What happened when an anti-Semite found he was Jewish?(bbc.com)
bbc.com
What happened when an anti-Semite found he was Jewish?
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-32549099
6 comments
People who make their identity all about what tribe they're in (whether that tribe be their color, creed, country, or simply hobbies or tastes or sports team) don't have much of a self-identity to begin with.
Edit: By "people who make their identity all about their tribe" I'm referring to racial supremacists, religious fundamentalists, political extremists, or ideological zealots. That could explain how someone can go from being a racist to being a big fan of a heritage he only recently recently discovered. If you don't value who you are as a person, then you're more likely to fetishize a mythic ancestral past. That's one reason for why fascism appeals to defeated peoples.
Edit: By "people who make their identity all about their tribe" I'm referring to racial supremacists, religious fundamentalists, political extremists, or ideological zealots. That could explain how someone can go from being a racist to being a big fan of a heritage he only recently recently discovered. If you don't value who you are as a person, then you're more likely to fetishize a mythic ancestral past. That's one reason for why fascism appeals to defeated peoples.
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"whole hog into Jewish culture." Made me laugh.
Your comment though was less entertaining... You make it sound like a guys life journey happened over the course a fluff piece in a newspaper. whose yo say he didn't go through years of self discovery, thinking for himself and finding meaning in his rich cultural heritage... The only thing to take out of this story is that it's important to keep an open mind... You are advocating on making decisions and than never rethinking it in the future...
I am really glad you aren't (I hope) an anti Semite or racist because all the enlightenment in the world won't change your clearly well thought out thoughts and beliefs...
Your comment though was less entertaining... You make it sound like a guys life journey happened over the course a fluff piece in a newspaper. whose yo say he didn't go through years of self discovery, thinking for himself and finding meaning in his rich cultural heritage... The only thing to take out of this story is that it's important to keep an open mind... You are advocating on making decisions and than never rethinking it in the future...
I am really glad you aren't (I hope) an anti Semite or racist because all the enlightenment in the world won't change your clearly well thought out thoughts and beliefs...
Couldn't agree more. Good for him not hating jews anymore but it's switching your whole belief system due to finding out your heritage is just stupid. In this case it was for the better but more often than not is a recipe for disaster (both switching and being instilled from a young age applies here).
> how about thinking for yourself and not basing your thoughts and beliefs on who you think your ancestors were
We'd all live in a better place if more people did this...
> how about thinking for yourself and not basing your thoughts and beliefs on who you think your ancestors were
We'd all live in a better place if more people did this...
I found his transformation even more disturbing than his anti-Semitic view. Any semblance of intellectual reasoning he had to support his anti-Semitic view gave way to self-preservation and a need to not hate himself.
I wouldn't be surprised if even his most vocal opponents lost respect for him over this.
I wouldn't be surprised if even his most vocal opponents lost respect for him over this.
In general converts (though you could argue he wasn't a de jure convert to Judaism, he was for all intents and purposes one) can easily be super rigorous in the practice of their new faith, I've noticed. He's merely swapped one (distasteful) extreme for a much less distasteful extreme.
Though I suppose if you take your position to its logical extreme, everyone who is Jewish should question their Judaism, since its dependent on who your ancestors (specifically your female ancestors) were.
Is this really extreme? Relatively recently we managed to get rid of the idea that you should be a ruler of a country if your parents were rulers. Slightly later the idea that you should be stuck in the class you were born with. My generation got the idea that they don't have to be Christian just because ~99% of previous generation in the country declared themselves as such.
I'd be very happy if people made such choices on their own and questioned traditions in a logical and considerate way.
I'd be very happy if people made such choices on their own and questioned traditions in a logical and considerate way.
The thing is, encouraging people to question their Jewishness just because of happenstance of who their mom was, is going to be interpreted as anti-semitic.
Sure, but everything can be interpreted as pro/anti-semitic if it happens to affect Jews. I think this question becomes more logical and less emotional if you ask this about a made up group:
Joesons say that if your father was named Joe you belong to this group by default and whatever rules the group has written down apply to you and you should follow them. You'll be judged by them as a bad person if you don't. If you question your belonging to Joesons it will be interpreted as anti-joesonic.
Does it bother you that's you're labeled anti-joesonic in that case? Why would the situation be different for anti-semitic? Because of current number of Jews? Their history? Other reasons?
Joesons say that if your father was named Joe you belong to this group by default and whatever rules the group has written down apply to you and you should follow them. You'll be judged by them as a bad person if you don't. If you question your belonging to Joesons it will be interpreted as anti-joesonic.
Does it bother you that's you're labeled anti-joesonic in that case? Why would the situation be different for anti-semitic? Because of current number of Jews? Their history? Other reasons?
Jewish people should question the ideology and politics that the Jewish community promotes, just as Hungarians should question the ideology and politics of the people who claim to represent Hungarians.
