Surviving Anxiety(theatlantic.com)
theatlantic.com
Surviving Anxiety
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/01/surviving_anxiety/355741/?single_page=true
17 comments
Honestly benzodiazepines should almost never be taken long-term for anxiety. They are fantastic drugs for short-term use, but in the long-term they tend to only make things worse.
You don't have to take them for very long to have withdrawal symptoms after stopping. The effects of stopping can include crippling anxiety. Not exactly the best thing for someone having bad anxiety in the first place.
You don't have to take them for very long to have withdrawal symptoms after stopping. The effects of stopping can include crippling anxiety. Not exactly the best thing for someone having bad anxiety in the first place.
There is a meta-study by Kripke which concludes that even very rare use of benzos triples your likelihood of death, controlling for other factors.
That was actually refuted by the guys Kripke cited:
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/264345529_Reply_to_E...
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/264345529_Reply_to_E...
That's interesting, thanks. Were you already familiar with the original study?
Absolutely. I myself use clonazapam (generic Klonopin) on an "as needed" basis, because you get tolerant to a particular dosage within a few weeks, and then you either increase step by step to the limits your doctor sets, or when you can mentally afford it, you wean yourself off, which is no fun at all. Good in its niche for anxiety, but not real solution.
I have eventually crippling genetic anxiety and "depression of a bi-polar nature" (it's most like bipolar depression, but I never go manic unless I'm prescribed the wrong drug (which is not uncommon in general)). A low dose of the now generic Seroquel, an atypical antiphychoic, was a life saver, without it I'd only get 4 hours of sleep a night when I need 8. I also take a stiff dose of now generic Lexapro, which is laser precise in its action.
It took years for me and my doctors to figure out this regimen that seems to be as good as possible unless and until an anti-anxiety wonder drug is developed.
I have eventually crippling genetic anxiety and "depression of a bi-polar nature" (it's most like bipolar depression, but I never go manic unless I'm prescribed the wrong drug (which is not uncommon in general)). A low dose of the now generic Seroquel, an atypical antiphychoic, was a life saver, without it I'd only get 4 hours of sleep a night when I need 8. I also take a stiff dose of now generic Lexapro, which is laser precise in its action.
It took years for me and my doctors to figure out this regimen that seems to be as good as possible unless and until an anti-anxiety wonder drug is developed.
I've been on meds for about 15 years, with one year off. The last 11 years I've been on 75mg of Effexor, and it's been a miracle drug for me, with the only side effect being a mildy suppressed libido. And 75mg is a pretty low dose, less than half what is normal for treating depression.
I'm not keen on being a slave to meds, so I'm currently weaning myself off 1mg a day (Effexor is notoriously bad to quit cold turkey). I did this a couple years ago and got to 30mg before I felt like I was experiencing anxious symptoms. These days I'm married, I meditate, and am all around less of a spazz.
"I'm so practiced at having them, nobody standing around me is ever aware that I'm having a sudden bout of tachycardia and growing concerns that my heart is about to explode in my chest"
Believe me, I recall that sensation, and I don't miss it. If I need to take meds for the rest of my life to avoid those types of experiences, so be it. When I was preoccupied with dealing with that level of anxiety, I was missing out on more than I realized.
I'm not keen on being a slave to meds, so I'm currently weaning myself off 1mg a day (Effexor is notoriously bad to quit cold turkey). I did this a couple years ago and got to 30mg before I felt like I was experiencing anxious symptoms. These days I'm married, I meditate, and am all around less of a spazz.
"I'm so practiced at having them, nobody standing around me is ever aware that I'm having a sudden bout of tachycardia and growing concerns that my heart is about to explode in my chest"
Believe me, I recall that sensation, and I don't miss it. If I need to take meds for the rest of my life to avoid those types of experiences, so be it. When I was preoccupied with dealing with that level of anxiety, I was missing out on more than I realized.
Effexor XR was very helpful for both myself and family members. Just because something doesn't work for you doesn't mean it should be "illegal".
MDs should warn patients about long-term benzo use. These drugs are only approved for a few weeks of use. I have talked with many MDs who are in denial about benzodiazepine addiction and adverse-effects. These MDs write prescriptions without properly informing their patients.
Not sure if you are replying to the right comment. Effexor XR is an SNRI, not a benzo.
For some people it is not only ineffective, it results in suicide. I was almost one of those people. I don't know if it should be illegal, but I'm just throwing that out there.
that's true of nearly every anti-depressant, though. it's called suicidal ideation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicidal_ideation#Prescription_...
Exactly. I have a friend who took another anti-depressant in a long search for one that worked that gave her suicidal ideation, which prompted her to go off it immediately.
As I explain the state of the art of these drugs to people, we know that if you poke at the brain with sticks who's ends are shaped in various ways, certain classes of effects will result. But everything beyond that is pure theory/search for a rational mechanism to e.g. explain this to people who aren't comfortable with pragmatic reality.
As I explain the state of the art of these drugs to people, we know that if you poke at the brain with sticks who's ends are shaped in various ways, certain classes of effects will result. But everything beyond that is pure theory/search for a rational mechanism to e.g. explain this to people who aren't comfortable with pragmatic reality.
Zoloft worked great for me with Kolonpin as a backup if I had an anxiety attack. But once Zoloft started working, I didn't have to use it.
I took Zoloft for about 8 months and then weaned off and I feel back to normal.
Pot and Kolonpin (and other benzos) are really only for temporary treatment. I'd recommend taking SSRIs but you have to wait for the 6 week ramp up period to see if it works. If it doesn't, you have to change SSRIs.
I took Zoloft for about 8 months and then weaned off and I feel back to normal.
Pot and Kolonpin (and other benzos) are really only for temporary treatment. I'd recommend taking SSRIs but you have to wait for the 6 week ramp up period to see if it works. If it doesn't, you have to change SSRIs.
Can you talk more about your experience with Effexor?
I was on 150mg a day (worked up to that from a low dosage).
After awhile, I was getting these insane headaches, like stabbed in the brain with a rusty knife type headache. Those lasted a few weeks.
And then came the brain shivers. Moving my eyes, or rapidly turning my head, would cause an electric shock sensation that, from what I've read, was similar to what people having a stroke experience. Like lightning in your head. It wasn't painful like the headaches, but it was well beyond annoying, if not completely frightening. I'd sometimes lose my balance and fall over.
I then made the mistake of quitting cold turkey. This was my first AD and my psychiatrist hadn't informed me of how bad an idea that was, and I was stupid for not reading the insert when taking it. After a few days of hell, I went back on it and tapered off.
I understand if it is effective for a lot of people, but I certainly know I'm not alone in my experiences with it.
Zoloft was much softer, but really didn't do much for me.
After awhile, I was getting these insane headaches, like stabbed in the brain with a rusty knife type headache. Those lasted a few weeks.
And then came the brain shivers. Moving my eyes, or rapidly turning my head, would cause an electric shock sensation that, from what I've read, was similar to what people having a stroke experience. Like lightning in your head. It wasn't painful like the headaches, but it was well beyond annoying, if not completely frightening. I'd sometimes lose my balance and fall over.
