Show HN: Learn Chinese Through Novels(getchicory.com)
getchicory.com
Show HN: Learn Chinese Through Novels
https://www.getchicory.com
24 comments
对，鲁迅的文章不适合初学者。推荐一篇散文：《背影》，作者朱自清。这是文章链接： http://www.ccview.net/htm/xiandai/zzq/zzqsw003.htm
Kinda works with http://popjisyo.com
:
http://www.popjisyo.com/WebHint/AddHint.aspx?d=8&e=GB2312&r=...
是的。酷。
I had a similar problem. While in China, I bought some Chinese books for kids that had pinyin. Even then, the Chinese is filled with colloquialisms or archaic language. Stuff that is the equivalent of "once upon a time" was very hard for me to understand. There is probably a big market now for books with Chinese and English that will help ease foreigners into the language.
Honestly you've got to get a tutor if you want to learn a language with any sort of speed, preferably a native speaker. With a native speaker you could shred through those books fairly quickly.
I've been studying Arabic since April and have native instructors, and at this point I can easily pick up a children's book and read it. I can make out most of the news as well.
I've been studying Arabic since April and have native instructors, and at this point I can easily pick up a children's book and read it. I can make out most of the news as well.
> With a native speaker you could shred through those books fairly quickly.
I'm not sure this applies equally to Chinese, as it's not a phonetic language. Extensive speaking/listening practice isn't totally transferrable to reading tasks. There are many things I can hear for which I might not recognise the characters (because I seldom see them written) and, equally, there are characters for which I know the meaning (because I read them when shopping online, and have seen them in context a lot) but not the sound.
I'm not sure this applies equally to Chinese, as it's not a phonetic language. Extensive speaking/listening practice isn't totally transferrable to reading tasks. There are many things I can hear for which I might not recognise the characters (because I seldom see them written) and, equally, there are characters for which I know the meaning (because I read them when shopping online, and have seen them in context a lot) but not the sound.
I agree in principle- I was in an intensive Chinese program in Beijing, and I read the children's books with tutors. This was not like "See Spot Run" type of stuff. In regular class, you mostly learn everyday language, which only helps to scratch the surface of literature with a lot of background cultural context that is assumed of native speakers.
Yeah, I'm in an intensive program as well. 6 hours a day M-F all Arabic, sometimes a 1-1 session with a teacher. Normal classes it's 5-1.
For people with intermediate proficiency in Chinese, I want to point out that Project Syndicate (http://www.project-syndicate.org/), a website which is basically a bunch of Op-eds from a host of famous individuals, has its articles translated into Chinese.
For example:
English: http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/ruble-collapse-c...
Chinese: http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/ruble-collapse-c...
Not a bad way to pick up extra vocabulary, if you read them side-by-side!
For example:
English: http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/ruble-collapse-c...
Chinese: http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/ruble-collapse-c...
Not a bad way to pick up extra vocabulary, if you read them side-by-side!
If anyone is looking for a similar tool that works with any Chinese content you like, and is performant even for long texts, you might be interested in my Chinese Text Analyser: http://www.chinesetextanalyser.com/
It also remembers words you know and don't know and can give you an approximation of how well you'll know a given piece of text before you start reading it (once it has a fair idea of your vocabulary).
Currently Windows only, but it runs under Wine on Linux and an OSX version will be ready soon.
It also remembers words you know and don't know and can give you an approximation of how well you'll know a given piece of text before you start reading it (once it has a fair idea of your vocabulary).
Currently Windows only, but it runs under Wine on Linux and an OSX version will be ready soon.
This looks like a great tool. I have two questions:
1. Can it translate characters to pinyin? I can speak more Mandarin than I can read, so being able to see phonetics would be really useful to me.
2. Do you know of any online stores that sell DRM-free Mandarin ebooks that could be used with your tool?
1. Can it translate characters to pinyin? I can speak more Mandarin than I can read, so being able to see phonetics would be really useful to me.
2. Do you know of any online stores that sell DRM-free Mandarin ebooks that could be used with your tool?
1) No, and partly on purpose. It's impossible to get 100% accuracy with automatic character->pinyin converters, and is very easy to get incorrect values even for common words and I believe this is a danger for new learners and so for the moment have not implemented this. At some point I hope to start creating curated content with the tool and that will be able to provide the full, correct pinyin.
