Ask HN: Delayed sleep phase disorder and career
2 comments
Wow, never thought I would run into another person that had this condition. While I do not have it, at one of my last full time positions I lead a team with a woman who had this same issue, and she had brought in a medical note as proof etc. She wound up on my team because I was good at dealing with people that have differing needs and getting the most out of them. I really didn't care about her schedule and if she needed to work 1p till the evening, and the company was saying they didn't mind, but in the end what her and I both found is they really did. Once I left the company she was forced out as they changed her schedule to 9-1700 and her productivity dropped and so they let her go.
Financial services is likely a bad industry for you to try to work in as they typically value bureaucracy and a fairly strict schedule over most things. Not saying they are bad, it just seems to me they are stuck to a concept of time that can be tough for someone who has your condition to fit in, hell it is hard for some devs just to work in them because of it.
I don't see an easy solution for you, as what I learned researching the condition before is that you cannot control this, your body is making chemicals and releasing hormones that are forcing your hand and doing it in a way that is different than most of us. From reading too I learned that stress actually increases the issue for anyone suffering from this too. So my suggestion is to find a place where you can work a more flexible schedule otherwise you will get a reputation potentially as being a low producer.
Just one other point, you likely are seeing some more issues because frankly the younger generations have a bad rap about not being the "dedicated" worker, or being lazy. I don't see it that way, but you can find statements all over the place to that affect and older managers will sometimes have bias that way, it is just they way it is. Again, financial services is probably one of the worst for some of that BS.
Also, your comment about living like a proper adult, screw that. If you are being a productive member of society, being responsible, paying your bills and producing for your employer as well as enjoying life then you are a proper adult. Find a place you can be happy, productive and successful and be humble but don't apologize for having some specific needs too.
Financial services is likely a bad industry for you to try to work in as they typically value bureaucracy and a fairly strict schedule over most things. Not saying they are bad, it just seems to me they are stuck to a concept of time that can be tough for someone who has your condition to fit in, hell it is hard for some devs just to work in them because of it.
I don't see an easy solution for you, as what I learned researching the condition before is that you cannot control this, your body is making chemicals and releasing hormones that are forcing your hand and doing it in a way that is different than most of us. From reading too I learned that stress actually increases the issue for anyone suffering from this too. So my suggestion is to find a place where you can work a more flexible schedule otherwise you will get a reputation potentially as being a low producer.
Just one other point, you likely are seeing some more issues because frankly the younger generations have a bad rap about not being the "dedicated" worker, or being lazy. I don't see it that way, but you can find statements all over the place to that affect and older managers will sometimes have bias that way, it is just they way it is. Again, financial services is probably one of the worst for some of that BS.
Also, your comment about living like a proper adult, screw that. If you are being a productive member of society, being responsible, paying your bills and producing for your employer as well as enjoying life then you are a proper adult. Find a place you can be happy, productive and successful and be humble but don't apologize for having some specific needs too.
Skipping meetings is not the way to do well at work, no matter how unproductive you are in the morning. It's the way to get fired. If you care about your job, stop doing anything except lying in bed in the dark at 10PM, take some sleep pills (drowsy allergy pills are available over the counter, but doctors can prescribe better), and actually try to go to sleep instead of staying up until 2AM.
Everyone has to make compromises for their job and yes, 99% of us hate coming in early in the morning, especially on Monday. It isn't strange. If you can't handle that you should find a job that doesn't have morning meetings, not do bad at your job. People who skip meetings hurt their coworkers performance as well because everyone has to put up with you not knowing the latest decisions and what is going on.
If you can't handle it, you could do night shift retail at a gas station, for example, or be a contractor and always schedule with your clients later in the day, etc. but you really can't work in a large corporation.
Everyone has to make compromises for their job and yes, 99% of us hate coming in early in the morning, especially on Monday. It isn't strange. If you can't handle that you should find a job that doesn't have morning meetings, not do bad at your job. People who skip meetings hurt their coworkers performance as well because everyone has to put up with you not knowing the latest decisions and what is going on.
If you can't handle it, you could do night shift retail at a gas station, for example, or be a contractor and always schedule with your clients later in the day, etc. but you really can't work in a large corporation.
While I totally agree with your point that missing meetings is a quick and frankly valid reason to get fired, his situation can't be resolved by pills if he truly has this diagnosis. From having learned about it because a past employee suffered from it, there are actually chemical/hormone differences in their bodies that cause it, and not something they can control totally; but they are not totally helpless either. From what I learned consistent sun exposure even helps some people.
That doesn't mean they don't have any control, just that depending on the severity of their phase difference they may not be able to do a 9-1700 job like you said, so contracting or finding a more flexible employer or industry is the better route.
That doesn't mean they don't have any control, just that depending on the severity of their phase difference they may not be able to do a 9-1700 job like you said, so contracting or finding a more flexible employer or industry is the better route.
after another oversleep in this month I need to ask somebody who experienced/is experiencing this trouble. I got delayed sleep phase disorder (like probably few people here) - it started when I was early teen. My first job was at start-up with flexible working hours and I used to be last person in in the office working till night. It works fine until after more than 1.5 year I decided to left and joined to financial corporation. I thought that strict working hours and all this business sheath can teach my how to live as proper adult. I had been dressing suit, but problems with going to sleep before 2am and leaving bed earlier than 10am (which was the time I had to show up). After my probationary period talked to my manager I'm unable to work 9-17. In my current job again I got so called "flexible working hours", but skipping morning stand-ups isn't well seen, in most cases I'm in 5 minutes before. Moreover, last days are stressed - deadlines etc. so manager decided to have early morning meetings. Again, every day I got two fights with myself which I frequently lose: I just cannot feel asleep before 2am, - it's the time when I want to make things, I'm creative and code. In the morning I have tu run for a bus without breakfast nor coffee. Not to say that I am not productive at all before noon. I don't want to act unprofessional, but the best things I do happens in night and social norms about work and rest time do not fit for my at all. It's also hard to talk about, because for people who don't experience it seem like laziness or weak will in best case. What is your advice if I really want to be professional and got successful job, but I don't fit in the "standards". I know that breaking my rhythm is not a solution, because even if I'm up at 7 (very rare though) I'm not productive till lunch-time.