Poll: What is the fuel for Hacker News' success?
11 comments
1) After a certain point you level max. There are loads of people here that I could learn a lot from, but the forum is greatly limited and becomes repetitive. The reason new members think that it's devolving is not that HN is changing, but that they themselves are learning.
That's a very interesting point, I never thought of it that way - but it feels right.
So what's the next level?
That's a very interesting point, I never thought of it that way - but it feels right.
So what's the next level?
Longer conversations. A comment thread trailing out to the end of the page kills conversations.
How to do this effectively is a largely unsolved problem. Blogs, forums, aggregators, etc each have their own strengths and weaknesses.
How to do this effectively is a largely unsolved problem. Blogs, forums, aggregators, etc each have their own strengths and weaknesses.
Where else am I going to find a pile of articles on math, Erlang, Lisp, etc? I've really expanded my horizons from my usual Enterprise Java experience and have developed a full website from CSS to the database to user management using a lot of what I've learned here.
PG's influence has drawn a lot of really bright people here. Sure there are silly comments, some articles that don't seem important to me, but overall I come here just about every day to see what new gem someone has found.
PG's influence has drawn a lot of really bright people here. Sure there are silly comments, some articles that don't seem important to me, but overall I come here just about every day to see what new gem someone has found.
PG's influence has drawn a lot of really bright people here.
Could you be specific about the influence? If there were no funding by PG et al., would this be the same kind of place?
Could you be specific about the influence? If there were no funding by PG et al., would this be the same kind of place?
I've heard of Y Combinator and Hacker News not because I'm seeking funding but because I've been reading Graham's essays ever since "A Plan for Spam" made the rounds in 2002. I actually am working at a startup now, but I wasn't when I started reading. In my case at least the cause and effect were just the opposite - pg and HN were part of what convinced me to seek out and join startups.
Let's look at a cross section of typical HN topics:
-Startups
-Web applications
-High-level, often functional programming languages with sometimes fringe appeal
Looks like almost a complete overlap with the topics PG writes about. I never used Digg or Reddit heavily, but on Slashdot the emphasis was more towards open source, science fiction, privacy, and YRO.
-Startups
-Web applications
-High-level, often functional programming languages with sometimes fringe appeal
Looks like almost a complete overlap with the topics PG writes about. I never used Digg or Reddit heavily, but on Slashdot the emphasis was more towards open source, science fiction, privacy, and YRO.
You're forgetting social structures and their intersection with institutional issues, which interest me. PG's view on those mostly relates to technology; mine mostly relate to other fields.
I think he influenced this community through his essays, and without them this place wouldn't exist.
I think the fuel is that people here tend to be pragmatic. They talk about technologies because lots of them use them to put food on the table(or plan to start doing that) so they think of them from a different perspective than the usual flamewar style.
I personally like to read comments from people who actually try to use different technologies in the real world(you could say to make money) rather than someone with a motivation to sell or evangelize it for whatever reason.
I'm kind of new here. I don't quite like any of the choices in the poll. I think the elements of HN's winningness are:
a) Paul Graham gets good PR and often says interesting things low on pure hype and high in thoughtful content (in a kind of feedback loop).
b) PG and YC are pretty good community builders, e.g., with Startup School.
c) There is money on the table but the table is only open to certain kinds of nerds / intellectuals.
So that selects who might come and read / contribute to HN. Then:
d) The software that runs the infrastructure has some pretty excellent design elements. It's minimalist and fast. The "new" firehose is perfect for coffee breaks. The point system, unlike most in the world, seems to give helpful feedback and keep "noise" to a minimum.
A lot of it is attitude, I think. There's PG's general attitude. There's the attitude of the types YC has a history of funding. These seem to me to set a kind of high bar for submissions and comments in terms of the quality of the informativeness of them and the good natured, let's all cooperate and marvel at stuff and learn kind of spirit of the thing.
e) It's a gift to the community that joins it rather than something that has to make money. It seems to display no greater (or lesser) ambition than to be good at being what it is.
-t
a) Paul Graham gets good PR and often says interesting things low on pure hype and high in thoughtful content (in a kind of feedback loop).
b) PG and YC are pretty good community builders, e.g., with Startup School.
c) There is money on the table but the table is only open to certain kinds of nerds / intellectuals.
So that selects who might come and read / contribute to HN. Then:
d) The software that runs the infrastructure has some pretty excellent design elements. It's minimalist and fast. The "new" firehose is perfect for coffee breaks. The point system, unlike most in the world, seems to give helpful feedback and keep "noise" to a minimum.
A lot of it is attitude, I think. There's PG's general attitude. There's the attitude of the types YC has a history of funding. These seem to me to set a kind of high bar for submissions and comments in terms of the quality of the informativeness of them and the good natured, let's all cooperate and marvel at stuff and learn kind of spirit of the thing.
e) It's a gift to the community that joins it rather than something that has to make money. It seems to display no greater (or lesser) ambition than to be good at being what it is.
-t
It's the daily Amichail poll. Yikes!