I then made the mistake of quitting cold turkey. This was my first AD and my psychiatrist hadn't informed me of how bad an idea that was, and I was stupid for not reading the insert when taking it. After a few days of hell, I went back on it and tapered off.
I understand if it is effective for a lot of people, but I certainly know I'm not alone in my experiences with it.
Zoloft was much softer, but really didn't do much for me.
As I like to say, cold turkey is for turkeys, but you self corrected quickly enough, and if you restarted at a lower dose then those two days of pain were not wasted. I'll sometimes trade off more pain for faster withdrawal in some stages when I wean myself off my benzodiazepam.
But there's no grand insight into your experience with Effexor, besides confirming that this isn't cookie cutter science/medicine, you try different drugs out until you find the best balance between side effects and desired action. And try to keep you shit together with what turn out to be bad choices, e.g. (generic) Paxil made me hypomanic.
But there's no grand insight into your experience with Effexor, besides confirming that this isn't cookie cutter science/medicine, you try different drugs out until you find the best balance between side effects and desired action. And try to keep you shit together with what turn out to be bad choices, e.g. (generic) Paxil made me hypomanic.
It would be great if there were better ways to get the active ingredients in marijuana into people without hoping the plant has them in the right ratios, doesn't have the chemicals that cause bad side-effects, and doesn't need to be smoked (which hurts the lungs) or eaten in a fatty solution (which causes weight gain, which hurts everything else).
With a name like "cbd" () I'm not sure if you're playing naive or if it's a coincidence :) but your concerns are exactly what the medical marijuana establishment has been able to address over the last decade now that it's legal in some states.
Simply extracting the active ingredients of medical grade by heating the cannabis in 1/4 teaspoon of olive oil will only give the patient about 9 calories.
() Cannabidiol (CBD) is one of at least 85 active cannabinoids identified in cannabis. It is a major phytocannabinoid, accounting for up to 40% of the plant's extract. (wikipedia)
Simply extracting the active ingredients of medical grade by heating the cannabis in 1/4 teaspoon of olive oil will only give the patient about 9 calories.
() Cannabidiol (CBD) is one of at least 85 active cannabinoids identified in cannabis. It is a major phytocannabinoid, accounting for up to 40% of the plant's extract. (wikipedia)
From what I've heard "vaporizing" allows you better control consumption without any (minimal) smoke.
Probably the safest and healthiest method to consume a desired amount.
Won't speak for other potentially negative effects, but there is no smoke (not even minimal) in vaporizing, as no combustion occurs.
That doesn't solve the problem of getting a known dose with minimal bad chemicals.
Known dose, sure. A lot of medical shops are posting independent lab measurements of all of the independent cannabinoids (most importantly: thc, cbd, cbn, cbg). So if you had a mg-accurate scale, and a bit of math, and assuming 100% uptake in a vaporizer, that's nearly a solved problem. With vaporizing the dried flowers, there is literally nothing else in there -- it's not an extract or anything where there could be latent glycols or butane or whatever.
So really, the problem _is_ solved :) It's just that the threshold and effective doses for cannabis mean that mg-specific dosing really isn't that useful.
So really, the problem _is_ solved :) It's just that the threshold and effective doses for cannabis mean that mg-specific dosing really isn't that useful.
Weed (because it has no real downsides to me personally) and once-a-year DXM (for depersonalisation) were mildly effective, but the clincher has been learning about buddhism / the tao. I'm not talking about any kind of spiritual practice, but moreso a change in perspective that simply isn't expressed by anyone around me. Doing the unambiguously right thing in the best way in any circumstance with no effort or conscious thought is powerful. I started with the question "How do I talk to people correctly?" and found "right speech" and went from there. Nearly two years later I can say it's been transformational at lowering the anxiety that I once had. Automatic negative thoughts happen infrequently instead of constantly. Though, this is not setting me up to be rich and with lots of worldly possessions or friends, but I'm alright with that.
edit: disappointing that all of the replies are about the first word in this post, but I kind of asked for it. Talk about whatever you want to talk about.
edit: disappointing that all of the replies are about the first word in this post, but I kind of asked for it. Talk about whatever you want to talk about.
> Weed (because it has no real downsides)
Cannabis can for some users have severe downsides. We don't necessarily know in advance which those users are. People who have a diagnosed severe mental illness are probably in that group. Thus, is someone with strong anxiety a person who should avoid cannabis because it would exacerbate their anxiety; or trigger an underlying psychosis? Or are they a person who would benefit from canabis?
I am strongly in favour of legalising cannabis but I find it frustrating when people claim it has no downsides.
Cannabis can for some users have severe downsides. We don't necessarily know in advance which those users are. People who have a diagnosed severe mental illness are probably in that group. Thus, is someone with strong anxiety a person who should avoid cannabis because it would exacerbate their anxiety; or trigger an underlying psychosis? Or are they a person who would benefit from canabis?
I am strongly in favour of legalising cannabis but I find it frustrating when people claim it has no downsides.
I'm speaking from personal anecdotes only. The only downside to me is that it suppresses REM sleep, leading to dreamless sleep. This is kind of boring. It's also more difficult to learn something for the first time while high. Don't go to a poker game high and try to learn the game, for example. Psychosis? Not a factor for me, so I'm not attempting to say one thing about it. Extrinsically, there's all of the legal/job related annoyances in additional to dealing with losers who won't do anything without it.
Don't worry, after a while (assuming you smoke heavily) you'll have crazy-ass dreams all the time, whether you want them or not. Smoke will buy you 90 minutes of peaceful sleep tops. It's not a long-term insomnia medication.
And once it stops working for insomnia, get ready for some restless limbs. That was my experience, at least. I've found melatonin and a tea with valerian root, chamomile, and a few other extracts (called sleepytime tea) works much better.
It doesn't cause schizophrenia, it causes willingness to be vocal about schizophrenia.
It's actually a useful tool for that, assuming the person isn't an insanely negative environment where they lock them up after they become vocal.
It's actually a useful tool for that, assuming the person isn't an insanely negative environment where they lock them up after they become vocal.
> (because it has no real downsides)
Ohhh boy. On this throwaway to say otherwise. I'm sorry if this post is a bit incoherent because I'm horribly tired, still getting past the nuts insomnia phase of quitting.
I've smoked a lot of weed. Started smoking in high school, heavily when I was 19 until a couple weeks ago (I'm 26 now). About an ounce a month over that time, sometimes two ounces. First it was for insomnia, then it was supposedly for my digestive health (actually, quitting gives you gas and loose stool), then for anxiety, sometimes for aches and pains (which were made worse because of poor posture -- it is a muscle relaxant, after all). At the end it was for my paranoia, so to speak -- I was convinced I had cancer setting into my guts and that it was the weed that was keeping it in remission. They did some experiment where this worked with rats, right?
Right now it seems like there are no side effects. Trust me, there will be. Your memory will turn to shit and you won't be able to follow a conversation. You will try to remember a number and forget it moments later. You'll be slow to recall your own zip code. This doesn't just happen when you're high, it'll happen the day after smoking also. Basically, if you're feeling "all right," you'll have these effects too.
You'll become dull. You'll sit around with peers and have nothing to talk about, just a stupid smile. Now, you'll feel totally at peace, but you're a basically a human blob, incapable of really interesting thought.