In the meantime, it does have the ability to show pinyin definitions for individual words (rather than bulk conversion), and it can export tab-separated lists of all unknown/looked up words, including with pinyin, definition, sentences containing the word (with or without cloze deletion) and more, which can then be imported in a flashcard program such as Pleco or Anki.
2) I'm not sure off the top of my head of any Mandarin ebook stores, but this thread on Chinese-Forums has a few suggestions (some of which may now be out of date so check towards the end for more recent sources):
http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/34090-best-so...
In the meantime, it does have the ability to show pinyin definitions for individual words (rather than bulk conversion), and it can export tab-separated lists of all unknown/looked up words, including with pinyin, definition, sentences containing the word (with or without cloze deletion) and more, which can then be imported in a flashcard program such as Pleco or Anki.
2) I'm not sure off the top of my head of any Mandarin ebook stores, but this thread on Chinese-Forums has a few suggestions (some of which may now be out of date so check towards the end for more recent sources):
http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/34090-best-so...
Cool, thanks for creating this tool!
I've done my own manual version of this kind of service to learn Chinese. Would definitely pay for something like this!
The biggest problem for me is the availability of Chinese audio books (specifically, non-abridged versions - anyone have recommended sources?) When your reading level is high enough to read novels, the English translation is no longer that important - if I could just get the Chinese audio and text I would be really happy. It looks like this is targeted at beginners. Not sure how helpful it will be for them, but I see a lot of potential for more intermediate/advanced learners. There's always that gap in language learning between text books and real texts that has to be overcome. I think this kind of service could be great for that.
Right now I'm reading Tian Long Ba Bu (天龍八部), and have gone through the first 200 pages like this (simultaneous reading/listening), and it's been really helpful.
Also, a feature request: give an option to display the text in Traditional or Simplified Chinese. There are browser extension to use this, but it'd me more convenient to not have to use it on every page.
The biggest problem for me is the availability of Chinese audio books (specifically, non-abridged versions - anyone have recommended sources?) When your reading level is high enough to read novels, the English translation is no longer that important - if I could just get the Chinese audio and text I would be really happy. It looks like this is targeted at beginners. Not sure how helpful it will be for them, but I see a lot of potential for more intermediate/advanced learners. There's always that gap in language learning between text books and real texts that has to be overcome. I think this kind of service could be great for that.
Right now I'm reading Tian Long Ba Bu (天龍八部), and have gone through the first 200 pages like this (simultaneous reading/listening), and it's been really helpful.
Also, a feature request: give an option to display the text in Traditional or Simplified Chinese. There are browser extension to use this, but it'd me more convenient to not have to use it on every page.
Only a few people in the HN crowd would be interested, but I imagine that Chinese translations of the Bible are a perfect match for this. Everything's already marked down into chapters and verses for easy organization, and the text is in the public domain too for older translations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Union_Version
There appear to be some freely available online recordings of the public domain text as well. https://librivox.org/author/1097?primary_key=1097&search_cat...
There appear to be some freely available online recordings of the public domain text as well. https://librivox.org/author/1097?primary_key=1097&search_cat...
Ha, I think the novels from 金庸 (Jin Yong) are better choice than 鲁迅 (Lu Xun). The problem of the novels from 鲁迅 is that the words are kind of ancient. Modern Chinese no longer say that way.
Also I think the novels from 金庸 should have some decent English translation?
天龙八部最经典的一个版本，我前段时间又重新看了一篇，送给你： http://www.youku.com/show_page/id_zcbfb7d48962411de83b1.html
Chinese is not only about written language. Actually there are two grammar system, written and spoken language. One can learn how to read through novels but not how to speak.
I'll just leave this here: http://www.pinyin.info/readings/texts/moser.html (Why Chinese is so damn hard)
象形文字的构词法和拼音文字是不一样的，不能想当然哦。汉字的构词法一般有六种，称为“六书”，即指事、象形、形声、会意、转注、假借。有兴趣进一步了解，可以看这里：http://baike.baidu.com/subview/633/5734721.htm
20世纪早期“白话文运动”之后，中国的口语和书面语逐步趋于统一。以前确实是分离的，但也不是绝对分离（有很多古代通俗小说是用白话文或“半文半白”文写的）。那个书写体系叫做“文言文”，如果不经过一定的训练，一般人看不懂。目前，中国的口语和书面语是统一的，没有本质上的区别。所以，能看懂哈利波特的中国人，你能说他说不了英语吗？
I'm really interested in learning chinese, and the interface here is fantastic, well done. But a project like this really lives and dies on the quality of the content, I think - it needs a good set of interesting novels to really get people engaged, and I don't think "The True Story of Ah Q" quite cuts it. Having some popular novels would be amazing. If the framework allows that to be done easily, I'm sure it'll just be a matter of time.