Could we add "provides a forum for talking with people doing what you want to do?"
Because I'm not here for YC, I'm not here to promote my startup, and I'm not here really to contribute. I'm here to bounce ideas off of people who are a few steps ahead of me in the startup game and to listen to the type of things they talk about.
Could we add "provides a forum for talking with people doing what you want to do?"
Because I'm not here for YC, I'm not here to promote my startup, and I'm not here really to contribute. I'm here to bounce ideas off of people who are a few steps ahead of me in the startup game and to listen to the type of things they talk about.
And I'd like to add, with the influx of so many good and kind people who are not really doing anything but dreaming about startups (or not even that), the signal-to-noise ratio has understandably decreased dramatically.
I hope I put that diplomatically enough.
I hope I put that diplomatically enough.
Though it's worth noting that Daniel has definitely contributed a whole lot more signal than noise :)
Thanks Tom. I appreciate it.
If I owe you anything for the plug? Just bill me. I won't pay it, but it might make you feel better sending the bill. :)
Be great if the crowd were smaller, but perhaps I have "leveled up" as another thread put it.
If I owe you anything for the plug? Just bill me. I won't pay it, but it might make you feel better sending the bill. :)
Be great if the crowd were smaller, but perhaps I have "leveled up" as another thread put it.
I have to admit I didn't notice it was you replying to yourself :-)
still it never hurts to suck up; even by accident. ESP if it's true.
still it never hurts to suck up; even by accident. ESP if it's true.
Hacker News' purpose is not only to bounce ideas off of other startup founders, so if you're reading that signal meter, it will naturally be a bit noisy.
From the guidelines:
On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.
From the guidelines:
On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.
I've been here more than 2 years. I hope I've read/seen the guidelines enough times by now.
The question was what was the reason for success. The only way I know to answer that question is to state why I visit, which is what all the options on the poll refer to -- why are you visiting? I imagine each person will respond with their own reason and hence the poll has some value. Because after all, the reason PG created HN and the reason people visit may be two completely different things :)
I've said many times that the board is Paul's and it's Paul's to decide what he wants on it. That's all fine and dandy, but it don't mean diddly squat for why or other folks visit. That's a completely different thing.
As a side note, one thing I've found from the very beginning is that anything you say can be misconstrued/misunderstood. In a small group, people get to know each other and are able to "fill in the blanks" whereas in a larger group this becomes unworkable. I know on a couple of occasions a year or so ago PG has expressed frustration with comments like "do I have to explain everything!" which I didn't understand at the time but do now. So you either write some super-long comment, trying to cover all the ways you might be misunderstood, or you end up having long threads of conversation which effectively end with "So sure, that's what I've been saying all along!"
Yet another force that drives the board towards quick one-liners.
The question was what was the reason for success. The only way I know to answer that question is to state why I visit, which is what all the options on the poll refer to -- why are you visiting? I imagine each person will respond with their own reason and hence the poll has some value. Because after all, the reason PG created HN and the reason people visit may be two completely different things :)
I've said many times that the board is Paul's and it's Paul's to decide what he wants on it. That's all fine and dandy, but it don't mean diddly squat for why or other folks visit. That's a completely different thing.
As a side note, one thing I've found from the very beginning is that anything you say can be misconstrued/misunderstood. In a small group, people get to know each other and are able to "fill in the blanks" whereas in a larger group this becomes unworkable. I know on a couple of occasions a year or so ago PG has expressed frustration with comments like "do I have to explain everything!" which I didn't understand at the time but do now. So you either write some super-long comment, trying to cover all the ways you might be misunderstood, or you end up having long threads of conversation which effectively end with "So sure, that's what I've been saying all along!"
Yet another force that drives the board towards quick one-liners.
Procrastination
- Keep a finger on the pulse on what's new
- grow old more slowly
- keep stimulating the mind to encourage new idea generation
- and of course - procrastinating
Thanks to HN, I now maintain only 10 rss feeds. :) and meet a lot of intelligent folks.
Hope it's not too late to add a few more choices:
- Learn new things.
- Engage in meaningful discussions.
- Meet like minded people.
- Find out what others think.I'm a reddit refugee.
Is HN a success? What is the measure of success?
The first: why did Hacker News start so successfully? 1) A built in group of YC founders to initially populate it. 2) A famous creator with a large following. 3) The strong encouragement of YC applicants to be involved. 4) A clearly defined purpose.
Second: why has it grown so well and continued in its success? 1) Clear guidelines for behavior. 2) Very involved moderation, but without opinion-based censorship. 3) A proliferation of YC-clones and a national increase of interest in entrepreneurship.
And then there's the final question: What's wrong with Hacker News? 1) After a certain point you level max. There are loads of people here that I could learn a lot from, but the forum is greatly limited and becomes repetitive. The reason new members think that it's devolving is not that HN is changing, but that they themselves are learning. 2) No discussion lasts longer than two days, and all discussions are based around other peoples' news--i.e. reactionay. 3) Thoughtful self-posts are discouraged both by the guidelines and by the unreadable light gray font.