Your thoughts themselves will become lazy, less rigorous. You'll think you're being "chill" when you quit a debate, but really, your mind is just working much slower.
You'll edit code pointlessly, shuffling stuff around.
It's not all bad -- the ability to come up with really funny insights doesn't go away, so you can make people laugh. But there's no depth to anything you do.
Heavy smoking makes you shiftless too, and easy to abuse. It let me stay in an abusive marriage for a few years, fun (I sort of knew this but was too embarrassed to leave this woman I'd just married, so I smoked more to keep my sanity). Only when I tried to slow down smoking for a little while did I realize how bad things had gotten. Whether or not you believe it's happening, people will try to take advantage of you, if you're worth taking advantage of.
Keep in mind I'm not talking about "smoking every now and then when I feel bad," I'm talking about daily use: A smoke in the bathroom before you shower for work and constant smoking every night. Lunch break smoke if you're a real go-getter. Maybe smoking on your commute. Always making sure you have a good bit of bud or hash oil before you go on a trip anywhere (I remember smoking in a company's garage in SF after a tech meetup, and also regularly taking smoke breaks in my employer's garage in a less tolerant state).
In this industry, people will let you get away with it if you're any good, because the fact is that a half-baked person who can still write decent, reliable code is 10x as valuable as an regular guy with no skill/aptitude/motivation. And as you might have noticed, most people don't take to this stuff all that well, which is why (compared to other working schlubs) we get paid pretty well.
Also, YMMV, but it completely robbed me of my sex life when sober because I'd orgasm so fast.
It took several years of heavy, daily smoking for these serious symptoms to fully manifest into what seemed an indomitable form, probably when I was 24-25. I know for sure that heavy daily smoking of high-grade buds in California took it to the next level.
I had to stop smoking. I realized how stupid I'd become, even if I was raking in the dollars (not doing consultant BS either, senior developer stuff at a good tech company and respected by my peers).
Holy crap, I'd forgotten how smart I was. Suddenly I could remember everything. Issue numbers. My train number. Dates, times, places. I could remember things (addresses and stuff) I learned when stoned, knowledge I didn't know was in my head. Weird!
Now I can't imagine smoking again, except rarely with friends. Having my brain back is so wonderful. Feel free to ask my questions, though I probably covered the uninteresting life of a stoner programmer pretty well here.
Ohhh boy. On this throwaway to say otherwise. I'm sorry if this post is a bit incoherent because I'm horribly tired, still getting past the nuts insomnia phase of quitting.
I've smoked a lot of weed. Started smoking in high school, heavily when I was 19 until a couple weeks ago (I'm 26 now). About an ounce a month over that time, sometimes two ounces. First it was for insomnia, then it was supposedly for my digestive health (actually, quitting gives you gas and loose stool), then for anxiety, sometimes for aches and pains (which were made worse because of poor posture -- it is a muscle relaxant, after all). At the end it was for my paranoia, so to speak -- I was convinced I had cancer setting into my guts and that it was the weed that was keeping it in remission. They did some experiment where this worked with rats, right?
Right now it seems like there are no side effects. Trust me, there will be. Your memory will turn to shit and you won't be able to follow a conversation. You will try to remember a number and forget it moments later. You'll be slow to recall your own zip code. This doesn't just happen when you're high, it'll happen the day after smoking also. Basically, if you're feeling "all right," you'll have these effects too.
You'll become dull. You'll sit around with peers and have nothing to talk about, just a stupid smile. Now, you'll feel totally at peace, but you're a basically a human blob, incapable of really interesting thought.
Your thoughts themselves will become lazy, less rigorous. You'll think you're being "chill" when you quit a debate, but really, your mind is just working much slower.
You'll edit code pointlessly, shuffling stuff around.
It's not all bad -- the ability to come up with really funny insights doesn't go away, so you can make people laugh. But there's no depth to anything you do.
Heavy smoking makes you shiftless too, and easy to abuse. It let me stay in an abusive marriage for a few years, fun (I sort of knew this but was too embarrassed to leave this woman I'd just married, so I smoked more to keep my sanity). Only when I tried to slow down smoking for a little while did I realize how bad things had gotten. Whether or not you believe it's happening, people will try to take advantage of you, if you're worth taking advantage of.
Keep in mind I'm not talking about "smoking every now and then when I feel bad," I'm talking about daily use: A smoke in the bathroom before you shower for work and constant smoking every night. Lunch break smoke if you're a real go-getter. Maybe smoking on your commute. Always making sure you have a good bit of bud or hash oil before you go on a trip anywhere (I remember smoking in a company's garage in SF after a tech meetup, and also regularly taking smoke breaks in my employer's garage in a less tolerant state).
In this industry, people will let you get away with it if you're any good, because the fact is that a half-baked person who can still write decent, reliable code is 10x as valuable as an regular guy with no skill/aptitude/motivation. And as you might have noticed, most people don't take to this stuff all that well, which is why (compared to other working schlubs) we get paid pretty well.
Also, YMMV, but it completely robbed me of my sex life when sober because I'd orgasm so fast.
It took several years of heavy, daily smoking for these serious symptoms to fully manifest into what seemed an indomitable form, probably when I was 24-25. I know for sure that heavy daily smoking of high-grade buds in California took it to the next level.
I had to stop smoking. I realized how stupid I'd become, even if I was raking in the dollars (not doing consultant BS either, senior developer stuff at a good tech company and respected by my peers).
Holy crap, I'd forgotten how smart I was. Suddenly I could remember everything. Issue numbers. My train number. Dates, times, places. I could remember things (addresses and stuff) I learned when stoned, knowledge I didn't know was in my head. Weird!
Now I can't imagine smoking again, except rarely with friends. Having my brain back is so wonderful. Feel free to ask my questions, though I probably covered the uninteresting life of a stoner programmer pretty well here.
I have a question for you actually. I have noticed things very similar to what you talk about after a few years of regular smoking. I started at 19 and I'm 21 now (edit, 22, forgot my own age). I used to evangelize marijuana since it has no overt medical side effects, but I think I'm coming to realize what you are talking about -- it kinda does make you stupid, like my Mom warned me about years ago. And not just when you're high, either.
I try to mitigate the negative effects by alternating -- a month of daily smoking, then a month off. If I have any in the house, I can't help myself, so I moderate the quantities I buy.
But, I have started to have episodes around things like locked doors. Did I lock the door -- or even close it? It's like I can't trust my previous decision and I have to go check again. Sometimes I will check a door five times in an hour. It's basically neurotic. If I don't check, I feel very nervous. I think this might be related to marijuana since it seems to fall into the category of absentminded behavior. It's like I am not present in reality enough to have faith in my past decisions.
I definitely don't feel stupid, but I do feel unfocused -- you could say my thoughts are accurate but not very precise. Or put in other terms, I feel like my of my intellectual powers are locked up because it feels to difficult to think about hard things.
Anyway, I was wondering how long you feel like it took you to "get smart again", as it were. Should a month be long enough to return to a baseline state of mind? Or should I try a multiple month T break to see if it has a big impact? (If it did, I would quit).
I try to mitigate the negative effects by alternating -- a month of daily smoking, then a month off. If I have any in the house, I can't help myself, so I moderate the quantities I buy.