Nice work!
Nice work!
I agree with other commenters, this is genius idea but all depends on the available content. Looking at the story, it's not interesting to me, so it'll not keep me occupied and willing to learn.
I'm searching for something like this but frankly there's nothing as far as I know. The best so far is Chinese Breeze series - example book
http://www.amazon.com/Whom-Chinese-Breeze-300-word-Level/dp/...
with stories a little, little better than usual. They, though, require that you know at least ~100 basic hanzis to be able to comfortably read. I have 3 or 4 books, I don't remember, and they are fine (just please, a little better story!) Each is around 20-40 pages so not much but kindle versions are also really cheap.
The way I worked with it, was to convert mobi to html and put on local server. That way I could use Zhongwen (mentioned by alexgolive) plugin to help me with words I didn't know.
If anyone knows something similar, please share! I love to read Hanzi, it's super fun when all the spiders :) suddenly start making sense
I'm searching for something like this but frankly there's nothing as far as I know. The best so far is Chinese Breeze series - example book
http://www.amazon.com/Whom-Chinese-Breeze-300-word-Level/dp/...
with stories a little, little better than usual. They, though, require that you know at least ~100 basic hanzis to be able to comfortably read. I have 3 or 4 books, I don't remember, and they are fine (just please, a little better story!) Each is around 20-40 pages so not much but kindle versions are also really cheap.
The way I worked with it, was to convert mobi to html and put on local server. That way I could use Zhongwen (mentioned by alexgolive) plugin to help me with words I didn't know.
If anyone knows something similar, please share! I love to read Hanzi, it's super fun when all the spiders :) suddenly start making sense
About a month ago I posted about a great science fiction book that was recently translated from Mandarin to English (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8607914). It would be amazing if this tool could incorporate content like "The Three-Body Problem." I realize that international publishing rights is a complex subject to tackle, which is probably why "the True Story of Ah Q" was chosen for this initial release (it's in the public domain, or at least it looks like the english version is: https://www.marxists.org/archive/lu-xun/1921/12/ah-q/). However, as many others have commented, this great tool will probably not be used much without great content.
I've been using Pleco with the text reader plugin on my mobile with great success. You can load any text file and read and bookmark like a regular book reading app. You can tap on any word to see the meaning and pronunciation, and add an unknown word to a flashcard deck.
With regard to content, I think the Hacker News crowd would most appreciate the San Ti (三体) trilogy (Three Body Problem trilogy). It's the first highly successful Chinese hard SciFi, and every self respecting Chinese nerd has read it. It's a fascinating story, and has a lot of Chinese culture and history mixed in as well.
With regard to content, I think the Hacker News crowd would most appreciate the San Ti (三体) trilogy (Three Body Problem trilogy). It's the first highly successful Chinese hard SciFi, and every self respecting Chinese nerd has read it. It's a fascinating story, and has a lot of Chinese culture and history mixed in as well.
Worth mentioning that Popup Chinese has an extensive archive of short stories, with full contextualized (i.e. not dictionary) definitions and accompanying audio recordings:
http://popupchinese.com/lessons/short-stories
Selections cover a range of material including classical texts like Dream of the Red Chamber, as well as more contemporary and foreign fiction in translation. Materials can be access without signing up, but creating a free account enables click-to-add vocab lists, SRS study tools, and more.
http://popupchinese.com/lessons/short-stories
Selections cover a range of material including classical texts like Dream of the Red Chamber, as well as more contemporary and foreign fiction in translation. Materials can be access without signing up, but creating a free account enables click-to-add vocab lists, SRS study tools, and more.
The novel used in the sample is a very bad choice. The author has his special style, hopelessly outdated.
Chinese novels are not easy for beginners, my suggestion is to go with novels that're translated into Chinese from English, like Sherlock Holmes. The translator uses good Chinese, and the stories are familiar, therefore you will have an easy time understanding the texts. After all, it's the language you are interested.