This guy did a full about face from "Gypsies and Jews are destroying Hungary" to "Jews should be welcome everywhere, but we need to stop Muslim immigrants from destroying our tolerant open society".
This guy did a full about face from "Gypsies and Jews are destroying Hungary" to "Jews should be welcome everywhere, but we need to stop Muslim immigrants from destroying our tolerant open society".
"Gypsies and Jews are destroying Hungary" to "Jews should be welcome everywhere, but we need to stop Muslim immigrants from destroying our tolerant open society"
Family infighting sure does suck, doesn't it?
Family infighting sure does suck, doesn't it?
To question and not accept blindly is encouraged. Even the word "Israel" means to struggle with God.
The point wasn't really about judaism specifically, but yes, I agree everyone should give thought to who they are.
But then you find out you're atleast partly jewish
I can't find out that I'm partly Baptist for what should be obvious reasons.
I can't find out that I'm partly Baptist for what should be obvious reasons.
Members of these hate groups seem to have a profound lack of empathy for anyone not in whatever division they've decided was important.
I still think this guy lacks empathy. He was just literally put in the shoes of his targets: something most people can do without quite so big a shove.
I still think this guy lacks empathy. He was just literally put in the shoes of his targets: something most people can do without quite so big a shove.
Well, intelligent or not, I did like this quote of his: "Anti-Semitism doesn't need Jews, because its based on false premises. It is the projection of one's own fears, and lack of self esteem".
Sadly, hate for a group of people is one of the oldest tricks in the book to get support from people, especially people who are having hard times.
Sadly, hate for a group of people is one of the oldest tricks in the book to get support from people, especially people who are having hard times.
Hating others because of what they are or choose to believe is a waste of time if they are not harming you or others. People who find refuge in hate are small minded people. They are inefficient with their time and energy, they are far from rational.
I think the point of this article is precisely the opposite.
Writing off people who "find refuge in hate" as being "small-minded" is an easy temptation to give into. But, the subject of the article I think provides a very effective refutation of that. I don't know anything of the article's subject beyond what is written about him in this very article, but I imagine that he was raised into anti-Jewish sentiment, or grew up in an environment filled with it; that's the usual origin story for people who join hate movements, anyway.
I liken a hate movement as being more akin to a cult. Cult leaders, we can surely condemn; but is it really reasonable to permanently write someone off who's been indoctrinated from birth as being "small-minded"? Societal pressures are very powerful things.
Writing off people who "find refuge in hate" as being "small-minded" is an easy temptation to give into. But, the subject of the article I think provides a very effective refutation of that. I don't know anything of the article's subject beyond what is written about him in this very article, but I imagine that he was raised into anti-Jewish sentiment, or grew up in an environment filled with it; that's the usual origin story for people who join hate movements, anyway.
I liken a hate movement as being more akin to a cult. Cult leaders, we can surely condemn; but is it really reasonable to permanently write someone off who's been indoctrinated from birth as being "small-minded"? Societal pressures are very powerful things.
That's because cults are this weird thing in that someone has "salvation" or knows the secrets of "the universe". People get suckered in and empty their pocketbooks and life into someone/thing they hope is for real.
Hate movements are altogether a different thing. People usually start as individuals and then coalesce around the existing idea of "hate (insert unchangeable noun)". And then their meeting then induces even further bouts of rage with hate feeding on hate.
And yes, it is small mindedness. They can analyze why they hate when they choose. They do not. Cult group people are victims of extreme deceit, lying, and eventual control of their livelihood. At the endgame of a cult, the leader has near full control over everything: family, property, money.
Hate movements are altogether a different thing. People usually start as individuals and then coalesce around the existing idea of "hate (insert unchangeable noun)". And then their meeting then induces even further bouts of rage with hate feeding on hate.
And yes, it is small mindedness. They can analyze why they hate when they choose. They do not. Cult group people are victims of extreme deceit, lying, and eventual control of their livelihood. At the endgame of a cult, the leader has near full control over everything: family, property, money.
Does it really matter why they're so hateful?
Maybe it's understandable, and maybe you can have empathy for the person, but whether they're indoctrinated or chose it, their actions, and their results, remain largely the same.
Maybe it's understandable, and maybe you can have empathy for the person, but whether they're indoctrinated or chose it, their actions, and their results, remain largely the same.
>but is it really reasonable to permanently write someone off who's been indoctrinated from birth as being "small-minded"
Yes, they are still small-minded even if it was a result of the indoctrination.
Yes, they are still small-minded even if it was a result of the indoctrination.
Hating others Is a waste of time. It doesn't matter the reason.
What happened when the Jew found he was an anti-Semite?
http://brothernathanaelfoundation.org/
Ok, fine, you hate jews, whatever, that's your opinion.
But then you find out you're atleast partly jewish so you go whole hog into the jewish culture instead, and we're supposed to celebrate this?
how about thinking for yourself and not basing your thoughts and beliefs on who you think your ancestors were?