Things my male tech colleagues have actually said to me(the-toast.net)
the-toast.net
Things my male tech colleagues have actually said to me
http://the-toast.net/2015/04/01/things-male-tech-colleagues-have-actually-said-annotated/
18 comments
Thoughtless or not, these comments are exclusionary. Accidental sexism is still sexism.
Saying she should have responded to the people directly doesn't fly either. We don't know what she did in the moment, and we don't need to. This post describes a pattern of sexism, not the specifics of each case.
Saying she should have responded to the people directly doesn't fly either. We don't know what she did in the moment, and we don't need to. This post describes a pattern of sexism, not the specifics of each case.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4hqFvXm57M&t=1m23s
Christopher Hitchens: Free Speech and the Right to Offend
Christopher Hitchens: Free Speech and the Right to Offend
Most dudes aren't into tech/programming either, but you wouldn't expect someone to say it to you.
As abc_lisper implied, the more correct phrasing would have been, "Most people who are into this stuff are men."
Either way, it was a pointless thing to say, and I'm never surprised when women are offended by that kind of statement.
Either way, it was a pointless thing to say, and I'm never surprised when women are offended by that kind of statement.
You're right, if taken literally, but I'd bet that the person who said the remark just meant that far fewer women than men are into tech/programming.
Or they meant, "Hi! Mind if I backhandedly point out you don't belong here (again?)" Because, you know, that's how people interpret it when you remark upon their presence or skills. It shouldn't take much empathy to understand how peers repeatedly being surprised at your presence and/or skills would get old.
Understanding how others perceive your actions, not merely how you perceive them, is one of things that (should) distinguish adults from children.
Understanding how others perceive your actions, not merely how you perceive them, is one of things that (should) distinguish adults from children.
> Or they meant, "Hi! Mind if I backhandedly point out you don't belong here (again?)" Because, you know, that's how people interpret it when you remark upon their presence or skills.
I don't think you're right to say that there's a single way that people will interpret statements like that. Statements like that can be made out of genuine admiration. I have made such statements out of admiration, and statements like that have been made about me (about my ability to speak Mandarin, in China).
It seems to be a fact that women in tech are rare. I have found it to be true in my life that if you are rare or strange in some way, life will probably be harder for you in some ways, because it will take a while for other people to learn to deal with you. You can choose to look at it really specifically as "sexism", but I prefer to think about it as "people don't handle unfamiliar situations very well".
I don't think you're right to say that there's a single way that people will interpret statements like that. Statements like that can be made out of genuine admiration. I have made such statements out of admiration, and statements like that have been made about me (about my ability to speak Mandarin, in China).
It seems to be a fact that women in tech are rare. I have found it to be true in my life that if you are rare or strange in some way, life will probably be harder for you in some ways, because it will take a while for other people to learn to deal with you. You can choose to look at it really specifically as "sexism", but I prefer to think about it as "people don't handle unfamiliar situations very well".
Socrates is a Man.
Not all men are Socrates.
Indeed. Think of the equivalent statement: "Most dudes are such slobs, drunks, and lunkheads, they would suck at coding."
That's true, and inappropriate in the workplace.
That's true, and inappropriate in the workplace.
At the risk of being perceived as chauvinistic, which I absolutely don't consider myself having grown up in a household of capable women, this article seems to be overly sensitive. Some comments are clearly inappropriate and others are overly sensitive. Or at least would require context to take them as a negative.
In my sample of one I have never seen sexist behavior in tech world and typically expect more accepting behavior. Maybe my view is too limited? Have other people see this as endemic culture in scale?
In my sample of one I have never seen sexist behavior in tech world and typically expect more accepting behavior. Maybe my view is too limited? Have other people see this as endemic culture in scale?
Some of these are context-free. And, here, "context" might mean the person saying it, and what he's said before. It might be a hugely chauvinistic person saying some of these things, which colors the interpretation.
I think if the article suggests anything, it's that you think a bit harder about anything you say. It's also clearly for entertainment purposes as well, so there's probably some amount of exaggeration to the offense that she's taken with these comments.
I think if the article suggests anything, it's that you think a bit harder about anything you say. It's also clearly for entertainment purposes as well, so there's probably some amount of exaggeration to the offense that she's taken with these comments.
OMG; you won't believe what boys say when women are not around to hen peck them for political correctness; sometimes they say what they think! Unbelievable.
Perhaps you should consider that not everything you think is the most wonderful thing ever to happen to the human race. What you think and what is right are very different things. And if you happen to think stuff about other people that isn't nice, then you should make a concentrated effort to understand why and evaluate whether you should continue thinking that way. It's called self improvement.
Should we make a list of things men say to other men?
yes actually im curious.
I'll start with a few:
"How did you learn to do all this?!"
“It’s not ‘P.C.’ to say this, but…”
“Wow, you’re pretty strong!”
“You know about making coffee, right?”
“It doesn’t have all the features; this is the soccer mom version.”
“Let me know when you want to do that so I can help you. No offense, but you just don’t know enough about it to try it on your own.”
“See, that’s the great thing about you, I know I can tell ‘offensive’ jokes around you and you won’t care.”
I'm not really sure about the context she was told these things in, and perhaps they were said to her in a tone that was dripping with condescension, but most of these seem like fairly gender-neutral things to say. But it all depends on the tone, and I imagine since she wrote this article that she perceived the tone to patronizing because of her gender.
"How did you learn to do all this?!"
“It’s not ‘P.C.’ to say this, but…”
“Wow, you’re pretty strong!”
“You know about making coffee, right?”
“It doesn’t have all the features; this is the soccer mom version.”
“Let me know when you want to do that so I can help you. No offense, but you just don’t know enough about it to try it on your own.”
“See, that’s the great thing about you, I know I can tell ‘offensive’ jokes around you and you won’t care.”
I'm not really sure about the context she was told these things in, and perhaps they were said to her in a tone that was dripping with condescension, but most of these seem like fairly gender-neutral things to say. But it all depends on the tone, and I imagine since she wrote this article that she perceived the tone to patronizing because of her gender.
I personally think men should get angry and offended when people talk about your 'John Hancock'. How dare they use a male name to describe a signature.
We can lump it together with the idea behind the term 'soccer mom' and go all SJW on their asses.
We can lump it together with the idea behind the term 'soccer mom' and go all SJW on their asses.
> “Most girls aren’t into this kind of stuff.” No way, do you have the list? The list of things most girls are into? I’ve been trying to find that thing forever, can you forward it to me? You have my email. Thanks, man, you’re the best.
As near as I can tell, "most girls aren't into [tech/programming]" is as close to an uncontrovertible fact as you could ask for. The author seemed to try to change that by asking for an entire list .. with a wheelbarrow full of snark.
You can respond to the thoughtless comments of well-meaning, good-intentioned people in lots of ways. I think maybe "days/weeks/months later, on your blog, as opposed to the people who actually said the remarks, with heaps of snark, scorn, and condescension" is not one of the better ones.