But, I have started to have episodes around things like locked doors. Did I lock the door -- or even close it? It's like I can't trust my previous decision and I have to go check again. Sometimes I will check a door five times in an hour. It's basically neurotic. If I don't check, I feel very nervous. I think this might be related to marijuana since it seems to fall into the category of absentminded behavior. It's like I am not present in reality enough to have faith in my past decisions.
I definitely don't feel stupid, but I do feel unfocused -- you could say my thoughts are accurate but not very precise. Or put in other terms, I feel like my of my intellectual powers are locked up because it feels to difficult to think about hard things.
Anyway, I was wondering how long you feel like it took you to "get smart again", as it were. Should a month be long enough to return to a baseline state of mind? Or should I try a multiple month T break to see if it has a big impact? (If it did, I would quit).
Haha, that hits home hard. Locking my deadbolt and worrying that I didn't as I walked through the apartment lobby. Locking my car and worrying that I didn't while I'm still looking at my car.
The good news is that when I stopped, my brain came back almost immediately, and in force. Basically as soon as I could tell that I hadn't recently smoked. A few days, tops.
What helped me to quit the most actually was buying some horrid weed from my guy that I still insisted on smoking. The stuff was low-grade enough that I was going through slow withdrawal even during the weeks when I was smoking it. And smoking it was no fun. I know for sure that my symptoms this time around pale in comparison to the times in the past when I briefly quit (for a drug test or whatever) after smoking that bubonic chronic (SFV OG, GSC and such).
The good news is that when I stopped, my brain came back almost immediately, and in force. Basically as soon as I could tell that I hadn't recently smoked. A few days, tops.
What helped me to quit the most actually was buying some horrid weed from my guy that I still insisted on smoking. The stuff was low-grade enough that I was going through slow withdrawal even during the weeks when I was smoking it. And smoking it was no fun. I know for sure that my symptoms this time around pale in comparison to the times in the past when I briefly quit (for a drug test or whatever) after smoking that bubonic chronic (SFV OG, GSC and such).
Wow, that sounds exactly like what I do. I can stare at something without really seeing it, the information goes in one eye and out the other. It's like I have to "try to see it" a couple times.
Just hearing about someone else having the same symptoms from marijuana actually helps clarify things for me. I also have some other anxiety related issues so it can be difficult for me to disentangle what is my problem vs. a substance causing some effect, but it sounds like in this case it might actually be the ol' cannabanoids doing work on my body chemistry.
Just hearing about someone else having the same symptoms from marijuana actually helps clarify things for me. I also have some other anxiety related issues so it can be difficult for me to disentangle what is my problem vs. a substance causing some effect, but it sounds like in this case it might actually be the ol' cannabanoids doing work on my body chemistry.
The common thing to point out on these kinds of anecdotes are the "started at 1# and I'm 2# now" part of it. I started at 23! Didn't even bother drinking until 21! This is what all the studies are about and usually are conclusive about - the brain is still forming in these years, and you really should wait. (Although, in my opinion, the legal age for both should be 18). My advice for the "did I lock the door" / "did I leave the coffee maker on" issues is this: create habits and follow them. Unplug the coffee maker. Either the door is wide open, or it is locked. Either your keys are in the spot where the keys always are, or they are in your pocket. You have to be able to trust yourself.
Habits actually make it worse for me because I go through on autopilot and then I have no way to confirm mentally if I skipped a step or not.
What helps me the most is to actually make a mnemonic to remember that I did something when I did it, by closely paying attention to my specific actions. For example, if I lock the door, I will specifically check my watch and note the date and time and that yes, I did just lock my door right then. I find I can get relief by referencing that timestamped memory, whereas with truly habitual behavior I still need to double check. Using a mental checklist or something would probably be a good option too, but then I have to compose the checklists beforehand and it's a pain.
I do think there is something to be said for the age question, although starting at 19, I think I was passed the main formative period. Actually I think the most important thing is the # of years, since I would not be saying these things after 1 or even 2 years of smoking, but only now almost 3 years later am I starting to get concerned.
What helps me the most is to actually make a mnemonic to remember that I did something when I did it, by closely paying attention to my specific actions. For example, if I lock the door, I will specifically check my watch and note the date and time and that yes, I did just lock my door right then. I find I can get relief by referencing that timestamped memory, whereas with truly habitual behavior I still need to double check. Using a mental checklist or something would probably be a good option too, but then I have to compose the checklists beforehand and it's a pain.
I do think there is something to be said for the age question, although starting at 19, I think I was passed the main formative period. Actually I think the most important thing is the # of years, since I would not be saying these things after 1 or even 2 years of smoking, but only now almost 3 years later am I starting to get concerned.
>at 19, I think I was passed the main formative period.
Not in the slightest. That doesn't happen until 25. :)
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1411647...
Not in the slightest. That doesn't happen until 25. :)
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1411647...
Here's another anecdote, for what it's worth:
I started smoking at age 21, when I graduated college a year early, and smoked nonstop after graduation until age 23.
At that point, my life basically fell apart, and it was definitely related to being high 24/7.
So I quit cold turkey. By age 25, I had started my own web business that was very successful. SaaS business, recurring revenue, amazing growth, etc. I was driving a fancy car, living in Palo Alto, and was on track to being a millionaire by my late 20's, almost guaranteed, just based on the growth of the business. I was so financially secure that I even got married and had a kid very young.
Of course, running the business (plus starting a business at the same time) was stressful. There were customers, partners, employees, etc., to deal with. And a toddler, and new wife.
I had very little support or mentors. None of my family or friends were entrepreneurs and I had no connections.
Eventually, I started getting migraine headaches on a regular basis. Around age 27. I convinced myself that smoking marijuana again was a logical thing to do, despite the fact that it had literally destroyed my life after college, and I had to rebuild my life back up again already.
I was smoking large quantities of high grade stuff. I had a lot of money from my business, so I went all out. Oils, kiefs, fancy bongs, the whole deal.
Being high all day, I started making terrible decisions and being really reckless with my business.
Long story short: within 12 months I went from a highly profitable, debt-free, lifestyle business that allowed me to effortlessly live in the heart of Silicon Valley (out of choice -- I could have lived anywhere I wanted to), to having a nervous breakdown, bankrupting my business, and ending up $250,000 in debt.
Today, I am 34. I am still paying off the debt from that mistake. I have no business, and work a "shitty" (meaning, comfortable six figures, but no real ownership) job as a software engineer. I am regularly depressed when I think about what I lost, and how foolish I was to lose it.
This is an extreme case, and of course only an anecdote. But it's pretty black and white: smoking a lot of marijuana all the time made me dumb and caused me to make really bad decisions.
As for weaning off of marijuana and its resultant impact on the sharpness of mind:
I found that after 3 days, there is a very noticeable difference. You are probably about 70-90% recovered at that point. But it takes a good 6-12 months to get that back that really sharp "edge" that you once had, the remaining 10-30%.
But, as I hope I have related in this story, it's not just about getting back the intelligence and sharpness of mind. It's that even when you get that stuff back, you will still be left with the consequences of whatever dumb shit you did while living your life high all the time.
I started smoking at age 21, when I graduated college a year early, and smoked nonstop after graduation until age 23.
