resistant extension cord covers. You can safely extend it.
Maybe it would be a good idea to produce models with replaceable power cords (with generic IEC 60320 plugs) for the American and European market.
After using them in various Google bathrooms, I spent the money and added a Toto washlet to my toilet. It has easily been worth it.
How do folks use bidets (or those spray-hoses they use in India) without getting water and feces everywhere? How do they dry off without using tons of toilet paper?
The whole bidet thing just seems messy and unsanitary. I'm sure that there's a way to use it which isn't messy and unsanitary, but I'm not about to make a mess trying to learn!
The whole bidet thing just seems messy and unsanitary. I'm sure that there's a way to use it which isn't messy and unsanitary, but I'm not about to make a mess trying to learn!
The bidet is not a replacement for toilet paper, it's an extra step after using the toilet paper.
In simpler language - after you wipe your ass, you sit down on the bidet, open the faucet and gently rinse your butt.
At this stage, your butt doesn't contain large pieces of shit, it's in the same state when you take a shower.
As a consequence of using a bidet, your underware stays clean, no more 'thin brown line' on white underpants, no shitty smell and no creamy feeling in the butt when you sweat.
In simpler language - after you wipe your ass, you sit down on the bidet, open the faucet and gently rinse your butt.
At this stage, your butt doesn't contain large pieces of shit, it's in the same state when you take a shower.
As a consequence of using a bidet, your underware stays clean, no more 'thin brown line' on white underpants, no shitty smell and no creamy feeling in the butt when you sweat.
The only place feces are going to go is inside the bidets, much like a toilet. It's not going to be flying around the room and the jet of water isn't that powerfull.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xnm1syPnwE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xnm1syPnwE
Here's one study that found potential risk from aerosolised particles from flush toilets.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16033465
> Many individuals may be unaware of the risk of air-borne dissemination of microbes when flushing the toilet and the consequent surface contamination that may spread infection within the household, via direct surface-to-hand-to mouth contact. Some enteric viruses could persist in the air after toilet flushing and infection may be acquired after inhalation and swallowing.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16033465
> Many individuals may be unaware of the risk of air-borne dissemination of microbes when flushing the toilet and the consequent surface contamination that may spread infection within the household, via direct surface-to-hand-to mouth contact. Some enteric viruses could persist in the air after toilet flushing and infection may be acquired after inhalation and swallowing.
I am sure your opinion would change once you start using it. It's definitely not as messy as you describe it. On the contrary it takes less paper and is more sanitary IMO.
How does it clean you properly with just water? Surely you would need to use soap and use your hand, which doesn't seem to be very sanitary...
EDIT: there's no need to downvote...I was simply asking a question, as I've never used a bidet. However in my experience, it's not possible to remove all the poop simply using a shower...soap and hand action is also required. I'm curious about how the spray can clean you properly.
EDIT: there's no need to downvote...I was simply asking a question, as I've never used a bidet. However in my experience, it's not possible to remove all the poop simply using a shower...soap and hand action is also required. I'm curious about how the spray can clean you properly.
> Surely you would need to use soap and use your hand, which doesn't seem to be very sanitary...
You can wash yourself with soap, and then wash your hands (which you should do in any case). I don't see how you can think that leaving all that the TP doesn't take away can be _more_ sanitary than a bidet.
You can wash yourself with soap, and then wash your hands (which you should do in any case). I don't see how you can think that leaving all that the TP doesn't take away can be _more_ sanitary than a bidet.
I never said that TP is more sanitary. I was more concerned about poopy water dripping from your hands while getting the soap, or poopy water splashing onto your legs, etc. However as I've never used a bidet, perhaps these aren't problems.
I think if you really want to get clean after a particularly messy poop, the best way is to have a shower from the crotch down.
I think if you really want to get clean after a particularly messy poop, the best way is to have a shower from the crotch down.
Whatever you do, you'll end up cleaner than when just wiping with paper anyway.
It's like riding a bike, before you could ride it looked scary but once you know how it's a breeze. The Hand Bidet Sprayer makes toilet paper obsolete and quite frankly...nasty/ Cleaning with water is the only way to go. If you touched dog poop would you wipe your hand or wash your hand? See www.bathroomsprayers.com.
It's not a gasoline-fueled power washer.
Also, picture your bum from below when sitting on the pot. Do you really think the bidet has trouble hitting its target?
Also, picture your bum from below when sitting on the pot. Do you really think the bidet has trouble hitting its target?
I've already read several good reasons here. Another major problem is that the issues solved by these expensive toilets can be solved by much cheaper means.
Temperature: cold seats are not a problem in the Southern third of the country, and where they are, a padded vinyl seat is quite effective in mitigating the problem.
Cleanliness: Wet wipes work quite well. Our favorite after trying many brands with a new baby is the Target generic unscented wipes. They are about $2.50 a pack, or $20 for a metric-xxxxload.
Therefore I cite the KISS rule, "keep it simple stupid." Cost and maintenance issues heavily favor the simple toilet and why I've never been very interested in fancy ones despite the disbelief of others.
Temperature: cold seats are not a problem in the Southern third of the country, and where they are, a padded vinyl seat is quite effective in mitigating the problem.
Cleanliness: Wet wipes work quite well. Our favorite after trying many brands with a new baby is the Target generic unscented wipes. They are about $2.50 a pack, or $20 for a metric-xxxxload.
Therefore I cite the KISS rule, "keep it simple stupid." Cost and maintenance issues heavily favor the simple toilet and why I've never been very interested in fancy ones despite the disbelief of others.
> Wet wipes work quite well.
Wet wipes are terrible for the sewage system:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/15/nyregion/the-wet-wipes-box...
> [Wet wipes] are about $2.50 a pack, or $20 for a metric-xxxxload.
You can buy a cheap mechanical bidet attachment for around $30.
Wet wipes are terrible for the sewage system:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/15/nyregion/the-wet-wipes-box...
> [Wet wipes] are about $2.50 a pack, or $20 for a metric-xxxxload.
You can buy a cheap mechanical bidet attachment for around $30.
They can be folded over and thrown out.
Stupid question, but doesn't the stream of water potentially spray fecal matter all over the nozzle itself, causing contamination?
I would recommend not drinking from your bidet, after which this is a moot point. Most things in bathrooms have small amounts of fecal matter on them.
To actually answer your question, this has never been a visible issue for me in the many years I've used one.
To actually answer your question, this has never been a visible issue for me in the many years I've used one.
[deleted]
The water jet is unsettling the first time you use it, but you get used to it quickly. The feeling of having a genuinely clean butt gives you the confidence you need to go crush it in the boardroom.