To be able to appreciate Chinese novels like a native, especially classic ones, you'll need years of study, starting from Chinese history, classic literature, ...
Chinese novels are not easy for beginners, my suggestion is to go with novels that're translated into Chinese from English, like Sherlock Holmes. The translator uses good Chinese, and the stories are familiar, therefore you will have an easy time understanding the texts. After all, it's the language you are interested.
To be able to appreciate Chinese novels like a native, especially classic ones, you'll need years of study, starting from Chinese history, classic literature, ...
> my suggestion is to go with novels that're translated into Chinese from English, like Sherlock Holmes. The translator uses good Chinese, and the stories are familiar, therefore you will have an easy time understanding the texts
Really? This seems counterintuitive unless China has a really, really good translation industry. In my experience with Japanese translations, you're as likely to get a good translation as you are to get a horrible one (see Harry Potter).
Really? This seems counterintuitive unless China has a really, really good translation industry. In my experience with Japanese translations, you're as likely to get a good translation as you are to get a horrible one (see Harry Potter).
This is amazing, although it looks too advanced without at least intermediate proficiency in Chinese. Would love a few different difficulty levels.
Does anyone know a Spanish learning tool similar to this?
Does anyone know a Spanish learning tool similar to this?
Ha! Coincidentally, I was watching a great TED talk the other day on learning the building blocks of Chinese letters! The talk is short but great and inspired me to look into the language: http://www.ted.com/talks/shaolan_learn_to_read_chinese_with_...
Here is the link for the website: http://chineasy.org
Here is the link for the website: http://chineasy.org
Nice app.
I would also suggest http://lingq.com, it is similar but with a huge amount of content for every level. It has text for something like 10 languages, chinese included.
Other similar sites (but not so much content like lingq.com): http://readlang.com/ http://lingocracy.com/
Other similar sites (but not so much content like lingq.com): http://readlang.com/ http://lingocracy.com/
Super interesting. I'd love to learn Chinese and be able to do this one day: http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/10/22/mark-zuckerber...
Though, I'm not sure reading novels like the website suggests is the right approach when starting from nothing.
Though, I'm not sure reading novels like the website suggests is the right approach when starting from nothing.
Given that "Zuckerberg Speaks Mandarin Like a Seven-Year-Old"[0], that's not aiming very high.
0: http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/10/22/mark-zuckerberg-speaks-m...
0: http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/10/22/mark-zuckerberg-speaks-m...
It would be more accurate to say he speaks like a seven year old foreigner. His tones are all wrong. I think the Chinese audience is enthralled that he is attempting to speak to them in Mandarin and are humoring him- I doubt they understand what he is saying too well. That said, good for him for learning Chinese.
"Ah Q"? It's by Lu Xun, you know what? Even native Chinese high school students fear writings by Lu Xun, mostly due to the difficulty level.
Just curious, but why is the symbol for this a Japanese katakana チ (chi)? I assume it goes with "chicory," but it's Japanese...
This is a really great concept. I hope you'll be adding a whole range of other books in the future for learners of all level.
Seems to be like: http://www.lingq.com/
看起来不错。有一个小问题：favicon不是一个正式的汉字，只是一个偏旁部首。
I don't know what the creators' intentions were regarding the favicon. It is, however, the katakana "chi" (チ), which corresponds to the name "Chicory". Seems bizarre, but that's the connection I saw.
Katakata, like zhuyin, is "hanzi/kanji written small", just as hiragana is "hanzi written quickly". I see hanzi/kanji, katakana, and zhuyin (but not hiragana) as all part of the same "alphabet" used to build up hanzi recursively. Many katakana are components of hanzi.
Maybe, but this is rather like using a Cyrillic letter in a Spanish-teaching website. "What language are you teaching anyways?"
Is there anything like this for Japanese? Just Googled but didn't find anything interesting.
Check out http://lingq.com , it has a lot of chinese, japanese and 10 or so more languages
Nice work! I'm thinking about buying the novel but I would like to be able to use Paypal.
Come on, where is the option to choose traditional chinese? :P
I think you need a Chinese friend. Haha...
I installed the "Zhongwen Chinese Popup Dictionary" extension for Chrome. It kind of works -- as you hover over characters it shows the definition. But I don't have any good content! I can't find any good beginner level Chinese stories online!