At that point, my life basically fell apart, and it was definitely related to being high 24/7.
So I quit cold turkey. By age 25, I had started my own web business that was very successful. SaaS business, recurring revenue, amazing growth, etc. I was driving a fancy car, living in Palo Alto, and was on track to being a millionaire by my late 20's, almost guaranteed, just based on the growth of the business. I was so financially secure that I even got married and had a kid very young.
Of course, running the business (plus starting a business at the same time) was stressful. There were customers, partners, employees, etc., to deal with. And a toddler, and new wife.
I had very little support or mentors. None of my family or friends were entrepreneurs and I had no connections.
Eventually, I started getting migraine headaches on a regular basis. Around age 27. I convinced myself that smoking marijuana again was a logical thing to do, despite the fact that it had literally destroyed my life after college, and I had to rebuild my life back up again already.
I was smoking large quantities of high grade stuff. I had a lot of money from my business, so I went all out. Oils, kiefs, fancy bongs, the whole deal.
Being high all day, I started making terrible decisions and being really reckless with my business.
Long story short: within 12 months I went from a highly profitable, debt-free, lifestyle business that allowed me to effortlessly live in the heart of Silicon Valley (out of choice -- I could have lived anywhere I wanted to), to having a nervous breakdown, bankrupting my business, and ending up $250,000 in debt.
Today, I am 34. I am still paying off the debt from that mistake. I have no business, and work a "shitty" (meaning, comfortable six figures, but no real ownership) job as a software engineer. I am regularly depressed when I think about what I lost, and how foolish I was to lose it.
This is an extreme case, and of course only an anecdote. But it's pretty black and white: smoking a lot of marijuana all the time made me dumb and caused me to make really bad decisions.
As for weaning off of marijuana and its resultant impact on the sharpness of mind:
I found that after 3 days, there is a very noticeable difference. You are probably about 70-90% recovered at that point. But it takes a good 6-12 months to get that back that really sharp "edge" that you once had, the remaining 10-30%.
But, as I hope I have related in this story, it's not just about getting back the intelligence and sharpness of mind. It's that even when you get that stuff back, you will still be left with the consequences of whatever dumb shit you did while living your life high all the time.
That sucks dude, but it's also hilarious. I can't believe you would try to make business decisions while being high. I can imagine going to work high as shit, for starters, I would forget everyone's names, and then I would probably forget everything else too. But I can definitely imagine how you could talk yourself into it especially if you are self employed.
I think hearing these stories is really interesting, since I can relate them to my own experience. Thanks for sharing! I guess I should start working on getting that "edge" back.
I think hearing these stories is really interesting, since I can relate them to my own experience. Thanks for sharing! I guess I should start working on getting that "edge" back.
You're dropping real facts, no one should argue against these very real risks, and I do know people to whom this is absolutely accurate. I can see this playing out, which is why I don't follow through with it. Myself, I haven't smoked in over a month, because I can take it or leave it. I've worked with the "smoke before-work, at-lunch, after-work" types. I've been interviewed by people who later smoked with me, because everyone does it. It makes you delusional, it makes you lazy, true, true. I've git clone'd code and then edited code formatting pointlessly, just like you. And yet, still better than most of them, somehow. Just walk through the door and, if you can, leave the door behind.
Right, I'm presuming that somebody who really tries to self-medicate with cannabis for anxiety is doing so on a daily basis with high-grade bud.
Funny. Your weed-smoking stage of life describes current me to a dot. Except I don't smoke. :(
For me, the most difficult part of conquering anxiety is the physical symptoms. Stomach duress, stress, sweating, and bracing for the next wave of anxiety. These symptoms feed into each other and can set off a new attack or make an existing one worse.
I've found Hope and Help for Your Nerves by Claire Weeks to be the most helpful book on dealing with the physical symptoms. Once you're able to remove or at least tame the physical aspect you can better fight the mental manifestation.
This book literally changed my life and I'd recommend that you don't hesitate to check it out if you suffer from anxiety in any capacity.
http://www.amazon.com/Hope-Help-Nerves-Claire-Weekes/dp/0451...
I've found Hope and Help for Your Nerves by Claire Weeks to be the most helpful book on dealing with the physical symptoms. Once you're able to remove or at least tame the physical aspect you can better fight the mental manifestation.
This book literally changed my life and I'd recommend that you don't hesitate to check it out if you suffer from anxiety in any capacity.
http://www.amazon.com/Hope-Help-Nerves-Claire-Weekes/dp/0451...
I had been feeling a little blue the past few months. I didn't want to take an anti-depressant (too heavy and too many side effects).
I read this book : http://www.amazon.com/The-Mood-Cure-Program-Emotions-Today/d...
She basically advocates for the supplements 5htp and St John's Wort taken three times a day (empty stomach ideally).
Her theory is that a lot of our depressive moods are due to nutritional deficiencies and that the amino acids that help with serotonin production are easily depleted (via drinking coffee, alcohol, aspartame, stresses, and lack of sleep).
Nonetheless, I am feeling better, and feeling like I am making incremental improvements each week. Much less anxiety.
No side effects to report (sexual, clouded brain syndrome).
St John's Wort: http://examine.com/supplements/Hypericum+perforatum/
5-HTP http://examine.com/supplements/5-HTP/
L-Tyrosene is also advocated in the book as a motivational booster (increases dopamine). It's effects feel like a strong cup of coffee.
I'm not in any way connected to this book or these supplements; just happy to share something that worked for me regarding depression and anxiety.
I read this book : http://www.amazon.com/The-Mood-Cure-Program-Emotions-Today/d...
She basically advocates for the supplements 5htp and St John's Wort taken three times a day (empty stomach ideally).
Her theory is that a lot of our depressive moods are due to nutritional deficiencies and that the amino acids that help with serotonin production are easily depleted (via drinking coffee, alcohol, aspartame, stresses, and lack of sleep).
Nonetheless, I am feeling better, and feeling like I am making incremental improvements each week. Much less anxiety.
No side effects to report (sexual, clouded brain syndrome).
St John's Wort: http://examine.com/supplements/Hypericum+perforatum/
5-HTP http://examine.com/supplements/5-HTP/
L-Tyrosene is also advocated in the book as a motivational booster (increases dopamine). It's effects feel like a strong cup of coffee.
I'm not in any way connected to this book or these supplements; just happy to share something that worked for me regarding depression and anxiety.
Why the downvote?
I didn't downvote you but supplements are far from risk free. Also in the US you could be ingesting almost anything when you buy a supplement, thats how unregulated the industry is. you need to talk to your doc before starting any supplements. Especially if you are on medication.
Because you're effectively taking unregulated medicines with similar mechanisms to standard anti-depressants?
So because they could be dangerous, I shouldn't post the information?
I included the links to examine.com which gives a descent meta analysis of the research behind each of them. Both of them show promising research results.
Safety is never guaranteed. Certainly I don't have to spell this out for the HN audience?
Do your own research. Weigh the risks. If the safety profile is to your liking, then find a trusted supplier and ramp up slowly. Stop immediately if any undesirable effects are noticed.
I included the links to examine.com which gives a descent meta analysis of the research behind each of them. Both of them show promising research results.
Safety is never guaranteed. Certainly I don't have to spell this out for the HN audience?
Do your own research. Weigh the risks. If the safety profile is to your liking, then find a trusted supplier and ramp up slowly. Stop immediately if any undesirable effects are noticed.
>Stop immediately if any undesirable effects are noticed.
Probably not the best idea since if you are taking something that actually increases serotonin you will give yourself antidepressant discontinuation syndrome by stopping abruptly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antidepressant_discontinuation_...
Probably not the best idea since if you are taking something that actually increases serotonin you will give yourself antidepressant discontinuation syndrome by stopping abruptly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antidepressant_discontinuation_...
You're exhausting to discuss with, even over the Internet. 300mg is a very normal dose. Serotonin syndrome isn't going to be induced with such conservative dosing.
....?
I never said anything about serotonin syndrome...?? ...
Furthermore, I wasn't even the original GP, so how am I "exhausting?" The only thing I said was supplements are basically unregulated (theres a good chance your bottle of St Johns Wort is actually rice powder * ) and talk to your doctor before taking supplement and before stopping supplements abruptly. Trust me, antidepressant discontinuation syndrome is complete HELL.
* http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/11/05/science/herbal-suppleme...
I never said anything about serotonin syndrome...?? ...
Furthermore, I wasn't even the original GP, so how am I "exhausting?" The only thing I said was supplements are basically unregulated (theres a good chance your bottle of St Johns Wort is actually rice powder * ) and talk to your doctor before taking supplement and before stopping supplements abruptly. Trust me, antidepressant discontinuation syndrome is complete HELL.
* http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/11/05/science/herbal-suppleme...
not sure (wasn't me) but I have had very negative results with St John's wort. Definitely made my anxiety far worse when I tried it. Different responses... the fact that it had an effect is at least some indication that it's playing with the right systems.
I had anxiety years ago, with panic attacks whenever I was on a train for more than a few minutes. I was also constantly afraid of having contracted fatal diseases.
No more. I did a lot of different probiotics (Mutaflor, some generic L-bacillus stuff, homemade kefir, Kombucha,...) in the last years, and anxiety has completely gone away. Here is some possible explanation: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/reading-between-the-head...
I know such comments are often downvoted, so please drop a comment if you do, and contribute.
No more. I did a lot of different probiotics (Mutaflor, some generic L-bacillus stuff, homemade kefir, Kombucha,...) in the last years, and anxiety has completely gone away. Here is some possible explanation: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/reading-between-the-head...
I know such comments are often downvoted, so please drop a comment if you do, and contribute.
Not sure if related, but my severe social anxiety started after I had a flu (as a kid, 2 weeks in bed) and was probably treated with antibiotics. I've just recently realized that there could be a connection. Haven't got rid of it.
Edit: Just found this: http://www.scribd.com/doc/28819342/Experimental-Treatment-fo... I'm going to try it and report back.
Edit: Just found this: http://www.scribd.com/doc/28819342/Experimental-Treatment-fo... I'm going to try it and report back.
Sure - I had antibiotics treatment early in life and had chronic diarrhea at age 3. Later, I was an outsider as a kid, and had difficulty making eye contact. There might be a connection.
Definitely experiment with various probiotics. I ended up with this http://www.vrp.com/biopro-240-caps which seems to help my iffy digestion, and don't seem to hurt my anxiety and depression.
Your gut bacteria are important, why we e.g. don't need Vitamin K supplements, so I at least am not surprised by hints they also have effects on mood and the like.
Your gut bacteria are important, why we e.g. don't need Vitamin K supplements, so I at least am not surprised by hints they also have effects on mood and the like.
It would be great if you can provide a shopping list. I'd like to try it.
Sure! Mutaflor is quite expensive, and it has to be kept in the fridge. I ordered it in Germany, but it should be available internationally, perhaps with other brand names. It's one of the few bacterial strains that is proven to help Ulverative Colitis (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutaflor).
Homemade Kefir and Water Kefir are made by fermenting milk or sugarwater. It's a wild ferment, so it's critical that the culture you get on eBay or craigslist is in a good state. So it's advisable to have a hard look and smell at the kefir you are producing. Keeping the kefir acidic is crucial so the good strains (L-Bacilli and certain funghi) can outcrowd the strains you don't want in there. Kombucha works similarly, but I haven't used if for long.
While I tried lots of things, milk and Water Kefir worked best by far. I can't remember what L-Bacilli supplements I tested, but I got the impression that they did not do as much as Mutaflor or the Kefir. But the number of bacteria in Kefir is ridiculously higher than in most supplements, so that might be the reason.
Almost forgot.. I have low stomach acid, so I regularly drink (unpasteurized, unfiltered) apple cider vinegar. This might prevent "bad" strains from getting a grip, but I can only speculate.
Homemade Kefir and Water Kefir are made by fermenting milk or sugarwater. It's a wild ferment, so it's critical that the culture you get on eBay or craigslist is in a good state. So it's advisable to have a hard look and smell at the kefir you are producing. Keeping the kefir acidic is crucial so the good strains (L-Bacilli and certain funghi) can outcrowd the strains you don't want in there. Kombucha works similarly, but I haven't used if for long.
While I tried lots of things, milk and Water Kefir worked best by far. I can't remember what L-Bacilli supplements I tested, but I got the impression that they did not do as much as Mutaflor or the Kefir. But the number of bacteria in Kefir is ridiculously higher than in most supplements, so that might be the reason.
Almost forgot.. I have low stomach acid, so I regularly drink (unpasteurized, unfiltered) apple cider vinegar. This might prevent "bad" strains from getting a grip, but I can only speculate.
Would you go into more detail about this? I recently developed an annoying level of anxiety (complete with panic attacks) after a pretty long course of antibiotics.
Depending on where you are coming from (sceptic, or a more "relaxed" view of unscientific proceeds), you can try several things. Over at ubiome.com you can order a microbiome test and see what strains you are missing or deficient, and then go and take exactly those strains. They might be hard or impossible to come by, but this might be the more targeted approach.
What I did was just throwing lots of different (valid!) bacterial strains in, and see what comes of it (ubiome wasn't available back then, and regular lab tests are quite expensive). Kefir did the most for me, and it has different L.bacillus strains and some yeasts in it (http://ntur.lib.ntu.edu.tw/bitstream/246246/177589/1/04.pdf). Kefir is reported to kill off or starve strains that don't belong in its ecosystem, but it's quite possible that this is not true or that there is point beyond which the L.bacilli will die off and the unbeneficial strains take over. Smell and look are reportedly good indicators for that, but I didn't find any studies for that. One would have to send it into a lab to make sure.
What I did was just throwing lots of different (valid!) bacterial strains in, and see what comes of it (ubiome wasn't available back then, and regular lab tests are quite expensive). Kefir did the most for me, and it has different L.bacillus strains and some yeasts in it (http://ntur.lib.ntu.edu.tw/bitstream/246246/177589/1/04.pdf). Kefir is reported to kill off or starve strains that don't belong in its ecosystem, but it's quite possible that this is not true or that there is point beyond which the L.bacilli will die off and the unbeneficial strains take over. Smell and look are reportedly good indicators for that, but I didn't find any studies for that. One would have to send it into a lab to make sure.
Random naturalistic option: After quitting smoking I found drinking cocoa with hot water (not milk) helped me to calm down and concentrate.
Obviously if you're flipping out properly it's not gonna help, but it does appear to have a surprising effect for the tamer challenges in life. I hadn't expected or heard of any such effects, but consistently felt so much more relaxed and focused after drinking it, which piqued my interest enough to look it up. There does appear to be some nebulous positive medical review of its effects in areas like blood pressure.
Obviously if you're flipping out properly it's not gonna help, but it does appear to have a surprising effect for the tamer challenges in life. I hadn't expected or heard of any such effects, but consistently felt so much more relaxed and focused after drinking it, which piqued my interest enough to look it up. There does appear to be some nebulous positive medical review of its effects in areas like blood pressure.
As long as I can remember, I've always had intense social anxiety, but never generalized anxiety. In other words, interacting with people I don't know very well gives me intense anxiety, but that's about the only thing that does. I have no problem with public speaking, and I don't get anxiety when I'm by myself. Well, maybe a little bit, but not like the guy in the article. My main problem is that I obsess and overanalyze everything. For instance, I stood in the grocery aisle for half an hour trying to figure out which of two products was the better one. I ended up accessing research articles through my university's proxy service and reading them on my phone while I stood there.
I started Nardil after a very weird/disturbing relationship left me in a depressed state for many months. I had never been depressed before that. But it eliminated the depression almost instantly, and greatly diminished my social anxiety. Although I'm thinking of stopping it soon because the side effects are pretty bad. I didn't notice them at first, but they've crept up and are very noticeable now. Hopefully when I stop it my ability to handle social interactions will remain now that I've had some practice with it.
I started Nardil after a very weird/disturbing relationship left me in a depressed state for many months. I had never been depressed before that. But it eliminated the depression almost instantly, and greatly diminished my social anxiety. Although I'm thinking of stopping it soon because the side effects are pretty bad. I didn't notice them at first, but they've crept up and are very noticeable now. Hopefully when I stop it my ability to handle social interactions will remain now that I've had some practice with it.
how I manage panic attacks and public speaking:
public speaking: i pretend everyone in the audience is just 2 or 3 people, and that they are friends of mine. going into it isnt easy but once I get started that helps quite a bit. I teach a class so there is no avoiding public speaking, but I dont find that its much of a problem despite my dislike for it.
for panic attacks, they are really something separate from the anxiety of speaking to a lot of people. so far the only thing that I have as a weapon is to try and thwart them before they start or ride out the storm by distraction - 2048 helps, it really does! after 4 years of no panic attacks I thought they were conquered, but I did have an episode, so its ongoing but managed I guess.
depression: I was depressed for a long time. I was able to put an end to it by putting dark thoughts out of my mind, concentrating on good things, and not talking myself into thinking how bad things were. I consider it safely conquered. it sounds like a platitude "dont think negative things and you will get better" but its not. at first it is hard but then one day you will wake up and everything has changed.
History: I get panic attacks every (so far) only on even years and so far (only between the months of may-august). i dont know why... I can have close calls outside of those time restraints but the full blown the world is ending panic attacks have only happened during those time frames. I really dont have an ability to stop them once they trigger from happening, they can happen at 4am or 3pm at work. distraction and not thinking about them seems to help the most.
depression: I was depressed from 1998 to 2012. from 2010-2012 it was managed, but now I'm like a different person. I have never taken any medication for anything above.
for panic attacks, they are really something separate from the anxiety of speaking to a lot of people. so far the only thing that I have as a weapon is to try and thwart them before they start or ride out the storm by distraction - 2048 helps, it really does! after 4 years of no panic attacks I thought they were conquered, but I did have an episode, so its ongoing but managed I guess.
depression: I was depressed for a long time. I was able to put an end to it by putting dark thoughts out of my mind, concentrating on good things, and not talking myself into thinking how bad things were. I consider it safely conquered. it sounds like a platitude "dont think negative things and you will get better" but its not. at first it is hard but then one day you will wake up and everything has changed.
History: I get panic attacks every (so far) only on even years and so far (only between the months of may-august). i dont know why... I can have close calls outside of those time restraints but the full blown the world is ending panic attacks have only happened during those time frames. I really dont have an ability to stop them once they trigger from happening, they can happen at 4am or 3pm at work. distraction and not thinking about them seems to help the most.
depression: I was depressed from 1998 to 2012. from 2010-2012 it was managed, but now I'm like a different person. I have never taken any medication for anything above.
I guess this is a good place to mention this in case anyone experiences the same thing. I naturally have terrible anxiety, but for a while I was having even more horrible anxiety attacks. I eventually figured out that taking probiotics made it happen. If you're using probiotics it might be worth a try stopping for a month and seeing what happens.
I'd be curious if the author had every tried psychodynamic therapy, which has a different approach from CBT.
This article is great. I have fought with social anxiety for 5 years as a result of family complications and high school drama. I have been doing talk therapy for 6 months with very positive affects on my previously negative outlook on life.
I've always viewed it as a disease, but this article portrays anxiety in a new light. Maybe my ability to view the world this way enables self creativity that I never knew existed... That thought is exciting.
Thanks for sharing!
I've always viewed it as a disease, but this article portrays anxiety in a new light. Maybe my ability to view the world this way enables self creativity that I never knew existed... That thought is exciting.
Thanks for sharing!
> Stoic philosophy, and audiotapes I ordered off a late-night TV infomercial.
Would a stoic be happy or sad that stoic philosophy didn't work for him?
Would a stoic be happy or sad that stoic philosophy didn't work for him?
A stoic does not judge reality like that. He acknowledges that it did not work and moves on. He need not ponder about the fact that it did not work because it cannot be changed and no thinking should be done without a purpose.
Stoic philosophy sounds something like mindfulness or meditation [0], except for the part about "no thinking should be done without a purpose."
[0] http://amzn.com/0385303122
[0] http://amzn.com/0385303122
He would be happy because he's thankful he isn't dead yet.
I think he would believe he is not far along enough in his stoic practice for it to have "worked", but happy with the progress he has made so far.
Given the milieu which gave rise to stoic philosophy, I suspect the latter.
[deleted]
If you feel intense anxiety prior to public speaking, you should directly address your issues with public speaking, rather than resorting to self-medication.
Guys please stop looking for the reason why you are using drugs. They are just awesome thats why. Nowadays we could be honest saying that.
When anything awesome comes to our life we forget about stomach aches, spine aches or mental aches and feel the drive. But drugs and medicines have not awesome side-effects. I could be very nervous on weed and stimulators and after psychedelics (we are not talking about opiates usually its one-way road).
The medical fact that you could be born predisposed to be nervous or could became that after the shock. So its your body nature.
And there is only two ways: 1. Be where is awesome and do something awesome. You need it more then others. 2. Radically change your metabolism, reject yourself and became a Z-Zombie.
Or the grave, but you can't avoid it, so it can wait, finally there will be no nerves to be nervous anyway.
And you shouldn't dramatize what's going on. Panic attack its just several bad hours and you are not physically damaged after that. I have a couple of them per week, and one a day in bad times, but you're not dying, event not physically disabled, just misbalance moment in your nervous system. Ok just as planned 56 hours per week for a sleep, 3 for a toiled, 25 for internet hangout, 10 for a meal and 5 for the panic attacks, everything just as planned. When you are resting well, eating enough you'll reduce this time. So there is even a good news)
When you have a hard panic attacks with adrenaline outburst (you know, you are "really dying", but before you should run to the toilet like sprinter) that's a bright moments, and you have couple bright days after them, just because its not happening with you now. Everyone wants a bright life, right? You've got a little for free, some kind of death and resurrection cycle)
Brotherhood of anxious guys and girls are just a part of big picture, there is a epilepsy, head traumas and other ns diseases and we are not holding even the bronze medal.
Want another good thing? Hypochondria, i really killing my physician with it. How dare you to say that i have no cancer! Lets check again! Two MRI per week is too much? Not too much for the such ill person, im sure that bastard is hiding somewhere between spine and lungs. My heart is ok?! I'll go to the other physician! You said something about spot on pancreas? Oh, that spot will kill me in a year for sure. (why did they asked me how long i didn't fart?). But my real hope is a inborn cyst "without diagnostic meaning" it's a real black horse, when i feel the headache i know that there is no brain left, only cyst with a liquid and alchohol inside, ready to explode.
Hypochondria helps us to visit physician in a time, discover early problems and prevent them, so, statistically, we are more bulletproof that guys which seen a doctor once a life and suddenly dying from the stroke just before 50 anniversary.
But there was a real killing thing in my life. One day i haven't sleep because i was anxious, guy from my work said something wrong (or i thought that he thought something wrong, i don't remember clearly). Then i feel strange smell, i sniffed and decided that there is a fire in my flat. So i raised a panic of the highest probe and evacuated my family. There was a real fire downstairs and all flat became filled with acrid fumes after 5 minutes.
So my anxiety save me and my family, and we are in very good relations after this accident.
When anything awesome comes to our life we forget about stomach aches, spine aches or mental aches and feel the drive. But drugs and medicines have not awesome side-effects. I could be very nervous on weed and stimulators and after psychedelics (we are not talking about opiates usually its one-way road).
The medical fact that you could be born predisposed to be nervous or could became that after the shock. So its your body nature.
And there is only two ways: 1. Be where is awesome and do something awesome. You need it more then others. 2. Radically change your metabolism, reject yourself and became a Z-Zombie.
Or the grave, but you can't avoid it, so it can wait, finally there will be no nerves to be nervous anyway.
And you shouldn't dramatize what's going on. Panic attack its just several bad hours and you are not physically damaged after that. I have a couple of them per week, and one a day in bad times, but you're not dying, event not physically disabled, just misbalance moment in your nervous system. Ok just as planned 56 hours per week for a sleep, 3 for a toiled, 25 for internet hangout, 10 for a meal and 5 for the panic attacks, everything just as planned. When you are resting well, eating enough you'll reduce this time. So there is even a good news)
When you have a hard panic attacks with adrenaline outburst (you know, you are "really dying", but before you should run to the toilet like sprinter) that's a bright moments, and you have couple bright days after them, just because its not happening with you now. Everyone wants a bright life, right? You've got a little for free, some kind of death and resurrection cycle)
Brotherhood of anxious guys and girls are just a part of big picture, there is a epilepsy, head traumas and other ns diseases and we are not holding even the bronze medal.
Want another good thing? Hypochondria, i really killing my physician with it. How dare you to say that i have no cancer! Lets check again! Two MRI per week is too much? Not too much for the such ill person, im sure that bastard is hiding somewhere between spine and lungs. My heart is ok?! I'll go to the other physician! You said something about spot on pancreas? Oh, that spot will kill me in a year for sure. (why did they asked me how long i didn't fart?). But my real hope is a inborn cyst "without diagnostic meaning" it's a real black horse, when i feel the headache i know that there is no brain left, only cyst with a liquid and alchohol inside, ready to explode.
Hypochondria helps us to visit physician in a time, discover early problems and prevent them, so, statistically, we are more bulletproof that guys which seen a doctor once a life and suddenly dying from the stroke just before 50 anniversary.
But there was a real killing thing in my life. One day i haven't sleep because i was anxious, guy from my work said something wrong (or i thought that he thought something wrong, i don't remember clearly). Then i feel strange smell, i sniffed and decided that there is a fire in my flat. So i raised a panic of the highest probe and evacuated my family. There was a real fire downstairs and all flat became filled with acrid fumes after 5 minutes.
So my anxiety save me and my family, and we are in very good relations after this accident.
I've always had lots of anxiety, and I was once in a psychiatric hospital for 2 weeks several years ago. I stopped taking meds though a while ago. I figure anxiety is just part of my life, and it's not worth fighting.
I am curious to hear a little more. In many senses, worry/anxiety is endemic to humans. 'What will I eat/drink to survive?' at the most basic level if you look at how we as creatures have come about. Since these needs are largely fulfilled in modern society these questions get much more idiosyncratic; that is, they are suited uniquely to our individual situations so it's hard to proceed without knowing a little more about what drives some of your feelings of anxiety.
Have you done CBT?
Learn to meditate. It can cure anxiety.
Source: personal experience.
Source: personal experience.
Anxiety and the meditative state are, to put it simply, impossible to experience at the same time. Who is it that is anxious, when that anxious person no longer exists?
In my experience meditation effectively reduces panic, but I'm still aware of panic. It's like holding a hot coal.
The hot coal is in your throat, not in your hand. Do you try to swallow it, or try to spit it up?
Swallow. "try to spit" sounds like trying escape, and I think it would intensify the anxiety. But spitting does involve letting go. Hmmm maybe I'll try it. Now what would make me anxious.
I second this. Mindfulness meditation is really easy to pick up and has worked a treat for me.
My first panic attack happened about two weeks after 9/11 on the F train. Top 3 most terrifying moments of my life.
I did CBT, talk therapy, all kinds of anti-depressant medications (the worst being Effexor XR, that shit should be illegal) until finding klonopin to be the most effective. Marijuana was helpful too, though it had its moments of making things worse, but for the most part A+++ rating, would smoke again.
My anxiety manifested itself in some pretty severe panic attacks, extreme hypochondria and some pretty intense derealization. I miss the derealization though, but it took awhile for me to appreciate it instead of fearing it. The hypochondria I don't miss at all. The panic attacks still happen from time to time (mostly when the lights in the room suddenly change) but I'm so used to them now they don't really phase me. And I'm so practiced at having them, nobody standing around me is ever aware that I'm having a sudden bout of tachycardia and growing concerns that my heart is about to explode in my chest.
I noticed the klonopin was making me kind of a zombie, putting a mega-kabosh on the creative output, so I decided to taper my way to freedom. The first two weeks without it were pretty painful, but now it's relatively smooth sailing.
I'm not sure what happened that I got to this point now. I did move to a foreign country (Vietnam) so I'm sure the slower pace has had something to do with it, despite how much I've grown to dislike living here.
As for what caused it, all of my therapists think I have PTSD from my high school days (I was in a pretty violent anti-racist skinhead group back in the day), but I personally think it has to do with all the MDMA I chewed in the post-skinhead rave days. I guess I'll never know.